Is the Labour party antisemitic?

[bpoolrover]

Ok

[MachoMadness]

The ifs are worried that taxing the rich would raise nothing like labour expect, let's say there right, what then where will labour get the money to fund all there promises?

Taxation as you've said. Borrowing at rock-bottom interest rates and using that to invest in the economy, infrastructure, education, public sector jobs, etc etc. This then stimulates the economy and the resulting increase in GDP means these promises effectively pay for themselves. It's pretty basic pump-priming economic theory. What the IFS actually said was that it's possible this might not work as well as Labour hoped because it's dependent on the economy starting up again, but it is all based on sound economic theory that's been tried and tested time and time again over decades, however it was certainly the most workable of all the party manifestos.

It's like deciding not to put petrol in your car because you're worried it might not start anyway. Putting petrol in your car doesn't guarantee that it'll start, but it's a safe bet that it will, and it's a damn sight better than not putting any petrol in at all because you're ideologically opposed to it, and just hoping the car magically starts itself somehow. Even if you don't end up filling the tank, it's better than nothing, wouldn't you agree?

[bpoolrover]

What the ifs said was a bit more than that macho as you probably no, they said both the tories and labour were misleading people and that labour would raise spending and taxes to record highs

[MachoMadness]

What the ifs said was a bit more than that macho as you probably no, they said both the tories and labour were misleading people and that labour would raise spending and taxes to record highs

Taxes objectively weren't going to be raised to record highs. You can look that up. You posted up a link to a fact checker the other day, right?

And you're moving the goalposts again. Initially you were going on about unemployment under Labour. You got proved wrong there. Then you moved on to debt levels under Labour. Proven wrong again. Then you said the IFS said Labour's economic plan wouldn't work. They didn't. Now it's the IFS said Labour would raise taxes to record levels, when they wouldn't! The manifesto outlined an increase in corporation tax and plans for an increase in income tax for those earning above £80k a year.

Raising government spending isn't always a bad thing, especially not when government spending is at rock bottom levels, with 2 (Tory-run) councils going bust in the last year, police numbers are being slashed, the NHS is struggling to cope, etc etc. Raising government spending way above where it needs to be isn't good, but it's also not what anyone is suggesting.

[bpoolrover]

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/conservative-labour-tax-spending-plans-ifs-general-election-manifesto.     Everything I said is in the always reliable guardian paper quoting the independent ifs

[bpoolrover]

Where was I proven wrong on debt levels both sides and independent people are split on it it's down to interpretation, as far as the NHS you can't keep throwing money at it without making changes,yes they need more money but it needs to go to the right places and with far less waste

[bpoolrover]

I'm not just a Tory voter macho, I have voted labour before and I would again if you take corbyn and McDonnell out of the equation and if they were honest where the money will come from, everything they said was give give give well that is not possible it is not possible just to target te rich the money has to come from other places to, again I want to know how they will help the worse off without raising benefits because if they do that unemployment will just rise as they will make it pointless 2 people on low incomes working it's not far off that now

[MachoMadness]

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/conservative-labour-tax-spending-plans-ifs-general-election-manifesto.     Everything I said is in the always reliable guardian paper quoting the independent ifs

Not quite. Highest spending since the mid-1980s and high taxation in peacetime. However, that's not what the IFS are criticising, because high spending and taxation are not inherently bad things. They're criticising that they don't think the manifesto would raise as much as Labour say, which is fair enough. However, the article you linked doesn't take into account the effects of borrowing at rock-bottom interest rates and investing that into the economy, leading to jobs and infrastructure and so on. Surely you must agree that trying and failing to reach a higher bar is better than digging deeper into the ground? There's a huge difference between "Labour's plan might not raise the full amount they want" and "Tory Austerity f**king the economy to the tune of £6bn". What is the alternative? More austerity?

As you're posting Guardian links: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/jun/03/the-big-issue-labour-manifesto-what-economy-needs?CMP=fb_gu

129 leading economists backed Labour's manifesto. These aren't just limp-wristed shandy-drinking lefties, these are people who dedicate their lives to this stuff. It's not just hiking taxes, it's increasing borrowing and diverting money that's already being spent inefficiently down to the working classes. Again, simple pump-priming stuff that has worked in the past.

[wilts rover]

What the ifs said was a bit more than that macho as you probably no, they said both the tories and labour were misleading people and that labour would raise spending and taxes to record highs

Whereas the Tories have raised taxes to record highs - and thats before the Autumn Budget where they have to find the money that May promised the NHS. The difference being that Labour would raise income tax for the richest where the Tories raise 'stealth taxes', fuel duty, VAT etc, for everybody.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6840388/brit-tax-burden-highest-since-1970/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sweden and Denmark have far higher taxes than us and far higher Govt spending. They also have far higher quality of life, per capita income and happiness index scores.

Makes you think.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And as a by the way, McDonnell’s economic policies were developed in tandem with a committee made up of 7 leading macroeconomic Professors, including one Nobel Prize winner. The idea put about by some of the Press that they are some sort of mad far left set of loony policies is ridiculous. Labour’s policies are to the right of what a any UK Govt did between 1945 and 1975. Several members of that committee openly criticised McDonnell for not being radical enough.

[Glyn_Wigley]

And as a by the way, McDonnell’s economic policies were developed in tandem with a committee made up of 7 leading macroeconomic Professors, including one Nobel Prize winner. The idea put about by some of the Press that they are some sort of mad far left set of loony policies is ridiculous. Labour’s policies are to the right of what a any UK Govt did between 1945 and 1975. Several members of that committee openly criticised McDonnell for not being radical enough.

So much so that David Owen - absolutely no friend of the left - has started donating to the Labour Party because he agrees with them again.

[bpoolrover]

Good job glyn as many have stopped or are stopping donating

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool

What are you on about? The Labour Party’s membership (paying members) has gone through the roof over the past 3 years.

[SydneyRover]

I was also reading how any of it would benefit people on working tax credits and benefits as there the poorest people as a rule, and still can't figure out how anyone will be any better off?

So stick with austerity?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Good job glyn as many have stopped or are stopping donating

Got their names and addresses have you? Or are you you just making it up again as usual?

[hoolahoop]

Good job glyn as many have stopped or are stopping donating

Sometimes you come out with the most bizarre statements , do you really think that the level of donations = the levels of economic competency ?

Clearly the rich will donate to the Party or organisations that benefit THEM the most - is that not obvious to you yet bpool ? I realise there are holes in the Labour spending plans but do they really compare adversely to the turgid mess that is Austerity or the as yet uncosted Tory manifrsto of 2017 ; I doubt it somehow.

It is well known that I share the same ideology as donnywolf and that I'm no friend of Labour but fact is the Labour plan is the only workable plan in town if checked.

[bpoolrover]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-sir-david-garrard-luciana-berger-a8283596.html?amp

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12190512/Labours-biggest-donors-abandon-party-and-pump-140k-into-leadership-challengers.html

https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/31/labour-donations-have-dropped-to-lowest-level-since-records-began-7594301/amp/

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/23/uks-biggest-political-donor-lord-sainsbury-to-end-his-contributions

Just a few links there are many more glyn

[bpoolrover]

See farage is coming back into politics that will be a good boost for labour I think

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/23/uks-biggest-political-donor-lord-sainsbury-to-end-his-contributions

Just a few links there are many more glyn

According to that he only made one donation to Labour.

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/31/labour-donations-have-dropped-to-lowest-level-since-records-began-7594301/amp/

Just a few links there are many more glyn

That one says that Labour gets £20m more donations a year than the Conservatives so I don't think they need to worry just yet.

[bpoolrover]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/23/uks-biggest-political-donor-lord-sainsbury-to-end-his-contributions

Just a few links there are many more glyn

According to that he only made one donation to Labour.

think you will find he donated to labour for years glum

[bpoolrover]

Sweden and Denmark have far higher taxes than us and far higher Govt spending. They also have far higher quality of life, per capita income and happiness index scores.

Makes you think.

just because it works in 1 country it does not mean it will in another

[BillyStubbsTears]

No, you’re right BPool. One country as an example proves nothing.

What about 92 countries?

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/RELATION-BETWEEN-TAX-REVENUE-AND-LOG-GDP-C-IN-92-DEVELOPED-AND-DEVELOPING-COUNTRIES-2007_fig6_299900817

[bpoolrover]

Lol bst I’ll take your word for it on that link thanks

[hoolahoop]

Lol bst I’ll take your word for it on that link thanks

Yep could be for the best bpool on this one. Lol

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well we spent weeks discussing if Corbyn was racist 

Question now is: is the Tory party racist?

They've just publicly supported the most racist Government in Europe and voted against the EU sanctioning them.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-orban-hungary-jewish-deputies-board-antisemitism-tory-british-meps-eu-vote-latest-a8535846.html%3famp

[hoolahoop]

Yes of course they are, if as is reported they whipped their MEPs into  to supporting what is fast becoming a despotic state and it's leaders.

[bpoolrover]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46070229