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Author Topic: Englands last two games > is there new hope  (Read 1430 times)

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not on facebook

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Englands last two games > is there new hope
« on March 27, 2017, 07:11:39 pm by not on facebook »
Did not watch the Germany defeat  so only going on what I see via whatever media outlet and bits that I read off here.

It's the first time that England have got beat and it seems more than enough comments are positive about England.

So I took the time to watch the last 2-0 win at wembley against Lithuania .what I found good was that that dead leg Rooney was not even picked and don't look he will be picked again.

It's seems that no longer players will play for England out of their natural position ,round holes square pegs etc etc.

When Defoe was brought off the other day who young was that England team on the pitch.

Long may it last



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not on facebook

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #1 on March 27, 2017, 07:31:46 pm by not on facebook »
While Iam on the subject England under 23s have just gone 4 > 0 up away to Denmark.

The England younger teams of  last fews years do seem to be going from strength to strength .

Did France younger players not go through same type of thing before they was brought into the senior squad and won things .

Herbert Anchovy

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #2 on March 27, 2017, 09:05:01 pm by Herbert Anchovy »
For me, it's positive that Southgate seems to be selecting players on form rather than reputation.

On the point about the U23 team, I think that as a nation we are producing good, young players. The issue is that they're not getting game time with their clubs as the premier league teams opt for established players (usually from abroad) rather than blooding in younger players. As a consequence their development is 'stunted' at an early age,

The Red Baron

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #3 on March 28, 2017, 10:19:55 am by The Red Baron »
Very true. The Under 19s beat their Spanish contemporaries quite comfortably recently. The trouble is that very few of the youngsters get opportunities in the first team in the Premier League. That's what needs sorting out if we are going to compete at senior level.

Syme

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #4 on March 28, 2017, 10:28:44 am by Syme »
Our record of bringing decent U21 players through to be regular senior internationals is pretty awful.

Most players seem to be thrown straight into the senior team, or spend a few years knocking around in the U21 before disappearing.

Rashford is an interesting situation at the moment. Is it better for him, and in the long term the country, to play a bit part for the senior team, out of position, or play 90 minutes up top for the U21? Should he play in the Euro's in the summer, or have the time off to avoid burnout later in his career?

Personally I think unless he's starting for the senior team, leave him in the U21s.

The Red Baron

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #5 on March 28, 2017, 10:55:42 am by The Red Baron »
Our record of bringing decent U21 players through to be regular senior internationals is pretty awful.

Most players seem to be thrown straight into the senior team, or spend a few years knocking around in the U21 before disappearing.

Rashford is an interesting situation at the moment. Is it better for him, and in the long term the country, to play a bit part for the senior team, out of position, or play 90 minutes up top for the U21? Should he play in the Euro's in the summer, or have the time off to avoid burnout later in his career?

Personally I think unless he's starting for the senior team, leave him in the U21s.

That's because they don't get enough time in the Premier League.

As the Under 21s are playing in the European Championship this summer Rashford needs to be with them and getting experience of playing in a tournament. Same for any others who are eligible. If they have to miss a senior game or two, so be it.

Alan Southstand

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #6 on March 28, 2017, 11:02:29 am by Alan Southstand »
There is new hope - Bob Hope and No Hope.

boro_rover

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #7 on March 28, 2017, 11:37:09 am by boro_rover »
I don't think it would be a bad thing to introduce proper squad quotas like in the Chinese leagues where match day squads can have a finite number of international/ non GB players.

I think it is clear to see despite our PL squads being laced with international players we haven't exactly had any decent success in the champions league. Teams are failing to get past the quarters now.

Look at the spines of the biggest teams of late eg Barca and Munich with a strong homegrown national theme. They have it right in my opinion. It runs through their leagues that way too.

It is the lack of experience that has cost us and money ruining the game. 20 year olds these days would rather earn 80k being fourth choice for their position.

The bundesliga is almost a 1 or 2 horse race every year. But the best players from other sides invariably end up playing for Munich or Dortmund. Those players go on to be internationals who play 40/50 games a season nationally together and learn each other's game completely.

Spurs are about the only good team at the minute building a model that will suit the English team. 

Syme

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #8 on March 28, 2017, 12:00:07 pm by Syme »
Here's the case against the 'spine' argument

Bayern - Neuer, Martinez, Vidal, Lewandoski
Barca - ter Stegen, Mascherano, Rakitic, Messi
Real - Navas, Varane, Modric, Ronaldo

Anyway, the PL has no interest in bringing in a quota. They make a fortune from TV revenue because they're "the most exciting league in the world". It's not really in their interest to promote homegrown talent.

As long as the PL has the money, then the England team will suffer. Although the England team was pretty shit before the PL, so there's obiviously more to it than just that.

RedJ

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #9 on March 28, 2017, 12:55:29 pm by RedJ »
So you're saying Neuer isn't German?

Syme

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #10 on March 28, 2017, 01:32:47 pm by Syme »
I'm saying one player isn't a spine.

It's a bit tongue in cheek though as you could of course put Hummels and Muller in their spine, Pique and Busquets at Barca, and Ramos and Isco at Real
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 01:35:30 pm by Syme »

boro_rover

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #11 on March 28, 2017, 09:38:08 pm by boro_rover »
To be fair syme you have just picked a non national player in each squad in your initial post. Bayern and Germany's best back line consists of Neuer, Hummels, Boateng and Lahm was captain, before retiring. Miller is also a key international and Kimmich is breaking on the scene. Barca have Alba, Busquets, Pique, Iniesta and lesserly Alcacer.


Syme

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #12 on March 28, 2017, 09:47:11 pm by Syme »
I did say it was slightly tongue in cheek.

I'll be very interested to see what Barca do next year. Busquets and Iniesta have been poor this season, with the latter possibly due to call it a day.

Bayern on the other hand will just buy the best players from their Bundesliga rivals - such as Rudy and Sule from Hoffenheim already

boro_rover

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #13 on March 29, 2017, 01:53:47 am by boro_rover »
Busqets and Iniesta have had poor seasons because Enrique has changed barcas style from playing tika taka to using wingbacks and getting the ball to msn as quickly as possible.

Both Germans as well aren't they. Big things are hoped for Süle. I just feel it strengthens the arguement that I made previously tbh...

godlike1

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #14 on March 29, 2017, 06:08:53 am by godlike1 »
My understanding is that Southgate wants those in the senior team that are eligible to go to the euros e.g. Kane, Stirling etc.

I think that's a good idea but just needs handling carefully to not upset those that got England there

Syme

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #15 on March 29, 2017, 07:15:25 am by Syme »
Busqets and Iniesta have had poor seasons because Enrique has changed barcas style from playing tika taka to using wingbacks and getting the ball to msn as quickly as possible.

Both Germans as well aren't they. Big things are hoped for Süle. I just feel it strengthens the arguement that I made previously tbh...

It's a bit of a stretch for me to be honest to pick two of the biggest clubs in World football and say they're succesful because they use homegrown talent. There's more examples of teams winning nothing, stacked full of domestic players.

And Real Madrid, who've won two of the last three European Cups, have done so with 3 Spaniards in the first final and 2 Spaniards in the second. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

The argument I agree with totally though is the idea that it should run through the league. That to me is key for developing young players with potential in to senior players that deliver. And unfortunately that just does not happen to a satisfactory level in the PL.

Sammy Chung was King

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Re: Englands last two games > is there new hope
« Reply #16 on March 31, 2017, 01:33:23 am by Sammy Chung was King »
It's getting very near to us selecting championship players on a regular basis because on the whole players come through the under 19's a small minority are good enough to get into the under 21's and an even smaller group make the full team.
It's encouraging that our football is starting to see the value of getting tournament experience rather than just chucking young guys into situations they have no experience of.
There is still work to be done on the mentality of players so they don't see it as a step down when they play in the full side then are wanted by their age group the standard is a step down but the experience gained is a step up.
Club managers will always protect the players for their own club you can't blame them but there has to be a realisation it helps improve a player for club and country playing in a tournament.

 

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