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Author Topic: Independent Timekeeper.  (Read 3016 times)

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Colin C No.3

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Independent Timekeeper.
« on February 20, 2017, 12:18:31 pm by Colin C No.3 »
Isn't it about time we took the responsibility for stoppage time away from the duties of the referee?

If we had someone sat in the stands or close to the technical area's, whose sole duty was to stop his watch when the referee blew his whistle to stop play for injuries, substitutions etc., & restarted his watch when the referee blew to restart the game. He could then either signal to the ref, inform the 4th official, or better still sound a hooter when the 45+ & 90+ minutes were up.

This would immediately stop any timewasting such as 'running on the spot' when substituted when your team is winning, managers signalling for their players to stay down when 'injured', goalkeepers delaying goal kicks, all things that infuriate the crowd & have them howling at the referee. It just wouldn't happen anymore because the clock would have stopped.

I can't think of one good reason for such an idea not to be implemented.



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GazLaz

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #1 on February 20, 2017, 12:21:30 pm by GazLaz »
I think it's the one thing they all do reasonably well.

Donnywolf

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #2 on February 20, 2017, 12:26:14 pm by Donnywolf »
I thought the one at the Luton game did an appalling job tbh

Did not count the Subs but lets say 4 = 2 mins Add 2 goals = 1 min

Time wasting he said to the kn*b that booted it down the Tunnel

Several real injuries Jordan Houghton for one and several lesser injuries.

Throw ins they did not want to take and 2 Corners minimum that they took an age over

All that equalled 5 minutes ? Should have been nearer to 9 - so you might be right in general but Saurday he was miles out

Donnywolf

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #3 on February 20, 2017, 12:30:42 pm by Donnywolf »
Isn't it about time we took the responsibility for stoppage time away from the duties of the referee?

If we had someone sat in the stands or close to the technical area's, whose sole duty was to stop his watch when the referee blew his whistle to stop play for injuries, substitutions etc., & restarted his watch when the referee blew to restart the game. He could then either signal to the ref, inform the 4th official, or better still sound a hooter when the 45+ & 90+ minutes were up.

This would immediately stop any timewasting such as 'running on the spot' when substituted when your team is winning, managers signalling for their players to stay down when 'injured', goalkeepers delaying goal kicks, all things that infuriate the crowd & have them howling at the referee. It just wouldn't happen anymore because the clock would have stopped.

I can't think of one good reason for such an idea not to be implemented.

Neither can I and I have been saying for ages that :

The clock should stop when a goal is scored and only restarted when the Team that conceded Kicks off again

The Clock should stop as soon as the Ref blows for a Substitution and only restart when that has been completed

There would be no advantage then to doing as they did after scoring Saturday as it took longer than the 30 seconds "allowance" for sure. Sub wise they could crawl off from the furthest point on the Pitch without impacting the other Team

I for one say YES - Just do it

DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #4 on February 20, 2017, 12:31:37 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
Been saying it for years. It should be a simple task to monitor time but only in football, is it made into a mystery.

As we move to more advances in goal line technology it just amazes me that we can't move to a match clock that would address so many frustrations in player/manager behavior we see every week.

The other frustrating thing is there doesn't seem to be a call for it from the authorities or within the game.

roversdude

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #5 on February 20, 2017, 12:33:54 pm by roversdude »
No reasonable argument against this, especially as officials don't want to control this aspect of the game

balbyrover

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #6 on February 20, 2017, 12:36:31 pm by balbyrover »
Madness that the clock isn't stopped. Nothing more frustrating than when your team is losing and the opposition are taking every oppurtunity to waste as many seconds as possible. 

DaveDRFC

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #7 on February 20, 2017, 12:41:33 pm by DaveDRFC »
You wouldn't be able to stop the clock for every single stoppage, you'd end up with halves lasting over an hour. Breaks in play for corners, goal kicks, free kicks etc are all part of football, there are far more natural stoppages than in rugby which obviously does use this system.

I prefer the way they do it in Spain, watch any La Liga match and they very rarely have more than a couple of minutes added on at the end. You just know 90 minutes means 90 minutes, I think it's ridiculous how we sometimes end up with 8, 9, 10 minutes extra in games here. Also if the game has clearly been won already and there's a 3 or 4 goal cushion they just blow up on 90 and don't bother with added time, another good thing in my opinion.

What it needs is for referees to clamp down harder on the time wasters and just get them in the book rather than talking to them over and over again, players would soon stop then.

RedJ

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #8 on February 20, 2017, 12:47:56 pm by RedJ »
See your last point (on Spain) I don't agree with. Yes the team may not get any more points but when GD comes into play (granted they use head to head before GD in Spain) they may end up getting a goal or two that may decide a placing later on.

Rosso Exile Deux

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #9 on February 20, 2017, 12:55:05 pm by Rosso Exile Deux »
Isn't it about time we took the responsibility for stoppage time away from the duties of the referee?


Think Fergie's Dad did a 30 year trial of that :)

Syme

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #10 on February 20, 2017, 01:35:27 pm by Syme »
Most games get just under 1 hour of playing time at the moment. So what you could do is stop the clock every time the ball wasn't in play, but reduce the match time to one hour. You'd see the same amount of action and it would do away with all the time wasting nonsense.

Donnywolf

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #11 on February 20, 2017, 02:10:21 pm by Donnywolf »

What it needs is for referees to clamp down harder on the time wasters and just get them in the book rather than talking to them over and over again, players would soon stop then.


That's what the Ref Saturday did just PLAIN wrongly on Saturday.

Just the one incident where boyo booted the Ball down the NE Tunnel. He knew the ball was out - he knew what he was doing - the officials knew what he had done

Call him over it was a Yellow Card all day long. Dish one out and it may have stopped the rest.

balbyrover

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #12 on February 20, 2017, 02:20:31 pm by balbyrover »
Most games get just under 1 hour of playing time at the moment. So what you could do is stop the clock every time the ball wasn't in play, but reduce the match time to one hour. You'd see the same amount of action and it would do away with all the time wasting nonsense.

No thanks. Football matches are 90 minutes long. Play the full 90 and stop the clock every time the ball isn't in play.

Syme

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #13 on February 20, 2017, 02:39:37 pm by Syme »
If you did that you'd have a game which lasted around 2 hours.

My suggestion would actually leave things largely as they are, the only difference would be on the clock, not on the experience. Yours would keep everyone hanging around for at least another half an hour.

balbyrover

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #14 on February 20, 2017, 02:46:14 pm by balbyrover »
If you did that you'd have a game which lasted around 2 hours.

My suggestion would actually leave things largely as they are, the only difference would be on the clock, not on the experience. Yours would keep everyone hanging around for at least another half an hour.

It wouldn't last two hours though.  If players were aware that the clock has been stopped they'd have no reason to waste time.
It would eliminate it from the game completely.

Syme

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #15 on February 20, 2017, 02:52:32 pm by Syme »
It would definitely last longer than 90 minutes. Every time the ref blew for a foul, the ball was out for a throw, players were waiting to take a corner - none of that time has the ball in play.

As I say, at the moment, all that adds up to over 30 minutes on average in a standard game of football. Some of that will be obvious time-wasting, but not a great deal.

balbyrover

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #16 on February 20, 2017, 02:55:53 pm by balbyrover »
We could discuss it all day to be honest.  I think that the best way to eliminate time wasting would be to just clamp down on it with bookings etc Sadly I'm not convinced that officials are strong enough to carry it out to good effect.

drfchound

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #17 on February 20, 2017, 02:59:48 pm by drfchound »
I dont think anyone is advocating stopping the clock if the ball went out for throw ins, just for when a goal is scored (Luton must have been 2 minutes with their celebrations)or for substitutions and injuries.
I also think that teams who use this as a time wasting tactic would stop simply because they wouldnt gain any advantage by doing it.

ss1953

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #18 on February 20, 2017, 03:04:01 pm by ss1953 »
Its fairly simple,

The fourth official should be the official timekeeper. (What else does he actually do). Stops the watch whenever the ball is not in play. Corners, throws free kicks, whatever. Reduce the match to 40 minutes actual playing time to make up for the normal time that is used for goal kicks etc..

Bob's your uncle.  American Football and Rugggbby league do it.

Read somewhere that the FA doesn't like the fact it cannot control when the matches would finish as in American Football.

ZiggerZagger

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #19 on February 20, 2017, 03:39:11 pm by ZiggerZagger »
I watched a documentary once a couple of years back. (Think it was Sheffield university ). They did an experiment at a league one game, to see how long the ball was actually "in play". Interestingly it was only in play for 51 minutes. Some of the stats were unreal, from the ball going out for a goal kick to it being taken wasted 11 mins. Throwings wasted nearly 14.

Colin C No.3

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #20 on February 20, 2017, 03:55:26 pm by Colin C No.3 »
I think it's the one thing they all do reasonably well.

I've always valued your astute opinion. I think it stems back from when you stated Marquis would not score more than 10 goals this season (& that back in August!).

I can't recall a post from you 'holding your hands up' on that one, just one's telling all & sundry what a "class act" Williams is.

balbyrover

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #21 on February 20, 2017, 05:18:09 pm by balbyrover »
I think it's the one thing they all do reasonably well.

I've always valued your astute opinion. I think it stems back from when you stated Marquis would not score more than 10 goals this season (& that back in August!).

I can't recall a post from you 'holding your hands up' on that one, just one's telling all & sundry what a "class act" Williams is.

I don't see what relevance that has to this discussion to be honest,completely going off the above topic.
Even so, I don't think GazLaz was alone in that opinion of Marquis. I initially thought he would be quite average. He has certainly exceeded my expectations. 

GazLaz

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #22 on February 20, 2017, 05:56:10 pm by GazLaz »
I think it's the one thing they all do reasonably well.

I've always valued your astute opinion. I think it stems back from when you stated Marquis would not score more than 10 goals this season (& that back in August!).

I can't recall a post from you 'holding your hands up' on that one, just one's telling all & sundry what a "class act" Williams is.

I was wrong about JM. I don't mind admitting that at all.

I will also have anyone a match bet next year that AW scores more than Marquis if they are both playing week in week out (I take it you are implying Williams is no good).
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 06:00:03 pm by GazLaz »

Superspy

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #23 on February 20, 2017, 07:13:47 pm by Superspy »
I dont think anyone is advocating stopping the clock if the ball went out for throw ins, just for when a goal is scored (Luton must have been 2 minutes with their celebrations)or for substitutions and injuries.
I also think that teams who use this as a time wasting tactic would stop simply because they wouldnt gain any advantage by doing it.


I'd advocate for it. I'm with Syme on this one. I genuinely believe the only way to eliminate time wasting altogether is to take away the fact that the time matters at all..by stopping the clock every time the ball isn't in play, shortening the game time to whatever the average in-play time is (be it an hour, 70 minutes or whatever) and scrap injury time.

The problem with trying to clamp down by punishing players for time wasting is 2-fold.

1) It allows inconsistency in officiating due to leniency\interpretation of the rules by the ref, just like a lot of other rules of the game. Think about the amount we all moan about inconsistency now for things like how harsh a foul is...or whether fouls would be given in or out of the box etc. Now try to imagine how bad it would get if we're trying to put time limits (down to the second) on referee's giving out time wasting cards. It's bad enough as it is.
2) Players not giving a shit. Everything is risk\reward in their eyes, as proven by the amount of "professional fouls" (read as 'f**king dirty') we see whenever somebody is breaking away with the ball. Plenty of players would happily take a card to waste time.

The only way you can truly eliminate both of those issues is to make them completely irrelevant by stopping the clock and removing the "human" factor.

All just my opinion of course. :)

idler

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #24 on February 20, 2017, 08:47:27 pm by idler »
They don't do it just to waste time though.
It breaks up play and stops a teams rhythm.

DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #25 on February 20, 2017, 11:24:05 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
I think the benefits would outweigh the cons. I agree re throw ins, especially if we have a multi ball system. Time is an integral part of the game and the players/managers behaviour should not control it.

A clock running down would add an extra dimension to the game. I'm sure there would be some goals scored in the very last seconds or see some comedy/clever play as teams try to run down the clock as the crowd counts down, TEN, NINE, EIGHT....

It's long overdue!

not on facebook

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #26 on February 20, 2017, 11:53:00 pm by not on facebook »
Can you picture the aftermath carnage if the home crowd started to count down 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

When the time keeper still has 30 seconds or whatever left on his watch

roversdude

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #27 on February 21, 2017, 08:48:45 am by roversdude »
It'll never catch on in Barnsley where they can't count
The multi ball system was (in my opinion) a step forward- we then took 2 steps backwards by ditching it

Syme

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Re: Independent Timekeeper.
« Reply #28 on February 21, 2017, 12:03:43 pm by Syme »
Can you picture the aftermath carnage if the home crowd started to count down 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

When the time keeper still has 30 seconds or whatever left on his watch

If it was like rugby then I think the official time is broadcast so everyone is on the same page - officials, players and spectators

 

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