£500k - out of our transfer capabilities?

[DRFC85]

I know this has been mentioned on the Shackell thread, but thought the subject deserves a thread of its own…


In light of O'Driscolls comments on the OS about £500k being out of our transfer capabilities...What exactly are the capabilities/aims of the club this season? I'd have hoped that after a first year of consolidation, and a subsequent mid table finish we would look to push on for a top 10 finish, or possibly even 'a Blackpool' I'm not saying this is not our aim, but I'd also have hoped we might have had some cash to spend for these 'mouth watering' signings that Gartom has referred to in the past to aid us in reaching this position. Gartom, can you tell us, does SO'D have a reasonable amount of cash to spend to bring players into the club? Especially considering the club can expect up to £1.75m extra each year in revenue from the new deal struck with the Premier League.  

I am not too disappointed about not signing Shackell, we may have other irons in the fire for CB (i.e. a free transfer in the shape of Elliot Ward?), but I would be disappointed if we are left at the start of the season trying to pick up the 1 or 2 quality, but free players missed by other clubs… to be as prepared as possible for the new season, we need to have the majority of the new players training with the squad for a good few weeks before the season starts. I think I'd be even more disappointed if the 'mouth watering signings' statement was just another way of pushing season ticket sales with no intention of actually bringing this type of player in. Can you also assure us that we won't be left waiting for us to make our first signings of the season when all other teams are finishing their business!

[Shawndrfc]

come on you have to admit it is abit of a joke. It all comes down to this if we dont buy we go down simples. Weve lost sharp atm and shackell has gone, not forgetting roberts more or less gone aswell. Sign up all the out of contract then got to spend some money, maybe no daft amounts but atleast bring some players in to strengthen.

[DRFC85]

Precisely, nothing daft, I would be delighted if we got Ward and Sharp, and then 1 or 2 further frees to plug the gaps in the squad… Yes the initial investment for sharp may be £1m, but i'd see it as an investment, bangs in 20 goals a season for next few years (which is likely) and his value'll be back at £3 to £4m. Plus, what's more expensive losing the Championship revenue by taking a risk and getting relegated, or bringing in a player that can almost single handedly guarantee the goals required for safety.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Doesn't bother me too much that we're not shelling out big fees for players, although there are players that might be worth the exception, and the investment. Shackell being one of them.

I will be very suprised if Billy Signs for us. That fact that Shackell has gone, Roberts appears to be walking and we haven't tied down Oster or any new quality players, sends a message.

As we've mentioned before, you know who's going to be blamed for the lack of investment !

I think I better log-off, take a chill pill, have a holiday and log in again on 31 July and just hope we have enough to put a half decent team out.

Have a good summer !!

[mutleyrover]

I think that it is the fact teams like Barnsley are signing these players which gets us most annoyed.  Why should they have a bigger budget / greater pulling power than us? Same division, similar attendances etc, same sized club.. You would have therefore thought that a player who spent most of the season on loan here and reportedly enjoyed it would have chosen us!

I can appreciate that we cannot comnpete with the likes of Derby who have massive attendances for this league and therefore can offer better wages but Barnsley..... Please!

[MrFrost]

The fact that we have sold 4000 season tickets so far and the dingles 8000 might have something to do with it.

[Wellred]

MrFrost wrote:

The fact that we have sold 4000 season tickets so far and the dingles 8000 might have something to do with it.

The fact that our most expensive adult season ticket available before the discount ended was £440 compared to Barnsley's £365
and our cheapest being £320 compared to Barnsley's £299 may have something to do with that also!!!

Current season ticket prices.

Most expensive DRFC £460 Barnsley FC £365
Cheapest DRFC £400 Barnsley FC £299

[kittyslass]

Wellred wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

The fact that we have sold 4000 season tickets so far and the dingles 8000 might have something to do with it.

The fact that our most expensive adult season ticket available before the discount ended was £440 compared to Barnsley's £365
and our cheapest being £320 compared to Barnsley's £299 may have something to do with that also!!!

Current season ticket prices.

Most expensive DRFC £460 Barnsley FC £365
Cheapest DRFC £400 Barnsley FC £299

Also till 30th June under 12s FREE then just £25 for season ticket. Matchday tickets cheaper too!

[The L J Monk]

You get what you pay for. Barnsley are cheaper, but the standard of football is lower.

[bedale rover]

DRFC85 wrote:

I know this has been mentioned on the Shackell thread, but thought the subject deserves a thread of its own…


In light of O'Driscolls comments on the OS about £500k being out of our transfer capabilities...What exactly are the capabilities/aims of the club this season? I'd have hoped that after a first year of consolidation, and a subsequent mid table finish we would look to push on for a top 10 finish, or possibly even 'a Blackpool' I'm not saying this is not our aim, but I'd also have hoped we might have had some cash to spend for these 'mouth watering' signings that Gartom has referred to in the past to aid us in reaching this position. Gartom, can you tell us, does SO'D have a reasonable amount of cash to spend to bring players into the club? Especially considering the club can expect up to £1.75m extra each year in revenue from the new deal struck with the Premier League.  

I am not too disappointed about not signing Shackell, we may have other irons in the fire for CB (i.e. a free transfer in the shape of Elliot Ward?), but I would be disappointed if we are left at the start of the season trying to pick up the 1 or 2 quality, but free players missed by other clubs… to be as prepared as possible for the new season, we need to have the majority of the new players training with the squad for a good few weeks before the season starts. I think I'd be even more disappointed if the 'mouth watering signings' statement was just another way of pushing season ticket sales with no intention of actually bringing this type of player in. Can you also assure us that we won't be left waiting for us to make our first signings of the season when all other teams are finishing their business!

in the star it plainly says that we had agreed a fee with wolves for shackell but that our valuation of what he should be paid was less than what barnsley's was

thats the way it goes we make an offer and they accept/reject it

thats life

dont read any more in to it than that

[GM-MarkB]

bedale rover wrote:

DRFC85 wrote:

I know this has been mentioned on the Shackell thread, but thought the subject deserves a thread of its own…


In light of O'Driscolls comments on the OS about £500k being out of our transfer capabilities...What exactly are the capabilities/aims of the club this season? I'd have hoped that after a first year of consolidation, and a subsequent mid table finish we would look to push on for a top 10 finish, or possibly even 'a Blackpool' I'm not saying this is not our aim, but I'd also have hoped we might have had some cash to spend for these 'mouth watering' signings that Gartom has referred to in the past to aid us in reaching this position. Gartom, can you tell us, does SO'D have a reasonable amount of cash to spend to bring players into the club? Especially considering the club can expect up to £1.75m extra each year in revenue from the new deal struck with the Premier League.  

I am not too disappointed about not signing Shackell, we may have other irons in the fire for CB (i.e. a free transfer in the shape of Elliot Ward?), but I would be disappointed if we are left at the start of the season trying to pick up the 1 or 2 quality, but free players missed by other clubs… to be as prepared as possible for the new season, we need to have the majority of the new players training with the squad for a good few weeks before the season starts. I think I'd be even more disappointed if the 'mouth watering signings' statement was just another way of pushing season ticket sales with no intention of actually bringing this type of player in. Can you also assure us that we won't be left waiting for us to make our first signings of the season when all other teams are finishing their business!

in the star it plainly says that we had agreed a fee with wolves for shackell but that our valuation of what he should be paid was less than what barnsley's was

thats the way it goes we make an offer and they accept/reject it

thats life

dont read any more in to it than that

The point is though that O'Driscoll, on the O/S, says that £500k is way above our transfer capabilities. How can you read anymore into that, it's in black and white. If someone costs £500k, we aint got it, end of. Makes you wonder what the offer was actually that Wolves agreed on.

[bedale rover]

GM-MarkB wrote:

bedale rover wrote:

DRFC85 wrote:

I know this has been mentioned on the Shackell thread, but thought the subject deserves a thread of its own…


In light of O'Driscolls comments on the OS about £500k being out of our transfer capabilities...What exactly are the capabilities/aims of the club this season? I'd have hoped that after a first year of consolidation, and a subsequent mid table finish we would look to push on for a top 10 finish, or possibly even 'a Blackpool' I'm not saying this is not our aim, but I'd also have hoped we might have had some cash to spend for these 'mouth watering' signings that Gartom has referred to in the past to aid us in reaching this position. Gartom, can you tell us, does SO'D have a reasonable amount of cash to spend to bring players into the club? Especially considering the club can expect up to £1.75m extra each year in revenue from the new deal struck with the Premier League.  

I am not too disappointed about not signing Shackell, we may have other irons in the fire for CB (i.e. a free transfer in the shape of Elliot Ward?), but I would be disappointed if we are left at the start of the season trying to pick up the 1 or 2 quality, but free players missed by other clubs… to be as prepared as possible for the new season, we need to have the majority of the new players training with the squad for a good few weeks before the season starts. I think I'd be even more disappointed if the 'mouth watering signings' statement was just another way of pushing season ticket sales with no intention of actually bringing this type of player in. Can you also assure us that we won't be left waiting for us to make our first signings of the season when all other teams are finishing their business!

in the star it plainly says that we had agreed a fee with wolves for shackell but that our valuation of what he should be paid was less than what barnsley's was

thats the way it goes we make an offer and they accept/reject it

thats life

dont read any more in to it than that

The point is though that O'Driscoll, on the O/S, says that £500k is way above our transfer capabilities. How can you read anymore into that, it's in black and white. If someone costs £500k, we aint got it, end of. Makes you wonder what the offer was actually that Wolves agreed on.

precisely!!!

[River Don]

Especially considering the club has £1.75m extra each year in revenue from the new deal struck with the Premier League.

This makes absolutely no difference to Rovers muscle in the transfer market, in fact we're in a worse position since every other club has at least the same to chuck at players and some a great deal more.

[bedale rover]

River Don wrote:

Especially considering the club has £1.75m extra each year in revenue from the new deal struck with the Premier League.

This makes absolutely no difference to Rovers muscle in the transfer market, in fact we're in a worse position since every other club has at least the same to chuck at players and some a great deal more.

and isnt one of the conditions of this money that it is spent on academies etc?

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

But have we not got £500k because we're skint/tight?  Or have we not got £500k because we've already allocated, eg, £1m elsewhere?

[The L J Monk]

Or maybe we have got £500k but we don't feel the need to announce the fact to all and sundry. The fact that we agreed a fee with Wolves suggests we have got the money. I wouldn't take every quote that SOD feeds the media as gospel.

[GM-MarkB]

The L J Monk wrote:

Or maybe we have got £500k but we don't feel the need to announce the fact to all and sundry. The fact that we agreed a fee with Wolves suggests we have got the money. I wouldn't take every quote that SOD feeds the media as gospel.

As I said in another thread, maybe it's some superb spin and storytelling...however, if SOD really really wanted Shackell, would £501k been too much to ask ?

[bedale rover]

it wasnt the fee it was the wages that were the sticking point

[SkellowRover]

Apparently the fee was £300k.
What i'm disappointed in is the fact we couldn't compete with Barnsley in terms of a wage packet when we have a supposed richer board and that their income from tickets etc isn't much different from ours as their prices have been cheaper all around for ST's and matchday tickets for the last 2 seasons.
I just hope some of these \"mouth watering\" signings and the \"we we're going for a promotion push next season\" things JR told us come off, because the fact we got outmuscled by the dingles financially has me worried into how much \"spin\" we were sold in order to generate ST sales and how much is actually going to happen.

[sheffieldROVER]

i think u just hit the nail on the head skellow!

[GM-MarkB]

Richer Board eh ?

Well Mr Bramall was listed in The Times Rich List recently at a reported £485m. However, how much of that is actually ££'s in the bank as opposed to assets is anyone's guess. However, i've often wondered what him being a Director entails. Is it just something he can wheel out over the Port and Cigars at Dinner..

\"Oh yes, i'm a Director of a CCC Football Club, aren't I great ?\"

Or would you think that being mega rich, he was asked/did it to help the club financially ?

I would hope the latter. Let's be honest, he could probably shove his hand down the back of his sofa and find enough loose change to buy Shackell. As someone else pointed out, we could buy Sharp as an investment with a million of Bramall's money (+ the wages), then when he's bagged 25 goals next year, pushed Rovers into the play-offs and his stock has increased 5 fold, sell him and give Terry his money back and still be in clover.

Yes I know it's his own money and he doesn't have to spend any of it on the club, but if you've got £485m in the old Nat West, you're hardly going to miss a couple are you ?

However, how long has he been on the Board ? A couple of three years isn't it ?

I think i'm agreeing with Mr Frost here...try and find the post i'm on about  

[topnotch_Donny]

SkellowRover wrote:

Apparently the fee was £300k.
What i'm disappointed in is the fact we couldn't compete with Barnsley in terms of a wage packet when we have a supposed richer board and that their income from tickets etc isn't much different from ours as their prices have been cheaper all around for ST's and matchday tickets for the last 2 seasons.
I just hope some of these \"mouth watering\" signings and the \"we we're going for a promotion push next season\" things JR told us come off, because the fact we got outmuscled by the dingles financially has me worried into how much \"spin\" we were sold in order to generate ST sales and how much is actually going to happen.

Dont forget, we have the rent to pay for the KMS. I know that we get some money back through the car park revenue, but I bet we are still a couple of 100k down a year because of the ludicrous rent agreement.

And then you have to think of how many kiddies have season tickets, and the extremely cheap price that their seats cost.

And don't forget, Barnsley could be putting themselves in danger. How do we know they aren't living above their means?

One thing I do know is, we operate at huge deficit, and the wage bill is going to shoot through the roof in the summer because we have so many players that need their contracts renewing. That coupled with new signing, will mean that our wage bill will probably creep over the £7 million mark.

I'd say (and I am probably miles off) that before any player sales, we will operate at a couple of million loss, and this is taking into account the new improved TV deal.

No doubt the board will be plugging the gap again, so we should be grateful for that.Infact, we cant really moan if they sold one or two players a season to make ends meet, can we?

[bobjimwilly]

Nope, we can't.  

We should be grateful we have a club, it will always be in the black come the end of the season, we are competing well in the championship and have one of the best managers in the football league.

If you are unhappy with all that, taking into consideration  we only have average 10k attendance per game, you will always be unhappy IMO.

 

[SkellowRover]

topnotch_Donny wrote:
No doubt the board will be plugging the gap again, so we should be grateful for that.Infact, we cant really moan if they sold one or two players a season to make ends meet, can we?

Well you have to put it in context, in the 30+ years i've supported the club we have always been a selling club and if nothing had been said about signings etc then no we can't moan.
The fact of the matter is JR publically said we would have \"mouthwatering signings\" and \"have a squad to be pushing for promotion\". The facts are that not only have we so far failed to tie up any players that are coming out of contract like Oster etc but we have been outmuscled financially by Barnsley!!!! if it was a club like Derby or Forest then fair enough but the fact that a club that finished below us the last 2 seasons, have a large debt & have a similar income to us can do this really has me worried.

[Filo]

SkellowRover wrote:

The facts are that not only have we so far failed to tie up any players that are coming out of contract like Oster etc but we have been outmuscled financially by Barnsley!!!! if it was a club like Derby or Forest then fair enough but the fact that a club that finished below us the last 2 seasons, have a large debt & have a similar income to us can do this really has me worried.

Correct, I`ve got a felling of dejavu!

[River Don]

As I understand it Watson and Bramall came in because of their friendship with John Ryan. They wanted to help John and saw it as a way of giving something back to the town. Whenever I post this it's usually met with incredulity. BUT if you look at all that's happened at the Rovers since they've been involved nothing suggests that isn't the case.

John is still chairman.
They don't seek publicity and let John get on with running the club.
They haven't taken over the club as was widely assumed they would.
All 3 put in equal sums annually to boost the club coffers.

What you've got is a stable club without debt that's been able to hold its own in the Championship. I don't think it's a bad position to be in.

As for being out muscled by Barnsley, perhaps O'Driscoll just didn't value Shackle as highly as Robins does?

[Master Katesby]

Sounds bad but after having a season ticket for the last god knows I'm actually glad I haven't chosen to renew this season.

[jmt]

barnsley are a bigger club than us! they get at least 2-3k more fans weekly.
they have also played at a higher level than us for much, much longer.
this is not the board or managers fault, if it came to a choice between shackell and
ward, it should be ward every time for us, no transfer fee and can cover just about every
position in a team(sounds like a SOD signing all over).
all that said, shackell is one of the best centre backs i've seen at drfc.

[River Don]

Master Katesby wrote:

Sounds bad but after having a season ticket for the last god knows I'm actually glad I haven't chosen to renew this season.

If you don't mind me asking why did you decide not to renew this time?

[GM-MarkB]

River Don wrote:

As I understand it Watson and Bramall came in because of their friendship with John Ryan. They wanted to help John and saw it as a way of giving something back to the town. Whenever I post this it's usually met with incredulity. BUT if you look at all that's happened at the Rovers since they've been involved nothing suggests that isn't the case.

John is still chairman.
They don't seek publicity and let John get on with running the club.
They haven't taken over the club as was widely assumed they would.
All 3 put in equal sums annually to boost the club coffers.

What you've got is a stable club without debt that's been able to hold its own in the Championship. I don't think it's a bad position to be in.

As for being out muscled by Barnsley, perhaps O'Driscoll just didn't value Shackle as highly as Robins does?

I don't dispute anything you've said there. I think my earlier post could have been taken out of context if so desired. All credit to the 3 of them for keeping the club in the black for the past few years.

All I was suggesting was that, with so much money behind him, the businessman in Bramall could surely see a worthwhile investment in Billy Sharp. Barring major injury (touch wood where ever he goes) he will score goals (hopefully at the Keepmoat) and his stock will increase. Is a £1m + wages punt that much of a risk to a bloke with that much money ?