Billy Bremner

[Askern Rover]

I have just noticed it's 19 years today since the great man died .Loved watching the Rovers under the wee man .

[RTID!!!]

R.I.P

[IDM]

RIP indeed..  One of the few things myself and my Leeds supporting work colleague agree on, the legendary status of King Billy.

[BobG]

Gosh. That's a long, long time gone by very, very quickly. Fergie senior drove over from Manchester for the funeral that morning even though he only got back from a Turkish (I think) European clash late the night before.

It's the goal he scored for Leeds away at Highfield Road that I have always remembered. Just quality, quality, quality. A quality team, playing quality football with an awesome Johnny Giles quality pass and an even more awesome over his shoulder thumping great volley from the man. Better even than the Keegan/Toshack one that is still mentioned sometimes. One of the very best goals I've ever seen.

And I loved his team at BV the first time around too. Still my favouritest Rovers team of all.

BobG

[Sammy Chung was King]

That Leeds side if Revie had took the shackles off a bit in my opinion would have won more trophies and be remembered in a better light. They had some great ability in that side.
Billy Bremner i couldn't believe my luck when i bumped into him shopping with his wife in the Frenchgate centre when i was a kid. He waited around while i run into a card shop to buy something for him to sign. He waited a fair bit while i queued i think he was glad to get away from doing the shopping!.
He seemed a real gentleman and a nice person. I barely knew what to say my dad did all the talking. He was a great player from the bits i have seen and his 'hardman' image overshadowed how good he was. Was he any good when he made a few appearances for us, or was he well past his best?.

[sheffield exile1]

Lived in Clifton (village top end of Conisbrough) and unfortunately died in Mexborough Momtagu I believe of heart complications? My uncle was also in at the same time. My best recollection was a "meet the players" night at the Moma WMC Conisbrough (long gone) where he brought some players down and we had a buffet raffle etc when I was secretary of the Conisbrough branch. To say he was an iconic figure he was so "normal" and down to earth, chatting to old/young alike, asking how they were what they thought, not in any way "full of himself". A true gentleman.

[Filo]

That Leeds side if Revie had took the shackles off a bit in my opinion would have won more trophies and be remembered in a better light. They had some great ability in that side.
Billy Bremner i couldn't believe my luck when i bumped into him shopping with his wife in the Frenchgate centre when i was a kid. He waited around while i run into a card shop to buy something for him to sign. He waited a fair bit while i queued i think he was glad to get away from doing the shopping!.
He seemed a real gentleman and a nice person. I barely knew what to say my dad did all the talking. He was a great player from the bits i have seen and his 'hardman' image overshadowed how good he was. Was he any good when he made a few appearances for us, or was he well past his best?.

For a team that got labelled great, under Revie they did n't win that much. Two League champiosips, one FA Cup and One League Cup is all they could muster domestically. In Europe two inter cities fairs cup was their return. I would n't label them great in any shape or form

[IDM]

To be fair though Filo, there was a much more level playing field in top level football those days.  Just becoming "aware" of football in the early to mid 70s as a small child, Leeds and Liverpool were perceived as the 2 biggest clubs in the country..

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Great man. Great manager. We will never forget!

[Arksey rover]

I remember delivering a bed to someone's house in Conisbro, early eighties. Just before Christmas. Knocked on the door ,and was greeted by the man himself. Billy bremmner. Always been a rovers fan for as long as I can remember, and was absolutely gobsmacked to see him standing there. Anyway, we dropped off his new bed ,and couldn't believe it when he gave me a fiver tip. Never forgot that moment and never will. True gentleman and a true legend.

[idler]

That Leeds side if Revie had took the shackles off a bit in my opinion would have won more trophies and be remembered in a better light. They had some great ability in that side.
Billy Bremner i couldn't believe my luck when i bumped into him shopping with his wife in the Frenchgate centre when i was a kid. He waited around while i run into a card shop to buy something for him to sign. He waited a fair bit while i queued i think he was glad to get away from doing the shopping!.
He seemed a real gentleman and a nice person. I barely knew what to say my dad did all the talking. He was a great player from the bits i have seen and his 'hardman' image overshadowed how good he was. Was he any good when he made a few appearances for us, or was he well past his best?.

For a team that got labelled great, under Revie they did n't win that much. Two League champiosips, one FA Cup and One League Cup is all they could muster domestically. In Europe two inter cities fairs cup was their return. I would n't label them great in any shape or form

Filo I think that you are being a bit unkind there.
They murdered Chelsea twice in 1970 but lost the F.A. Cup final replay to them. They also had a goal controversially chalked off against Chelsea in the 67 semi-final as well.
The Greek referee of the losing final against Milan was banned for life for accepting bribes for that game.
They would have won the league in 71/72 had they not had to play so many games at the end of that season with no help from the FA.
There was also the ridiculous goal against them in the West Brom fixture.
More debatable is the Lorimer goal in the European Cup final but they were so near to winning so much more.
They certainly weren't overrated in my opinion.
Shankley instead of Revie as manager and they would have won far more.

[Filo]

Nearly winning is not being great

[Bentley Bullet]

I'm not sure Shankly would have approved of his team 'kicking' their way out of Division 2 obscurity to the top of Division 1.

[Filo]

That Leeds side if Revie had took the shackles off a bit in my opinion would have won more trophies and be remembered in a better light. They had some great ability in that side.
Billy Bremner i couldn't believe my luck when i bumped into him shopping with his wife in the Frenchgate centre when i was a kid. He waited around while i run into a card shop to buy something for him to sign. He waited a fair bit while i queued i think he was glad to get away from doing the shopping!.
He seemed a real gentleman and a nice person. I barely knew what to say my dad did all the talking. He was a great player from the bits i have seen and his 'hardman' image overshadowed how good he was. Was he any good when he made a few appearances for us, or was he well past his best?.

For a team that got labelled great, under Revie they did n't win that much. Two League champiosips, one FA Cup and One League Cup is all they could muster domestically. In Europe two inter cities fairs cup was their return. I would n't label them great in any shape or form

Filo I think that you are being a bit unkind there.
They murdered Chelsea twice in 1970 but lost the F.A. Cup final replay to them. They also had a goal controversially chalked off against Chelsea in the 67 semi-final as well.
The Greek referee of the losing final against Milan was banned for life for accepting bribes for that game.
They would have won the league in 71/72 had they not had to play so many games at the end of that season with no help from the FA.
There was also the ridiculous goal against them in the West Brom fixture.
More debatable is the Lorimer goal in the European Cup final but they were so near to winning so much more.
They certainly weren't overrated in my opinion.
Shankley instead of Revie as manager and they would have won far more.

Liverpools period of winning everything started about 1974.

Leeds period of nearly winnig things ended before that in 1973 when they nearly won the FA cup 😀

[The Red Baron]

Filo

Leeds won the League in 1973-74.

They did underachieve in terms of trophies considering the talent they had. I think nowadays they would be thought of as chokers.

[PDX_Rover]

I used to knock about with his son, young Billy. He was a good lad. Didn't BB used to live on the way out to Woodlands in that new development just past and opposite Don Valley school?

[roversontheup]

I always wished I could be a fly on the wall and listen to his half time team talks.  If the first half was poor you always knew the team would came out for the second half absolutely galvanised.

[BobG]

It doesn't matter if they were great or not. Leeds United of the early 70's had some of the best players it has ever been my privilege to see. There ain't many that can stand comparison with Johnny Giles, Eddie Grey, Billy Bremner, Alan Clarke, Terry Cooper and Peter Lorimer. The rest weren't too shabby either. Even World Cup winning, 'little black book' Jack Charlton.

They had the aura of champions irrespective of what they actually achieved. and yes. They really were cheated out of several trophies. That West Brom goal, Ray Tinkler's bare faced cheating, was the most shameful bit of refereeing I have ever witnessed - even allowing for that knob head we have to put up with. It cost Leeds a title.

BobG

[idler]

That Leeds side if Revie had took the shackles off a bit in my opinion would have won more trophies and be remembered in a better light. They had some great ability in that side.
Billy Bremner i couldn't believe my luck when i bumped into him shopping with his wife in the Frenchgate centre when i was a kid. He waited around while i run into a card shop to buy something for him to sign. He waited a fair bit while i queued i think he was glad to get away from doing the shopping!.
He seemed a real gentleman and a nice person. I barely knew what to say my dad did all the talking. He was a great player from the bits i have seen and his 'hardman' image overshadowed how good he was. Was he any good when he made a few appearances for us, or was he well past his best?.

For a team that got labelled great, under Revie they did n't win that much. Two League champiosips, one FA Cup and One League Cup is all they could muster domestically. In Europe two inter cities fairs cup was their return. I would n't label them great in any shape or form

Filo I think that you are being a bit unkind there.
They murdered Chelsea twice in 1970 but lost the F.A. Cup final replay to them. They also had a goal controversially chalked off against Chelsea in the 67 semi-final as well.
The Greek referee of the losing final against Milan was banned for life for accepting bribes for that game.
They would have won the league in 71/72 had they not had to play so many games at the end of that season with no help from the FA.
There was also the ridiculous goal against them in the West Brom fixture.
More debatable is the Lorimer goal in the European Cup final but they were so near to winning so much more.
They certainly weren't overrated in my opinion.
Shankley instead of Revie as manager and they would have won far more.

Liverpools period of winning everything started about 1974.

Leeds period of nearly winnig things ended before that in 1973 when they nearly won the FA cup 😀

I must have dreamed about them winning the title in 1992 then Filo.
Not liking a team doesn't make them a bad team.

[Filo]

That Leeds side if Revie had took the shackles off a bit in my opinion would have won more trophies and be remembered in a better light. They had some great ability in that side.
Billy Bremner i couldn't believe my luck when i bumped into him shopping with his wife in the Frenchgate centre when i was a kid. He waited around while i run into a card shop to buy something for him to sign. He waited a fair bit while i queued i think he was glad to get away from doing the shopping!.
He seemed a real gentleman and a nice person. I barely knew what to say my dad did all the talking. He was a great player from the bits i have seen and his 'hardman' image overshadowed how good he was. Was he any good when he made a few appearances for us, or was he well past his best?.

For a team that got labelled great, under Revie they did n't win that much. Two League champiosips, one FA Cup and One League Cup is all they could muster domestically. In Europe two inter cities fairs cup was their return. I would n't label them great in any shape or form

Filo I think that you are being a bit unkind there.
They murdered Chelsea twice in 1970 but lost the F.A. Cup final replay to them. They also had a goal controversially chalked off against Chelsea in the 67 semi-final as well.
The Greek referee of the losing final against Milan was banned for life for accepting bribes for that game.
They would have won the league in 71/72 had they not had to play so many games at the end of that season with no help from the FA.
There was also the ridiculous goal against them in the West Brom fixture.
More debatable is the Lorimer goal in the European Cup final but they were so near to winning so much more.
They certainly weren't overrated in my opinion.
Shankley instead of Revie as manager and they would have won far more.

Liverpools period of winning everything started about 1974.

Leeds period of nearly winnig things ended before that in 1973 when they nearly won the FA cup 😀

I must have dreamed about them winning the title in 1992 then Filo.
Not liking a team doesn't make them a bad team.

No you did n't dream it, Don Revie was long gone by then though, which is what the original point was

[Bentley Bullet]

L**ds may have established themselves as a very good team but not before kicking their way to that status.

Teams back then had one hard man, like Liverpool's Tommy Smith and Chelsea's Chopper Harris. L**ds had 5 or 6 thugs, Johnny Giles being the worst.

They should not be respected, they kicked their way to the top and then had the audacity to claim they were mistreated when they got there.

Horrible club.

[Filo]

Norman Hunter fancied himself as a hard man until Franny Lee knocked him all over the pitch 😀

https://youtu.be/V8kxMnc5KUs

[Bentley Bullet]

Johnny Giles liked to stand in front of an opponent and slide his studs down his leg, the theory behind it being how can you foul someone when your back's to him?

Jack Charlton used to back into opponents at corners and knock them flying, the theory being, you've guessed it, how can you foul someone when your back's to him?

[BobG]

Leeds weren't alone though BB. Football as a whole was nasty, brutish and... cynical. Revie was not a nice guy. His team were cynical. But that doesn't mean they couldn't play and it doesn't mean they got to the top as a result of nastiness on its own. Liverpool were gits back then too don't forget. Chelsea were worse. Dave Mackay at Derby by then I think was an utter animal. But I hope no one is going to say he couldn't play. He was an awesome player. And an awesome thug too. So were Leeds. But on occasion they reached heights of football beauty that no other English team of the time could reach. 

I suspect you're being selective in singling out Leeds as being bad boys BB. They were, I agree. But so were a lot of others. It's what football was. But they were supremely talented too.

BobG

PS I was a Liverpool and Rovers supporter back then too btw.

[Bentley Bullet]

Like I said previously, every team had a hard man, but L**ds had 5 or 6 thugs in order to compete, initially.

The famous picture of our two future managers showing Mckay grabbing Bremner's collar was as a result of Bremner (allegedly) trying to re-break Mckay's leg - the leg McKay broke previously and was making his first appearance after recovery.

I admire anyone who achieves success, providing they did it fairly.

[NickDRFC]

It's well before my time so I can only go on what I've read, seen or been told, but my understanding is similar to what BB has said above - half the team were thugs, a good deal more than their rivals. When you hear about the double European Cup winning Forest side, or great Liverpool side of that era (or slightly later), there aren't nearly as many hard men as you would associate with Leeds.

No idea how close to the truth this is, but even though it's a fictional quote it's still one of my all time favourites - Brian Clough on meeting the Leeds squad for the first time.

"Well, I might as well tell you now. You lot may all be internationals and have won all the domestic honours there are to win under Don Revie. But as far as I'm concerned, the first thing you can do for me is to chuck all your medals and all your caps and all your pots and all your pans into the biggest f**king dustbin you can find, because you've never won any of them fairly. You've done it all by bloody cheating."

[idler]

Football was totally different then. I remember reading where 1st division Bolton were playing somebody in the late 50s and a full back giving a winger a right kicking.
At a break in play the other full back shouted to his mate, when you've finished with him kick him over here and I'll have a go.
Football was full of hard men. Imagine Nat Lofthouse's goal in the '58 final against Man U these days. There would be a riot.

[IDM]

And I doubt Bert Trautmann would have been brandishing an imaginary card at the ref either!!

[Sammy Chung was King]

Back then it was a man's game but at times there wasn't enough protection for the skilled player. But go back to the Syd Bycroft era and they would have thought Giles and the like were nothing.
Each generation get's softer in mentality because we have easier lives now. Players today are protected too much back then not enough. We need something in the middle of those two.