Malky Mackay

[southwestexile]

I heard Whelan on the radio this morning apologising for his comments, he even said that some of his best friends were Jews (or words to that effect)

Now I know that acko and friends feel that they're white male status now puts them in a threatened and persecuted minority but you must appreciate how crass a defence/apology that is from Whelan

I guess we can butt heads over your interpretation of modern life and attitudes towards race but it seems pointless as we won't be altering our personal viewpoints, and that's fine.  But please don't defend Whelan.  He's wrong, he knows it and now he's cacking himself that he'll lose more sponsorship and Wigan will sink into oblivion.

[acko]

i am sorry southwest i just dont see what mackay as done so wrong that he deserves to be persecuted in such a way,and to say whelan is not a fit and proper person to run a football club goes far too far hes put millions into wigan and ive little doubt that not just the football club but is buisness itself as employed people from all races.it just makes you wonder which way football as we no it is going it seems to me that sponsers,patrons ect are just holding clubs to ransom anything they dont agree with the its dummy out

[bfdoncaster west]

 raciast was heher befor kick it out so it be

[southwestexile]

acko - the point is that if people do hold views as expressed by Mackay and Whelan then they are out of touch with the modern world.  In a position where they affect people's lives by making decisions on employment then that is far from ideal, in a position where they have access to the media to express those views, that is also not ideal, and somewhat stupid.

However, I'm not saying that they should be hung, more that they need to change their ways, change their views and express as much in the media.

Football is close to being broken at the moment.  This helps not.

[acko]

both whelan and mackay have made public appologys,mackay is also on a racist aware course i dont know what else they can do

[Sheepskin Stu]

It's only words, and words are all they have..

[acko]

maybe we should do an isis kill all non muslims now thats what i call racisiam

[southwestexile]

you continue to polarise yourself by making such statements

why do you feel so victimised?

[acko]

i dont feel victormised  southwest i ccertainly feel mackay and whelan are being,i could argue with you for ever on this point but you have your view and i repect that i have mine weather you respect that or not is of no concern to me but i will say the support they are both getting by people in football says that people like yourself are asking too much in persecuting these two.enjoyed the chat

[southwestexile]

I'm not calling for their persecution but to hold them up in the media as having made mistakes is very useful.  If they can change their ways and become better people then get on with it.  The point is that they have responsibility as do all in public life to project opinions which are reasonable, they haven't recently and their future actions will be deservedly scrutinised.

You haven't said anything about your previous post which inferred that you supported Whelan's views

[acko]

i didnt say i agreed with whelans comments,but i dont see why anybody should take exemption to his choice to run his club,and i think the comment you refer to is the one regarding jews and money but as i said its something that as been said for years and a world famous jewish comedion makes fun of it hiself,and as far as i know the scots dont call for racist report when classed as being tight its been said for years.and remember a well loved former black rovers player made a good living making fun of hisself,and i havent read anywhere were the owner and former manager of gillingham were kicked out of football for the dealing with mcgammon and they were found guilty and ordered to pay compensation

[ravenrover]

Let's not ignore the fact, but of course we will, that Whelan comes from an age group where in the past it was common place to call people from Pakistan, Israel, China, Africa, West Indies etc by what are now deemed derogatory terms. He grew up in a time to witness the influx of ethnic society into Britan. Does it make it right in todays PC conscious society - probably not, but I defy anyone in their 70's or like me in their 60's to have used these same terms in the past when talking about different races and religions, I'll hold my hand up to say I have. Didn't someone in a book of fiction say something about casting the first stone?
Swearing is accepted now by the majority of people but in my youth if I was caught using bloody or other common place swear words it was a clip around the earhole never mind the F word or the C word and as for swearing in front of women well that was never accepted now I hear language from girls/women young children even that you wouldn't hear on the factory floor but no-one bats an eyelid.
As for our media what they say in their papers and TV programmes would probably bear no resemblance to their private thoughts and conversations they jump on the band wagon and bang the drum about sexism and racism but how many of these people and the public at large are guilty of such "heinous crimes" in private.
I think it's time people got a grip JMHO

[Bentley Bullet]

Isn't having to treat people of a different race with more political correctness than you show to people of your own race a form of racism in itself?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Isn't treating people from different cultures and races as individuals, rather than using tired and lazy stereotypes to insult them all a sign of a civilised and intelligent approach.

I've said before on here that I have had the honour of working with people from China, Syria, Palestine, Iran and Iraq. These were some of the most intelligent, caring, thoughtful and cultured people I have ever met.

I'm sure there are plenty of nasty, vindictive, greedy and ignorant bas**rds in those countries too. Which, on balance, would make their people very much like the English, Americans, Australians, Germans, French etc, etc, etc...

[Bentley Bullet]

Yes, but Isn't having to treat people of a different race with more political correctness than you show to people of your own race a form of racism in itself?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

In what way do you HAVE "to treat people of a different race with more political correctness than you show to people of your own race"?

Give us some examples? 

Do you mean being expected not to call Jews "greedy"? Or being expected not to call blacks "lazy n**gers"?

[RJHeader]

Isn't treating people from different cultures and races as individuals, rather than using tired and lazy stereotypes to insult them all a sign of a civilised and intelligent approach.

I've said before on here that I have had the honour of working with people from China, Syria, Palestine, Iran and Iraq. These were some of the most intelligent, caring, thoughtful and cultured people I have ever met.

I'm sure there are plenty of nasty, vindictive, greedy and ignorant b*****ds in those countries too. Which, on balance, would make their people very much like the English, Americans, Australians, Germans, French etc, etc, etc...

BB

In what way do you HAVE "to treat people of a different race with more political correctness than you show to people of your own race"?

Give us some examples? 

Do you mean being expected not to call Jews "greedy"? Or being expected not to call blacks "lazy niggers"?

Why have you chosen to ** the word bas*ards but not the other word in bold?!

[Wellred]

I think some people are getting a bit too precious on here. Like life in general, everybody is too busy looking after everyone else's welfare (whether they like it or not)
Politically correct? Do gooders? or interfering busy bodies. Take your pick.

[Copps is Magic]

It's not about being being too precious. It's about not accepting (and reproducing) crass stereotypes and treating people equally. I do that until I have the time or opportunity to judge them as a person.

"You can't even say darky anymore, you have to treat them as people apparently. Back when they first got off the boat in the 60s everyone called them darky"

If standing up against this type of shite makes me a do-gooder, liberal, busy-body, pansy collector then so be it.

[Wellred]

It's not about being being too precious. It's about not accepting (and reproducing) crass stereotypes and treating people equally. I do that until I have the time or opportunity to judge them as a person.

"You can't even say darky anymore, you have to treat them as people apparently. Back when they first got off the boat in the 60s everyone called them darky"

If standing up against this type of shite makes me a do-gooder, liberal, busy-body, pansy collector then so be it.

Its not that many years ago we couldn't call people of Caribbean origin "black" we had to call them "coloured". Now the term "coloured" is wrong and we have to use the word "black" 

I bet it was a white person that decided this too.

[Copps is Magic]

It's this "us" and "them" mentality that you have adopted which is your downfall. What should WE call THEM. Who are THEY? There are no official guidelines telling you to call anyone anything. Surely you judge people as you take them? Then call them a two hat if you find them that way.

The reason debates over language like this happen at the BBC, in government etc. is because they have a certain mandate to try and improve an already unequal society. Therefore, with things like affirmative action or equality laws a constant battle over language will occur. And it will be constantly shifting - as what causes offense changes. But this shouldn't affect your daily interaction with people.

[Wellred]

It is not a WE or THEM. The problem is people like you picking up on the slightest little thing that YOU consider wrong.

WE is a generalisation. It wasn't used in a racial context as I am sure most people would agree. It is only the politically correct/interfering/do gooders that pick up on things such as this.

And that is what is wrong with society today.

[southwestexile]

Wellred, please take this opportunity to leave society.

Treating people with respect, as individuals rather than collective groups is what matters

A similar thing has been highlighted in the press today where a Labour MP and front bencher tweeted a picture of a white van in front of a house with several England flags hanging up.  The tweet was interpreted as snobbish and out of touch. She's now been sacked/resigned as a result.

And that's the point - making rash comments and assumptions based on stereotype is not acceptable in public life, and increasingly not in any walk of life.  It's about decisions being made based upon intelligence and a society of equality and fairness, not the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude generated by the dead witch.  And not the us and them attitude demonstrated throughout history but now increasingly challenged by society.  Yes, those who choose to remain intellectually in the 1970s can whine and moan about the PC brigade, but sooner or later you'll realise that it's you who are out of touch and always have been wrong.

[Wellred]

Wellred, please take this opportunity to leave society.

Treating people with respect, as individuals rather than collective groups is what matters

A similar thing has been highlighted in the press today where a Labour MP and front bencher tweeted a picture of a white van in front of a house with several England flags hanging up.  The tweet was interpreted as snobbish and out of touch. She's now been sacked/resigned as a result.

And that's the point - making rash comments and assumptions based on stereotype is not acceptable in public life, and increasingly not in any walk of life.  It's about decisions being made based upon intelligence and a society of equality and fairness, not the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude generated by the dead witch.  And not the us and them attitude demonstrated throughout history but now increasingly challenged by society.  Yes, those who choose to remain intellectually in the 1970s can whine and moan about the PC brigade, but sooner or later you'll realise that it's you who are out of touch and always have been wrong.

So where exactly have I been disrespectful? Rash comments and assumptions?

Sorry but your post demonstrates my point.

I will decide for myself thanks as to what is correct and what is over the top. I certainly don't need you to do it for me.

[acko]

everybody missing the point here malky mackay made a private text to someone he trusted,nobody elses buisness,dave whelan in sticking up for aman he as employed made a statement weve all said or thought and now do gooders never done or said anything wrong want to persecute them,its these so called people what are causing racism thereselfs.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RJ

Reel your neck in and apply your brain. I didn't asterisk anything. There is a filter on here which chooses what it wants to put asterisks in. It's clearly not very politically correct.

[Bentley Bullet]

BB

In what way do you HAVE "to treat people of a different race with more political correctness than you show to people of your own race"?

Give us some examples? 

Do you mean being expected not to call Jews "greedy"? Or being expected not to call blacks "lazy n**gers"?

BST

At work the other day we were talking about Craig Charles having to leave the jungle. I said that it was a pity and that I thought he was a dark horse. Luckily when I realised what I'd said and how it could have been misconstrued had there been a member of the PC brigade there, there wasn't.

 Thinking about it, I don't recall ever meeting a member of the PC brigade in the flesh, and everyone I have spoken to about it has a similar opinion to me.

There are a few greedy buggers at work, and there are a few lazy ones too. All of them are spoke of as such, and know peoples opinions of them. It would be taboo to speak of such if they were of a different race though.

It would clearly not be very politically correct.

[Copps is Magic]

There are a few greedy buggers at work, and there are a few lazy ones too. All of them are spoke of as such, and know peoples opinions of them. It would be taboo to speak of such if they were of a different race though.

I'm afraid you might have a some sort of paranoia complex where you think liberal do-gooders are protecting black people from being called lazy. Where have you picked this up from? It certainly doesn't exist in reality.

made a statement weve all said or thought

Can safely say I've never achieved the triple crown that Mackay did whether in private or public.

And that is what is wrong with society today.

Aye, equality has always been society's biggest problem. Never mind terrorism, sexual assault, inequality, environmental destruction, it's those bloody do-gooders terrorising the streets with all their respect each other nonsense.

[Wellred]

There are a few greedy buggers at work, and there are a few lazy ones too. All of them are spoke of as such, and know peoples opinions of them. It would be taboo to speak of such if they were of a different race though.

I'm afraid you might have a some sort of paranoia complex where you think liberal do-gooders are protecting black people from being called lazy. Where have you picked this up from? It certainly doesn't exist in reality.

made a statement weve all said or thought

Can safely say I've never achieved the triple crown that Mackay did whether in private or public.

And that is what is wrong with society today.

Aye, equality has always been society's biggest problem. Never mind terrorism, sexual assault, inequality, environmental destruction, it's those bloody do-gooders terrorising the streets with all their respect each other nonsense.

How pathetic. Taking bits of paragraphs to suit your purpose. You really are struggling if that's how you respond.

To use your way of answering Never mind terrorism You approve of that then do you?

Easy to distort a point isn't it?

[southwestexile]

Well red, as ever you pick up on a general point and dismiss it because it doesn't directly apply to your post. Thereby, side stepping the issue