Safe Standing

[GazLaz]

West Brom have had a proposal to introduce safe standing rejected by the government.

[silent majority]

West Brom have had a proposal to introduce safe standing rejected by the government.

The application has been sat on Tracey Crouch's desk since last November. Its now been formally rejected, despite getting support from the Police, the local SAG and the SGSA, without any apparent reason for doing so.

[RedJ]

Must be safer to stand up at a game in Scotland than it is here.

[GazLaz]

West Brom have had a proposal to introduce safe standing rejected by the government.

The application has been sat on Tracey Crouch's desk since last November. Its now been formally rejected, despite getting support from the Police, the local SAG and the SGSA, without any apparent reason for doing so.

Martin, are you saying our government don’t listen to experts when dealing with important matters?? I can’t believe that for a minute!

[silent majority]

West Brom have had a proposal to introduce safe standing rejected by the government.

The application has been sat on Tracey Crouch's desk since last November. Its now been formally rejected, despite getting support from the Police, the local SAG and the SGSA, without any apparent reason for doing so.

Martin, are you saying our government don’t listen to experts when dealing with important matters?? I can’t believe that for a minute!

Yep. She said she would look at it again once the results of the inquests were in. So everybody has sat and waited for her and she's done absolutely nothing.

[GazLaz]

West Brom have had a proposal to introduce safe standing rejected by the government.

The application has been sat on Tracey Crouch's desk since last November. Its now been formally rejected, despite getting support from the Police, the local SAG and the SGSA, without any apparent reason for doing so.

Martin, are you saying our government don’t listen to experts when dealing with important matters?? I can’t believe that for a minute!

Yep. She said she would look at it again once the results of the inquests were in. So everybody has sat and waited for her and she's done absolutely nothing.

The government have done the same after speaking to experts about how many police officers were needed to keep London under control. They still went ahead and cut the force and look what’s happening now!

[Bristol Red Rover]

Must be safer to stand up at a game in Scotland than it is here.

Until they bring in heated seating that's certainly the case 

[Bristol Red Rover]

Another petition on this - every little helps 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207040

[silent majority]

To suggest that we 'pop up' every 5 years or so and mention Safe Standing is a nonsense. Campaigns don't work like that. 98% of this campaign has been fought behind closed doors and continues to do so.

The revamped Green Guide is due out shortly and major changes to standing accommodation and Rail seating is included in that. We're expecting 2 more EFL clubs to announce their plans for standing very shortly.

[The Red Baron]

West Brom have had a proposal to introduce safe standing rejected by the government.

The application has been sat on Tracey Crouch's desk since last November. Its now been formally rejected, despite getting support from the Police, the local SAG and the SGSA, without any apparent reason for doing so.

You would have thought West Brom was a good club at which to bring it in. No real history of hooliganism and likely to be in the Championship next season. Seems a huge missed opportunity.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It also suggests that standing is fine in the lower leagues but not the top ones. Which is frankly ridiculous.

They just need to bring in safe standing.

[silent majority]

It also suggests that standing is fine in the lower leagues but not the top ones. Which is frankly ridiculous.

They just need to bring in safe standing.

There is no logic to this at all Andy, which is why its been such a difficult campaign.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

They can't keep ignoring it. Pressure will mount as evidence grows to show Safe Standing is just that and is preferable to the standing we have in seats that we see every week in the Leagues.

Quite ironic as outdated accommodation like Leppings Lane at Hillsborough is allowed to stay given the narrow walkways and concourses etc, and where it all started.

[selby]

   The recent crowd welcome by the Liverpool fans will not have helped any government thinking on football crowds.

[silent majority]

They can't keep ignoring it. Pressure will mount as evidence grows to show Safe Standing is just that and is preferable to the standing we have in seats that we see every week in the Leagues.

Quite ironic as outdated accommodation like Leppings Lane at Hillsborough is allowed to stay given the narrow walkways and concourses etc, and where it all started.

Its not about safety any more though Baz, we won that argument a long time ago. Everybody accepts that there no statistics that prove the argument one way or the other, much to the governments consternation. The SGSA, the body that  is charged with ensuring safety in all stadiums throughout the UK, accepts that the rail system will be of a tremendous benefit and has advised government of that. No, this is politics, pure and simple.

[RedJ]

   The recent crowd welcome by the Liverpool fans will not have helped any government thinking on football crowds.

Shouldn't make a difference, it was f**k all to do with the inside of the stadium.

[selby]

   No home secretary will take the plunge and allow it, they do not want to be the person tarred with the brush of being the one who let a death happen at a  football game because of crowd trouble.
  Its politics, nothing to do with football, and RedJ if you don't think that after all this time making a decision, the announcement just after the Liverpool trouble last week has no bearing on it, and the fact that they can say look at that, would not be used to vindicate the decision, you don't know politicians.
 

[silent majority]

   No home secretary will take the plunge and allow it, they do not want to be the person tarred with the brush of being the one who let a death happen at a  football game because of crowd trouble.
  Its politics, nothing to do with football, and RedJ if you don't think that after all this time making a decision, the announcement just after the Liverpool trouble last week has no bearing on it, and the fact that they can say look at that, would not be used to vindicate the decision, you don't know politicians.
 

You're nearly there Selby! But why connect standing and football violence? There is no connection, nor is there any evidence that suggests that increasing standing areas has anything other than a positive effect.

[scawsby steve]

Spot on, RedJ and Martin. Violence outside the ground has f*ck all to do with safe standing.

[selby]

   The next time we have a match, and someone posts that there was trouble in town, or in Hyde Park area we can say it's nothing to do with us then.
  Which it probably is not, but is always linked to our home game, if there is trouble on a match day by the press.
   I have no problem with standing at football games, The English Parliament has, other sports such as rugby, horse racing, and cricket that have a drinks problem is tolerated, football is one of the few sports that is a net contributor to the exchequer, the more we pay the more VAT is collected, thousands of cheap standing spectators is not in their interests, and controlling large crowds suits their " we are strong on law and order".
   And as I said, no politician wants to be the one who, if standing proves to be a problem, have the finger pointed at them at a later date for reintroducing it to football grounds.

[Chris Black come back]

Quite something that Celtic (which has one of he biggest grounds in the UK and is always full) can safely operate this, but not the much smaller English grounds?

[selby]

  Chris, the responsibility comes under a different government, who are willing to take the risk.
    It was a flagship policy of Maggie, which was seen as a success, so a Conservative government will be reluctant to introduce standing areas no matter what.
    I was brought up in an era when it was normal to switch ends at Belle Vue at half time, I was in a large crowd as a 11yr old against Tottenham in the cup, and have never had any problems.
   But I have also been at Celtic and Rangers, Celtic and Leeds, Leeds and Liverpool, Leeds and Chelsea and they were not the greatest experience  I have had watching football.

[scawsby steve]

  Chris, the responsibility comes under a different government, who are willing to take the risk.
    It was a flagship policy of Maggie, which was seen as a success, so a Conservative government will be reluctant to introduce standing areas no matter what.
    I was brought up in an era when it was normal to switch ends at Belle Vue at half time, I was in a large crowd as a 11yr old against Tottenham in the cup, and have never had any problems.
   But I have also been at Celtic and Rangers, Celtic and Leeds, Leeds and Liverpool, Leeds and Chelsea and they were not the greatest experience  I have had watching football.

Totally different thing then to what is being proposed now, Brian. In those days we regularly had crowd surges at big games, which were terrifying; with the new safe standing, there is a handrail the full length of each row, making it utterly impossible for a crowd surge to occur.

[RedJ]

   The next time we have a match, and someone posts that there was trouble in town, or in Hyde Park area we can say it's nothing to do with us then.

I'm struggling so go on, tell me how on earth this is anything to do with safe standing.

[selby]

   I am totally in favour of safe standing at football games for those who want to, I am pointing out the reasons why you will only bang your head against a brick wall to get it reinstated in English football.
  It is probably a generation thing in government, the older M Ps will not go back on all seater, perhaps in ten years there may be a chance.
  But the top six teams with their stadiums, no chance. Arsenal take £1.25 million a home game, Spurs will do the same, and Chelsea are going to follow suit.

[Brian Young]

I can’t under stand why .Perhaps it should be trialed in Championship.

[silent majority]

   I am totally in favour of safe standing at football games for those who want to, I am pointing out the reasons why you will only bang your head against a brick wall to get it reinstated in English football.
  It is probably a generation thing in government, the older M Ps will not go back on all seater, perhaps in ten years there may be a chance.
  But the top six teams with their stadiums, no chance. Arsenal take £1.25 million a home game, Spurs will do the same, and Chelsea are going to follow suit.

I think you'd be wrong there Selby. As one of the members of the safe standing committee I do have a better understanding than most, so, I bet it happens within the next 18 months or so. Tracey Crouch going back on her promises has galvanised the campaign and the behind the scenes stuff is red hot at the moment.

Spurs have also designed their new stadium to accept rail seating and they will be pushing very hard to see that implemented, as will the rest of the EPL.  The EFL, and the FA, have already gone public on their support for SS. Quite a number of MP's have too, the Lib Dems have it in their manifesto, as do the Welsh Conservatives. It will happen a lot quicker than you think.

[selby]

   I bow to your greater Knowledge S.M. but I will not hold my breath, As you say not for the first time in government someone has gone back on promises probably says it all, who put the pressure on her and why?

[silent majority]

   I bow to your greater Knowledge S.M. but I will not hold my breath, As you say not for the first time in government someone has gone back on promises probably says it all, who put the pressure on her and why?

I certainly wouldn't do that Selby, I've got the timing wrong on numerous occasions!! I wouldn't have thought anybody put pressure on her, but we did have confidence when she was appointed. For the first time in years we had somebody who understood the game and was a football supporter. TC played football, is a qualified coach and supports a PL side, not sure who, it could well be Spurs. We expected big things from her, she pushed through the reforms on fan engagement etc. In meetings she has been non-committal either way, but this is a serious misjudgement on her part, all the key players had just lined up in support and she ducked out when it mattered.

[Chris Black come back]

To the above post(s) - I know the backdrop is emotional and political but while the case studies that are always brought up about Germany can easily be dismissed by those in power, it is impossible to dismiss that one part of this country permits safe standing, and another will not.

Madness!