Hillsborough inquests:

[bally1950]

who are you asking

[Not Now Kato]

Law suit now opened against SYP, suing them for millions. No surprise.

You are totally correct Gaz.. Money always was behind it. ooops sorry should not say nasty things, tut tut  S     O    R    R    Y

How many millions have SYP caused to be spent propping up their lies for the past 27 years? Just asking as you seem to be worried about people receiving compensation they should have had years ago out of the public purse.

According to the Independent “Despite a half-hearted admission after publication of the Hillsborough Independent Report, we now learn South Yorkshire Police spent an estimated £19 million of tax payers’ money on defending the indefensible at the inquest,” a statement said.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Law suit now opened against SYP, suing them for millions. No surprise.

You are totally correct Gaz.. Money always was behind it. ooops sorry should not say nasty things, tut tut  S     O    R    R    Y

How many millions have SYP caused to be spent propping up their lies for the past 27 years? Just asking as you seem to be worried about people receiving compensation they should have had years ago out of the public purse.

According to the Independent “Despite a half-hearted admission after publication of the Hillsborough Independent Report, we now learn South Yorkshire Police spent an estimated £19 million of tax payers’ money on defending the indefensible at the inquest,” a statement said.

And that's just this inquest.

[bally1950]

Glyn

Perfectly true..The criminal enquirie are very much different and if anyone is charged from retired Police, they have their own legal fees to pay...just the same as any other person that may yet be implicated. The Battle may be over but the War is not yet won / lost

[Donnywolf]

Hillsboro First.

Why was it necessary to have fences all around the perimeter of that ground and other stadiums in England. Why were they still up after the previous problem with Spurs and Wolves fans.

Why was it necessary to open gate "C" at all and why not just leave the turnstiles to operate.

Well then you wise people.

I can see what you are driving at there and I have put forward my point earlier in this thread. So called Football Fans were responsible for the erection of the fencing by their appalling behaviour which you and I had to live through.

This started around 1963 or 4 for god knows whatever reason as grounds which had no segregation at that time became an ideal place to have a scrap (I don't know why but there will be Books saying it was a Tribal thing). I could go to Lincoln and get my head kicked in for wanting to watch Rovers either in the Ground or on the way there from the Railway Station or Coach Park or the return journeys

Clubs developed their own "Clans or Firms" as most of the old uns on here will know and they seemed solely interested in "meeting and greeting" their opposite numbers BUT in addition if "you" got done over at somewhere and your Coaches got smashed up "you" made damn sure to get your own back - which in turn then made "them" escalate the action when you next visited their Ground.

Without a doubt a lot of so called Football Fans could not and did not behave and it saddens me to repeat the fact that every incident every fight every clash inside Grounds especially let to erection of Fences inside Grounds

There was a massive majority of Fans who were not "fighters" in the 60's and beyond and there were a lot of innocent Football Fans who were doomed inside Hillsborough because of the bad behaviour of people for many many years before. There were so many failings that day but without the Fences there would have been many less casualties (I speculate there)

What gives me great heart and makes me smile sometimes is the way "things" seem to be much improved today - with people able and willing to wear Shirts and Scarves anywhere and everywhere. I was such a wimp when I was 18 or so and did not want to fight or get beaten up and I used to have to hide my Scarf for fear of getting a punch or a kick - and at least now people are "free" of that fear apart from a few isolated incidents - and I hope the bad old days are gone forever

[Sprotyrover]

Interesting times ahead,I won't be surprised to see SYP being merged into another force possibly West Yorkshire, once that happens who gets sued for 'Compo'
It's ripe for it to happen they have had a 4 strong senior command team now reduced to one,the Chief is discredited,his deputy the large lady from Gmp discredited as she is subject of a complaint of criminal nature herself,,another one Ingrid Lee has jumped ship 3 weeks ago taking early retirement,that leaves Ma'am Burns, the idiot Police commissioner Alan Billings is discredited for employing the large lady because she disclosed the proceedings against her to him and then he promotes her to temporary Chief,he is a complete Numb Nut,the Coronation st Script writing team could'nt even compete with this sort of senario.
To be honest it might be for the best SYP is totally discredited, you just have to look at the quality of the last 3 persons recruited onto the command team,they haven't got a cats chance in hell of  getting anybody decent to take over,and the burden of the compo pay out will fall on the govt not the rate payer of South Yorkshire.

[tommy toes]

Good post John.
Just one point. I always thought football fans battling started in the 60's until I met this very old chap in the 80's who supported the Rovers after WW1.
He said he and his mates regularly had pre arranged pitched battles with local rivals and they battered each other with clubs and pickaxe handles.
There's plenty of well documented stuff about violence in the early days of footy. Pitch invasions, Refs getting attacked, riots etc.

[The Beast]

I notice that the former Sun editor,Kelvin MacKenzie, showed his broad shoulders by taking none of the blame for the paper's despicable headline stories of the time. He apparently got duped by senior SYP officers. As a journalist/editor is it not your job to investigate information before you splash it all across your front page???
SYP are under the cosh and rightly so but after the Hilsborough disaster were the government of the time not pulling the strings of the SYP, with regards to manipulating evidence and discrediting the victims, just as they had during he miners strike. For me it is an institutional thing, the government, police and the press were all in it together but looks like SYP will be sacrificed while the press and the government of the day walkaway scot free.

[bally1950]

JT yep excellent post there John, perfect sense indeed.

Sproty, take it from me the merger has been in place about five years now, When we get the Sheffield City Region employed, things will move quicker.. The compo which is certainly to be awarded quite rightly too will be paid by SYP Insurances already in place.

The can do what the hell they want with SYP as long as they keep sending me my pension, on that just had a call from another retiree who was at Hillsboro and will not speak of it.. The pensions have arrived 0% increase this year but income tax gone up £41 pcm. Government eh

[bally1950]

I notice that the former Sun editor,Kelvin MacKenzie, showed his broad shoulders by taking none of the blame for the paper's despicable headline stories of the time. He apparently got duped by senior SYP officers. As a journalist/editor is it not your job to investigate information before you splash it all across your front page???
SYP are under the cosh and rightly so but after the Hilsborough disaster were the government of the time not puling the strings of the SYP, with regards to manipulating evidence and discrediting the victims, just as they had during he miners strike. For me it is an institutional thing, the government, police and the press were all in it together but looks like SYP will be sacrificed while the press and the government of the day walkaway scot free.

Beast, sense at last.. In autumn 1989 I was told exactly the same thing via West Mids Police. always was going to be, so no point in being silly about it. BUT two successive Governments, one Tory and one Labour REFUSED to hold a second inquest so not SYP responsible for it taking it this long to get sorted. Now many of you can assume what you like. I have the facts. But who would believe anyone employed at any time by SYP. An institution indeed. GMP. THe Met Cumbria , Merseyside, West Mids, West Mercia only to name a few have gone through the mill since April 1974. And who was responsible for merging Counties and Police, Fire and Ambulance Services, probably the same Government who held the referendum about us going into The Common Market in 1975

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bally

That merging'll be the Local Govt Act that was actually passed two years previously by the previous Govt.

And the referendum in 1975 wasn't about going into the Common Market. It was about STAYING in it. We'd been taken in two years previously by, yep, the previous Govt.

I hope you were more in the ball with your facts when you were at the stand.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BUT two successive Governments, one Tory and one Labour REFUSED to hold a second inquest so not SYP responsible for it taking it this long to get sorted.

Not responsible? They could have cut out all the time it's taken by admitting their wrongdoings to the government of the day - which they could have done at any time and it would have instigated new inquests immediately.

[Glyn_Wigley]

And who was responsible for merging Counties and Police, Fire and Ambulance Services, probably the same Government who held the referendum about us going into The Common Market in 1975

No, different governments. And the referendum in 1975 was about our continued membership of the EEC, we joined it in 1973.

[Muttley]

The Battle may be over but the War is not yet won / lost

I'd say the war is very definitely over, the "victors" are now just looking to take as many prisoners as possible and maximise the reparations.

[bally1950]

Bally

That merging'll be the Local Govt Act that was actually passed two years previously by the previous Govt.

And the referendum in 1975 wasn't about going into the Common Market. It was about STAYING in it. We'd been taken in two years previously by, yep, the previous Govt.

I hope you were more in the ball with your facts when you were at the stand.

I stand corrected. Too many bangs on head. As for the issue in the stand, anyone with any bollox would have done the same, perhaps I was just in another life at the time. No matter, he was not the first who's life I had saved, but will probably be the last.

[bally1950]

Glyn, I too bow to you and your superior knowledge.

[bally1950]

The Battle may be over but the War is not yet won / lost

I'd say the war is very definitely over, the "victors" are now just looking to take as many prisoners as possible and maximise the reparations.

That was the Inquest, it was just one of the three enquiries to take place, some retired officers on the day put just two pages in as evidence, when the investigating team came to see them, in some cases the statement somehow went to 13 pages with investigators asking some questions and demanding answers that had nothing to do with the actual disaster but aimed at , shall we say more sinister accusations and somehow the Families Ass. have got hold of the confidential information and it has gone into The LIverpool Echo. the day after the decision

[bally1950]

Anyway. I will take the advice offered yesterday, seems my card is marked but I can handle it. Up the Rovers, Not many answered my three part question though. I think I got just three responses... 27 years ago. ??? I think will be there for a little longer, even LFC have altered their collar badge regarding the 96, shame on them. I can be as petty as most...Always the Victims..What was the excuse last night then 1-0 

[Mustapha-Dump]

Bally if SYP is done away with, then who is going to permanently occupy the booths in lakeside McDonald's? Or walk the cake aisles of asda rather than the streets of Doncaster?

[RedJ]

I can do the latter more than adequately...

[bally1950]

Bally if SYP is done away with, then who is going to permanently occupy the booths in lakeside McDonald's? Or walk the cake aisles of asda rather than the streets of Doncaster?

And have tracking radios on all the time. In the Police a meal break is a concession NOT a right. I have had more meal breaks sat in a patrol car or a riot van than I want to remember thank you very much. Suppose whilst they are there in the public eye they could deter shoplifters or young idiots who have been to the Rovers and maybe would be able to deal with any matters that the public would like to, instead of a long treck to a Police Station. Or maybe they just want to speak to children and take away the fear of seeing a Police man. Hey now there is an idea. Think I will go and have a  and give your question a thought

[Mustapha-Dump]

Ok mate, back into ranks.

*Land of hope and glory starts to play on an old record player

[Sammy Chung was King]

Bally if SYP is done away with, then who is going to permanently occupy the booths in lakeside McDonald's? Or walk the cake aisles of asda rather than the streets of Doncaster?

Druggies!, They will be able to help themselves to whatever they want, once this governments finished the job.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Actually, on reflection I've removed my final paragraph above. It was unfair. The police media team were simply providing a summary of every day of the proceedings.

Aye-aye.

Looks like I might have been too easy on the SYP media campaign after all.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-36216684

[Sprotyrover]

Just what did she think they were paying her 50 k a year for?
Will be interesting to see what an IT tribunal has to say!

[Glyn_Wigley]

There's a big difference between trying to put things in the best light on SYP's behalf and committing perjury for them.

[silent majority]

I watched the Hillsborough programme tonight on BBC2 which included a lot of new footage. I must admit I shed more than the odd tear or two. Absolutely shocking to hear some of those caught up in this. Some of my friends were there on that day, but this was another level.

[bally1950]

Wekk. Still it goes on even after this Inquest.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36261252

In this day and age. Well now wait for the blame game. Mr David Sullivan says there is no damage and Man Utd should have set off earlier.

Go for it.

[BobG]

Funny how you always seem to be trying to change the subject Bally..... If you feel the need for a conversation about the psychological behaviour of Man Utd and West Ham fans - cool. But it's got sod all to do with police perjury, police corruption and police attempts to pervert the course of justice - which are the substantive subjects of this thread - based around the exemplar of events at Hillsborough and Orgreave and subsequently.

Cheers

BobG

[bally1950]

You just will not let go will you ??? My thread was to show that football fans have certainly not learned, not since Ibrox neither, nor Valley Parade.
You just keep on about corruption, you obviously have a beef about it. Perhaps if you want to go back in history before Sir Robert Peel invented the Police FORCE you may seem to find the slaughter at Piccadilly MANCHESTER strangely enough. Listen for the last time ever on me in this forum I ACCEPTED THE FINDINGS OF THE JURY. I WAS NOT HAPPY BECAUSE THE LIVERPOOL FANS WERE FOUND FAULTLESS DESPITE FOOTAGE WHEN THE GATES WERE OPENED THEY RUSHED TOWARDS THE TUNNEL. CLEAR TO SEE. BUT I ACCEPTED THE DECISION. I ALSO SAID THAT IF PEOPLE ARE GUILTY OF SUCH ALLEGATIONS THEN THEY DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED. NOT ONCE HAVE I EVER SAID ANYTHING OTHER WISE.

END OF. Go and sit at the back of a stand somewhere and let provocation, and other things in a football stadium push you further into your own little corner. IF YOU ARE A MAN LIKE ME you will not allow yourself to be pushed, On that, if the tossers who ran into the tunnel at Hillsborough crushing an already overfull enclosure then there would certainly be many less injured and as I would wish. No deaths. Unlike the previous Chairman of SWFC. after previous issue. "Bollox, nobody got killed did they"? Well now they did, those who covered it up deserve pure hell.

i