9th Dec

[RedJ]

So are you or are you not of the opinion that the league position of a team is nothing to do with its manager?

[The Red Baron]

I'd be less inclined to point the finger at the manager if I wasn't seeing the same problems costing us games.

[dickos1]

So are you or are you not of the opinion that the league position of a team is nothing to do with its manager?

Nope, but I'm not of the opinion that it's purely down to the manager. Just because I didn't want him in the first place

[Alan Southstand]

It's all well and good talking about changing the manager but who the hell do we get in? And, more importantly, who does the Board think they need? If the protracted search, that ended up getting DF in the first place, is repeated, then who amongst you all think that the process would be any different this time and achieve different results?

Personally, I think it's the last thing the Board wants or needs and there is no evidence that suggests otherwise. I have no idea what they were thinking before the season started and how those thoughts have changed since, but we'll get some idea when we see what happens in January. If we don't strengthen and with more experience, then the writing's on the wall. Then, they can rip up the 5 year plan and start again.

[drfchound]

Alan, to say "who would we get in" is a good reason for not changing a football club manager is laughable really.
How would we know who is available or who would apply ?
Maybe someone would come in and do a better job than DF (if it was to be the Rovers of course).

If we were bottom of the league would it still be a good reason not to sack DF because we dont know who would come in ?

[silent majority]

It's all well and good talking about changing the manager but who the hell do we get in? And, more importantly, who does the Board think they need? If the protracted search, that ended up getting DF in the first place, is repeated, then who amongst you all think that the process would be any different this time and achieve different results?

Personally, I think it's the last thing the Board wants or needs and there is no evidence that suggests otherwise. I have no idea what they were thinking before the season started and how those thoughts have changed since, but we'll get some idea when we see what happens in January. If we don't strengthen and with more experience, then the writing's on the wall. Then, they can rip up the 5 year plan and start again.

Why would you rip up a 5 year plan when you're only 2 years into it?

[Copps is Magic]

Depends when it started? In a few months its 2 and half years since Fergie took over. If you aren't at least reviewing it, you're doing something wrong.

[dickos1]

Depends what the plan was in the first place

[CrippyCooke]

It's all well and good talking about changing the manager but who the hell do we get in? And, more importantly, who does the Board think they need? If the protracted search, that ended up getting DF in the first place, is repeated, then who amongst you all think that the process would be any different this time and achieve different results?

Personally, I think it's the last thing the Board wants or needs and there is no evidence that suggests otherwise. I have no idea what they were thinking before the season started and how those thoughts have changed since, but we'll get some idea when we see what happens in January. If we don't strengthen and with more experience, then the writing's on the wall. Then, they can rip up the 5 year plan and start again.

Why would you rip up a 5 year plan when you're only 2 years into it?

Where did the board hope we'd be at the half-way point of this plan?

[Copps is Magic]

Depends what the plan was in the first place

Do you think it was to be 3 places lower than when we started?

[dickos1]

We're not even halfway through.
And we're actually 5 places higher than when Ferguson took charge of his first game

[knockers]

The clue is in the name. It's a five year plan!
Yes, some people don't like what they are watching all of the time but last year was great bar the last few games. Too many clubs change the manager every year. Let's stick with it and if we have failed to gain promotion to the championship at the end of it then we let him go.

[Copps is Magic]

We're not even halfway through.
And we're actually 5 places higher than when Ferguson took charge of his first game

2 places higher, actually.

Was that the plan?

[Copps is Magic]

The clue is in the name. It's a five year plan!
Yes, some people don't like what they are watching all of the time but last year was great bar the last few games. Too many clubs change the manager every year. Let's stick with it and if we have failed to gain promotion to the championship at the end of it then we let him go.

It was great while plan A was working. That is, free flowing, free scoring attacking football; that could gloss over conceding more than you'd prefer.

Now the scoring has abated the weaknesses, vulnerabilities have come to the fore. If it's a five year plan to get promoted to the championship and you're in the bottom tier of the football league with a year to go, then there's no point it being a five year plan. Hence, you review it regularly.

In my opinion, Ferguson has built a half decent squad, including some players of good age with good potential. But it consistently not getting the best out of them.

[dickos1]

We're not even halfway through.
And we're actually 5 places higher than when Ferguson took charge of his first game

2 places higher, actually.

Was that the plan?

18th now and 23rd before the Shrewsbury game which was his first game in charge

[dickos1]

Liam Holden tweeted this, a neutral! He's slagged off Ferguson before..

Seen some ludicrous reactions to yesterday’s defeat. If you couldn’t see further progress in that team yesterday, especially in 2nd half, then I don’t know what you were watching #drfc

[Copps is Magic]

It's become a common maxim hasn't it? The players are improving, we're improving. Pretty useless so much improvement with absolutely no quantifiable improvement by any measure, however much we split hairs over it.

[dickos1]

Well if you look over our last 6 games and compare with the previous 6 games you would see improvement

[Wild Rover]

That's a bit silly dickos ( unless over the 2nd set of 6 we played exactly the same teams as in the first set of 6) otherwise the end result ( improvement) cannot be measured.

[dickos1]

Doesn't need to be the same teams, were part of the same league so within a run of 6 games you'd get to play a good variety of good and bad sides.

A good marker of improvement would be the two Scunthorpe games

[drfchound]

As I recall, the five year plan was for us to be a sustainable Championship club, not to be promoted to the Championship in five years.

[Chris Black come back]

We are three points off the relegation places.

This does not represent any kind of progress in the last two years.

Lots of money put in by our generous owners, very little if anything in return.

Not nearly good enough given our significant resources, great season ticket sales and supportive supporter base.

[Wild Rover]

Doesn't need to be the same teams, were part of the same league so within a run of 6 games you'd get to play a good variety of good and bad sides.

A good marker of improvement would be the two Scunthorpe games

OK. Last 6 matches, if all were league ( against L1 opposition , Cant count ebbsfleet) would have yielded 8 points, previous 6 would have yielded 8 points.  Where is the improvement,

[anne honemous]

I think it's pretty irrelevant where we are on the 9th December to be honest

I agree with this.

It's a different season with different circumstances. By comparison we're very similar, but just because we capitulated after the New Year two seasons ago, doesn't mean we'll do the same again.

[dickos1]

Doesn't need to be the same teams, were part of the same league so within a run of 6 games you'd get to play a good variety of good and bad sides.

A good marker of improvement would be the two Scunthorpe games

OK. Last 6 matches, if all were league ( against L1 opposition , Cant count ebbsfleet) would have yielded 8 points, previous 6 would have yielded 8 points.  Where is the improvement,

You'd be counting the cup if we'd lost to Scunthorpe
I said last 6 games regardless of competition

[Wild Rover]

I did count Scunny.

Oxford 0 pts,Scunny3,Rochdale1,MKD3,Wigan0,fleetwood1 = 8pts.

Rotherham 1pt,Scun 1,Bury 3, Walsall 0, Portsmouth 3, Charlton 0 = 8pts.

I discounted Ebbsfleet though cos you said "Part of the same league".

Where is the improvement I ask again.

[dickos1]

I think there has, Scunthorpe best performance of the season, 2nd half v mk dons also up there. Very unlucky v oxford.

[Wild Rover]

There has not been any improvement in results, shown by (theoretical points gained ),performances maybe better, but not to any great degree.

I take it your improvement is centred on possession , but as has been proved time and again, its what you do with that possession that counts.

[drfchound]

I think there has, Scunthorpe best performance of the season, 2nd half v mk dons also up there. Very unlucky v oxford.

Some of the worst performances of the season in there though as well mate.
Wigan, Walsall, Fleetwood as well as first halves against MKD, Rotherham and Charlton.

[IDM]

This is getting a bit pointless now..

Despite what we may perceive as generally better performances, or not, the only stats that count are goals for and against and therefore the results and the table..

Remember the first 24 games of season 2008/9?  Rock bottom yet having played our best football for decades..

We can argue about stats and tweak which set of games we include to skew any argument but that ultimately makes bugger all difference..

We need to pick up points, regardless of performances..