Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 03:42:11 pm

Login with username, password and session length

Links


FSA logo

Author Topic: Brexit Negotiations  (Read 307117 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

RedJ

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 18491
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1950 on July 17, 2018, 10:01:12 pm by RedJ »
hahahahaha



(want to hide these ads? Join the VSC today!)

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36606
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1951 on July 17, 2018, 11:44:42 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?

hoolahoop

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 10254
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1952 on July 18, 2018, 12:20:47 am by hoolahoop »
That's akin to setting fire to the house you want to buy because you're arguing over a few grand's difference.

Persuing this analogy a tad further the EU/JAP deal swiftly to be followed by the EU/AUS + EU/NZ , EU/TUR, EU/UKR deals it's akin to setting fire to the house you already own too - basically we are as a nation Homeless .

A trade war between China and our " supposed " allies the USA has left us sleeping on someone's spare couch - pure madness !! Where is the insurance ?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 12:29:14 am by hoolahoop »

hoolahoop

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 10254
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1953 on July 18, 2018, 12:34:48 am by hoolahoop »
I was joking glyn If the vote was stay or no deal I would walk away, if the eu had accepted the little things Cameron asked for this could have been avoided

" if the eu had accepted the little things Cameron asked for this could have been avoided "


They really have lost out haven't they ?
-  See the post above 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 12:52:55 am by hoolahoop »

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13585
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1954 on July 18, 2018, 12:44:16 am by SydneyRover »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?

Blackpool has never said what he wants nor has Wilts or any of the other Brexiters, not one of them has said what they want and why they want it.

They cant do it because their reasons when examined wouldnt stand up to scrutiny, wouldnt make sense, every time they are asked they either ignore the question or change the subject.

66 pages of Brexit debate and they have still not articulted a reason.

hoolahoop

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 10254
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1955 on July 18, 2018, 12:58:14 am by hoolahoop »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?

Blackpool has never said what he wants nor has Wilts or any of the other Brexiters, not one of them has said what they want and why they want it.

They cant do it because their reasons when examined wouldnt stand up to scrutiny, wouldnt make sense, every time they are asked they either ignore the question or change the subject.

66 pages of Brexit debate and they have still not articulted a reason.

Absolutely - I have yet to see a reasoned argument on Twitter or any other platform yet but here we go down the rabbit hole to the mad hatter's tea party - will there be any unicorns daddy ?

The Red Baron

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 16119
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1956 on July 18, 2018, 04:41:48 pm by The Red Baron »
Also say there was 3 options and 29 percent voted for a hard brexit 31 for a soft brexit and 40 percent for no brexit who would win?

I presume if you used the model Justine Greening is proposing you would then count second preferences, suitably weighted. Although it might not produce anything more convincing than your scenario.

That is the difficulty with a second referendum. It may well produce a different result to the first one, but the numbers might not be all that different. Anyone for another 52/48 split?

TRB will you really need that when many of those that didn't vote , realise it now matters . It's time the electorate as a whole were encouraged to vote ; there are over 12,000,000 votes not being cast out there. It still has to be a crash out or remain vote - we all know Article 50 could be torn up .


I can see that, because no-one really knows what a Soft Brexit would look like (although I could hazard a guess). May's White Paper is a step towards it, although as it will be no more acceptable to the EU than it is to the ERG, it is dead in the water.

A No-Deal Brexit now seems the most likely outcome, not because there is a majority in Parliament for it (far from it), but because there is no consensus on an alternative. So in reality any referendum would probably have the same question as the 2016 one. The main difference, I suppose, is by then we might have more idea of the implications of a No-Deal Brexit.

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1957 on July 18, 2018, 05:23:52 pm by wilts rover »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?

Blackpool has never said what he wants nor has Wilts or any of the other Brexiters, not one of them has said what they want and why they want it.

They cant do it because their reasons when examined wouldnt stand up to scrutiny, wouldnt make sense, every time they are asked they either ignore the question or change the subject.

66 pages of Brexit debate and they have still not articulted a reason.

Sydney - please show me any post or comment that I have made which says I am a Brexiteer.

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13585
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1958 on July 18, 2018, 11:41:56 pm by SydneyRover »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?

Blackpool has never said what he wants nor has Wilts or any of the other Brexiters, not one of them has said what they want and why they want it.

They cant do it because their reasons when examined wouldnt stand up to scrutiny, wouldnt make sense, every time they are asked they either ignore the question or change the subject.

66 pages of Brexit debate and they have still not articulted a reason.

Sydney - please show me any post or comment that I have made which says I am a Brexiteer.

I apologise if I am incorrect but, where do you stand, what do you want to happen, what is your preferred option?

hoolahoop

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 10254
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1959 on July 19, 2018, 12:03:23 am by hoolahoop »
Wilts I did warn Sydney further up the thread. Good question do you just play devil's advocate ?

Bentley Bullet

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 19305
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1960 on July 19, 2018, 01:49:23 am by Bentley Bullet »

hoolahoop

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 10254
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1961 on July 19, 2018, 09:46:25 am by hoolahoop »
https://youtu.be/PPvRsLWlDXw

Indeedy .......Farage, Johnson, Gove , Rees Mogg, IDS, Leadsom, the Russians, Gisela Stewart, Redwood, Bill Cash,
The Mail/ Express/ Sun/ Times , DUP,  both Leave campaigns - heavily fined and found to have broken rules, Cambridge Analytica, AIQ. Sky News , Question time , the BBC, Facebook, The European Reform Group

All the above and of course their owners/ campaign leaders roll off the tongue so EASILY  they have enjoyed so much Press and other Media coverage.

Small wonder that those that didn't vote Leave feel disenfranchised. Feel free to add more to the list .....

hoolahoop

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 10254
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1962 on July 19, 2018, 09:48:12 am by hoolahoop »
Oh and Filo for starting this 66 page thread.......

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1963 on July 19, 2018, 06:09:39 pm by wilts rover »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?

Blackpool has never said what he wants nor has Wilts or any of the other Brexiters, not one of them has said what they want and why they want it.

They cant do it because their reasons when examined wouldnt stand up to scrutiny, wouldnt make sense, every time they are asked they either ignore the question or change the subject.

66 pages of Brexit debate and they have still not articulted a reason.

Sydney - please show me any post or comment that I have made which says I am a Brexiteer.

I apologise if I am incorrect but, where do you stand, what do you want to happen, what is your preferred option?

Wilts I did warn Sydney further up the thread. Good question do you just play devil's advocate ?

No not devil's advocate Hoola (I leave that to BB he's much better at that than I am!) but I try and comment factually rather than personally. Where I think Sydney has gone wrong is that he has seen me answering Padge's question and taken the question to be my point of view rather than my answer to it.

Where do I stand?
I have worked in Europe (as a bricklayer), been to university in Europe, travelled extensively in Europe, had friends from Europe come over to visit me (and taken them to watch Rovers) and spent a lot of time researching wars in Europe. Why anyone would think that they dont want these advantages for themselves is beyond me. It's madness the whole thing. The problem is you cant stop it and pretend the referendum didn't happen and there is very little evidence of people changing their minds.

What do I want to happen?
What is needed is a deal that most of the country can get behind but unfortunately the way May has gone about the negotiations so far has divided the country more and to date has come up with a deal that hardly anyone can get behind. There is no majority in Parliament for a hard Brexit or to crash out with No Deal but thats where the negotiations seem to be heading. My main concern is how Brexit is leading to the rise of the far-right in British politics and where that might lead.

What is my preferred option?
A General Election with each party stating directly and comprehensively what their position is. Then people know exactly what they are voting for. If one party gets a majority then they get to implement their plans. If they dont then a national government involving all the party's (who win seats) so they are all involved in it.

Boomstick

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2155
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1964 on July 19, 2018, 06:56:52 pm by Boomstick »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?
no deals better than a bad deal.
at least then we can forge alliances and partnerships with the commonwealth and rest of the world.
too insular and protectionist of the eu to deny us this.

remoaners care little about the economics, its purely down to their political beliefs.
it's like believing in Britain isn't allowed, and we need a big brother to help us.

f**k that, I'm excited of what the world has on offer.

RedJ

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 18491
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1965 on July 19, 2018, 06:58:01 pm by RedJ »
The lack of substance in that post is astounding.

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13585
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1966 on July 19, 2018, 11:46:05 pm by SydneyRover »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?

Blackpool has never said what he wants nor has Wilts or any of the other Brexiters, not one of them has said what they want and why they want it.

They cant do it because their reasons when examined wouldnt stand up to scrutiny, wouldnt make sense, every time they are asked they either ignore the question or change the subject.

66 pages of Brexit debate and they have still not articulted a reason.

Sydney - please show me any post or comment that I have made which says I am a Brexiteer.

I apologise if I am incorrect but, where do you stand, what do you want to happen, what is your preferred option?

Wilts I did warn Sydney further up the thread. Good question do you just play devil's advocate ?

No not devil's advocate Hoola (I leave that to BB he's much better at that than I am!) but I try and comment factually rather than personally. Where I think Sydney has gone wrong is that he has seen me answering Padge's question and taken the question to be my point of view rather than my answer to it.

Where do I stand?
I have worked in Europe (as a bricklayer), been to university in Europe, travelled extensively in Europe, had friends from Europe come over to visit me (and taken them to watch Rovers) and spent a lot of time researching wars in Europe. Why anyone would think that they dont want these advantages for themselves is beyond me. It's madness the whole thing. The problem is you cant stop it and pretend the referendum didn't happen and there is very little evidence of people changing their minds.

What do I want to happen?
What is needed is a deal that most of the country can get behind but unfortunately the way May has gone about the negotiations so far has divided the country more and to date has come up with a deal that hardly anyone can get behind. There is no majority in Parliament for a hard Brexit or to crash out with No Deal but thats where the negotiations seem to be heading. My main concern is how Brexit is leading to the rise of the far-right in British politics and where that might lead.

What is my preferred option?
A General Election with each party stating directly and comprehensively what their position is. Then people know exactly what they are voting for. If one party gets a majority then they get to implement their plans. If they dont then a national government involving all the party's (who win seats) so they are all involved in it.

Thank you Wilts: It's madness the whole thing! you hit the nail on the head, where we disagree however is your view that it cant be stopped, that all depends on how badly you and I and others want to stop it. If it was France and the people opposed the government they would be out on the streets. Think about the way England played Columbia thats what is required instead of the English way of just accepting it as a foregone conclusion, stand up and fight back.
Its a shame that those that believe that certain things, whatever they may be will improve will only find out they are wrong if and when Brexit happens. What could change so dramatically to improve the lot of people in this nation if we still have the same selfish politicians running the circus.

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36606
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1967 on July 20, 2018, 12:04:32 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?
no deals better than a bad deal.
at least then we can forge alliances and partnerships with the commonwealth and rest of the world.
too insular and protectionist of the eu to deny us this.

remoaners care little about the economics, its purely down to their political beliefs.
it's like believing in Britain isn't allowed, and we need a big brother to help us.

f**k that, I'm excited of what the world has on offer.

I get the impression that German car exporters are also quite chuffed at the opportunities the world has to offer.

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13585
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1968 on July 20, 2018, 01:02:56 am by SydneyRover »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?
no deals better than a bad deal.
at least then we can forge alliances and partnerships with the commonwealth and rest of the world.
too insular and protectionist of the eu to deny us this.

remoaners care little about the economics, its purely down to their political beliefs.
it's like believing in Britain isn't allowed, and we need a big brother to help us.

f**k that, I'm excited of what the world has on offer.

I get the impression that German car exporters are also quite chuffed at the opportunities the world has to offer.

Unfortunately BST most of the manufacturers and bankers etc in Europe will be rubbing their hands together at the thought that Britain is jumping overboard with an old stove tied around the neck.

MachoMadness

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 5983
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1969 on July 20, 2018, 08:50:01 am by MachoMadness »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?
no deals better than a bad deal.
at least then we can forge alliances and partnerships with the commonwealth and rest of the world.
too insular and protectionist of the eu to deny us this.

remoaners care little about the economics, its purely down to their political beliefs.
it's like believing in Britain isn't allowed, and we need a big brother to help us.

f**k that, I'm excited of what the world has on offer.
We already HAVE those alliances as part of the EU! How are we going to get any better deals than a bloc of 27 other countries with half a billion people in it? Just by crossing our fingers and believing in Britain? Bolded part did make me chuckle though. Have you even made a single economic argument in this thread that wasn't either provably complete b*llocks or just "it'll be alright"?

RedJ

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 18491
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1970 on July 20, 2018, 09:07:16 am by RedJ »
I like how he's ignoring the fact that Leave is the one with no economic literate plans and is doing this virtually entirely for ideological reasons and then says that without a hint of irony.

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36606
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1971 on July 20, 2018, 09:46:45 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Yeah.

66 pages of folk pointing out the economic consequences of Brexit and our expert concludes that those who disagree with him aren’t interested in the economics.

What’s that saying? There’s nothing harder than getting someone to engage with facts when those facts will challenge their outlook? f**k me, are we seeing that in spades these days.

Boomstick

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2155
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1972 on July 20, 2018, 10:43:36 am by Boomstick »
but it's all ifs and buts with you remoaners.
there are no solid facts of what may or may not happen.

It's automatically the worse case economic scenario, to argue your ideology.

I prefer to embrace it, ITS HAPPENING.
the sooner remoaners realise this and come on board, we will all benefit

moaning and throwing your toys out of the pram achieves nothing, and helps no one, it just makes it harder than it should be.

let's look forward and forge a new pathway without the ball and chain of the eu around out necks.

onwards and upwards, rule Britannia.


Glyn_Wigley

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 11963
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1973 on July 20, 2018, 10:45:06 am by Glyn_Wigley »
but it's all ifs and buts with you remoaners.
there are no solid facts of what may or may not happen.

It's automatically the worse case economic scenario, to argue your ideology.

I prefer to embrace it, ITS HAPPENING.
the sooner remoaners realise this and come on board, we will all benefit

moaning and throwing your toys out of the pram achieves nothing, and helps no one, it just makes it harder than it should be.

let's look forward and forge a new pathway without the ball and chain of the eu around out necks.

onwards and upwards, rule Britannia.



Well then, let's hear all of your solid facts about how much better off we're going to be. Economically.

DonnyOsmond

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 11136
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1974 on July 20, 2018, 10:47:41 am by DonnyOsmond »
Do I hate immigrants that much lol pretty pathetic bst really not once have I said I hate immigrants, just stick to living your life in your labour bubble bst, a pathetic comment, the answer to the rest of what you say is the minute we stand up and leave the talks are the time the eu will want to talk as a
No deal will cost them more than 500 billion

Just wondering, why did you vote for Brexit? Was it so the British government had more say on what goes on here? The British government that currently can't organise a piss up in a brewery and is too busy with all the in-fighting.

DonnyOsmond

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 11136
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1975 on July 20, 2018, 10:50:27 am by DonnyOsmond »
Ok then BPool. That was a deliberately provocative comment from me. But it’s because I’m very frustrated by this discussion.

What, precisely DO you think justifies your support for a no deal Brexit?
no deals better than a bad deal.
at least then we can forge alliances and partnerships with the commonwealth and rest of the world.
too insular and protectionist of the eu to deny us this.

remoaners care little about the economics, its purely down to their political beliefs.
it's like believing in Britain isn't allowed, and we need a big brother to help us.

f**k that, I'm excited of what the world has on offer.

Any deal is better than no deal.

Boomstick

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2155
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1976 on July 20, 2018, 11:02:23 am by Boomstick »
but it's all ifs and buts with you remoaners.
there are no solid facts of what may or may not happen.

It's automatically the worse case economic scenario, to argue your ideology.

I prefer to embrace it, ITS HAPPENING.
the sooner remoaners realise this and come on board, we will all benefit

moaning and throwing your toys out of the pram achieves nothing, and helps no one, it just makes it harder than it should be.

let's look forward and forge a new pathway without the ball and chain of the eu around out necks.

onwards and upwards, rule Britannia.



Well then, let's hear all of your solid facts about how much better off we're going to be. Economically.

I have none, just like you have no facts about us being worse.
this whole thread is just remoaners whinging.

all im saying is that it's happening, and the sooner everyone in on board, the sooner we all benefit.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 11:15:04 am by Boomstick »

RedJ

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 18491
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1977 on July 20, 2018, 11:12:30 am by RedJ »
Again, an astounding lack of substance.

Boomstick

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2155
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1978 on July 20, 2018, 11:14:30 am by Boomstick »
Again, an astounding lack of substance.
agreed, this whole thread is purely moaning and opinions

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36606
Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1979 on July 20, 2018, 11:25:33 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Boomstick

Pointless, I know, since you don’t engage with facts, but there are three really big established facts that HAVE happened as predicted after the vote.

1) The Pound dropped dramatically in value.
2) Inflation went up as a result.
3) GDP growth shrank, while the rest of the world was enjoying a boom.

2) means that we’ve all got poorer because prices have been rising faster than wages.

3) Means that we’ve missed out on a surge of wealth creation. As a result, we’re about £1000 per person poorer than we would have been if we’d seen the economic performance that France, Germany, USA, Holland, Australia etc have done since 2016.   


This aren’t opinions. Dipshit. They are established facts.

 

TinyPortal © 2005-2012