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Author Topic: Rank em  (Read 8758 times)

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RedJ

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #30 on June 08, 2018, 08:40:32 pm by RedJ »
Or if Dickov wasn't w*nk.
Well, it was kind of implied that if he wasn't a w**k manager he would've had the nous to have picked up the one point necessary to survive...
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 08:46:48 pm by RedJ »



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drfchound

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #31 on June 08, 2018, 08:44:26 pm by drfchound »
Well, it was kind of implied that if he wasn't a w**k manager he would've had the nous to have picked up the one point necessary to survive...




That could be applied to our recent manager and we would have won L2, going on similar logic.

All ifs and buts mate.

RedJ

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #32 on June 08, 2018, 08:46:23 pm by RedJ »
That was in response to pib, again I'd not seen there was a second page before posting. :laugh:

edited now

pib

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #33 on June 08, 2018, 08:46:52 pm by pib »
Well, it was kind of implied that if he wasn't a w**k manager he would've had the nous to have picked up the one point necessary to survive...

I know mate - was more of a response to some of the defendants of him before, just nicked your wording.

Some of the performances under Dickov were utterly embarrassing. Whether he came close to surviving in the Championship or not, he was utterly useless. The fact that an equally calamitous manager in Lee Clark kept his team up instead, thanks to the goals of a player that Dickov shipped out, is probably a decent enough summary.

His signings were shocking as well and played a big part in us ending up in League Two.

FWIW, Brian Flynn wasn't great either. I certainly wouldn't regard him as the "hero" of our promotion. I think we went up in spite of him rather than because of him, and it'd probably have been sewn up long before Brentford away if he hadn't been put in charge.

RedJ

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #34 on June 08, 2018, 08:48:11 pm by RedJ »
Lee Clark. Christ, there's a fraud!

Weird thing is, Dickov brought in some decent players in the Championship with the likes of Lucas Neill, Federico Macheda etc, but had no idea what he was doing. Shame really.

sheffield exile1

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #35 on June 08, 2018, 08:51:15 pm by sheffield exile1 »
For me it's SO'D followed by Penney with the rest nowhere. Rob Jones was mainly responsible for the 2012-13 promotion, though as captain and a leader in the dressing room rather than as a manager.

Spot on for me....

chrisd_123

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #36 on June 08, 2018, 09:15:53 pm by chrisd_123 »
On this, something that does become apparent is that we should be a club that managers actively look at when the job comes up.

The fact we've only had 6 permanent managers in 15/16 years is staggering in this day and age.

Surely managers would look at it as a chance to show their worth at a club who don't sack managers left, right and centre.

I remember as a kid reading in a football magazine in 1978 that we’d had more managerssince the war than any other English club. 23 I think it was in 43 years.

We had excellent stability with Penney and O’Driscoll - 2 managers in 11 years. But since then we’ve reverted to type - the new man will be the 5th manager in less than 7 years.

The problem with modern football is that 5 in 7 years is still reasonably good!

Keeping in mind that Saunders was poached, Flynn was never going to be long term and Fergie walked, we’ve only sacked one of those in Dickov. Yeah you could say we sacked Flynn but we just didn’t extend his contract.

RedJ

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #37 on June 08, 2018, 09:51:46 pm by RedJ »
We did extend Flynn's contract though. He was just given a different role at the club, he became director of football or something like that.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #38 on June 08, 2018, 10:06:53 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
He clearly wasn’t Pib, given where he’d managed to get us to with 6-7 matches remaining and taking into account the relentless injury crisis that we had all season.

Chris Black come back

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #39 on June 08, 2018, 10:53:14 pm by Chris Black come back »
SOD and actually not too far behind is Penney. Really liked those years.

Dickov. There is no way of avoiding that the DREADFUL football aside, he almost did the impossible and kept us up in the Championship, with likely the smallest budget that season and without himself having managed a single minute at that level previously. Strangely he was worse in League One than the much tougher Championship.

Very odd. Also very bad. Mainly bad.

DonnyOsmond

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #40 on June 08, 2018, 11:08:26 pm by DonnyOsmond »
Sean O'Driscoll
Dave Penney
Darren Ferguson
Brian Flynn & Dean Saunders

These four/five are a cut above Dickov because when they took us over to when they left they've all improved us as a team and/or as a football club. SOD and Penney obvious reasons. Flynn and Saunders, I've added them together because it was 90% the same team, Saunders was left between a rock and a hard place in the Championship with the experiment but managed to build a squad to challenge for League One and get us on the right tracks which Flynn finished off. Fergie, obviously what's been mentioned of the work he's done behind the scenes and despite the relegation we do have a better squad now than when he started, the age of the team has been massively reduced and we have a fair few sellable assets.

Paul Dickov -
The only manager to take us back recently. Took over a team that did need some TLC to do well in the Championship but signed some quality players to do that in Duffy, Turnbull, Khumalo, Meite, Wellens, Forrester, Sharp, Macheda and Tamas and we got relegated. He them signed a load of OAP mercenaries and turned us into a bottom half League One team.

He somehow turned Sharp into a bad striker aswell.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 11:11:41 pm by DonnyOsmond »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #41 on June 08, 2018, 11:14:29 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Or if Dickov had just parked the bus in one of the final seven games rather than insist on going for the win in every match...





Hindsight eh mate.


Not really. Some of us were saying it at the time. Taking off Keegan and putting on a crocked Wellens in the last 20 mins of the final home game against Reading, and chucking away a point (with the goal that put Reading in front coming from a run past a totally immobile Wellens) was f**king stupid.

That point would have kept us up. And like I say, some of us were pointing that out at the time. Sometimes in football you play percentage. You don’t always go balls out. Or if you do, you most likely get your balls badly hurt.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #42 on June 08, 2018, 11:30:56 pm by Bentley Bullet »
You can blame Dickov all you like but the officials sent us down that season. We were cheated throughout the campaign, right through to the last game when Leicester were awarded a penalty following Husband's outside of the area tackle.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #43 on June 08, 2018, 11:45:18 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I don’t normally go for the “blame the officials” game. I reckon bad decisions even out in the long run and officials are generally honest but fallible. But there’s no question that we got some shockers that season. The penalty at Watford that was a foot outside the box. The roundhouse kick on our player (forget who it was) in the box at QPR which was the most stonewall penalty there has been since the f**king game began - except it was turned down. The two-footed assault on our player that led to Ipswich’s late winner at Portman Road which the red walked away from.

The most telling moment for me. The one that demonstrated clearly a ref who had preconceived ideas. Home game vs QPR. We went one down in the first half. Charlie Austin spent an eternity bating the home fans and it must have been 90 seconds between the goal and us kicking off. Ref said not a word.

We equalised in the second half. Rovers players celebrated at the South Stand end. Ref went straight in telling them to get back to the half way line. At 1-1, we were battering QPR. Their keeper was taking an age over every goal kick. Not a word said to him. Our keeper ONCE took the ball from one side of the goal to the other to take a goal kick and the ref booked him for time wasting.

It was so obvious. The ref has decided that QPR would be going for the win and we’d be hanging on. He’d decided that we would be the time wasters, not QPR. And he totally ignored the evidence in front of him and made pre-conceived decisions.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 12:17:03 am by BillyStubbsTears »

pib

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #44 on June 09, 2018, 12:46:44 am by pib »
He clearly wasn’t Pib, given where he’d managed to get us to with 6-7 matches remaining and taking into account the relentless injury crisis that we had all season.

OK - you're entitled to your opinion of course. I watched a lot of Rovers that year though (with my eyes) and it was plain that Dickov didn't really have a clue what he was doing. He took over a side that had just won promotion and we had some pretty decent players who could hold their own at that time.

I'll admit - some games weren't bad and we looked pretty good. But for the most part we were dreadful. It was obvious watching us we had no identity, no discernible style. It was management by "throw a load of shit at the wall and hope some of it sticks" and sometimes it did, but mostly it didn't. We were pathetic away from home and probably had more games that season where we failed to create a real chance than any other Rovers season I've seen.

We scored the 2nd fewest goals in the division (Yeovil scored more!) and only 2 teams have scored fewer in the Championship since. I'm not saying I expected us to go up and take the Championship by storm (or even necessarily stay up) but we just looked completely rudderless to me.

Then when we went back into League One it just got worse. Terrible signings, awful clueless performances and the start of a tailspin that saw us go down again. I can't believe the bloke lasted as long as he did in the job.

And just to throw another factor in... look at what he did in management before DRFC, and look at what he's done since.

RoversAlias

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #45 on June 09, 2018, 01:06:39 am by RoversAlias »
Dickov never should've been manager here but I'll tell you what, he always came across like a nice bloke.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #46 on June 09, 2018, 01:26:15 am by Bentley Bullet »
Dickov never should've been manager here but I'll tell you what, he always came across like a nice bloke.

Wasn't he a nice bloke?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #47 on June 09, 2018, 01:27:58 am by BillyStubbsTears »
He clearly wasn’t Pib, given where he’d managed to get us to with 6-7 matches remaining and taking into account the relentless injury crisis that we had all season.

OK - you're entitled to your opinion of course. I watched a lot of Rovers that year though (with my eyes) and it was plain that Dickov didn't really have a clue what he was doing. He took over a side that had just won promotion and we had some pretty decent players who could hold their own at that time.

I'll admit - some games weren't bad and we looked pretty good. But for the most part we were dreadful. It was obvious watching us we had no identity, no discernible style. It was management by "throw a load of shit at the wall and hope some of it sticks" and sometimes it did, but mostly it didn't. We were pathetic away from home and probably had more games that season where we failed to create a real chance than any other Rovers season I've seen.

We scored the 2nd fewest goals in the division (Yeovil scored more!) and only 2 teams have scored fewer in the Championship since. I'm not saying I expected us to go up and take the Championship by storm (or even necessarily stay up) but we just looked completely rudderless to me.

Then when we went back into League One it just got worse. Terrible signings, awful clueless performances and the start of a tailspin that saw us go down again. I can't believe the bloke lasted as long as he did in the job.

And just to throw another factor in... look at what he did in management before DRFC, and look at what he's done since.
Pib

Jones
Khumalo
Tamas
Wellens
Wabara
Husband
Turnbull
Forrester
Woods
Macheda
McCombe
Robinson


That’s a dozen players off the top of my head who had long term injury problems in 13/14.

What Dickov was doing was having to constantly fill in the gaps left by those injuries.

You wanted Copacabana football. You wanted a flood of goals. Grand. So did I. But I was also aware of that injury context. And given that, I would have been happy for us to survive playing with ten men on the goal line.


Bentley Bullet

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #48 on June 09, 2018, 01:40:57 am by Bentley Bullet »
......And we very nearly did, until that f**king 'penalty' award at Leicester.

RoversAlias

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #49 on June 09, 2018, 02:47:23 am by RoversAlias »
Dickov never should've been manager here but I'll tell you what, he always came across like a nice bloke.

Wasn't he a nice bloke?

You've got me Bentley. I realised my wording error after posting but couldn't be bothered to correct it!

dickos1

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #50 on June 09, 2018, 07:14:34 am by dickos1 »
We were 3rd when Saunders left and finished winning the title.
Average points per game under Saunders that year was 1.88 after he left the average points  per game was 1.76.
Over a season that’s a difference of 5 points.
Flynn improved our home Home dramatically if I recall correctly but our away from dropped off

idler

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #51 on June 09, 2018, 09:53:51 am by idler »
I thought that at the time Dickov wanted to keep Macheda and the board brought Billy Sharp back.
Dickov got blamed for not playing to Billy's strengths but to be fair he either wasn't fully fit or he had something on his mind. He's never looked like that before or since. Arguably Macheda playing for us may have scored more plus denying Birmingham his goals. We were also doing well against Birmingham until James Husband dithered with the ball on the edge of our area. They then brought on Zigic and targeted Copps at right back twice for two more goals.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #52 on June 09, 2018, 09:55:50 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Your numbers are wrong by some way Dickos. Easy enough to check. There’s a whole internet out there.

Saunders left us on 7 Jan 2013. We were second in the table, level on points with Tranmere and behind on GD. We had 50 points from 26 games. That’s 1.92 ppg.
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-one/07-january-2013/

We ended up with 84 points from 46 games.
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-one/2013/

So Flynn won 34 points from 20 games. 1.7ppg.

The difference equates to 10 points over a season. Saunders’s record was automatic promotion/top of the table form. Flynn’s was mid-play off form.

We won the title because
a) Tranmere imploded.
b) None of the sides immediately below us when Saunders left had a strong run in.
c) The outstanding form team during Flynn’s tenure was coming from a long way back.

It’s unarguable Dickos. Saunders had us in a very strong position. Flynn came within a gnat’s knacker of f**king it up and was saved by the most Hollywood-esque season finale that has happened in the history of football.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 09:59:13 am by BillyStubbsTears »

drfchound

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #53 on June 09, 2018, 09:57:02 am by drfchound »
 
I thought that at the time Dickov wanted to keep Macheda and the board brought Billy Sharp back.
Dickov got blamed for not playing to Billy's strengths but to be fair he either wasn't fully fit or he had something on his mind. He's never looked like that before or since. Arguably Macheda playing for us may have scored more plus denying Birmingham his goals. We were also doing well against Birmingham until James Husband dithered with the ball on the edge of our area. They then brought on Zigic and targeted Copps at right back twice for two more goals.





I always thought it was funny that Dickov got blamed for Sharps ineffectiveness.

Chris Black come back

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #54 on June 09, 2018, 09:59:40 am by Chris Black come back »
Your numbers are wrong by some way Dickos. Easy enough to check. There’s a whole internet out there.

Saunders left us on 7 Jan 2013. We were second in the table, level on points with Tranmere and behind on GD. We had 50 points from 26 games. That’s 1.92 ppg.
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-one/07-january-2013/

We ended up with 84 points from 46 games.
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-one/2013/

So Flynn won 34 points from 20 games. 1.7ppg.

The difference equates to 10 points over a season. Saunders’s record was automatic promotion/top of the table form. Flynn’s was mid-play off form.

We won the title because
a) Tranmere imploded.
b) None of the side’s immediately below us when Saunders left had a strong run in.
c) The outstanding form team during Flynn’s tenure was coming from a long way back.

It’s unarguable Dickos. Saunders had us in a very strong position. Flynn came within a gnat’s knacker of f**king it up and was saved by the most Hollywood-esque season finale that has happened in the history of football.

You are going to get nowhere using facts and evidence to persuade some folk on here.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #55 on June 09, 2018, 10:07:58 am by BillyStubbsTears »
I never did understand what folk were talking about that season by “playing to Sharp’s strengths”. Sharp was f**king awful in late 2013/14 and was a big part of the reason we went down. He was moody and petulant. He stupidly got himself sent off at Brighton and left us very short of cover over the next three games (which were not the hardest of the season, but from which we picked up only 1 point). He offered next to nothing in the run-in games and should have been dropped long before he finally was for the last game of the season.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #56 on June 09, 2018, 10:08:48 am by BillyStubbsTears »
CBCB. I know. But it’s a weakness of mine to check facts before giving an opinion. I know it’ll never catch on.

Chris Black come back

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #57 on June 09, 2018, 10:22:10 am by Chris Black come back »
He was not fit when he arrived. Sharp being Sharp he pushed hard on accelerator when engine was f**ked and as a result made himself worse. Never quite looked himself but we could not take risk of dropping him.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #58 on June 09, 2018, 10:36:04 am by BillyStubbsTears »
I don’t remember hearing anything about him not being fit. He looked well enough in the first few game but his form and his attitude were shocking by late March.

selby

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Re: Rank em
« Reply #59 on June 09, 2018, 10:36:22 am by selby »
 Billy, thank god you are back, and did not stay in outer Mongolia when you took yourself off into the wilderness.
  Stats are facts, points per game are a good indication over a period of time how good a manager was over that period.
   The teams they play over that period, the form they are in, and what conditions, (poor weather heavy grounds) home and away matches are not generally taken into consideration, are the teams in that period fighting for promotion or against impending relegation, and can make a big difference.

 

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