Doncaster of the South.............

[CusworthRovers]

Post Sundays game

Mr Ancelotti

'Maybe Arsenal had more possession than us, but this is not football, football is attack and defence as well as keeping possession when you need to, and results also.


Mr Ballack

\"We knew the way Arsenal play. It is always the same style.\"

\"Football is not possession of the ball and playing a nice pass - football is about winning games\".

\"We derived the win because we were very effective, and that was our strategy.\"


I thought Arsenal were the better team, the difference being the quality and power of the Chelski strikers (esp Didier).....now if Arsenal had Robin Van Persie who knows, or Petr had not played his game of a few seasons ago pre head injury, who knows.

The reason I posted it in here are the obvious comparisons drawn between the 2 clubs re possession and the need to keep the ball. One could easily see some of the above quotes being levelled at Rovers, esp when things are not going well.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Just read that Ballack quote 10 minutes ago and was going to say the exact same thing, the similarities are remarkable.

[BillyStubbsTears]

CusworthRovers wrote:

I thought Arsenal were the better team, the difference being the quality and power of the Chelski strikers (esp Didier).....now if Arsenal had Robin Van Persie who knows, or Petr had not played his game of a few seasons ago pre head injury, who knows.

If, if, if, if, if.

IF Juliette Binoche met me down the gym she'd be so overwhelmed by my physique, looks and intellect that she'd drag me up a back alley for a knee trembler.

But she hasn't.

The beauty of football, the thing that attracts so many people to it is that so many games rest of a knife-edge, or at least appear to do so. So many times, we see a \"better\" side lose to a side that appears \"lucky\".

So, when you've seen your side play (what YOU consider to be) sumptuous football and lose again, you can content yourself with the fact that you hold the moral high ground. That you play \"better\" football.

But at root, football success is actually about statistics. Who scores more goals; who wins most points. \"Quality\" is entirely subjective criteria by which to judge sides.. League positions are entirely objective criteria.

It's not an attractive philosophy, but Ballack is unquestionably correct.

Now, if, like us for the last two seasons, you play sophisticated football AND succeed in your points/position target, your manager is a star. If you do the same thing again this season, you are approaching legend status.

[CusworthRovers]

\"Football is not possession of the ball and playing a nice pass - football is about winning games\".

To be fair, only a German could say that, just like their Footy and their nations outlook on life.

You're not wrong mate on the objective/subjective theory, chuck in a few fans expectations ie Doncaster of the South fans love Arsene but hate living in the shadow of Man U and Chelsea. If The Arse are happy to finish 3rd and 4th each season, then Wenger will always be a god....he delivers what they want and they will play awesome footy in doing so. The job is a good un, as they say. However, one feels the fans want that elusive top 2 spot occupied by the mega rich 2 and a third one in the wings.


Now on a comparative to the Arsenal of the North, if Sean keeps giving us CCC footy each season and continues to play the type of football we have grown accustomed too, then the job should be a good un, once again. However will fans' expectations start to grow and they want more and more in terms of points, positions and prizes.

[silent majority]

If playing good attractive possession football gets you into the top 4 of the Premiership I'd settle for that!

[Snods Shinpad 2]

Bit of a strange one this.

It's not as though Chelsea and Man Utd don't play skillfull, passing, possession football anyway.

Only Liverpool, I would say, play a more direct game at times.

I think a bit of a myth has built around Arsenal. They didn't lose to Chelsea and Man Utd because of their passing game, they lost because they conceded two weak goals.

Take Barcelona last season for example.

They passed and played everyone off the park, playing an even more entertaining style than Arsenal.

Difference being they had better players and could defend properly.

Winning and playing nice footy are not mutually exclusive.

[wilts rover]

So are we agreed then that if we had a choice between taking all of Chelsea's players v all of Arsenal's players, we would have Chelsea's? Good lets move on - its all about the quality of player....and them playing well

If only we could be a boring direct side with big forwards, like WBA or Forest or a mobile passing team like Plymouth, see where that would get us

disclaimer: for those who dont get the joke I have swapped the teams and styles above as I am sure somebody will point this out to me..

[Dutch Uncle]

CusworthRovers wrote:

\"Football is not possession of the ball and playing a nice pass - football is about winning games\"..

I have just have to mention the best ever football book I have ever come across - \"Inverting the Pyramid\" by Jonathan Wilson

It is not only a history of football tactics for more than a century (from the original 2-3-5 through W-M to 4-2-4, 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 - i.e. the inverted pyramid) but it also ties various stages to social history e.g. Vienna Coffee Houses, liberal Amsterdam, Argentinian juntas, and various coaches and their personalities and life experiences

The recurring themes are expression of individual talent versus goal of the team,  and the need to win versus playing beautiful football.

A truly great read

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

I bought the book last week as it had some excellent write-ups.  Looking forward to reading it

[Dutch Uncle]

Enjoy Dr F - I'm sure you will

[CusworthRovers]

Sounds a good read DU, might have to get the Mrs to buy me that.

Of course from Shinny's post, I also agree that Man Utd, Chelsea and I would disagree, and say Liverpool also play a good football game, but unlike Arsenals IMO. Is that because Chelsea/Man U have 16 world class footballers in their team and therefore will always play good. Do they play to the strength of certain players rather than the team?

Is it the style of play or is it the calibre of the players or more likely the a combo of both.

I would say the top 4 in the EPL with Barca and Milan have practically dominated Europe in recent years. Do each of those clubs have the best players or the best tactics/team/style.

For example:

Real M have very good players but haven't dominated Europe or their own League. Very good players but maybe not the team/style/tactics.

Bayern have a German style that focus's on win win results philosophy rather than style. They will probs have the team/style/tactics and the odd good players yet they cannot dominate Europe or their League in recent times. Maybe they lack the true quality players.


IMO I think we play cracking footy, but it can be bettered with more quality players. We have the system, we just need the players if we are to go on and on.