UKIP

[Lipsy]

Fair's fair - Farage was too busy backing this.

[CrippyCooke]

Fair's fair - Farage was too busy backing this.

This didn't get anywhere near the level of attention it deserved.

Disgusting message which appears to be lifted directly from a Nazi propaganda production.

[idler]

I remember the Torie's Labour isn't working poster.
That wasn't very truthful or clever either.

[Bentley Bullet]

Isn't the use of Godwin's law much maligned on this forum?

[CrippyCooke]

Isn't the use of Godwin's law much maligned on this forum?

I don't think Godwin's law is completely relevant when the comparisons between the 'Breaking Point' poster and this Nazi propaganda footage are clear.

[Bentley Bullet]

But that is EXACTLY what Godwin's law is, and it's disliked by the lefties on here.

[Lipsy]

When something looks, walks and quacks like a duck, we're generally happy to call it what it is. In the case of the above image, it was almost as grim as the foulness that Farage spouts on a weekly basis. Which in turn is not quite as grim as the fact that we walk amongst far too many people who believe everything that this man says.

[CrippyCooke]

But that is EXACTLY what Godwin's law is, and it's disliked by the lefties on here.

I interpret Godwin's Law to be a criticism of online discussions whereby any topic, regardless of its relevance to Nazi Germany, eventually results in comparisons to Hitler. In this case we are discussing a poster that very strongly imitates Nazi propaganda therefore comparison to Nazi Germany is unavoidable. You wouldn't ordinarily cite Godwin's Law during a discussion of Nazi Germany so I do not see its relevance here either.

[Mike_F]

But that is EXACTLY what Godwin's law is, and it's disliked by the lefties on here.

No, Godwin's law is extending the theme of what somebody is saying and comparing it to the Nazis. This example isn't speculating about how the Nazis might have framed that image; it's showing concrete proof that the two are exactly the bloody same!

EDIT: 

[Bentley Bullet]

But it's only the same if you're inclined to think it is! Some people think Brexiters are like Nazis, some don't.

[Lipsy]

I don't think that I have ever heard of Brexiters being referred to in such a way. However, the blaming of 'others', the growing attacks on foreigners and the LGBT community, wanting to put British (and sometimes English) people first, and the blaming of immigrants for all of our ills has more than a whiff of the fuel that drove Nazism.

Given that UKIP is powered by tapping into that, and given that Tory MPs are quietly mumbling that nothing much will in terms of immigration for many, many years, I really do worry about the potential fury that will be whipped up when those people who support UKIP and Brexit realise that they have been lied to.

[Syme]

I doubt they'll ever realise. Ignorance is bliss.

If, somehow, they do realise, then they'll just blame someone else.

[RedJ]

And then leaving the EU will have been utterly pointless.

[Lipsy]

Well, it has rather conveniently handed power to the Tories for nearly another decade. So that worked well for them. Seriously, though, you fight a campaign on the evils of immigrants and immigration and then nothing changes... And things continue to get worse. That's a rum recipe for some bad stuff in the future.

You can't give people hope and then continue to roger them... You just can't. I'm fearful, I really am.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well, it has rather conveniently handed power to the Tories for nearly another decade. So that worked well for them. Seriously, though, you fight a campaign on the evils of immigrants and immigration and then nothing changes... And things continue to get worse. That's a rum recipe for some bad stuff in the future.

You can't give people hope and then continue to roger them... You just can't. I'm fearful, I really am.

You just keep giving them 'alternative facts', they'll lap it up without a squeak and carry on disbelieving the real truth as the propaganda of some nebulous political elite...

[idler]

Lipsy it also depends on where you live.
A person in a poor inner city with no prospect of a job will look at it differently to a person living in the suburbs with a nice house, decent job and pension.
I have four grandchildren still at school.
Two at an under performing school in Bradford and two that live in the Yorkshire Dales and go to Bradfod Grammar.
Their futures are probably as far apart as could be imagined. They will therefor have different opinions of the country.
Two live in an area where there are gangs of Slovak kids arguing with Pakistani, Uzbeki and god knows how many other nationalities.
The other two travel thirty miles into school every day and then go back to a village that seems like travelling back to the 60s.
The two in Bradford have a far different outlook to the two in the country.
The solution is somewhere in the middle but there are some scary places just now in our country.
The only way to a decent future is to pull together, a good boss needs good workers and vice versa.

[Lipsy]

We have an unelected PM who backed Remain now steering us towards a hard Brexit. We have a Foreign Secretary who warned us that Turkey was going to join the EU (and that its population would flood our country) who popped off to Turkey to tell them he'd do anything he could to get 'em in the EU. And now we have a Brexit Secretary telling EU countries that we'll need skilled and unskilled labour from EU countries for many years - you couldn't make this up. It's beyond parody.

The lack of grown-up conversation about immigration is what got us in this mess (and our own government's unwillingness to deal with it), and it's why UKIP exists.

[RedJ]

Bloody immigrants, coming over here and taking our discussions.

[Lipsy]

 

One of my favourite comedy routines ever. Everyone should watch it. Truly wonderful.

[Lipsy]

"The Beaker people, coming over here and bringing their drinking vessels. What's wrong with using your hands, or lapping it up like a cat?"

[idler]

We have an unelected PM who backed Remain now steering us towards a hard Brexit. We have a Foreign Secretary who warned us that Turkey was going to join the EU (and that its population would flood our country) who popped off to Turkey to tell them he'd do anything he could to get 'em in the EU. And now we have a Brexit Secretary telling EU countries that we'll need skilled and unskilled labour from EU countries for many years - you couldn't make this up. It's beyond parody.

The lack of grown-up conversation about immigration is what got us in this mess (and our own government's unwillingness to deal with it), and it's why UKIP exists.

I was always dubious of her enthusiasm for backing remain.
Was she like Boris and deciding which side of the fence suited her best before ending up in a position where she is in charge of following her preferred option.

[Lipsy]

Idler - I get it. Well, as much as a man raised in Askern who now lives an okay(ish) life in Bournemouth can "get it". I have nippers of my own and I'm scared witless about their education/future. I'm genuinely fretful of the fact that the vast inequalities in this country are being used as a political force. UKIP's done it, Brexit did it too... To me, UKIP is your typical hard-right movement that gets the attention of the few but never really gains momentum* (as a country, the hardest of right-wing movements have never really caught on), but when I look at Brexit stuff I see the promises made (explicitly and implicitly) and they were either nonsense or are already falling by the wayside. People's hopes and expectations are being dashed, and that cannot be good for this country. I genuinely believe we need a proper leader for this country. A statesman (statesperson?) who can get through all of the challenges that befall us and put what is best for all of us first.**





*I'm saying this before the result of the byelections, mind. I'll weep if Nuttall gets in.
** Not Farage. He's not a statesman, and there's only one thing he's capable of putting first: himself.

[Lipsy]

We have an unelected PM who backed Remain now steering us towards a hard Brexit. We have a Foreign Secretary who warned us that Turkey was going to join the EU (and that its population would flood our country) who popped off to Turkey to tell them he'd do anything he could to get 'em in the EU. And now we have a Brexit Secretary telling EU countries that we'll need skilled and unskilled labour from EU countries for many years - you couldn't make this up. It's beyond parody.

The lack of grown-up conversation about immigration is what got us in this mess (and our own government's unwillingness to deal with it), and it's why UKIP exists.

I was always dubious of her enthusiasm for backing remain.
Was she like Boris and deciding which side of the fence suited her best before ending up in a position where she is in charge of following her preferred option.

She certainly played the long game, that's for sure. But she knew full well that being in the EU was better for business - and said so behind closed doors (that weren't so closed) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/25/exclusive-leaked-recording-shows-what-theresa-may-really-thinks-about-brexit

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Bad result for UKIP really last night, but not surprising, it was a poor campaign for them.

Not a disaster for Labour when you look at the numbers but losing a seat to government now is pretty terrible.

[The Red Baron]

Bad result for UKIP really last night, but not surprising, it was a poor campaign for them.

Not a disaster for Labour when you look at the numbers but losing a seat to government now is pretty terrible.

Terrible hardly does it credit. There's no way an incumbent party should be winning a seat off the opposition at this stage of a Parliament.

And in Copeland Labour campaigned hard on the NHS, where even some Tories think the Government is doing poorly.

Stoke Central was hardly better. Ok, Labour saw off UKIP but Labour's share of the vote went down and the Tory share went up.

No doubt the Corbyn Fan Club will rally round their man though. Less a political party, more a personality cult.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I look forward to the day that Nuttall moves into the address in Stoke he 'erroneously' put on his election application in advance of living in, but insisted throughout the campaign that he is moving to.

But I'm not going to hold my breath!

[Lipsy]

I shouldn't hold your breath. Between crawling back under the rock he came from and saving Gotham city, Nuttall's got a lot on his plate.

[hoolahoop]

Your first para MM reminds me of the absolutely stonking Twitter put down by J K Rowling of that odious creep Piers Morgan a few days ago.

Cheers

BobG

He is a horrible little man I totally agree Bob.

[idler]

I can't believe how PM can earn a living.
Mind you he can't as a journalist.
The Sun probably invented Fake News, closely followed by The Sunday Sport.

[BobG]

He's on my list of the first ten to be put up against a wall when I assume the mantle of Lord of the Universe.

Cheers

BobG