Baldwin and Dickov

[scaley back rover]

Martin dosnt want power and I believe that is an unfair comment tbh. All he wants like all of us is the best for the club like all of us and spends alot of his own time trying to do just that. Maybe some people should realise that.

Maybe instead of all this infighting people should try and work together , and talk things through like adults. We are a small club with a split fan base and all this aggro (i.e f**k the vsc/slo and anyone else) is doing no one any good at all . Can we not try and move things forward together.

P.s before any says it .I only pro DRFC meaning anything that is good for the club and the fans is no matter where its from Or whatever group I am for it

[StocktonRover]

I only ever see one side of this and many other discussions setting out to divide the fan base and actively trying to discredit the VSC in the process(or more accurately individual members of it) - its sad, so sad.

[swintonrover]

MOH managed to alienate John Ryan

That's quite possibly the most ludicrous post since Carling left. Well done.

[Sad-Rovers]

Is it? Why don't we ask Martin?

Martin, what does John think of you? And try and tell the truth.

[StocktonRover]

Is it? Why don't we ask Martin?

Martin, what does John think of you? And try and tell the truth.

Sad, I for one don't give a flying f**k what JR thinks about anything or anyone.
He was a hero, but over the past year or so, in my view he's been exposed as devious and disingenuous.

As an aside - what's prompted you to jump back on this board and create a shit storm again?

[Rovers Return]

I cant stand Martin but in his post he does make his sources well known.  One is Gavin Baldwin and the other the ex CEO of Barnsley and Scunny. 

Now the fact they are ex says a lot and Gavin is not going to tell you anything he doesnt want the world to know and he sure as hell aint gonna say Oh hell I have screwed up.  MOH managed to alienate John Ryan and he darent come out against GB because then he will have lost what he wants.  Power!!!!!

It's quite clear you certainly don't know Martin at all!

[Sad-Rovers]

Tip for you Stockton. If you don't care, keep quiet. I'm responding to Swinton's query.

[StocktonRover]

Tip for you Stockton. If you don't care, keep quiet. I'm responding to Swinton's query.

Sad, you come across as a really arrogant person who seems to have no current use for this forum other than to disrupt it and attack individuals.

I just don't get it - why?
On reflection don't answer that, we can all come to our own conclusions.

[Sad-Rovers]

Make your mind up son.

[StocktonRover]

Make your mind up son.

Add patronising to that.

[donnygav93]

I forget that seeing the obvious isn't one of your strengths.

Do you ever have any facts and figures, preferably ones that are publicly verifiable, to back up your claims?

Don't often comment but read a lot on here and I've come to the conclusion that you are one ignorant and rude, ignorant human being .

I totally agree the a**hole called me Del Boy earlier

[Sad-Rovers]

I'm sure there's a rule against abuse on here. Seems to have been suspended tonight.

[coventryrover]

I'm sure there's a rule against abuse on here. Seems to have been suspended tonight.

And there must be a rule on here about posters shit stirring and having vendettas

[Sad-Rovers]

It seems that anyone who asks questions and dislikes the VSC is a trouble maker.

[coventryrover]

No...You just pop up after a long while of not posting and then start the anti/pro vsc.  I.e.

Is it? Why don't we ask Martin?

Martin, what does John think of you? And try and tell the truth.

Why don't you keep it off here and keep it in the playground.

[Iberian Red]

Is it? Why don't we ask Martin?

Martin, what does John think of you? And try and tell the truth.

Your obsession with SM is verging on homoerotic. 
Maybe you should seek help. We all know what happened to Sweepyface.

[Sad-Rovers]

I'm more like the woman who put the cat in the bin.

[The Red Baron]

In a bid to bring the thread vaguely back on topic, I found these couple of tweets from Mr Goodwin interesting:

Paul Goodwin @paulgoodwinDFP  23h 
I still tend to think #drfc won't panic. Current position is disappointing but PD's brief this season is to steady the ship - nothing more.
View details · 

Paul Goodwin @paulgoodwinDFP  23h 
If the board push the boat out a bit for loan deal(s) and #drfc are in the bottom four at Christmas, then that's a different matter...
View details 

Kind of goes against what was said publicly at the end of last season and at the start of this one. Now it might be a journo putting two and two together and making five, but it would explain why he isn't challenging the club over the "pushing for promotion" statement (i.e. because he's been told "off the record" what the policy actually is.)

[bpoolrover]

I'm sure he has red last week he said something like its a long term project,which really means this season were crap and hope to do better next year

[Boomstick]

In a bid to bring the thread vaguely back on topic, I found these couple of tweets from Mr Goodwin interesting:

Paul Goodwin @paulgoodwinDFP  23h 
I still tend to think #drfc won't panic. Current position is disappointing but PD's brief this season is to steady the ship - nothing more.
View details · 

Paul Goodwin @paulgoodwinDFP  23h 
If the board push the boat out a bit for loan deal(s) and #drfc are in the bottom four at Christmas, then that's a different matter...
View details 

Kind of goes against what was said publicly at the end of last season and at the start of this one. Now it might be a journo putting two and two together and making five, but it would explain why he isn't challenging the club over the "pushing for promotion" statement (i.e. because he's been told "off the record" what the policy actually is.)

So the current board have lied? doesn't surprise me

[IDM]

In a bid to bring the thread vaguely back on topic, I found these couple of tweets from Mr Goodwin interesting:

Paul Goodwin @paulgoodwinDFP  23h 
I still tend to think #drfc won't panic. Current position is disappointing but PD's brief this season is to steady the ship - nothing more.
View details · 

Paul Goodwin @paulgoodwinDFP  23h 
If the board push the boat out a bit for loan deal(s) and #drfc are in the bottom four at Christmas, then that's a different matter...
View details 

Kind of goes against what was said publicly at the end of last season and at the start of this one. Now it might be a journo putting two and two together and making five, but it would explain why he isn't challenging the club over the "pushing for promotion" statement (i.e. because he's been told "off the record" what the policy actually is.)

So the current board have lied? doesn't surprise me

Alternatively, what is being said now is a realistic reflection of where we are in the league table after a quarter of the season.

It doesn't matter what the board/club may have said at the start of the season about budgets/promotion etc if the results on the pitch haven't yet backed that up. 

It does not mean they have lied - you're just looking for that angle to stir things up, again!

[The Red Baron]

I'm not saying that they've lied, just that it appears that their expectations have changed.

Personally I don't think it reflects too well on the local media. I realise they are told things in confidence and want to retain contacts within the club, but there is an important question to be asked here. What's changed?

There may be perfectly good reasons why the club doesn't think promotion is achievable this season but it would be helpful if we all understood what those were. I'm in that camp that doesn't think a season where we stabilise and rebuild the squad would be a bad thing, but that doesn't square with what was said both at the end of last season and prior to this.

[IDM]

TRB my response was to Boomstick in the main...

[The Red Baron]

TRB my response was to Boomstick in the main...

So was mine.

[bpoolrover]

Was it not last week they again told sm that we had a very good budget

[IDM]

Was it not last week they again told sm that we had a very good budget

Maybe we have a very good budget for this division, but that doesn't buy performances and results - perhaps this is why many fans think Dickov shouldn't be the manager because he should do better with the budget and squad he has.?

[silent majority]

I wouldn't believe everything that Paul Goodwin tweets. It's not correct to say that the club will share confidential information with him, why would they? There's nothing to be gained for the club in doing so.

As I've said before the budget is a good one, and funds are available when required. At this moment in time it doesn't look good, but have a bit of faith, it will turn round, I promise.

[Wild Rover]

Not ANOTHER takeover in the offing.

[les@donr]

Martin,

I did write a long reply yesterday to your above posting. However, it disappeared as soon as I tried to upload it. So I'll try again.

Firstly, Thanks for your detailed and respectful reply. You do answer some of my questions and concerns. However, there are some issues that are still on my mind that your considerate reply did not address, and may have further raised. I respect the fact that you as a fan is closer to the club and the CEO than most of us fans, and know things we are not privy too.

However, that advantage of being close to the Club and the CEO might be a negative in that you have to defend the Club and CEO when there has been justified criticism of both. You seem to be giving the Club and CEO too much benefit of the doubt, when there has been justified criticism.

It is good to hear that the club's commercial performance has been an excellent one. However, will this not be affected by what is happening on the pitch? Bad results equals less fans showing and less fans showing up equals less money spent at the Keepmoat, which in term will mean less revenue to invest into the club. There is a direct relationship between what happens on and off the field and the CEO as the day to day manager of the club is the person ultimately responsible for the club's financial, commercial and on field successes.

I think my biggest concern is the perceived lack of leadership at the club, in a time of crisis there has to be someone who steps forward and says that there the problems and here are the steps we are taking to address these problems. In the past it was JR who would step forward and give the club leadership, today I don't see anyone stepping forward including the CEO. On the pitch results have been poor as have performances, the buck stops with the manager. If the whole company is declining the buck stops with the CEO. It is his job to turn things around.

You say that we should judge both the manager and CEO over a season. Last season both failed in keeping Doncaster Rovers a Championship club,  shouldn't they have faced judgement over that failure?

[silent majority]

Hi Les,

You must have more patience than me, if I lose a post that I spent a long time composing I tend not to bother repeating it.

In response, let me offer you a bit of background first, that will hopefully dispel some of the myths that various individuals seem intent to promote on this particular thread. I've been involved in the supporters movement and working on behalf of supporters for about 15 years. I started with the FA and the England national team around Euro 2000 and some of the issues that we as fans had with foreign Police forces. Since then I've been involved in the FSF in this country and the FSE in Europe. My particular area of interest was helping out supporters who were in trouble with the Police and their clubs. To that end I've spent years talking to individual clubs, the FA, FL, PL ACPO, various Governments, the Home Office and Foreign Office etc etc. You get my drift.

I don't have any issues in talking to this particular club, although I am extremely keen for them to do better than other clubs because its my club too. What you will find is that I talk to lots of clubs on behalf of various supporter groups. My talking to our club can't possibly be a negative, you only have to look at the achievements that we've created at this club in the last 3 years to see how its been a positive. To suggest I'm not critical of the club is incorrect, Gavin and Shaun plus other department managers will tell you a different story, but my criticism is reserved for face to face meetings, and its then seen by the club as a positive because it helps them improve. Being critical on a public forum does no good at all, all it does is isolate that individual from the people who have the ability to make the changes you need.

That's a lesson we learnt in the FSF years ago, its alright publicly condemning the PL for instance, but if you want to get your point across the first thing you have to do is get face to face. Then you have a chance.

Your second point is valid, but in this case doesn't work like that. Yes of course its more difficult for the commercial department to do their job if the performance on the pitch is very poor. However in the last few years our club has worked miracles in that and other departments. Mostly, I think,  it was as a result of the work we did on IRWT which attracted national and international acclaim. That's the sort of thing sponsors do want to get involved with, and that's been reflected in the revenues produced. Its an indication of how well this club is doing despite results. There is a link between performances as you point out, but its not direct. IRWT was started because we couldn't influence the on the pitch performance, but we could influence off the pitch.

I'm sure that the public leadership of the club could be done much better. But are you sure there's not some other reason that's holding them back? Or maybe with David Blunt it could well be a case of finding his way. But surely, the obvious point, is that you started this thread because of GB stating what the objective was for the club this season, isn't that slightly contradictory? Not only that but would you expect the club to be public about the strategy with regard to the manager? I'm sure we've all seen where clubs have publicly backed their manager only to let them go a few days later, even JR managed to do that. So yes, to be fair it could be better, and that's something I've already raised with them. I don't want them to be like JR and offer cheap platitudes, but I do want them to follow the route of honesty and integrity which we've seen demonstrated with IRWT.

The manager and CEO have different responsibilities and objectives and can't be judged the same. The manager has a narrow remit, and that's to produce the best on field performance he can with the budget he's been given. The CEOs job is to use the budget he's been given by the board and prepare for the worst and hope for the best. His objective, the clubs objective, the owner's objective, is for a successful season. But that's objectives, not promises. 90% of all football clubs miss the objective of promotion every season! GB's job is to ensure that we perform off the field to the best of our ability, and that we don't collapse if we are relegated, so we must have done well last season to ensure that we have an above average budget this season. Do you not see that? If he had done a poor job last season then the owners would've given him a smaller budget than what he currently has.

Don't forget the club is currently developing other areas, through Sporting Club Doncaster, which will produce revenue streams that will aid DRFC. This can be, and is sometimes seen on here, as a negative. But how can having a successful RL club that provides revenues for the stadium, be a negative for DRFC?. Some of these other areas are already performing above plan and producing profits for the good of our club.

Finally, if you wish I can meet you tomorrow, introduce you to Gavin and put some of your points directly to him. He won't bite your head off! Give me a shout on pm and I'll set it up.