tied Hands

[Branton Rover]

We are aware of at least should be that PD is trying to square a very difficult circle. On the one hand he's trying to keep his employers happy by running an exceptionally tight ship financially whilst on the other hand trying to win football matches in a tough league that contains a lot of experienced old head pros.

Somebody once said you'll win nothing with kids which is why the clubs current strategy of trying to promote local talent will inevitably falter as there's simply not the required numbers or indeed the required quality of players coming through our academy. This can hardly be Paul's fault he's been dealt a very poor hand indeed, firstly he was promised the earth by JR not once but twice and that buggered two close seasons.

basically we are caught between a rock & a hard place we don't have now on the board a cheerleader like JR who would often let his heart rule his head, we have a board of pragmatists who see the bottom line more than the league table, and until we can discover let's call it a third way between striving for promotion - Remember 'Destination Chsmpionship' & sustainability we are set for a season in the Doldrums.

Even Destination a Championship was just a strapline as SOD used to call it! in reality it had nothing behind it, no planning or strategy of how we were going to achieve it.

however bad we think we are Barnsley are suffering a similar season with Danny Wilson who is vastly experienced seemingly at a loss as to how to change things round. If we can get a full side out with 2 good strikers like Main & Tyson we should be ok

[Sheepskin Stu]

When I saw the thread title, I thought it was another one of your fantasies!

[Wellred]

Sums it up well Branton.

[the vicar]

We are doomed we are all doomed the end of the world is nigh

[timdrfc]

Arnt most clubs in this division?

[Chris Black come back]

We are aware of at least should be that PD is trying to square a very difficult circle. On the one hand he's trying to keep his employers happy by running an exceptionally tight ship financially whilst on the other hand trying to win football matches in a tough league that contains a lot of experienced old head pros.

Somebody once said you'll win nothing with kids which is why the clubs current strategy of trying to promote local talent will inevitably falter as there's simply not the required numbers or indeed the required quality of players coming through our academy. This can hardly be Paul's fault he's been dealt a very poor hand indeed, firstly he was promised the earth by JR not once but twice and that buggered two close seasons.

basically we are caught between a rock & a hard place we don't have now on the board a cheerleader like JR who would often let his heart rule his head, we have a board of pragmatists who see the bottom line more than the league table, and until we can discover let's call it a third way between striving for promotion - Remember 'Destination Chsmpionship' & sustainability we are set for a season in the Doldrums.

Even Destination a Championship was just a strapline as SOD used to call it! in reality it had nothing behind it, no planning or strategy of how we were going to achieve it.

however bad we think we are Barnsley are suffering a similar season with Danny Wilson who is vastly experienced seemingly at a loss as to how to change things round. If we can get a full side out with 2 good strikers like Main & Tyson we should be ok

A fair enough summary Branton.

Let's not all forgot though that Dick and Terry do indeed care about the bottom line, not least as even in a good year they are ploughing in hundreds of thousands of their own money to keep the whole show on the road. They decide to stop funding that, then we really are in the mire. Doncaster Rovers is a consistent loss making venture.

This talk of Dick and Terry 'loosening the purse strings' means one of two things: either they fork out hundreds of thousands extra from their own pockets, or they load the debt on to the club - if they can find some bank stupid enough to lend to us.

The immediate issue is that despite all the 'pragmatism' demonstrated by Dick and Terry, the current manager has a decent budget this year, one of the very largest in this league, and we have turned in more dire and desperate performances this season than we have good performances. The level of consistency under Dickov is abysmal. This cannot be blamed on our owners. It is beyond frustrating.

[bobjimwilly]

The immediate issue is that despite all the 'pragmatism' demonstrated by Dick and Terry, the current manager has a decent budget this year, one of the very largest in this league, and we have turned in more dire and desperate performances this season than we have good performances. The level of consistency under Dickov is abysmal. This cannot be blamed on our owners. It is beyond frustrating.

Hard to argue with that

[Wellred]

So many people keep trotting out "We have one of the best budgets in this league".
How do we know this exactly?
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is true. Perhaps someone ITK can show me where there are any signs of us having this super budget.

[Donnyrovers]

So many people keep trotting out "We have one of the best budgets in this league".
How do we know this exactly?
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is true. Perhaps someone ITK can show me where there are any signs of us having this super budget.

Didn't silent majority say its a budget that should be pushing top 8 minimum?

[bobjimwilly]

So many people keep trotting out "We have one of the best budgets in this league".
How do we know this exactly?
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is true. Perhaps someone ITK can show me where there are any signs of us having this super budget.

until we see evidence to suggest to the contrary, you have to go on what TB / DW / GB said at the Meet the Owners night.

[Wellred]

So many people keep trotting out "We have one of the best budgets in this league".
How do we know this exactly?
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is true. Perhaps someone ITK can show me where there are any signs of us having this super budget.

Didn't silent majority say its a budget that should be pushing top 8 minimum?

Oh so it must be right then 

[Wellred]

So many people keep trotting out "We have one of the best budgets in this league".
How do we know this exactly?
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is true. Perhaps someone ITK can show me where there are any signs of us having this super budget.

until we see evidence to suggest to the contrary, you have to go on what TB / DW / GB said at the Meet the Owners night.

Didn't they also say we would be pushing for promotion?

[bpoolrover]

The budget can't be brilliant with having so many youth teamers on the bench

[bedale rover]

The budget can't be brilliant with having so many youth teamers on the bench

I would imagine that the likes of copps wellens etc are on more than the majority of league one players
It doesn't take long to eat up the budget
when  the youth team costs (I think) £500,000 per year it is easy to burn through what ever the budget is

[silent majority]

So many people keep trotting out "We have one of the best budgets in this league".
How do we know this exactly?
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is true. Perhaps someone ITK can show me where there are any signs of us having this super budget.

Didn't silent majority say its a budget that should be pushing top 8 minimum?

Oh so it must be right then 

Dissing me again Wellred? There's a surprise.

[Iberian Red]

When I saw the thread title, I thought it was another one of your fantasies!

Is the answer legs akimbo?

[Wellred]

So many people keep trotting out "We have one of the best budgets in this league".
How do we know this exactly?
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is true. Perhaps someone ITK can show me where there are any signs of us having this super budget.

Didn't silent majority say its a budget that should be pushing top 8 minimum?

Oh so it must be right then 

Dissing me again Wellred? There's a surprise.

Don't be so precious. I have been getting it for years.
So where is the proof of this top 8 budget then as it certainly doesn't appear to be the case.
No signings that we have paid money for!
A subs bench full of kids!

[IDM]

Perhaps the budget as a whole goes on wages?  Now, having seen some (but not enough) encouraging performances this season, we know the playing squad with this manager is capable of putting in decent performances on the pitch and winning games.

The concern for me is the inconsistency.  We can compete, but we don't compete consistently.

[Jenny]

Did he have his hands tied last January? Erm, no! People need to stop trotting out excuses and admit he is a poor manager.

[IDM]

Jenny, I for one would be more worried if there was no sign of any competitive and effective performances and we were failing week in week out.  We haven't reached that stage yet.

As for PD, I'm 50/50 on this - I wouldn't be surprised if he were to be replaced but wouldn't expect a knee jerk reaction from the board.  If he was going to go, it should have been in May. 

[The Red Baron]

Perhaps the budget as a whole goes on wages?  Now, having seen some (but not enough) encouraging performances this season, we know the playing squad with this manager is capable of putting in decent performances on the pitch and winning games.

The concern for me is the inconsistency.  We can compete, but we don't compete consistently.

I'm conscious that I've only seen four games this season, but three of them have been as bad in performance terms as anything I've seen since we were in the Conference.

[silent majority]

So many people keep trotting out "We have one of the best budgets in this league".
How do we know this exactly?
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is true. Perhaps someone ITK can show me where there are any signs of us having this super budget.

Didn't silent majority say its a budget that should be pushing top 8 minimum?

Oh so it must be right then 

Dissing me again Wellred? There's a surprise.

Don't be so precious. I have been getting it for years.
So where is the proof of this top 8 budget then as it certainly doesn't appear to be the case.
No signings that we have paid money for!
A subs bench full of kids!

l

Don't avoid the point Wellred, I asked you a question.

[bpoolrover]

You say were his hands tied in January the simple answer is he should not have had to wait till then,the players like meite and tamas had not played for months and we signed Bly sharp who showed little interest,also apart from billy would any of the other teams apart from Yeovil maybe have been excited about signing them players? Yes they were big names for us but not for the rest of that leauge,the other thing is if we have paid big wages for a 34year old who has not played for months we have been robbed,saying that he did quite good still

[silent majority]

Are you saying we should have signed players when the transfer window was shut? How does that work?

[Wild Rover]

SM

Were Tamas and meite not unattached, so could have joined , Sharp a loan, so could have come earlier.

[The Red Baron]

Meite and Tamas were free agents, but had played abroad so could not move until the transfer window. Meite was training with us for some time, but we couldn't sign him until the window opened.

Sharp was with Reading before Christmas and was out injured for some time, so I doubt he was available any earlier than we signed him.

[Filo]

SM

Were Tamas and meite not unattached, so could have joined , Sharp a loan, so could have come earlier.

Meite was unattached but was n't allowed to join until the transfer widow, because he had  already played for two other clubs prior to the window, or something like that

[IDM]

Perhaps the budget as a whole goes on wages?  Now, having seen some (but not enough) encouraging performances this season, we know the playing squad with this manager is capable of putting in decent performances on the pitch and winning games.

The concern for me is the inconsistency.  We can compete, but we don't compete consistently.

I'm conscious that I've only seen four games this season, but three of them have been as bad in performance terms as anything I've seen since we were in the Conference.

Games I have seen and my opinions:

Port Vale.  We were a bit disjointed and taken apart by a side playing fluently as a team who are now in poor form.  A few dodgy decisions ie their 3rd goal and the Forrester non-penalty and sending off influenced the score, perhaps not the result.  Who knows what would have happened subsequently had Forrester stayed on the park.

Preston.  Very resilient and went behind only to a wonder strike, and made a supposedly strong side look average.  Excellent second half with a deserved equaliser.

Oldham.  Second best, but only just.  As with Port Vale not as good as a team, despite almost the same 11 as had beaten Watford so well a few days before.  Again, suffered with dodgy ref decision for their penalty.

Crawley.  Average, coming off some poor results a clean sheet was a must but getting that against a team that came to defend a 0-0 was no great achievement.   Unlucky not to win ugly that night with their keeper making a few great saves late in the game.

Chesterfield.  Excellent for 60 mins or so, against a good team in good form and scoring goals.  Entertaining attacking play but needed the goals as Chesterfield looked dangerous.  Could have finished 4-4 with no complaints.  Showed our defence is the weak point at present IMHO.

Fulham.  Blown away in the first half hour by an ex-premier league team showing their higher level of skill and pace etc.  Came back into the game and dominated the second half, again playing excellent football.  Class finish from Copps, and on another day the 'keeper guesses wrongly for the penalty despite the relatively tame effort.

So, plenty of signs for encouragement despite some below par stuff, but of course a couple of very poor away performances at Bristol and Walsall with more or less the same players. 

This is why I go on about inconsistency.  Not bad enough yet to sack PD IMHO, but plenty of room for improvement week in week out, starting at Scunthorpe please!

[Wild Rover]

Ah. Ok thanks for clearing that up TRB and Filo.

[The Red Baron]

IDM. I think you're too kind about the Port Vale and Oldham performances. Both were shockingly bad, IMO. One may be put down to "a bad day at the office." Two suggests a pattern- and one I saw continued at Walsall last Saturday.