Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Filo on March 27, 2020, 05:55:49 pm
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Well done weasle Gove, avoided every question, we’re in a National Emergency and they wheel out this coke head!
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I see Gove is spending next week in discussions with the EU about Brexit details.
I'm literally lost for words.
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Well done weasle Gove, avoided every question, we’re in a National Emergency and they wheel out this coke head!
I have no idea of who they have who would do better? Not a Priti picture is it.
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Gove appears to contradict himself by saying they are going to bring together a 'new alliance' to boost testing on front line workers that will start immediately in "trials" unless there's a lot cut from the video?
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The journalist from the Telegraph or Independent didn’t ask one question like the others have done he used it to slag the government off ,he wouldn’t have done if Boris had been there . It was disgraceful
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Michael Gove under questioning:
The important thing is to look forward, not backwards.
Yeah, I bet! Cause if you look backwards you’ll see 10 years of austerity which has left us with a divided, threadbare society and inappropriate levels of preparation for the crisis we are in
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What do people think of the way labours mayor has handled the situation?
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What do people think of the way labours mayor has handled the situation?
If they were interested there'd already be a thread about him. As it is, this is a thread about Gove's handling of the situation. Are you going to say anything about him or just lob in another attempt to deflect from the subject at hand?
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If you call the mayor of London an absolute w**ker BR, the first thing that would be thrown at you would be that you are racial, in spite of him being one.
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Selby.
The first thing I would throw at you is a request to explain why you think him to be an absolute w**ker.
So that's f**ked your "racist" claim.
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Well Billy, when I listened to a man on the radio explaining that he could no longer visit his terminally ill son because he could no longer afford the parking and congestion charges of over £220 pounds a week that a labour mayor imposes on people I decided he was a w**nker, among other reasons, including the way he has overseen London transport during this emergency which confirmed my view of the man.
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I love your ' I heard a bloke on the radio say...' claims.
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Boris Johnson says "British Spirit" will get us through the Covid 19 pandemic.
Dunno about you, but universal basic income, PPE for the NHS & a significant increase in ventilators would get me thru the pandemic.
"British Spirit" sounds like cross your fingers & hope you don't die.
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It is just the same as quoting The Guardian Glynn without the shame and realisation it is a minority publication not many others bother to read the propaganda in it unlike the Daily Mail.
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Anyone see Gove on the Sophie Ridge show this morning wittering away and avoiding answering the question he had been asked. She even said to him, twice, but thats not the question I asked you.
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Is this another one of your Mike Graham radio show stories Selby?
And you DO know that Boris Johnson imposed the congestion charges in London?
And I assume you also are aware that they have the tube and buses all over London?
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Anyone see Gove on the Sophie Ridge show this morning wittering away and avoiding answering the question he had been asked. She even said to him, twice, but thats not the question I asked you.
Oh come on wilts........all politicians do that.
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I think these briefings are just a competition between ministers to see who can avoid answering as many questions as they can
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It is just the same as quoting The Guardian Glynn without the shame and realisation it is a minority publication not many others bother to read the propaganda in it unlike the Daily Mail.
Just the same, eh? Then you'll be able to give the the name of the person you're quoting then won't you.
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Anyone see Gove on the Sophie Ridge show this morning wittering away and avoiding answering the question he had been asked. She even said to him, twice, but thats not the question I asked you.
Oh come on wilts........all politicians do that.
Hound.
This is the biggest national emergency since WWII. Are you really just going to "meh" about politicians lying to you through this?
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Anyone see Gove on the Sophie Ridge show this morning wittering away and avoiding answering the question he had been asked. She even said to him, twice, but thats not the question I asked you.
Oh come on wilts........all politicians do that.
Hound.
This is the biggest national emergency since WWII. Are you really just going to "meh" about politicians lying to you through this?
No, but I am being realistic about how politicians answer, or actually, don’t answer, questions.
Journalists are demanding answers that can’t be given because no one knows the answers yet.
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People on here politicising a national tragedy.
Shameful.
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People on here politicising a national tragedy.
Shameful.
No they are not, they are pointing out the incompetence of our Government, you would get the same criticism if it were a Labour Government
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People on here politicising a national tragedy.
Shameful.
It has been building up over the last few days SS.
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Anyone see Gove on the Sophie Ridge show this morning wittering away and avoiding answering the question he had been asked. She even said to him, twice, but thats not the question I asked you.
Oh come on wilts........all politicians do that.
Hound.
This is the biggest national emergency since WWII. Are you really just going to "meh" about politicians lying to you through this?
No, but I am being realistic about how politicians answer, or actually, don’t answer, questions.
Journalists are demanding answers that can’t be given because no one knows the answers yet.
Gove was asked repeatedly by Marr this morning if the Cabinet Office had received the e-mail from the EU inviting us to join in a concerted effort to produce and distribute PPE and ventilators. He refused to answer.
That is not an issue that he doesn't know the answer to. Or if it is, he is unfit to continue as the minister in charge of the Cabinet Office.
This is a time where the population needs to be able to trust politicians. Gove has made a career out of lying and evading and he was lying and evading today. That is utterly inexcusable.
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Gove said this morning the government were now carrying out 10000 tests per day - todays figures show they carried out under 7000 yesterday.
He was asked if he could guarantee if all NHS workers now had PPE equipment - he avoided the answer
He was asked how the government had managed to miss the email from the EU about ventilator procurement - he avoided the answer
He was asked why the government had contacted Dyson & JCB about making ventilators - yet not replied to two companies who already manufacture ventilators who had contacted them to offer their supplies - he avoided the answer
(here's the guy from MEC Medical on Newsnight last week https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1242949236762738692)
If you don't think the British public deserve answers to those questions - welcome to North Korea
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People on here politicising a national tragedy.
Shameful.
No they are not, they are pointing out the incompetence of our Government, you would get the same criticism if it were a Labour Government
Funny how those who moan about 'politicising' are those you'd bet on screaming blue murder the loudest if it had been Jeremy Corbyn presiding over such a shambles.
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People on here politicising a national tragedy.
Shameful.
No they are not, they are pointing out the incompetence of our Government, you would get the same criticism if it were a Labour Government
Funny how those who moan about 'politicising' are those you'd bet on screaming blue murder the loudest if it had been Jeremy Corbyn presiding over such a shambles.
Perhaps it would have been expected.
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People on here politicising a national tragedy.
Shameful.
No they are not, they are pointing out the incompetence of our Government, you would get the same criticism if it were a Labour Government
Funny how those who moan about 'politicising' are those you'd bet on screaming blue murder the loudest if it had been Jeremy Corbyn presiding over such a shambles.
Perhaps it would have been expected.
On what basis do you come to that conclusion?
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Just my opinion.
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Just my opinion.
No basis then?
Whats your opinion on the Governments response to cv19
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People on here politicising a national tragedy.
Shameful.
No they are not, they are pointing out the incompetence of our Government, you would get the same criticism if it were a Labour Government
Funny how those who moan about 'politicising' are those you'd bet on screaming blue murder the loudest if it had been Jeremy Corbyn presiding over such a shambles.
Perhaps it would have been expected.
On what basis do you come to that conclusion?
I would suggest on the evidence of your posting history, to be honest.
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Just my opinion.
No basis then?
Whats your opinion on the Governments response to cv19
Yeah, my own thoughts.
The government?
They are doing well with some stuff, could do better with other stuff.
What do you think.
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Well Billy, when I listened to a man on the radio explaining that he could no longer visit his terminally ill son because he could no longer afford the parking and congestion charges of over £220 pounds a week that a labour mayor imposes on people I decided he was a w**nker, among other reasons, including the way he has overseen London transport during this emergency which confirmed my view of the man.
The congestion charge is now suspended, car parking at hospitals happens wherever you are, you cannot visit people in hospital now, and transport is necessary for key workers otherwise roads are congested. What exactly has he done with transport? Increased or decreased it, forced people to travel or what?
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While we are talking about people who have built a career out of misleading the public, here's one of the prime examples.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jdportes/status/1244259141515952128
This is utterly disgraceful. Hannan is arguing that the shutdown is over the top. He uses the fact that the Imperial college model predictions have the death toll at 5700, instead of 250,000. But the 5700 is their estimate of the best outcome WITH the lockdown.
I cannot believe that a serious national newspaper would allow this bullshit by a professional liar to be published at the best of times. In the middle of a once in a century crisis, it is criminal.
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Gove said this morning the government were now carrying out 10000 tests per day - todays figures show they carried out under 7000 yesterday.
He was asked if he could guarantee if all NHS workers now had PPE equipment - he avoided the answer
He was asked how the government had managed to miss the email from the EU about ventilator procurement - he avoided the answer
He was asked why the government had contacted Dyson & JCB about making ventilators - yet not replied to two companies who already manufacture ventilators who had contacted them to offer their supplies - he avoided the answer
(here's the guy from MEC Medical on Newsnight last week https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1242949236762738692)
If you don't think the British public deserve answers to those questions - welcome to North Korea
I suppose the question to the Tory supporters who are saying the Labour supporters are just treating this as a political debate is did Gove make any attempt to answer the questions that Wilts points out above and do you have any trust in what he says and if he didn't why not?
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Is this another one of your Mike Graham radio show stories Selby?
And you DO know that Boris Johnson imposed the congestion charges in London?
And I assume you also are aware that they have the tube and buses all over London?
Actually it was Ken Livingstone ;)
There was an article in the Evening Standard quite a while after where it was admitted that traffic lights in the outer boroughs had been rephased to slow traffic into the centre down to help "prove" the congestion charge worked
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People on here politicising a national tragedy.
Shameful.
No they are not, they are pointing out the incompetence of our Government, you would get the same criticism if it were a Labour Government
Funny how those who moan about 'politicising' are those you'd bet on screaming blue murder the loudest if it had been Jeremy Corbyn presiding over such a shambles.
Perhaps it would have been expected.
On what basis do you come to that conclusion?
I would suggest on the evidence of your posting history, to be honest.
Really? Do I hold that much sway with Labour policy?
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Apologies DR. You are right, it was Livingstone.
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Apologies DR. You are right, it was Livingstone.
Its ok mate its not that often you're wrong :) :)
and its even rarer for me to be able to pull you up :)
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Heh. If only.
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Well Billy, when I listened to a man on the radio explaining that he could no longer visit his terminally ill son because he could no longer Well Billy, when I listened to a man on the radio explaining that he could no longer visit his terminally ill son because he could no longer afford the parking and congestion charges of over £220 pounds a week that a labour mayor imposes on people I decided he was a w**nker, among other reasons, including the way he has overseen London transport during this emergency which confirmed my view of the man.
irmed my
I love your on the radio stories. Please, tell us another one.
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While we are talking about people who have built a career out of misleading the public, here's one of the prime examples.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jdportes/status/1244259141515952128
This is utterly disgraceful. Hannan is arguing that the shutdown is over the top. He uses the fact that the Imperial college model predictions have the death toll at 5700, instead of 250,000. But the 5700 is their estimate of the best outcome WITH the lockdown.
I cannot believe that a serious national newspaper would allow this bullshit by a professional liar to be published at the best of times. In the middle of a once in a century crisis, it is criminal.
D'oh! Stupid me.
After I posted that, I read an article that explains perfectly what this is about. And it it absolutely disgusting.
These politicians are not thick. They know precisely what they are doing. They KNOW that we have to have the lockdown to stop carnage this year. But they also know this will produce economic carnage. And they don't want their side to be blamed for that.
So here's what you do. You keep our fingers crossed that people listen to the experts and do help bring the epidemic under control. But at the same time, you start, now, dripping out suggestions that the expert epidemiologists advising Govt are shite at their job.
"250,000 deaths in one analysis and only 5,000 in another one!?! What bleeding use are these 'ere "experts" eh? I mean, we HAVE to err on the side of caution if we are getting infor from them like that, but sheesh! Experts, eh?"
Then, when this is all over and you are faced with the economic carnage, you turn your guns fully on the epidemiologists. "You idiots advised us to close down the country and of course we didn't need to. We've damaged the economy by following your advice. It's is YOUR fault that taxes go up and public spending has to be hammered now."
You think that's too far fetched? Remember, we are talking about people who spent a decade pumping you lies about the EU, and persuading people to vote against their own economic interests.
Just watch and see how this goes over the rest of the year as the right wing populists play this out.
Bolsanaro is already laying the groundwork for it in Brazil. Calling for the lockdown to be ended and threatening to sack his helth minister for advising that the lockdown continues.
Trump's supporters are laying into Anthony Fauci, the medical expert advising the White House on lockdown, saying he his undermining Trump's plan to get the economy going again.
And now that odious t**t Hannan, doing precisely the same thing here in the UK.
Utterly, utterly disgusting. Devious, gutless cowards, the lot of them.
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It is just the same as quoting The Guardian Glynn without the shame and realisation it is a minority publication not many others bother to read the propaganda in it unlike the Daily Mail.
What appears to be lost on you selby and a couple of others is that a single accurate report in the Guardian or other respectable news source is worth all the rest of the 'tits and togger' (bst) stories that are cut and pasted or churned out from the all the others put together and I would see a good doctor about that voice you keep hearing too :)
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It surely must be Larry the cat turn soon, he actually might be more informative than the others 😀
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.... and more factually correct
Laura Kuenssberg "Question - Can you put a stop to the Virus Larry?"
Larry the Cat " Me how ?"
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Gove again today, be prepared for more evasion
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Blog/ snap judgement on today Number 10 briefing -
Questions slightly better,
answers worse – these briefings are not serving the public interest well
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Alastair Campbell
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Todays briefing is late, and todays lier is Matt Hancock
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Blog/ snap judgement on today Number 10 briefing -
Questions slightly better,
answers worse – these briefings are not serving the public interest well
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Alastair Campbell
Alastair Campbell? F*ck me, that IS scraping the bottom of the barrel.
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Todays briefing is late, and todays lier is Matt Hancock
Does not matter which one they "chuck on" I always think the same thing ....
They look like this (which although it features the US President) - it applies to most Politicians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2n87YKSjrA
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Hancock has repeated the line about chemical reagents being in short supply globally. He quoted an authority on that. Donald Trump.
He then said the reason why we weren't able to develop test kits earlier was that we didn't have the manufacturers to do so. He said that we are now developing the capability.
But that raises the question I keep hammering on about. Why did it take until mid-March to start getting our shit together on this? Why were we not prioritising this in late January? This is the critical question about competence.
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BBC conveniently cutting the briefing when Hancock is asked a question about him getting a test and NHS workers can’t!
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Never mind lads it won't be long before the cavalry will come over the hill to save us led by boring old Starmer the working class millionaire or Sally Sally Long Bailey singing the red flag now known as the losers anthem.
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Never mind lads it won't be long before the cavalry will come over the hill to save us led by boring old Starmer the working class millionaire or Sally Sally Long Bailey singing the red flag now known as the losers anthem.
What do you not like about Labour, out of interest?
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Never mind lads it won't be long before the cavalry will come over the hill to save us led by boring old Starmer the working class millionaire or Sally Sally Long Bailey singing the red flag now known as the losers anthem.
Instead of politicking why don’t you contribute something useful, it appears you think this situation is funny, it’s not, grow up and act your age!
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Selby.
When you have a minute between your laughs. That Der Spiegel link?
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Never mind lads it won't be long before the cavalry will come over the hill to save us led by boring old Starmer the working class millionaire or Sally Sally Long Bailey singing the red flag now known as the losers anthem.
What do you not like about Labour, out of interest?
You'd be better off asking the millions of Northern voters who turned against them at the Election, although the answer is quite obvious.
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Never mind lads it won't be long before the cavalry will come over the hill to save us led by boring old Starmer the working class millionaire or Sally Sally Long Bailey singing the red flag now known as the losers anthem.
What do you not like about Labour, out of interest?
You'd be better off asking the millions of Northern voters who turned against them at the Election, although the answer is quite obvious.
I was asking Selby.
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Never mind lads it won't be long before the cavalry will come over the hill to save us led by boring old Starmer the working class millionaire or Sally Sally Long Bailey singing the red flag now known as the losers anthem.
You are aware I take it Selby that Starmer is one of five children , his father was a toolmaker and his mother a nurse .
Most definitely didn't have a silver spoon in his mouth unlike the present PM .
I wouldn't concern yourself over Long - Bailey too much , Starmer will win by a mile .
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Never mind lads it won't be long before the cavalry will come over the hill to save us led by boring old Starmer the working class millionaire or Sally Sally Long Bailey singing the red flag now known as the losers anthem.
You are aware I take it Selby that Starmer is one of five children , his father was a toolmaker and his mother a nurse .
Most definitely didn't have a silver spoon in his mouth unlike the present PM .
I wouldn't concern yourself over Long - Bailey too much , Starmer will win by a mile .
Tyke - you do realise you are reply to a post by someone who voted for and continually supports an old Etonian millionaire who thinks working class men are drunk, feckless and criminal?
It's not the fact he is a millionaire that he sees as a problem - its that he is a millionaire who wants to help those who are not millionaires. Tories only support the rich, always have done, always will do. They reagard anyone with personal wealth who wants fairer economic distribution as a class traitor.
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Yep selby :)stop using labour as a reason why vote tory, you vote tory cos you are one :)
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A new one Sydney, the labour Party I voted for from Wilson to this election no longer exists.
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One vote for the tories could be a genuine protest vote, two votes make you one :)
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I am there to be got on side again Sydney, but they have to get rid of a lot of dross MP's and change back to a proper labour party.
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One vote for the tories could be a genuine protest vote, two votes make you one :)
He said he had voted Labour from Harold Wilson to this election so I make it one vote for the Tories, not two.
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Better confirm that with selby hound :) just for balance
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I am there to be got on side again Sydney, but they have to get rid of a lot of dross MP's and change back to a proper labour party.
I appreciate that selby but not voting for labour or voting for a party that keeps labour out benefits who?
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I am there to be got on side again Sydney, but they have to get rid of a lot of dross MP's and change back to a proper labour party.
I appreciate that selby but not voting for labour or voting for a party that keeps labour out benefits who?
Brexit voters.
Why are you lot in such constant denial as to why your party took such a thrashing?
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Well done SS you're the first to mention brexit on this thread, have a look at some of the real questions put to our 'politicians' on this thread that they have refused to answer and actually lied about especially the sequence of events surrounding the negotiations to order ventilators, it's quite staggering.
Denied, then lied, there's a pattern that leads all the way back to johnson.
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I am there to be got on side again Sydney, but they have to get rid of a lot of dross MP's and change back to a proper labour party.
'Labour has a lot of dross MPs, so I'll vote for a party with even more dross MPs and who have made the worst of them the their leaders' f**k me drunk!
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Thing is Mr Pies, people don't take your opinion as gospel, they have their own opinions and vote accordingly. Unfortunately, for you, that's the reason why they have more 'dross MP's' than your party has!
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And your opinion BB is worth no more than mine.
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Precisely! and THAT'S why we have democratic elections where the party with the most votes gets elected.
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Actually that’s not true in our democracy.. the party which wins rarely if ever gets over 50% of the votes due to the multi party system.
Most people who voted didn’t vote conservative.
It is actually possible, although I don’t think it happened this time, for a party to win the election by getting the most seats, but actually getting fewer votes than the runner up, simply by getting small majorities in the seats they won, and whopping defeats in the ones they lost.
So no, your assertion isn’t correct.
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That's not what I said. I said the party with the most votes gets elected.
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Still not an overall majority though..
Yes I was being pedantic to prove a point..
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I said the party with the most votes gets elected. What point did you prove?
You said my assertion wasn't correct. Why wasn't it?
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If they are say 35 million votes, and the party who wins gets 15 million, that means 20 million people didn’t vote for them.. they may have all voted for several different parties, but the winning one doesn’t have an absolute majority within the voting population.
That’s all..
If 10 people vote for 9 choices, potentially the winning choice can do that wit only 2 votes.. a simplistic example perhaps..
Anyway, you know exactly what I mean and I know you know.
It’s an argument in favour of proportional representation or a two way only vote.
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But you said my assertion wasn't correct. Why wasn't it?
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BB in 1951 Labour won 48.8% of the vote, the Conservatives won most seats and formed the government, so your assertion can be wrong.
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I was referring to 2019, not 1951. IDM said my assertion that the party with the most votes won wasn't correct. It was.
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Please point to your post where you refered to the date of the election bb
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Precisely! and THAT'S why we have democratic elections where the party with the most votes gets elected.
This above quote is untrue.
Cue Jamie Paterson style winding-up handle.....
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I was referring to 2019, not 1951. IDM said my assertion that the party with the most votes won wasn't correct. It was.
Precisely! and THAT'S why we have democratic elections where the party with the most votes gets elected.
Which part of the second quote above referred to 2019, I could have sworn I read this as “democratic elections” ie a generalisation.??
I have no problem with disagreeing but you have just contradicted yourself to revise your original point after it had been challenged.. “I said X but actually meant Y” sort of thing..
Sorry but I ain’t a mind reader..
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To be fair IDM, the first thing you said in reply to BB was “ Actually that’s not true in our democracy.. the party which wins rarely if ever gets over 50% of the votes due to the multi party system.
Most people who voted didn’t vote conservative.“
Entirely true but not at all relevant to the point he made.
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yes but when dealing with bb - pendantic-r-us :)
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Ok, if you want to be pedantic it's the party with the most seats that get elected. My point that we have democratic elections to decide that still stands. IDM's intervention was completely missing the point and his post was purely pedantic so as to find a way of disagreeing with my post. Just like the usual culprits who jumped on the bandwagon this morning, really!
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The party with most seats obviously wins the elections, but not having the popular vote may not be as democratic as we would hope, hence the call for proportional representation so the vote can be represented in the make up of the government, especially with so many parties standing nowadays.
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Hang on, BB’s point about votes was following some points about opinions, correct.?
He then made the point about our democracy, and I replied that his statement is inaccurate in that if you add up the votes for the other parties all together, that is almost always more than the winning party got.
My point was, and is, to illustrate the flaws in our democratic system, usually we get a government which maybe 60% of folks who voted didn’t actually want..
I’m not disputing how our system works just to argue with BB, simply pointing out a different perspective..
Also, going back to opinions, if our opinions of politicians change and we want a different government we can eventually vote them out, flawed system or not..
Interesting point, democracy allowing a further vote to change what isn’t working..
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The party with most seats obviously wins the elections, but not having the popular vote may not be as democratic as we would hope, hence the call for proportional representation so the vote can be represented in the make up of the government, especially with so many parties standing nowadays.
But again, that is completely irrelevant to the point I made in post 71!
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I disagree - not for the sake of disagreeing mind.
You brought up democracy and I pointed out flaws in the system.
That’s how discussion threads evolve isn’t it.? Not just a series of yes/no contradictions and personal insults.
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Our voting system is ludicrous.
Blair in 97 and Thatcher in 83 both got 100+ seat majorities and effectively untrammelled power with 57% of the vote going against them. That is utterly outrageous.
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Hang on, BB’s point about votes was following some points about opinions, correct.?
He then made the point about our democracy, and I replied that his statement is inaccurate in that if you add up the votes for the other parties all together, that is almost always more than the winning party got.
My point was, and is, to illustrate the flaws in our democratic system, usually we get a government which maybe 60% of folks who voted didn’t actually want..
I’m not disputing how our system works just to argue with BB, simply pointing out a different perspective..
Also, going back to opinions, if our opinions of politicians change and we want a different government we can eventually vote them out, flawed system or not..
Interesting point, democracy allowing a further vote to change what isn’t working..
But the rules, however wrong they are, are the same for all parties! My post referring to Iatellthepies comment (post 71) was nothing to do with that subject.
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No your post was about democratic votes..
We’re taken that point further, I assume that’s ok with you.?
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BB, I suppose when you haven't won an election in a generation, a referendum although that was a straight vote for vote count, and two elections where Brexit was the main topic, one you avidly disagreed with and lost the lot, then you would want proportional representation, just to feel relevant again, instead of just a noise.
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Democracy could be impoved with a better better voting system but it's unlikely to happen under conservatives as they well understand the disadvantage to them.
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No your post was about democratic votes..
We’re taken that point further, I assume that’s ok with you.?
We're taken that point further? Who's "we're?" My argument is with you. You admitted yourself that you were being pedantic, and just because you have had a bit of backing by the usual culprits who always oppose everything I say you appear now to be denying your confession!
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Democracy could be impoved with a better better voting system but it's unlikely to happen under conservatives as they well understand the disadvantage to them.
Why didn't Labour introduce it when they were in power?
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This countries voting boundaries will be changed under the rules of population per constituency before the next general election, which is estimated to give the Tories an even bigger advantage of up to twenty more seats.
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This has to be the £25 argument.
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Democracy could be impoved with a better better voting system but it's unlikely to happen under conservatives as they well understand the disadvantage to them.
Why didn't Labour introduce it when they were in power?
It was the most stupid mistake that Blair ever made, both for moral and political reasons.
Morally it's obviously the right thing to do.
Politically, well throughout the last 40 years there has been a centre-left majority in this country. If we had proper proportional representation, there would never again be a right wing Govt in this country.
Blair came very close to agreeing to bring in PR in 1997. But he bottled it because he thought it would weaken Labour's position at a time that they were very strong. It was an enormous strategic mistake.
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This has to be the £25 argument.
No it isn’t, it’s just contradiction ;)
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Democracy could be impoved with a better better voting system but it's unlikely to happen under conservatives as they well understand the disadvantage to them.
Why didn't Labour introduce it when they were in power?
It was the most stupid mistake that Blair ever made, both for moral and political reasons.
Morally it's obviously the right thing to do.
Politically, well throughout the last 40 years there has been a centre-left majority in this country. If we had proper proportional representation, there would never again be a right wing Govt in this country.
Blair came very close to agreeing to bring in PR in 1997. But he bottled it because he thought it would weaken Labour's position at a time that they were very strong. It was an enormous strategic mistake.
What's the stats behind there being a centre left majority out of interest?
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No your post was about democratic votes..
We’re taken that point further, I assume that’s ok with you.?
We're taken that point further? Who's "we're?" My argument is with you. You admitted yourself that you were being pedantic, and just because you have had a bit of backing by the usual culprits who always oppose everything I say you appear now to be denying your confession!
I’m not denying being pedantic to make my point. I have to be pedantic sometimes for the message to get across..
You seem to get offended when others offer a different point of view, with explanations, but you just don’t seem to accept that that can happen..
I know you know what I mean all along, you’re just being argumentative for the sake of it.
It is actually ok for folks to have different views, but hey, only as long as they agree with yours.?
I think you do it just to entertain yourself on the forum. Each to their own.
I’ll be making more effort not to get drawn into things with you..
I can’t wait for the football to start again.
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Bullshit. You started the argument with me by being pedantic! The evidence is there for all to see! It was more a case that you knew exactly what I meant but chose to be pedantic!
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Back we go to our very own King of comedy,and King of put downs,BB aka David Brent.
He's gone into his NMA Stupid Questions mode again.
I'm sure there must be an off switch for it somewhere. He's going to implode arguing with himself soon.
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Whatever BB - you just go on being 100% right 100% of the time.
The evidence is there for all to see.
Over and out
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Ldr.
The LDs have presented themselves as a left-leaning centrist party since the 1980s. If you want evidence of that, just look at how their support collapsed in 2010 within weeks if going into coalition with the Tories.
The Greens are left of centre. So are the SNP. And so were the SDP in days gone by.
Here's the voting figures for the past 40 years.
1983. Lab + Alliance + Green + SNP 54.6%
1987. Lab + Alliance + Green + SNP 55.0%
1992. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 54.6%
1997. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 62.2%
2001. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 61.4%
2005. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 59.1%
2010. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 54.7%
2015. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 46.8%
2017. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 52.0%
2019. Lab + LD + Green + SNP 50.4%
So, OK, I forgot about 2015. That is the one and only election of that period in which a right-wing coalition (Con,UKIP,DUP) would have reached 50% of the vote (exactly 50.0% in that case).
It is clear that in almost every election in the past 40 years, the centrist party would have held the balance of power. And personally, I find it inconceivable that a centrist party led by Owen and Steel would have supported Thatcher. Or Ashdown & Kennedy would have supported IDS or Hague or Howard.
In a PR situation in 2010 there is no way on God's earth that Clegg would have enabled a Cameron Austerity Govt.
And here's the really big one. It is clear that in 2019, a majority voted for parties that would have blocked Brexit.
(By the way, the figures above don't include Plaid Cymru or the left-leaning Northern Ireland parties who would have typically added 1-2% to a centre-left vote total).
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Cheers fella
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Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel
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Thank God for that. I thought they'd lost her.
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Thank God for that. I thought they'd lost her.
Obviously the ones that have been doing it have legged it to their second home for Easter
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Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel
Anybody going to ask the main question
A few weeks ago she said "those earning under 25000 quid a year are unskilled and unwanted here" (paraphrased). Lots of the NHS is / was staffed by many Nurses etc that fit into that category
Get BBC to ask if she has changed her mind
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Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel
Maybe Cummings reads the vsc forum.
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Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel
Maybe Cummings reads the vsc forum.
That would explain some of the b*llocks he comes out with.
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Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel
Maybe Cummings reads the vsc forum.
That would explain some of the b*llocks he comes out with.
Very true BST.
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Go back to the start of March for example. Cummings was the champion of us not having a lockdown. Just like some on here were poo-poohing it and saying that talk of a lockdown was a stupid over-reaction.
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I see Gove is spending next week in discussions with the EU about Brexit details.
I'm literally lost for words.
e
you saw the line of "who takes over from who" whilst Borice is ill and unpreti Patel was even in front of him in the batting line up. So not a surprise.
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I doubt we will see Gove for a couple of weeks. He is in self-isolation - his Mrs got the virus this week.
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Todays lier in chief is Priti Patel
Ha ha I second that 😂😂
Maybe Cummings reads the vsc forum.
That would explain some of the b*llocks he comes out with.
Very true BST.
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I doubt we will see Gove for a couple of weeks. He is in self-isolation - his Mrs got the virus this week.
How you know that Wilts are you the 'Milkman' cough cough 😜😜😉
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I doubt we will see Gove for a couple of weeks. He is in self-isolation - his Mrs got the virus this week.
How you know that Wilts are you the 'Milkman' cough cough 😜😜😉
Red top, silver top or no top at all...
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It’s Saturday, I wonder if Priti will be back again
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Well Robert Jenrick today, I think people are getting fed up now of the Daily contest to evade as many questions as they can, these briefs are pointless, give us the figures and f**k off from our screens
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The problem is filo most of people moaned when they didn’t do them at the start
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Well Robert Jenrick today, I think people are getting fed up now of the Daily contest to evade as many questions as they can, these briefs are pointless, give us the figures and f**k off from our screens
No one is making you watch it.
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Well Robert Jenrick today, I think people are getting fed up now of the Daily contest to evade as many questions as they can, these briefs are pointless, give us the figures and f**k off from our screens
No one is making you watch it.
True, and I’ve not watched many lately for the reasons stated above, are you saying they are useful?
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The problem is if they stopped having them there would be a lefty outrage, not least on this forum!
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Here comes Tommy Opposite!
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I see that the herd is out in force tonight.
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Well Robert Jenrick today, I think people are getting fed up now of the Daily contest to evade as many questions as they can, these briefs are pointless, give us the figures and f**k off from our screens
No one is making you watch it.
True, and I’ve not watched many lately for the reasons stated above, are you saying they are useful?
Some days they are, certainly.
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The problem is if they stopped having them there would be a lefty outrage, not least on this forum!
Calm down! You're going that shade of pinkish gammon again.
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There you are BB, just a noise all the way from Spain.
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There you are BB, just a noise all the way from Spain.
That's OK Selby, it all goes to make the dago by.
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Cast a net and you will catch summat soon
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There you are BB, just a noise all the way from Spain.
That's OK Selby, it all goes to make the dago by.
Stuck in the 70s, eh Alf.?
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The problem is if they stopped having them there would be a lefty outrage, not least on this forum!
Calm down! You're going that shade of pinkish gammon again.
Wey hey, he's back. Coco el payaso.
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The problem is if they stopped having them there would be a lefty outrage, not least on this forum!
Calm down! You're going that shade of pinkish gammon again.
Wey hey, he's back. Coco el payaso.
Wey hey,a response from chupapollas!
I feel like I've been verbally gang banged by the the pensioners hit squad.
The usual suspects,I only need Sproty and its cantankerous bingo full house.
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Caught that same old little sprat lads, little old wobble gob again.
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Any one playing party politics with regard to the current situation needs to take a look at themselves imo.
This is a national crisis, well a world wide one actually so making party political comments is not what is required.
We should all be working together for the good of the human race, never mind just the UK.
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Any one playing party politics with regard to the current situation needs to take a look at themselves imo.
This is a national crisis, well a world wide one actually so making party political comments is not what is required.
We should all be working together for the good of the human race, never mind just the UK.
I agree Campsall, but in these dire times we need a bit of humour, and we always get it with Iberian.
Especially when he's trying to be serious.
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Bingo! Full house!
Or should that be Fool's house.
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With the PM being back at work today I would have exprcted him to do the daily briefing, but no, he stays in hiding!
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He wasn’t hiding this morning, giving his “I’m back and carry on doing as your told because we know best” speech outside no 10..
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I wonder if he had some other pressing business to attend to.
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Pressing business.?
Like ironing his shirts you mean.?
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I will set you up and you do the punchlines.
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I wonder if he had som3 other pressing business to attend to.
Na, we only have a prime minister in case there's a pandemic, apart from that they've got nowt to do!
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Ahh!
That'll explain why he had three weeks off in the first 7 weeks of the year.
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you tell me, I'm not one for conspiracies.
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I dunno BB.
But that PM job must be a doddle.
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Must be, maybe he's on the internet all day.
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It must be really easy.
Loads of people know how to do it better.
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It must be really easy.
Loads of people know how to do it better.
Don't think there's many that stupid enough to shake hands with the patients in a Covid ward without protection though.
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It must be really easy.
Loads of people know how to do it better.
Don't think there's many that stupid enough to shake hands with the patients in a Covid ward without protection though.
Can’t argue with that RR45.
Plenty of people seem to know how to do other stuff a lot better though, apparently.
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I know a few parties who don't know how to beat him at elections and referendum's and are still bitching about it.
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It's the suckers that voted for him that's the problem, we haven't seen the end result of anything he's done yet including any of the reports, Oh except when he ran London. :)
Added:
When I was a kid wandering around the market during race week there was always without fail someone with a cloth laid out on the road near the entrance to Bowers Fold, I never thought much about that then but it would have been good for a getaway.
There was a grid pattern on the cloth and on each cross point there was a folded piece of card with the various prices written, inside the card was the name of a horse. Those that bought the tips didn't know what they were getting.
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I know a few parties who don't know how to beat him at elections and referendum's and are still bitching about it.
Referendum’s.?
Plural.? (badly punctuated) - funny I could have sworn there was only one..
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And still bitching. Life is awful for losers.
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Look at the chain of this part of the thread Selby, see which poster posted a bitchy post..
I’ll give you a clue, it was you
and any way, how this government is dealing with the pandemic and everything that goes with it is nothing to do with past elections. So much for not making political point scoring eh.? Are you sat in front of your screen with your finger and thumb on your forehead in an L shape whilst you type.?
.
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And still bitching. Life is awful for losers.
Now that's a rather immature response.
They say wisdom comes with age.
However, so does dementia,reverting to being a child and nastiness.
It's interesting observing the direction you are taking.
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The majority of the electorate voted for it so it will finally happen. I don't see any of the current ministers struggling with corona virus I can't see them being capable of securing any worthwhile deal for the country.
I think that this could end up as a very hollow victory..
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It's all heading for a "no deal" we nor they are going to budge on the EU fishing in British waters so to me it's dead already