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Author Topic: Black managers  (Read 8074 times)

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Wild Rover

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #30 on September 30, 2014, 02:39:34 pm by Wild Rover »
So, 25% are NON WHITE, that's to say Black, Brown, Yellow. The majority I assume are indeed BLACK. Although there are some "Arab" ( Brown ) players around, and the odd Japanese/Korean or similar origin. Lets say 20% Black.

192 Pro licence holders, 14 Black. (15%)

92 League clubs, 5 Black mangers (was ) tad over 5%

If 20% of clubs had Black Managers, that would be 19.

DO THEY APPLY for the posts, or are they waiting for a call.



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IDM

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #31 on September 30, 2014, 02:57:49 pm by IDM »
Ability should be the first call, not race, gender, sexuality, nationality, whatever.

Ability should be paramount DESPITE any of the above differences. We have to be careful though that it is not judged in favour of them BECAUSE of it.

BB.

Again, just to clarify (because facts have a habit of getting obscured on emotive topics like this) no-one is suggesting that weak black coaches should be given jobs over strong white coaches. No-one.

The point is that there is a wealth of evidence that, given equal credentials, black people don't even get shortlisted as often as white people, across a range of different jobs. Rooney's Rule is all about making sure that art least one black candidate gets a hearing. Nothing more, nothing less.

In simple terms, if you are white, you ALREADY have an unfair advantage. This is trying to redress the balance.

Or a perception of that, BST..

What may be a more revealing stat is what proportion of the totality of non-white applicants actually get called for interview, and compare that to the pre-interview rejections of white candidates.

If the rejections are proportionally similar, then logic says it isn't a race issue.  If proportionally more non-whites don't even get called for interview than the white applicants, then that is much more worrying IMHO.

silent majority

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #32 on September 30, 2014, 04:16:57 pm by silent majority »
So, 25% are NON WHITE, that's to say Black, Brown, Yellow. The majority I assume are indeed BLACK. Although there are some "Arab" ( Brown ) players around, and the odd Japanese/Korean or similar origin. Lets say 20% Black.

192 Pro licence holders, 14 Black. (15%)

92 League clubs, 5 Black mangers (was ) tad over 5%

If 20% of clubs had Black Managers, that would be 19.

DO THEY APPLY for the posts, or are they waiting for a call.

WR,

192 Pro licence holders and 92 league clubs. Whatever the maths at least 50% would be unemployed anyway.

So, taking the 14 with pro licences, removing the unemployed would mean 7 should be in employment. We had 5, which is significantly higher than the figure most are using.

Filo

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #33 on September 30, 2014, 04:29:05 pm by Filo »
So, 25% are NON WHITE, that's to say Black, Brown, Yellow. The majority I assume are indeed BLACK. Although there are some "Arab" ( Brown ) players around, and the odd Japanese/Korean or similar origin. Lets say 20% Black.

192 Pro licence holders, 14 Black. (15%)

92 League clubs, 5 Black mangers (was ) tad over 5%

If 20% of clubs had Black Managers, that would be 19.

DO THEY APPLY for the posts, or are they waiting for a call.

WR,

192 Pro licence holders and 92 league clubs. Whatever the maths at least 50% would be unemployed anyway.

So, taking the 14 with pro licences, removing the unemployed would mean 7 should be in employment. We had 5, which is significantly higher than the figure most are using.

So it appears the figures tell us the amount of black managers, is actually more or less proportionate to the number of pro licence holders, and Ince is spouting b*llocks as usual

Wild Rover

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #34 on September 30, 2014, 04:37:43 pm by Wild Rover »
Thank feck for that.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #35 on September 30, 2014, 05:24:01 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
No Filo

The numbers te us that even in an exceptional year, there was still a smaller percentage of black managers than black badge holders. And this year, 2.2% of PL/FL managers are black compared to 7.3% of badge holders.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 06:15:03 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

Sheepskin Stu

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #36 on September 30, 2014, 06:14:59 pm by Sheepskin Stu »
Black badge holders? Can they park on double yellow lines?

Wellred

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #37 on September 30, 2014, 06:41:45 pm by Wellred »
Black badge holders? Can they park on double yellow lines?

No only on black ones.  ;)

Iberian Red

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #38 on September 30, 2014, 10:57:55 pm by Iberian Red »
1. But those countries don't have lots of home grown white football players over the last 30 years.
If you accept that most good managers are ex-professional footballers then surely the number of managers should reflect the number of players of any particular colour?  you state 'More availability of 'non black' - but that is the point, because of the number of black footballers we have we should expect to see more black managers and coaches - if not, why not?  Personally I think the issue is more deep rooted than just management - to be a good manager you need to serve your time as a coach - and we don't have enough black coaches.
2. International football is dominated by the rich European leagues (expect for a couple south american teams - but even thier best players soon come to Europe), the best managers are perceived to come from the bigger clubs (more experience etc) and these are white dominated.

Ok then. IF 25% of footballers are of "Black" roots, you say 25%( of the 25% ) so 1/16 ( 6 in number )of managers pro rata should be the same.
That always assumes that for any vacant post 25% of applicants are black.

I wonder in the past, when a managerial vacancy has arisen at DRFC, how many applicants were black, or come to think of it, how many applicants at any club , for any managerial post were black/Brown/Yellow.

How can you say "International football" in places like Nigeria, BF, Senegal, etc are dominated by European leagues. That is not correct at all. Of course the best players will inevitably end up in Europe, as the pay is infinitely greater, but it still does not answer as to why there are no ( or few ) Black coaches or managers in predominantly black countries.

You've ruined my nights entertainment, I was going to watch Mind Your Language followed by Till Death Us Do Part, but don't feel the necessity now.

LincsRover

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #39 on September 30, 2014, 11:06:48 pm by LincsRover »
1. But those countries don't have lots of home grown white football players over the last 30 years.
If you accept that most good managers are ex-professional footballers then surely the number of managers should reflect the number of players of any particular colour?  you state 'More availability of 'non black' - but that is the point, because of the number of black footballers we have we should expect to see more black managers and coaches - if not, why not?  Personally I think the issue is more deep rooted than just management - to be a good manager you need to serve your time as a coach - and we don't have enough black coaches.
2. International football is dominated by the rich European leagues (expect for a couple south american teams - but even thier best players soon come to Europe), the best managers are perceived to come from the bigger clubs (more experience etc) and these are white dominated.

Ok then. IF 25% of footballers are of "Black" roots, you say 25%( of the 25% ) so 1/16 ( 6 in number )of managers pro rata should be the same.
That always assumes that for any vacant post 25% of applicants are black.

I wonder in the past, when a managerial vacancy has arisen at DRFC, how many applicants were black, or come to think of it, how many applicants at any club , for any managerial post were black/Brown/Yellow.

How can you say "International football" in places like Nigeria, BF, Senegal, etc are dominated by European leagues. That is not correct at all. Of course the best players will inevitably end up in Europe, as the pay is infinitely greater, but it still does not answer as to why there are no ( or few ) Black coaches or managers in predominantly black countries.

You've ruined my nights entertainment, I was going to watch Mind Your Language followed by Till Death Us Do Part, but don't feel the necessity now.

Don't forget 'love thy neighbour'!!

Seriously though, there almost certainly is a racism issue in football, all the talented black players around and so few black coaches - something definitely needs to be done about it. But Paul Ince getting on the bandwagon makes my blood boil - face it guvnor.....you're just a sh*t manager and whether you're black or white or yellow or chuffing green, you're just not up to it! Nothing at all to do with racism - You're not a manager now cos you're crap at it!

 :boxing:
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 11:11:09 pm by LincsRover »

Viking Don

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #40 on October 01, 2014, 11:34:15 pm by Viking Don »
Unfortunately there is a racist issue throughout the whole of society, not just football. Personally I'm sick of having to apologise for the antics of our ancestors but until racism is an historical term to describe primitive man then I'm afraid I'm going to have to go on apologising and try and make things even for everyone. It used to be called positive discrimination and it's got to be done until race is not an issue.

hoolahoop

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #41 on October 02, 2014, 07:31:32 am by hoolahoop »
Just to confuse things more . I wonder what % of ENGLISH managers run our top teams given the prevalence of foreign managers in the game ?
This is not to deflect from the question that the OP raises and I personally agree that whichever way you play with the percentages ; there are definitely NOT enough black managers on the game.
Some can make as many false stats as they like but your eyes can never deceive you.

RedRover45

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #42 on October 02, 2014, 09:25:19 am by RedRover45 »
Just to confuse things more . I wonder what % of ENGLISH managers run our top teams given the prevalence of foreign managers in the game ?
This is not to deflect from the question that the OP raises and I personally agree that whichever way you play with the percentages ; there are definitely NOT enough black managers on the game.
Some can make as many false stats as they like but your eyes can never deceive you.
Black managers ON the game ? That's linking to an even more spurious claim.... 😉

hoolahoop

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Re: Black managers
« Reply #43 on October 02, 2014, 09:30:10 am by hoolahoop »
Just to confuse things more . I wonder what % of ENGLISH managers run our top teams given the prevalence of foreign managers in the game ?
This is not to deflect from the question that the OP raises and I personally agree that whichever way you play with the percentages ; there are definitely NOT enough black managers on the game.
Some can make as many false stats as they like but your eyes can never deceive you.
Black managers ON the game ? That's linking to an even more spurious claim.... 😉

Well spotted Redrover 45.....looks better that way doesn't it ?  ;)

 

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