Where's Malcolm (err) Tucker...

[BillyStubbsTears]

...when you need someone to unshit the bed?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/08/jeremy-corbyn-sat-down-train-he-claimed-was-full-virgin-says

f**k me...

[wesisback]

The Tories up to much this week Billy?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Back in "La-la-la! I can't hear you" mode, Wesley?

You and these attractive older men eh? You keep making the wrong calls.

[wesisback]

I hear you Billy. Using trains frequently I can confirm they are ram packed and over priced. If anything I'd argue Corbyn's biggest lie is that the staff give excellent service which they most certainly do not.
I see you've blamed us non Labour voters for austerity in another post. No doubt when Corbyn wins the leadership race he can rely on your vote at the next election. I'd hate it to be your fault for austerity.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Several points Wesley.
1) First rule of politics: Make it about the message, not the messenger. His message about the trains is a very important one. But that's irrelevant if he is so utterly incompetent as to turn an open goal into a clusterf**k like this.

2) The whole f**king thing doesn't ring true anyway. Why didn't he book a seat weeks ago when he first decided to go to Newcastle. I assume the Leader of the Opposition didn't just chuck his coat in and decide to go up to the Toon on a whim. It comes across as a stunt. And worse, a f**king shit stunt. And this from a man who's No1 appeal is that he's supposed to be genuine. As someone said last year: This New Politics eh? It seems very much like the Old Politics, only not as competent.

3) Yes, I'll be voting Labour at the next Election. What was your point?

4) Why are you wasting your time with me? Have you run out of elected Labour MPs to troll on Twitter?

[wesisback]

Keeping a low profile with them while I get my vote obviously. Normal service will resume once I have.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'll have a word.

In fact I've got several words for you.

[wesisback]

Besides finding actual Labour supporters who aren't the PLP and who don't back Corbyn is getting increasingly harder. Luckily theres a small microculture on here.
I'll be back to call for their resignations soon enough.

[wilts rover]

Hmmm...

The source said when Virgin staff spotted Corbyn sitting in a vestibule they offered him a complimentary upgrade to first class, which he refused. The staff then upgraded a family to first class so Corbyn and his team could sit in their seats.

Other passengers sitting in corridors were also found seats during this period, as Virgin staff moved some people to booked seats which had not been occupied. ...

Mendez disputed Virgin’s account of the trip, sending the Guardian footage in which someone standing next to Corbyn says, in seeming reference to a lack of seats: “Hopefully at York some people will get off.” He also sent footage of the Labour leader walking through a packed carriage.

Mendez said that the seemingly empty seats shown on an image released by Virgin Trains, timestamped 11.10am, had bags or coats placed on them by passengers.

The filmmaker said there were a number of other passengers sitting on the floor during the initial part of the trip. “We filmed Jeremy Corbyn at 11.30am, sat at the front of the train. There were many other people sat on the floor during that journey.

Virgin’s version was contradicted by a woman who said she had also sat on the floor of the train next to Corbyn, having sent a social media photo of herself and her daughter with the Labour leader.

“He’s not lying,” she said. “When I saw him he was in coach A, right at the front. He hadn’t managed to find a seat in the whole of the train. I was sat on the floor, there was no space for me to get a seat. There were people in every space between every carriage. It was totally overcrowded. They were full of bags and full of people.”

Like Corbyn, the woman was seated about 45 minutes into the trip, after Virgin staff moved people into reserved seats that were unoccupied.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/23/jeremy-corbyn-virgin-trains-disputes-claim-over-lack-of-seats

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.

And, amazingly, "the seemingly empty seats shown on an image released by Virgin Trains, timestamped 11.10am, (which) had bags or coats placed on them by passengers" just happened to be the seats that were made available when, "the staff then upgraded a family to first class so Corbyn and his team could sit in their seats."

What a co-incidence, eh?

Mind, then there's that other bit in the Guardian article that you posted, but you decided not to highlight. "A Labour source said Corbyn’s recollection of why the Labour leader walked past seemingly empty seats, as shown in one CCTV still, was that there were no vacant pairs of seats, and he wanted to sit next to his wife, Laura, for the journey."

How does that song go? "If you can't sit with the one you love. Crouch outside the shitters."

[BillyStubbsTears]

Anyway, like I was saying, it's never happen under Malcolm Tucker.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/when-the-news-agenda-is-derailed?bftwuk&utm_term=.jip5l8r95G#.bvb9L6OV9Q

I wonder what Seamus Milne actually does for a living?

[Sprotyrover]

Sproty has just had an attack of apoplexy,there I was sat watching the Corbyn Comic saga and just about to enjoy perusing a vintage issue of 'Rustler readers Wives' sexmas special when I look up and there is the Jew hater sharing a Podium with Kamila I'mafatuselesssmellyfart ex of that well known grooming club for future antichrists alias kids company. There was I thinking  she was living out of the bins having been excorcised from society,now how wrong I was she has re invented herself as a corbynite! Quell horreur!

[wilts rover]

Anyway, like I was saying, it's never happen under Malcolm Butler.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/when-the-news-agenda-is-derailed?bftwuk&utm_term=.jip5l8r95G#.bvb9L6OV9Q

I wonder what Seamus Milne actually does for a living?

Well he doesn't book train seats. Was this train 'full'? Were there people (other than Corbyn) sitting/standing in the aisle/doorway? Did Corbyn sit with them? Did the train staff then 'find' seats for these people? Is someone being disingenous here?

Is that the same Alan White who is the drummer with Yes? Looks younger in his photo there?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I've been trying to work out who Malcolm Butler is...don't you mean Malcolm Tucker?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I do mean Malcolm Tucker. Kind of knackered the entire aim of the message hasn't it?

 For some reason, Andy Butler kept coming to mind. I can imagine him doing Tucker-esque monologues at half time when we're shit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Anyway, like I was saying, it's never happen under Malcolm Butler.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/when-the-news-agenda-is-derailed?bftwuk&utm_term=.jip5l8r95G#.bvb9L6OV9Q

I wonder what Seamus Milne actually does for a living?

Well he doesn't book train seats. Was this train 'full'? Were there people (other than Corbyn) sitting/standing in the aisle/doorway? Did Corbyn sit with them? Did the train staff then 'find' seats for these people? Is someone being disingenous here?

Wilts.

Corbyn doesn't book his own seats. You raise a good point.

See, Corbyn was on very strong ground with the basic thrust of the point he was making. Railway privatisation is economically sensible, socially desirable and electorally popular. What could go wrong with hitting on that theme?

Trouble is, the way its been handled, he comes across at best as someone who is surrounded by a chaotically amateurish private office who can't even book the prospective PM a seat on a train for an appointment that they've know about for several weeks, or at worst, a liar. At the very least, an open goal has been badly miscued.

And that is the point. That is the main point I've been making for 12 months about Corbyn. It doesn't MATTER if you are right on the substance. If you f**k up on the impression (which is all that most people ever see in politics) then you are unelectable.

[Lipsy]

TFFT - I googled Malcolm Butler at least 3 times and came up with feck all. I felt certain that you were referring to Tucker, as all I came up with was some Yank football player and the former chairman of Comac.

Oddly enough, an old friend posted this on Facebook not long ago: "Now a word from today's sponsors. The good people at Tucker's Law. Google them!"

Must be something in the water.

[MachoMadness]

f**k me lads. It's not the Zapruder tapes is it?

Is it really so hard to believe that a man who regularly uses trains and buses occasionally finds himself on a packed one and decided to use this one to illustrate a pertinent point, and shortly after doing so was shuffled into another seat? That's dead simple and logical isn't it? BST, as this forum's number one proponent of Occam's Razor I'd have thought you'd have the sense to f**k this story off immediately.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I've never had to stand on the east coast mainline. Maybe I'm just better at cooking seats....

[BillyStubbsTears]

Macho

If he was trying to make a pertinent point, it would have been better to do it on a train that actually WAS packed.

The most excruciatingly embarrassing aspect of this story is the explanation from one source that the seats that appeared empty in one CCTV shot actually had bags and coats on them. Let's just have a think about that. The man who would be our representative in the world, the man who aspires to dealing with Putin and Clinton and Xi Jinping doesn't have the balls to ask someone to move a bag off a seat so that he can sit down?

I am using Occam's Razor by the way. This most likely story is really very simple. The train was busy but not packed. Some bell end of an aide thought "Hey, we can make a really great point here if we get Jezza to crouch disconsolately outside the shitters and be really, like, down with the people who are oppressed by the capitalist overlords" and didn't actually think it through.

And the responses on here absolutely nail the point I've been making since Corbyn was elected. 20% of the people in the country will love him, believe his every word and absolutely refuse to countenance any failure in him. The other 80% will do facepalms every time his name is mentioned. 

The Twitter kids will convince themselves that this is the Establishment stitching Corbyn up because he is going to destroy them. But it's not. It's Corbyn stitching himself up. He's had 12 months of not needing to be attacked by the Tories because he's done such a brilliant job for them of looking like an incompetent buffoon.

[Bentley Bullet]

Surely if the train was full it would reflect the popularity of the railways. Filming an empty train might have been more representative of the re-nationalisation supporters.

Just a thought, like.

[The Red Baron]

I have to say this thread has caused me considerable mirth in what has been a bit of a shitty week so far so many thanks to all who have contributed and please keep it up.

Two points not related to the main thrust at all.

1. Kudos to Sproty for spotting that odious fraud Camilla Batman-robin trying to muscle in with Corbyn. Although to be fair such is her need to get her snout in the taxpayer-funded trough again that if Smith wins she'll be first on the phone to congratulate him.

2. The idea of Andy "Malcolm" Butler saying anything of benefit at half time is rather contradicted by last season's events. It is possible that he or others might have said something under the old regime, though I get the impression that once Dickov had run out of his usual platitudes they all stared at the floor praying for the bell to summon them back onto the field. Now they will have the sermon from the tactical genius that is DF, with no opportunity to get further than "but, boss..." before he launches off on another tangent.

If only someone had said "are you going to carry on letting this pile of **** make you look like pub players?" the last 12 months might have been very different.

[Copps is Magic]

Anyone ever tried to get a seat off one of these passive aggressive Kitsons' who put their bags on the seat? And you know what that shaggy haired air-guitarist Branson did? He only took the fooking windows off the old intercity-125s didn't he. So now when you're stood up your jailed-in against the pulsating gust of a thousand shits emanating from the toilets. The air in those virgin trains is rancid capitalist stench.

When us trots take over this will all change. The air will be fresh and one seat for all will mean one seat for all.

[Copps is Magic]

Sorry, I meant the air will have a faint smell of lentils to engender a sense of togetherness.

[The Red Baron]

PS. Interesting to see the Daily Fail sticking the boot into Corbyn today. They usually only attack Labour leaders if they think they have a chance of winning a GE. (QV Ed Miliband's dad.)

[Lipsy]

A friend of mine just nailed it:

If only people were as concerned with the state of UK's rail services, as they appear to be with whether or not Corbyn slightly misrepresented a scenario highlighting the unquestionably poor state of the UK's rail services. #TrainGate

I'm no fan of Corbyn, but this continued attack on him for every little thing that he does kind of makes me think that the establishment and media fear him. I have no idea why they fear him, but a little bit of me warms to him every single time they attack him.

[MachoMadness]

Which would be an interesting point, BST, if it didn't ignore the fact that there were numerous other people sat on the floor during the train journey, which has not been disputed by Virgin. Presumably these people are just devout members of the cult of Corbyn who would gladly forgo a seat to crouch outside the shitter talking about nuclear disarmament and fair trade goods with Jez.

Also, polite social etiquette/desire to keep your head down on a train as a public figure =/= being crap at international relations.

I can't believe I'm even discussing this. Interestingly, Virgin could be in hot water for inappropriately releasing CCTV footage, though.

[Copps is Magic]

They usually only attack Labour leaders if they think they have a chance of winning a GE.

Don't tell stubbsy, he'll have to put double shifts in.

[Bentley Bullet]

Could it be that it was just a ploy by Corbyn to get more seats?

[Lipsy]

Fill yer boots conspiracy theorists. Fill yer boots:

"Amazing, too, that it happened to be released by a company that gets handed hundreds of millions in profit by the taxpayer on the very day the NHS 7-day disaster was released, thus relegating it from the headlines. And, what's this? Virgin Healthcare also destined to be handed hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money if no one notices how much the NHS is being ripped apart?"

Interesting discussion by some of my left-leaning chums on Facebook. Up to my neck in work, and my brain can hardly function at the moment as it's hotter than Satan's codpiece here in Dorset.