Fergie Referrendum

[stuey]

Do we really have to suffer this type of post every time there is a defeat. He bloke took us up comfortably last year.

He also comfortably took us down the year before.

[dickos1]

As did Saunders but the same people are saying he is a hero

[steve@dcfd]

The strong differing opinions are remarkable on here some strongly blaming the manager and defending the board others strongly blaming the board and defending the manager, some strongly blaming the players,

Surely it is a bit of all these elements it's a bit weird to blame just one

Yet again it’s all about the manager who does have his faults yet if anybody dares to criticise the board and budget they are jumped upon.

Because your criticisms of the board and budget are based on guesswork and prejudice. Despite the bare facts staring you in the face, and the amount of times I've offered information contrary to your position, you still choose to blame the board and budget for our seeming demise.

Last season the current owners wrote off outstanding loans of £14m. This club is currently in the best financial health during the 50 years that I've been supporting them, yet for some reason known only to yourself it seems that that isn't good enough.

Martin I am not prejudiced again the board. I want to see more progress with better players at the club, to get them it is not just down to manager. You say the bare facts are staring me in the face. Could you please show me where I can read those facts.

[Campsall rover]

This manager has been given a competitive budget for this league.
It is up to him to spend it wisely. Has he? That’s up for debate.
Blaming the board is total nonesense. How many owners outside the Premiership have put their hands in their pockets to the level ours have using their own personal money. Not many I can tell you.
Most championship clubs are using parachute payments and or TV money.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. We are one of the best run clubs in the football league.

[dickos1]

Up until the recent injuries people were happy with results and performances. Since then everyone is going wild.
They can't seem to link the two

[steve@dcfd]

This manager has been given a competitive budget for this league.
It is up to him to spend it wisely. Has he? That’s up for debate.
Blaming the board is total nonesense. How many owners outside the Premiership have put their hands in their pockets to the level ours have using their own personal money. Not many I can tell you.
Most championship clubs are using parachute payments and or TV money.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. We are one of the best run clubs in the football league.

Where are the facts that show what our budget is. Is it competitive but we couldn’t sign a striker in the summer, we couldn’t sign a left sided centre half we haven’t signed a left sided midfield player.
The last time we were in League 1 it was 4m and that was below mid spending then. Is it more than that?

It was never planned to sign Houghton this season, we signed a loan player Whiteman which was not planned, but if we had not we would have had to bring in another player. It was a necessity.
We had to loan two centre halves but if we had not our predicament would have been worst than it is now. It was a necessity.

The budget we have also include players that we could not get rid of in the summer. You can’t tell me that the young players we have signed have cost the club money. So this season we signed Kiwomya and Andrews. The rest were loans.  Hardly spending the money un wisely.

[vaya]

This manager has been given a competitive budget for this league.
It is up to him to spend it wisely. Has he? That’s up for debate.
Blaming the board is total nonesense. How many owners outside the Premiership have put their hands in their pockets to the level ours have using their own personal money. Not many I can tell you.
Most championship clubs are using parachute payments and or TV money.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. We are one of the best run clubs in the football league.

Where are the facts that show what our budget is. Is it competitive but we couldn’t sign a striker in the summer, we couldn’t sign a left sided centre half we haven’t signed a left sided midfield player.
The last time we were in League 1 it was 4m and that was below mid spending then. Is it more than that?

It was never planned to sign Houghton this season, we signed a loan player Whiteman which was not planned, but if we had not we would have had to bring in another player. It was a necessity.
We had to loan two centre halves but if we had not our predicament would have been worst than it is now. It was a necessity.

The budget we have also include players that we could not get rid of in the summer. You can’t tell me that the young players we have signed have cost the club money. So this season we signed Kiwomya and Andrews. The rest were loans.  Hardly spending the money un wisely.

Kiwomya, Andrews, Mason, Whiteman, extended the contract of Marquis (which you said the board wouldn't do as they'd have to pay £8k a week for) extended Butler's contract. All loaded onto the wage bill. Irrespective of whether you think signing Whiteman or the centre backs was a necessity Steve, they still cost money.

[steve@dcfd]

Yaya forgot about Mason. But in the debate about Marquis I was asked by Martin what I thought we would pay per week I said I thought it would have to be about 8k?
Don’t think I ever said the board wouldn’t pay for his extension. We may have lost him therefore we would had to replace him. Which would have been more expensive for a league 1 proven striker.
I appreciate they cost money but we had to sign players otherwise we would be worse off. We have 19 fit players of so called league standard if we hadn’t signed those three we were in dire street. So they were a necessity.

[aidanstu]

Some would argue too comfortably we lost the last 4 costing the title

Some may argue we did well over the course of the 42 previous games prior to them 4

[aidanstu]

Do we really have to suffer this type of post every time there is a defeat. He bloke took us up comfortably last year.

You were not there on Tuesday quite clearly. If you were I would be flabbergasted at that comment!!!
It’s not the defeat or a draw,  I can always accept them as they will happen.
It’s the tacticts, formation and the level of performance we are concerned about.
In all my years of being a fan I have never had a rant like this before. There is a reason for it.
I am a very positive person always a glass half full person. I am only commenting on what I can see out on the field of play.
We have good players Yes we are short of 3 /4 quality players that would turn us into a promotion challenging team but no way should we be getting into a relegation scrap, it’s the manager and coach that’s the problem.

Be flabbergasted if you want, regardless of the result, formation or how we play I think the short term Thinking and “I want it now” culture of supporters and boards alike are part of what is killing the game for me.

[aidanstu]

Do we really have to suffer this type of post every time there is a defeat. He bloke took us up comfortably last year.

He also comfortably took us down the year before.

So surely if you were going to sack him it would have been at the end of that season? You sound like my misses when she throws something at me that I did 10 years ago just to win an argument.

[vaya]

Yaya forgot about Mason. But in the debate about Marquis I was asked by Martin what I thought we would pay per week I said I thought it would have to be about 8k?
Don’t think I ever said the board wouldn’t pay for his extension. We may have lost him therefore we would had to replace him. Which would have been more expensive for a league 1 proven striker.
I appreciate they cost money but we had to sign players otherwise we would be worse off. We have 19 fit players of so called league standard if we hadn’t signed those three we were in dire street. So they were a necessity.

Well if we've extended Marquis' contract it must be for around £8k a week Steve, otherwise it calls into question judgements you've made about the worth of other players, and subsequently the rest of the arguments you've made.

Undoubtedly the other three were a necessity Steve, but they still cost money irrespective of the motivation behind it.

What possibly wasn't a necessity with the loan market open though was to permanently sign one of them for a six-figure sum and load several year's worth of wages onto the playing budget.

[GazLaz]

If Marquis is on half that I’d be quite surprised.

[vaya]

If Marquis is on half that I’d be quite surprised.

I honestly don't know Gaz, I'm just going on what Steve believes are the requirements at this level are.

[Fur Calf]

All this about budgets and Marquis's salary are nonsense since only the owners and senior management will know exactly what the quantitive element of the budget is and the same with Marquis's salary.  Of course the club are going to say the budget is competitive as anything else would be counter productive but in any event what does competitive mean unless it is quantified.

[steve@dcfd]

Again I was a question my opinion that’s where the figure came from now he may not be on that. But the budgets of teams that where in the top six and hence promoted last season were at least twice our league 1 budget, the last time we were in the league. It may be not this year. But I am not privy to that information and facts. Strikers are an expensive commodity and will cost more especially if they had scored 26 goals the previous season.


As for Whiteman only time will tell if it was worth spending but we ought to able to buy are own players. Not just to rely on loans

[DonnyOsmond]

This manager has been given a competitive budget for this league.
It is up to him to spend it wisely. Has he? That’s up for debate.
Blaming the board is total nonesense. How many owners outside the Premiership have put their hands in their pockets to the level ours have using their own personal money. Not many I can tell you.
Most championship clubs are using parachute payments and or TV money.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. We are one of the best run clubs in the football league.

Where are the facts that show what our budget is. Is it competitive but we couldn’t sign a striker in the summer, we couldn’t sign a left sided centre half we haven’t signed a left sided midfield player.
The last time we were in League 1 it was 4m and that was below mid spending then. Is it more than that?

It was never planned to sign Houghton this season, we signed a loan player Whiteman which was not planned, but if we had not we would have had to bring in another player. It was a necessity.
We had to loan two centre halves but if we had not our predicament would have been worst than it is now. It was a necessity.

The budget we have also include players that we could not get rid of in the summer. You can’t tell me that the young players we have signed have cost the club money. So this season we signed Kiwomya and Andrews. The rest were loans.  Hardly spending the money un wisely.

That 4 million was 12th highest which is either mid or top half. It isn't below mid, unless you're shit maths.

[dickos1]

We signed kiwomya in the summer, we didn't need another centre half, or a left sided midfield player

[steve@dcfd]

This manager has been given a competitive budget for this league.
It is up to him to spend it wisely. Has he? That’s up for debate.
Blaming the board is total nonesense. How many owners outside the Premiership have put their hands in their pockets to the level ours have using their own personal money. Not many I can tell you.
Most championship clubs are using parachute payments and or TV money.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. We are one of the best run clubs in the football league.

Where are the facts that show what our budget is. Is it competitive but we couldn’t sign a striker in the summer, we couldn’t sign a left sided centre half we haven’t signed a left sided midfield player.
The last time we were in League 1 it was 4m and that was below mid spending then. Is it more than that?

It was never planned to sign Houghton this season, we signed a loan player Whiteman which was not planned, but if we had not we would have had to bring in another player. It was a necessity.
We had to loan two centre halves but if we had not our predicament would have been worst than it is now. It was a necessity.

The budget we have also include players that we could not get rid of in the summer. You can’t tell me that the young players we have signed have cost the club money. So this season we signed Kiwomya and Andrews. The rest were loans.  Hardly spending the money un wisely.

That 4 million was 12th highest which is either mid or top half. It isn't below mid, unless you're shit maths.

Having double checked the charts I saw you are right it was 12th, where do we stand this season?

[vaya]

Again I was a question my opinion that’s where the figure came from now he may not be on that. But the budgets of teams that where in the top six and hence promoted last season were at least twice our league 1 budget, the last time we were in the league. It may be not this year. But I am not privy to that information and facts. Strikers are an expensive commodity and will cost more especially if they had scored 26 goals the previous season.


As for Whiteman only time will tell if it was worth spending but we ought to able to buy are own players. Not just to rely on loans

Steve, most teams in League One have loan players. The last time we were promoted out of this League, we had loans.
Irrespective of if you or I think Whiteman is/will be worth it, the club has still made the financial commitment and bought him.

[vaya]

This manager has been given a competitive budget for this league.
It is up to him to spend it wisely. Has he? That’s up for debate.
Blaming the board is total nonesense. How many owners outside the Premiership have put their hands in their pockets to the level ours have using their own personal money. Not many I can tell you.
Most championship clubs are using parachute payments and or TV money.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. We are one of the best run clubs in the football league.

Where are the facts that show what our budget is. Is it competitive but we couldn’t sign a striker in the summer, we couldn’t sign a left sided centre half we haven’t signed a left sided midfield player.
The last time we were in League 1 it was 4m and that was below mid spending then. Is it more than that?

It was never planned to sign Houghton this season, we signed a loan player Whiteman which was not planned, but if we had not we would have had to bring in another player. It was a necessity.
We had to loan two centre halves but if we had not our predicament would have been worst than it is now. It was a necessity.

The budget we have also include players that we could not get rid of in the summer. You can’t tell me that the young players we have signed have cost the club money. So this season we signed Kiwomya and Andrews. The rest were loans.  Hardly spending the money un wisely.

That 4 million was 12th highest which is either mid or top half. It isn't below mid, unless you're shit maths.

Having double checked the charts I saw you are right it was 12th, where do we stand this season?

Steve if you don't know where we stand this season, then you're not really in a position to question the relative size of the budget.

With all due respect, you're effectively admitting you've no idea what you're talking about.

[Wild Rover]

Currently I think DF should stay in charge, should he fail at end of season it should be "goodbye" IF suitable replacement can be sourced. I personally think only 1 candidate is approachable ( he is currently employed ) Michael Appleton.

[steve@dcfd]

This manager has been given a competitive budget for this league.
It is up to him to spend it wisely. Has he? That’s up for debate.
Blaming the board is total nonesense. How many owners outside the Premiership have put their hands in their pockets to the level ours have using their own personal money. Not many I can tell you.
Most championship clubs are using parachute payments and or TV money.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. We are one of the best run clubs in the football league.

Where are the facts that show what our budget is. Is it competitive but we couldn’t sign a striker in the summer, we couldn’t sign a left sided centre half we haven’t signed a left sided midfield player.
The last time we were in League 1 it was 4m and that was below mid spending then. Is it more than that?

It was never planned to sign Houghton this season, we signed a loan player Whiteman which was not planned, but if we had not we would have had to bring in another player. It was a necessity.
We had to loan two centre halves but if we had not our predicament would have been worst than it is now. It was a necessity.

The budget we have also include players that we could not get rid of in the summer. You can’t tell me that the young players we have signed have cost the club money. So this season we signed Kiwomya and Andrews. The rest were loans.  Hardly spending the money un wisely.

That 4 million was 12th highest which is either mid or top half. It isn't below mid, unless you're shit maths.

Having double checked the charts I saw you are right it was 12th, where do we stand this season?

Steve if you don't know where we stand this season, then you're not really in a position to question the relative size of the budget.

With all due respect, you're effectively admitting you've no idea what you're talking about.

Yaya where are the facts that show me where we stand, I can only go on what has been said that we have a competitive budget some have said a top 8 budget.

[silent majority]

Steve,

I'm not sure what list you have had sight of but the figures you are quoting for budgets in LG1 are miles out. Any idea who put that list together?

As for the budget for this season it was stated by David Blunt at the last Meet the Owners that we had a 'competitive budget'. That has since been confirmed at a Supporters Board meeting and was also confirmed to myself by representatives  of the EFL when we discussed the topic. Budgets, and the changes to them throughout the season, are communicated to all clubs anonymously at regular periods throughout the season. If you know enough people in football you can soon work out who is where on that list. The only definitive way to confirm that is to wait for each club to produce their annual accounts and see it in black and white, which is something we have done with DRFC for a number of years now.

[The Red Baron]

There's a lot of nonsense talked about budgets IMO. Accrington Stanley have (I believe) the second smallest playing budget in League Two. They are currently second in the table.

[vaya]

This manager has been given a competitive budget for this league.
It is up to him to spend it wisely. Has he? That’s up for debate.
Blaming the board is total nonesense. How many owners outside the Premiership have put their hands in their pockets to the level ours have using their own personal money. Not many I can tell you.
Most championship clubs are using parachute payments and or TV money.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. We are one of the best run clubs in the football league.

Where are the facts that show what our budget is. Is it competitive but we couldn’t sign a striker in the summer, we couldn’t sign a left sided centre half we haven’t signed a left sided midfield player.
The last time we were in League 1 it was 4m and that was below mid spending then. Is it more than that?

It was never planned to sign Houghton this season, we signed a loan player Whiteman which was not planned, but if we had not we would have had to bring in another player. It was a necessity.
We had to loan two centre halves but if we had not our predicament would have been worst than it is now. It was a necessity.

The budget we have also include players that we could not get rid of in the summer. You can’t tell me that the young players we have signed have cost the club money. So this season we signed Kiwomya and Andrews. The rest were loans.  Hardly spending the money un wisely.

That 4 million was 12th highest which is either mid or top half. It isn't below mid, unless you're shit maths.

Having double checked the charts I saw you are right it was 12th, where do we stand this season?

Steve if you don't know where we stand this season, then you're not really in a position to question the relative size of the budget.

With all due respect, you're effectively admitting you've no idea what you're talking about.

Yaya where are the facts that show me where we stand, I can only go on what has been said that we have a competitive budget some have said a top 8 budget.

Steve, all I've done is outline what the club's done. I've no idea what the budget is, then again as you've just admitted, neither do you which means you can't really critisise the size of it.

[dickos1]

There's a lot of nonsense talked about budgets IMO. Accrington Stanley have (I believe) the second smallest playing budget in League Two. They are currently second in the table.

Don't be saying that to "chris black come back"

[steve@dcfd]

Martin there was bar charts I have seen last week on Twitter they football league endorsed.

On those lists it was 2015/16 for league 1 and 2016/17

On that list

Sheff United had a budget of 11m

Millwall 9m


In 2015 / 2016

We had 4m in about 12th place although there were other teams with the same.

Wigan and Sheff United were top with 10m.

I should have saved it then I could have sent it to you.

[silent majority]

Is this the work of Kieran, otherwise known as Swiss Ramble?

[essexrover]

I think the squad we have should comfortably stay up in this league. Therefore the fact that we are struggling a bit focuses attention on the manager, the style of play,formations etc & on that basis Fergie is failing.
When Dickov got sacked we were 17th, therefore we are only one place better off after all this time (there was also an interim manager of  course in between Dickov & Fergie).Let's not forget he wanted to be judged when he had HIS team. Well he has now. So he's failing,sadly.
Losing three centre backs all at once is a bit of a disaster which nobody could predict & it would be a set back for anybody, but that aside I'm not happy that he's our manager, but I don't like changing unless absolutely essential.
I think go at the end of this season, regardless of whether we stay up or not.