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Author Topic: its taken 3 minutes  (Read 5073 times)

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I-was-there1976

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its taken 3 minutes
« on April 25, 2010, 01:44:13 pm by I-was-there1976 »
in the Brum derby to take the penalty (which never was) in which time the 4th official COULD have looked at the replay and the ref WOULD have changed his mind.

and some people dont want video evidence ?????????????



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I-was-there1976

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #1 on April 25, 2010, 02:10:57 pm by I-was-there1976 »
Aston Villa manager Martin O'Neill:


\"I can understand their frustration because they played well, but that's happened a lot to us this season. If they're disputing the decision there's no dispute about it because it's a penalty kick. I've seen it back since, and it's a penalty.\"



Arsene Wenger of the midlands ??????????

Mark DRFC

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #2 on April 25, 2010, 02:16:02 pm by Mark DRFC »
It was a penalty, regardless of if he toe ended the ball he took the man which is the foul therefore the penalty was correct!

I-was-there1976

  • Newbie
Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #3 on April 25, 2010, 02:51:18 pm by I-was-there1976 »
Mcleish got it right in his interview. If that was a pen there would be 40 a game.

I'll wait to hear from the ref on why he gave the penalty. Ill get back to you in 2047AD

BillyStubbsTears

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #4 on April 25, 2010, 03:17:47 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
It WAS a penalty. I haven't seen it but I don't give a monkey's chuff - the ref gave it therefore it was a penalty.

I am sick to the back teeth with hearing bleating about officials' decisions. They make mistakes. Just like players and managers do. It's one of the beautiful uncertainties about the game. And the only people screaming for video evidence are the ones with the most to gain from squeezing out that uncertainty - the big, rich clubs in the top league.

Mistakes balance out over a season. There are precious few refereeing mistakes anyway on the context if how many decisions are made each match. Why can't we all be grown up and say, \"That's life. We'll get a decision that balances it up next week or the week after\"?

We had people (wrongly) complaining here about an offside decision yesterday. If there were equally indignant comaints when we got a dodgy decision in our favour (like the cast iron penalty that Forest didn't get at the Keepmoat thus season for example) then those complaints might carry more moral weight.

I-was-there1976

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #5 on April 25, 2010, 03:25:30 pm by I-was-there1976 »
but you do give a monkeys chuff

BillyStubbsTears

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #6 on April 25, 2010, 04:05:38 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I meant that I give less than a monkey's chuff about arguments over the legitimacy or otherwise of the decision. Once the decision is made, it is madecand that's that.

i_ateallthepies

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #7 on April 25, 2010, 04:09:41 pm by i_ateallthepies »
BillyStubbsTears wrote:
Quote
It WAS a penalty. I haven't seen it but I don't give a monkey's chuff - the ref gave it therefore it was a penalty.

I am sick to the back teeth with hearing bleating about officials' decisions. They make mistakes. Just like players and managers do. It's one of the beautiful uncertainties about the game. And the only people screaming for video evidence are the ones with the most to gain from squeezing out that uncertainty - the big, rich clubs in the top league.

Mistakes balance out over a season.

If there were equally indignant comaints when we got a dodgy decision in our favour (like the cast iron penalty that Forest didn't get at the Keepmoat thus season for example) then those complaints might carry more moral weight.


That's a strangely un-BST like position to take for one with a penchant for using statistics to support (often tenuous) arguments, this one is suspiciously lacking in evidence.  Concensus is that there exists such a thing as 'Big Club Syndrome', in which (I thought) there seems to be a tendency to favour the big clubs in marginal decisions.  So how do you work out that only the big clubs have anything to gain from video evidence?  If big club syndrome really does exist, then surely they have nothing to gain from it.

And how many more times are people going to use the single decent example of a bad decision going our way to argue that things balance up over a season?....

When I was a bairn, and rushed out to spend my tanner pocket money on a bag of sweets, only then to go pleading to my dad when the ice cream van came around, I'd get told  \"you had your money and spent it\".... well the currency of the Forest penalty has been spent a zillion effing times on here already, which I think sort of proves my point.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #8 on April 25, 2010, 04:15:08 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I meant that I give less than a monkey's chuff about arguments over the legitimacy or otherwise of the decision. Once the decision is made, it is made and that's that.

TheRev

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #9 on April 25, 2010, 04:21:07 pm by TheRev »
and for those of us still uncertain on this.........

what is a \"monkey's chuff?\"  ;)

TheRev

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #10 on April 25, 2010, 04:21:08 pm by TheRev »
and for those of us still uncertain on this.........

what is a \"monkey's chuff?\"  ;)

BillyStubbsTears

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #11 on April 25, 2010, 04:28:41 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
It's dead easy to see why big, powerful clubs have more to lose by random fluctuations in key decisions. Leaving aside pub talk about 'big club syndrome' which amounts to little more than unsubstantiated opinion, and assuming that bad decisions are fairly and honestly made without bias, then the argument is straightforward.  

Consider. The top clubs have sewn up the power in this country's football nowadays, to the extent that they rarely lose. Now, if they get a bad decision in their favour, morevoftwn than not it will do no more than extend their margin of victory. Whereas if they get a bad decision against them, it might lead to a 1-0 victory turning into a draw. So, while the NUMBER of bad decisions might even out, the CONSEQUENCE of them will act against an already powerful club.

Now, a mid table side might win, draw and lose a roughly equal number of matches. So there is an equal chance of a bad decision turning a win into a draw, a draw into a defeat or vice versa. So the consequences of bad decisions would, on average, be neutral.

Easy enough to see why the consequences would be net positive for a low table side.

No stats I'm afraid, just simple logic. We'll get video refs, I'm sure, because the big clubs want it and it's very much in their favour. Football as a vibrant and unpredictable event will be poorer for it, but we can be happy that we've introduced one more little thing that helps the big clubs stay at the top in perpetuity.

RobTheRover

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #12 on April 25, 2010, 04:30:48 pm by RobTheRover »
It is the chuff produced by a small monkey

BillyStubbsTears

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #13 on April 25, 2010, 04:31:28 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
TheRev wrote:
Quote
and for those of us still uncertain on this.........

what is a \"monkey's chuff?\"  ;)


I first heard the term uttered by Jimmy Nail on Auf Wiedersehn, just before he nutted somebody. Since chuff equates to arsehole, I assume it's equivalent to the American \"rat's ass\", only considerably more poetic.

i_ateallthepies

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #14 on April 25, 2010, 04:34:38 pm by i_ateallthepies »
BST, when you start making 'logic' the foundation of your argument, we know you're on thin ice   :P :

RobTheRover

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #15 on April 25, 2010, 04:35:23 pm by RobTheRover »
I always thought \"chuff\" related to a small fart.  Review your old Viz comics for the visual guides to the sound emanating from Johnny Fartpants' posterior

Lord Farquaad

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #16 on April 25, 2010, 04:37:28 pm by Lord Farquaad »
RobTheRover wrote:
Quote
I always thought \"chuff\" related to a small fart.  Review your old Viz comics for the visual guides to the sound emanating from Johnny Fartpants' posterior


Isn't that a guff?

RobTheRover

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #17 on April 25, 2010, 04:51:29 pm by RobTheRover »
I believe the product is a guff, yes, but the sound is a chuff.  Its a grey area.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #18 on April 25, 2010, 04:52:35 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
i_ateallthepies wrote:
Quote
BST, when you start making 'logic' the foundation of your argument, we know you're on thin ice   :P :


Oh I have untenable opinions as well chuckie egg, but I deeply despise myself every time one flickers into my consciousness. In fact I've taken to flagellating myself with a sjambok and rubbing powder glass onto my genitalia every time it happens, just to remind myself how wrong it is.

That's why I stick to logic and stats. It's better for my knackers. If everyone took my lead and had a self-inflicted suppurating scrotum every time they spouted unsubstantiated ba-baa then the world would be a finer and nobler place.

i_ateallthepies

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #19 on April 25, 2010, 04:55:38 pm by i_ateallthepies »
BillyStubbsTears wrote:
Quote
i_ateallthepies wrote:
Quote
BST, when you start making 'logic' the foundation of your argument, we know you're on thin ice   :P :


Oh I have untenable opinions as well chuckie egg, but I deeply despise myself every time one flickers into my consciousness. In fact I've taken to flagellating myself with a sjambok and rubbing powder glass onto my genitalia every time it happens, just to remind myself how wrong it is.

That's why I stick to logic and stats. It's better for my knackers. If everyone took my lead and had a self-inflicted suppurating scrotum every time they spouted unsubstantiated ba-baa then the world would be a finer and nobler place.


Looks like sore bollox night for you then owd cock.

http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=57&func=view&catid=999999&id=81162

Lord Farquaad

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #20 on April 25, 2010, 04:56:40 pm by Lord Farquaad »

Lord Farquaad

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #21 on April 25, 2010, 05:00:03 pm by Lord Farquaad »
RobTheRover wrote:
Quote
I believe the product is a guff, yes, but the sound is a chuff.  Its a grey area.


No, the grey area is the more mature lady's beef curtains.

RobTheRover

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #22 on April 25, 2010, 05:01:19 pm by RobTheRover »
Lets not go there, eh?  I'm just getting ready to go to Naaz for tea

I-was-there1976

  • Newbie
Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #23 on April 25, 2010, 05:05:04 pm by I-was-there1976 »
mmmm Naaz !!!!!

Tried that one in Sprotty 2 weeks ago. Even tastier and never knew it was there.

Might try a takeout tonight now

en aitch

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #24 on April 25, 2010, 05:06:03 pm by en aitch »
Irrespective of the definition of the word \"chuff\" (which may or may not be to produce or move with noisy puffing or explosive sounds) I actually agree with BST on the basis of his comment.

Talk about whinging!

I seldom hear anyone complain about decisions that go our way. I'm constantly amazed that opposition players are always clearly \"miles offside\" and our guys are never ever even borderline (according to the seated hordes around me). Sure, whist at the game have a moan, but when you get home try to take off the blinkers and understand what you actually saw.

Referees aren't biased, and they are usually right(ish) - true it is sometimes difficult to see how a throw-in / corner can be so clearly incorrect but it is an instant human decision ....

just out of interest ... that shot by Forte ... did it go in off the bar and bounce back out or did it bounce straight down ... I know it's academic 'cos they scored in the aftermath? .... or is there a thread somewhere that I've missed?

roversron

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #25 on April 25, 2010, 05:06:35 pm by roversron »
I think it would be said 'grey area' if the guff was chuffed whilst wearing white wangers.

bobjimwilly

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #26 on April 25, 2010, 09:56:29 pm by bobjimwilly »
en aitch wrote:
Quote
I seldom hear anyone complain about decisions that go our way.

Well, duh!  B)

Quote
I'm constantly amazed that opposition players are always clearly \"miles offside\" and our guys are never ever even borderline (according to the seated hordes around me). Sure, whist at the game have a moan, but when you get home try to take off the blinkers and understand what you actually saw.

Because they always are, and we never are!

Quote
Referees aren't biased, and they are usually right(ish) - true it is sometimes difficult to see how a throw-in / corner can be so clearly incorrect but it is an instant human decision ....

Are you having a laugh? So referees, for example, giving 3+ mins extra to Fergie and his motley crew after extra time (in which they then normally score) is not biased?[/quote]

And in reply to BST earlier on in the thread saying all bad decisions get equalled out over the season, normally I would agree, but this season I feel not much has gone our away when it shouldn't have? The only time I can remember it has was the peno that Forest should have had at the Keepmoat?

 :S

en aitch

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #27 on April 25, 2010, 10:09:16 pm by en aitch »
:)  Blinkers mate, blinkers!

Thinwhiteduke

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #28 on April 25, 2010, 10:45:29 pm by Thinwhiteduke »
I-was-there1976 wrote:
Quote
in the Brum derby to take the penalty (which never was) in which time the 4th official COULD have looked at the replay and the ref WOULD have changed his mind.

and some people dont want video evidence ?????????????


Your right. Should not have been a penalty in a million years. Roger Johnson clearly got to the ball before any contact was made with Agbonlahor and Martin Atkinson was miles away - unless he is certain a foul has been commited, how can he make that call?

When are refs going to be held accountable for disgraceful decisions such as that? They should be dragged out after the match to explain themselves. But, true to type for most Refs, Atkinson is another coward who thinks he knows best.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re:its taken 3 minutes
« Reply #29 on April 26, 2010, 01:11:36 am by BillyStubbsTears »
bobjimwilly wrote:
Quote
And in reply to BST earlier on in the thread saying all bad decisions get equalled out over the season, normally I would agree, but this season I feel not much has gone our away when it shouldn't have? The only time I can remember it has was the peno that Forest should have had at the Keepmoat?


It's the way of all humanity. Nobody remembers little slices of good luck, but everyone remembers being smacked in the face.

There have been times many this season when I've thought, \"got away with that one\" (offsides not given when we appeared to be, offsides given against opponents when they appeared not to be, dodgy challenges in our own box) but you forget the details almost immediately. Is anyone here going to remember if Billy Sharp was two yards offside and allowed to go on and score a winner? Course not. But I recall reading comments on some club's website a few months ago when they were livid that (as they saw it) exactly that situation had occurred. They nurse a sense of injustice, we don't even remember which match it was.

Plus, of course, many of these \"stuck on\" injustices that we suffer either turn out not to have been wrong decisions after all (like Hooper's goal on Saturday) or are left without TV evidence to prove the case one way or another (meaning that our gut instinct that we have been cheated can not be challenged).

If you want convincing that we are NOT some special case that's always getting the shitty end of the stick on refs' decsions, go look on our opponent's forum the next time you think we have been unfairly treated and see what they say. Pound to a piece of shite, they think it ws THEM who didn't get the breaks.

Like I say, it's the human condition.

 

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