Calais

[IC1967]

What the hell is going on there? Our motorways in the area are gridlocked. Our lorry drivers are threatened with knives etc. Calais is not being used as much adding costs to companies having to use other routes. Holiday makers are being delayed.

Its time we got tough and told the French in no uncertain terms that they are responsible for locking up the offending economic migrants. They are not refugees. They are economic migrants. If you are a genuine refugee then you claim asylum in the first safe country you land in. That is not the UK.

[DRFCSouth]

The French are responsible on their soil, us on ours. They love to try and pass the buck. I see this getting worse, not better. Some kind of exclusion zone needs setting up and guarding.

[MR A-Z]

Oh no our poor profits.

It's massively wrong to hold HGV drivers responsible but it's inhumane talking about these PEOPLE! Not immigrants, not refugees, but people as though they are a hindrance, an insect that should be swatted away. PEOPLE escaping an existence that intolerable they are willing to risk their life. I know who's side I'm on.

I suppose you're also against foreign aid and money leaving our shores? Please share your views on how you would solve this terrible situation where lives have been lost and more probably will, whilst we sit in our ivory towers.

[IC1967]

Oh no our poor profits.

It's massively wrong to hold HGV drivers responsible but it's inhumane talking about these PEOPLE! Not immigrants, not refugees, but people as though they are a hindrance, an insect that should be swatted away. PEOPLE escaping an existence that intolerable they are willing to risk their life. I know who's side I'm on.

I suppose you're also against foreign aid and money leaving our shores? Please share your views on how you would solve this terrible situation where lives have been lost and more probably will, whilst we sit in our ivory towers.

Excuse me. You're the only one using the phrase 'these people'. You're the one talking about them as if they are a hindrance, an insect that should be swatted away.

I've already come up with the solution on another thread but I'll give you an abridged version here. We should do a leaflet drop over the countries that are supplying these economic migrants making it plain that we will sink any boats that try to reach Europe.  They probably will think we are not serious so we need to sink a few boats so they know we mean business.

Now I expect you will be horrified by my solution but you need to bear this in mind. Thousands of people are continuing to drown by making this perilous journey. My solution would mean a much lower loss of life in the medium to long term.

Right. I've answered your question. Now you answer mine. How many millions of economic migrants would you allow into our already overcrowded island?

I'll also answer your foreign aid question. Of course we shouldn't be spending money on this. It is crazy that we are borrowing money to give to other countries. This so called aid often gets wasted and creates a dependency culture in the countries that get the money. They should be made to stand on their own two feet and trade laws should be eased to give them a fair chance of prospering.

Now crack on with letting us know the answer to my question.


IC1967 (100% record still intact)

[River Don]

Oh no our poor profits.

It's massively wrong to hold HGV drivers responsible but it's inhumane talking about these PEOPLE! Not immigrants, not refugees, but people as though they are a hindrance, an insect that should be swatted away. PEOPLE escaping an existence that intolerable they are willing to risk their life. I know who's side I'm on.

I suppose you're also against foreign aid and money leaving our shores? Please share your views on how you would solve this terrible situation where lives have been lost and more probably will, whilst we sit in our ivory towers.

People escaping an existence so intolerable they are prepared to risk their lives? They are risking their lives escaping from France. Is it that intolerable in France?

[Dagenham Rover]

Oh no our poor profits.

It's massively wrong to hold HGV drivers responsible but it's inhumane talking about these PEOPLE! Not immigrants, not refugees, but people as though they are a hindrance, an insect that should be swatted away. PEOPLE escaping an existence that intolerable they are willing to risk their life. I know who's side I'm on.

I suppose you're also against foreign aid and money leaving our shores? Please share your views on how you would solve this terrible situation where lives have been lost and more probably will, whilst we sit in our ivory towers.

The issue is they have already reached a country where they will be safe,  whether it be France, Italy or wherever but they are hellbent on ignoring the first safe haven and in some case's more than one  safe  haven country they come across to get to the UK, theres an answer there somewhere 

[MR A-Z]

'I've already come up with the solution on another thread but I'll give you an abridged version here. We should do a leaflet drop over the countries that are supplying these economic migrants making it plain that we will sink any boats that try to reach Europe.  They probably will think we are not serious so we need to sink a few boats so they know we mean business.'

Our saviour, why has no one else brought up this spectacular idea of drowning many many innocent people including children? Innocent people who are fighting for a better life? A better life for their children who don't have access to education and other necessities we take for granted. Risking their life to free themselves of the turmoil they're currently in. The scroungers.

That huge pedestal of yours that allows you to play God must have a fantastic view if it allows you to dream of ending a humans life with a blink of the eye.


As much as there is wrong atm, I believe being born into what is currently called a democracy I have won the lottery. I am very lucky to have a free health service, benefits if I require them and a free education.

[bobjimwilly]

I'm damn sure this "swarm" of immigrants would work a damn lot harder than most of the people who live in my village...

[idler]

You are having a bbq in your garden. You have cooked enough food for you, your wife and two kids. A complete stranger walks into your garden and says I'd like some. You get the wife to get some extras from the fridge and start feeding him as well. He then gets on his mobile and tells a couple of mates and they come round saying that they would like some food.
The fridge is out of meat now so you send the wife to the shop and by the time she gets back another two have arrived.
Tell me hand on heart how many would you feed before you said enough is enough. They also have no house so want to stay in your spare room or a tent in your garden.
I appreciate living in a democracy but doubt that the majority of our voters would want ever increasing numbers of illegals entering our country.
I also enjoyed a free education and health service but have paid tax and national insurance since the sixties. I still pay tax even in retirement so maybe the education and health service weren't as free as some people think.
The problem needs solving in the countries they are leaving. Give them a good safe life and they will build their own country and future.
It's not easy but that is what the UN should be trying to solve. The old saying, Give a man a fish and he will eat tonight, teach him to fish and he will eat every night is a very true analogy.

[Donnywolf]

What about the millions of Sheep Horses Cows etc ?

These poor creatures get transported live to all parts of Europe to satisfy the European market. They always travel in Lorries and I imagine it is a horrible way for them to get to their "fate" more especially in hot conditions

I wonder if they too are stuck in the queues - with just an odd meal and a drink to "make their journey" more pleasant. I think the average journey time for them is 48 hours as some do Scotland to Italy and adding ANY time to that journey is an appalling thing to do

Poor innocent buggers

[drfchound]

You are having a bbq in your garden. You have cooked enough food for you, your wife and two kids. A complete stranger walks into your garden and says I'd like some. You get the wife to get some extras from the fridge and start feeding him as well. He then gets on his mobile and tells a couple of mates and they come round saying that they would like some food.
The fridge is out of meat now so you send the wife to the shop and by the time she gets back another two have arrived.
Tell me hand on heart how many would you feed before you said enough is enough. They also have no house so want to stay in your spare room or a tent in your garden.
I appreciate living in a democracy but doubt that the majority of our voters would want ever increasing numbers of illegals entering our country.
I also enjoyed a free education and health service but have paid tax and national insurance since the sixties. I still pay tax even in retirement so maybe the education and health service weren't as free as some people think.
The problem needs solving in the countries they are leaving. Give them a good safe life and they will build their own country and future.
It's not easy but that is what the UN should be trying to solve. The old saying, Give a man a fish and he will eat tonight, teach him to fish and he will eat every night is a very true analogy.

Great analagy Idler.
However I am wondering whether Mr A-Z is a WUM.
If he isn't I wonder whether he would like your suggested circumstances to take place at his home?

[IC1967]

'I've already come up with the solution on another thread but I'll give you an abridged version here. We should do a leaflet drop over the countries that are supplying these economic migrants making it plain that we will sink any boats that try to reach Europe.  They probably will think we are not serious so we need to sink a few boats so they know we mean business.'

Our saviour, why has no one else brought up this spectacular idea of drowning many many innocent people including children? Innocent people who are fighting for a better life? A better life for their children who don't have access to education and other necessities we take for granted. Risking their life to free themselves of the turmoil they're currently in. The scroungers.

That huge pedestal of yours that allows you to play God must have a fantastic view if it allows you to dream of ending a humans life with a blink of the eye.


As much as there is wrong atm, I believe being born into what is currently called a democracy I have won the lottery. I am very lucky to have a free health service, benefits if I require them and a free education.

Hold on a minute. I answered your questions, where's the answer to mine? You sound like one of these people that thinks anyone who wants to come should be let in. Totally impractical.

One very good reason is that these already poor countries will become even poorer if all their fit young people leave to come here. We already take a lot of professional young people from poor countries to fill the vacancies we can't fill ourselves due to lack of planning by government. What do you think that does to say the health services in these countries?

It costs a fortune to train a doctor and then as soon as they are ready to practice we welcome them with open arms. This is totally wrong. These doctors should be made to practise in their own countries for a minimum of 10 years before they can even think of coming here.

My solution minimises deaths and suffering. The current situation is far worse. What about all the money these people give to the traffickers? You do know that a lot of it is then taken by ISIS to fund their appalling way of life. Letting these people believe they can come here lines the pockets of terrorists. Leave things as they are and it will only be a matter of time before we suffer an appalling terrorist attack. Are you happy for us to collude in this happening.

Why on earth don't these people go to the nearest safe country to where they live? They would be culturally similar and could return to their own country when things have settled down.

You do these people no favours by encouraging them to come here. Now crack on and pull your head out of your arse and give me the answers to my questions.

IC1967 ( the offerer of practical solutions)

[IC1967]

What about the millions of Sheep Horses Cows etc ?

These poor creatures get transported live to all parts of Europe to satisfy the European market. They always travel in Lorries and I imagine it is a horrible way for them to get to their "fate" more especially in hot conditions

I wonder if they too are stuck in the queues - with just an odd meal and a drink to "make their journey" more pleasant. I think the average journey time for them is 48 hours as some do Scotland to Italy and adding ANY time to that journey is an appalling thing to do

Poor innocent buggers

Well said. As a militant vegetarian I'm with you all the way on that one. I don't recall this issue even being mentioned once on the news. Disgraceful.

IC1967 (kind to animals)

[Donnywolf]

I have e-mailed the BBC but I am not holding my breath - and even a mention will do nothing to suppress this horrible "trade" in the short or long terms I suspect (ok know)

[IDM]

I've already come up with the solution on another thread but I'll give you an abridged version here. We should do a leaflet drop over the countries that are supplying these economic migrants making it plain that we will sink any boats that try to reach Europe.  They probably will think we are not serious so we need to sink a few boats so they know we mean business.

So, you are saying we should kill some people by sinking boats, to act as a deterrent to others??

Regardless of what you THINK about your own opinions and self importance, advocating the murder of fellow human beings plain blows your argument out of the water.  Not only for this thread, but all the others you contribute to.

And you challenge others to answer your questions yet promote opinions like that - so when challenged you go all political with avoiding questions by asking questions.  Do you think we are so stupid we can't see that?

Do us all a favour Adolf, and f**k off for good like you keep promising to, and this time don't come back like a bad dose of the clap!

[IDM]

The problem needs solving in the countries they are leaving.

That is the ultimate solution, but if you ask Mad Mick how he would propose that, I am sure he would offer a "final solution"..

[IC1967]

I've already come up with the solution on another thread but I'll give you an abridged version here. We should do a leaflet drop over the countries that are supplying these economic migrants making it plain that we will sink any boats that try to reach Europe.  They probably will think we are not serious so we need to sink a few boats so they know we mean business.

So, you are saying we should kill some people by sinking boats, to act as a deterrent to others??

Regardless of what you THINK about your own opinions and self importance, advocating the murder of fellow human beings plain blows your argument out of the water.  Not only for this thread, but all the others you contribute to.

And you challenge others to answer your questions yet promote opinions like that - so when challenged you go all political with avoiding questions by asking questions.  Do you think we are so stupid we can't see that?

Do us all a favour Adolf, and f*** off for good like you keep promising to, and this time don't come back like a bad dose of the clap!

Thank you for your sanctimonious post. It's a good job you weren't an advisor to Churchill. He had many people killed so even more people wouldn't die. It's called being practical.

Think about the stupidity of your position. My solution would mean the loss of life of a few hundred people. Your solution to let things carry on as they are will mean the loss of life of many thousands. You are the one that is happy to see all these unnecessary deaths with your 'look at me aren't I a nice person' approach.

Think again. It is me that is the nice person not you.

IC1967 (not afraid to sink a few boats)

[IC1967]

The problem needs solving in the countries they are leaving.

That is the ultimate solution, but if you ask Mad Mick how he would propose that, I am sure he would offer a "final solution"..

The problem needs solving in the countries they are leaving! Is that the best you can come up with? We can't solve their problems. We can help but only a tiny bit. It will take centuries for these people to sort things out. That's if they ever do. I'm not holding my breath. When they are so backward as to believe in religion like they do there is no hope for them.

IC1967 (devout atheist)

[BillyStubbsTears]

Idler

The analogy sounds great but it doesn't stand up.

Despite the media line, these people are not coming to our country to free load. They are coming because they want opportunities. There is overwhelming evidence over many years from many countries that demonstrates that immigrants work harder than "indigenous" (whatever THAT means) people. They pay more I tax than they take out and they help drive economic growth.

A better analogy is someone turning up at your barbecue and offering to do the washing up and to clean your bog.

As for the line about why "these people" don't stop at the first country they come to, I truly despair. Millions, MILLIONS of them do. Do you think the UK is the only country that immigrants go to? We don't have a pin prick of a problem compared to other places. Lebanon is housing one Syrian refugee for every 3 Lebanese people. There are 2lion Syrian refugees in southern Turkey. There are thousands arriving in Greece and Spain and Italy. M
By contrast, on the news last night, they were shocked, SHOCKED that as many as FIFTY illegal immigrants per day might be getting through the tunnel. At that shocking, appalling rate, our population would increase by 1% by 2050.

Get some perspective and think what other countries are dealing with. And think about OUR long term responsibility for much of the refugee/immigrant problem. What you are seeing is the final unravelling of the British and French Empires of the previous 2 centuries. The settlement that have so many of YOU the unearned comfortable lifestyles that you enjoy.  What you sow, you reap.

[IC1967]

Idler

The analogy sounds great but it doesn't stand up.

Despite the media line, these people are not coming to our country to free load. They are coming because they want opportunities. There is overwhelming evidence over many years from many countries that demonstrates that immigrants work harder than "indigenous" (whatever THAT means) people. They pay more I tax than they take out and they help drive economic growth.

A better analogy is someone turning up at your barbecue and offering to do the washing up and to clean your bog.

As for the line about why "these people" don't stop at the first country they come to, I truly despair. Millions, MILLIONS of them do. Do you think the UK is the only country that immigrants go to? We don't have a pin prick of a problem compared to other places. Lebanon is housing one Syrian refugee for every 3 Lebanese people. There are 2lion Syrian refugees in southern Turkey. There are thousands arriving in Greece and Spain and Italy. M
By contrast, on the news last night, they were shocked, SHOCKED that as many as FIFTY illegal immigrants per day might be getting through the tunnel. At that shocking, appalling rate, our population would increase by 1% by 2050.

Get some perspective and think what other countries are dealing with. And think about OUR long term responsibility for much of the refugee/immigrant problem. What you are seeing is the final unravelling of the British and French Empires of the previous 2 centuries. The settlement that have so many of YOU the unearned comfortable lifestyles that you enjoy.  What you sow, you reap.

So how many millions would you let in?

Are you happy for the brightest and best to come here leaving their own countries in an even worse state?

Are you happy to fork out a lot of money (that we haven't got) to increase the Islamification of our country?

Are you happy to increase the strain on our already overburdened public services?

I could go on.

IC1967

[wilts rover]

Good luck on machine-gunning the boats from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria....

[IC1967]

Good luck on machine-gunning the boats from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria....

What are you babbling on about? The boats are predominantly coming from North Africa.

You do know that ISIS are making a mint from this trade in human misery? You do know that ISIS terrorists are on these boats?

Get your head out of your arse and harden the feck up. You 'let as many who want to come types' won't be happy until many British people are killed by these terrorists. Will you change your tune then?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-fighters-hiding-on-migrant-boats-coming-to-europe-report-says-10255887.html

IC1967 (can see the terrorist threat and is prepared to act before any Brits are killed)

[DRFCSouth]

It's a difficult one. When you see the hundreds drowning in the med, it tugs on the heartstrings as you feel a moral responsibility as a human to help. I don't think we can stand by and watch poor people die like that. At the same time it's offering the ISIS scum an avenue into Europe. It's difficult to weedle them out of the genuine cases.

[bobjimwilly]

I always wonder how immigration is seen as such a major problem that needs to be stopped, rather than solved. 99% of the USA come from migrant families. They are now the strongest super power in the world. Co-incidence?

[wilts rover]

Good luck on machine-gunning the boats from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria....

What are you babbling on about? The boats are predominantly coming from North Africa.

Maybe so - but the migrants aren't

Efforts to reduce the number of migrants in Calais – estimated to be as high as 5,000 – will also be stepped up. The Home Office has said the top five nationalities were Syrian, Eritrean, Sudanese, Iranian and Iraqi..
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/31/camerons-grip-on-calais-crisis-in-doubt-amid-pledges-of-sniffer-dogs-and-fencing

wilts rover (who provides sources for facts unlike IC1967 who just makes them up)

[IDM]

The problem needs solving in the countries they are leaving.

That is the ultimate solution, but if you ask Mad Mick how he would propose that, I am sure he would offer a "final solution"..

The problem needs solving in the countries they are leaving! Is that the best you can come up with? We can't solve their problems. We can help but only a tiny bit. It will take centuries for these people to sort things out. That's if they ever do. I'm not holding my breath. When they are so backward as to believe in religion like they do there is no hope for them.

IC1967 (devout atheist)

No, solving the problem at source is taking the strategic, long term view.

Dealing with the immediate issues such as stopping human beings drowning or being killed on the trains etc, is a different matter.  The emergency services dealing with those immediate matters should not be choosing who to save or not.

Then there is the intermediate level of what to do with the refugees/immigrants.  Whether, these are political, economical, or running for their lives, thye people need to be accepted or put somewhere, or sent home. 

[IDM]

I've already come up with the solution on another thread but I'll give you an abridged version here. We should do a leaflet drop over the countries that are supplying these economic migrants making it plain that we will sink any boats that try to reach Europe.  They probably will think we are not serious so we need to sink a few boats so they know we mean business.

So, you are saying we should kill some people by sinking boats, to act as a deterrent to others??

Regardless of what you THINK about your own opinions and self importance, advocating the murder of fellow human beings plain blows your argument out of the water.  Not only for this thread, but all the others you contribute to.

And you challenge others to answer your questions yet promote opinions like that - so when challenged you go all political with avoiding questions by asking questions.  Do you think we are so stupid we can't see that?

Do us all a favour Adolf, and f*** off for good like you keep promising to, and this time don't come back like a bad dose of the clap!

Thank you for your sanctimonious post. It's a good job you weren't an advisor to Churchill. He had many people killed so even more people wouldn't die. It's called being practical.

Think about the stupidity of your position. My solution would mean the loss of life of a few hundred people. Your solution to let things carry on as they are will mean the loss of life of many thousands. You are the one that is happy to see all these unnecessary deaths with your 'look at me aren't I a nice person' approach.

Think again. It is me that is the nice person not you.

IC1967 (not afraid to sink a few boats)

Churchill?

I assume you are talking about when we were at WAR??  And at a time when precision weaponry wasn't available, there would be non-combatants killed, and of course there was carpet bombing which these days is seen to be inexcusable.  These days in military conflicts we use precision weapons to take out military targets.  Most often this is hardware but will also include the people who are fighting as combatants, on the other side.  Occasionally innocent bystanders will get involved, but they are not deliberately targeted, not by us anyway.

And yes, I do know what I am talking about!

You are advocating killing many innocent folks on boats - as a deterrent - and now as a way to get at the supposed terrorists using these innocents as human shields?

You are advocating genocide, mass murder.  That, in my book, discredits ANY arguments you may put forward, even those that have merit,

You can "politick" all you want and twist the questions around, but you alone have suggested killing innocent people.

This is from the same person who suggested unprovoked violence against a woman, who was allegedly verbally abusing her child but without you having any knowledge of the circumstances - yes I remember that thread very well!

OK so you may only make these points on a forum just for something to do and to stimulate debate, but god help your family and friends if you are like this in reality.

So I repeat my previous sentiment, go away and good riddance!

End of argument.

[RedJ]

Why do people still bother to respond to Mick? cos he's never going to f**k off while it still happens.

[IC1967]

I've already come up with the solution on another thread but I'll give you an abridged version here. We should do a leaflet drop over the countries that are supplying these economic migrants making it plain that we will sink any boats that try to reach Europe.  They probably will think we are not serious so we need to sink a few boats so they know we mean business.

So, you are saying we should kill some people by sinking boats, to act as a deterrent to others??

Regardless of what you THINK about your own opinions and self importance, advocating the murder of fellow human beings plain blows your argument out of the water.  Not only for this thread, but all the others you contribute to.

And you challenge others to answer your questions yet promote opinions like that - so when challenged you go all political with avoiding questions by asking questions.  Do you think we are so stupid we can't see that?

Do us all a favour Adolf, and f*** off for good like you keep promising to, and this time don't come back like a bad dose of the clap!

Thank you for your sanctimonious post. It's a good job you weren't an advisor to Churchill. He had many people killed so even more people wouldn't die. It's called being practical.

Think about the stupidity of your position. My solution would mean the loss of life of a few hundred people. Your solution to let things carry on as they are will mean the loss of life of many thousands. You are the one that is happy to see all these unnecessary deaths with your 'look at me aren't I a nice person' approach.

Think again. It is me that is the nice person not you.

IC1967 (not afraid to sink a few boats)

Churchill?

I assume you are talking about when we were at WAR??  And at a time when precision weaponry wasn't available, there would be non-combatants killed, and of course there was carpet bombing which these days is seen to be inexcusable.  These days in military conflicts we use precision weapons to take out military targets.  Most often this is hardware but will also include the people who are fighting as combatants, on the other side.  Occasionally innocent bystanders will get involved, but they are not deliberately targeted, not by us anyway.

And yes, I do know what I am talking about!

You are advocating killing many innocent folks on boats - as a deterrent - and now as a way to get at the supposed terrorists using these innocents as human shields?

You are advocating genocide, mass murder.  That, in my book, discredits ANY arguments you may put forward, even those that have merit,

You can "politick" all you want and twist the questions around, but you alone have suggested killing innocent people.

This is from the same person who suggested unprovoked violence against a woman, who was allegedly verbally abusing her child but without you having any knowledge of the circumstances - yes I remember that thread very well!

OK so you may only make these points on a forum just for something to do and to stimulate debate, but god help your family and friends if you are like this in reality.

So I repeat my previous sentiment, go away and good riddance!

End of argument.

FACT - my solution means less deaths and human misery than yours does. You need to harden up a bit and stop wanting people to like you even at the high cost of thousands of deaths and terrorist attacks.

You obviously don't know your history. Churchill sent many innocent people (soldiers and civilians) to their deaths when this was avoidable. Why did he do it? Because he was a pragmatist like what I am and knew that by taking this course of action he would save many more people than the ones he condemned to death.

I'll ask this question again. How many millions are you prepared to let in? Its not a hard question. Why is it only me that answers all questions. Why won't you economic migrant sympathisers answer the most basic question?

Get on with it and come into the real world for a change.

IC1967 (never dodges a question)

[IC1967]

Why do people still bother to respond to Mick? cos he's never going to f*** off while it still happens.

You'd do better contributing to the debate instead of being a moaning minnie all the time. PM BST and ask what your point of view should be.

IC1967 (capable of forming his own opinions)