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Now it looks like Carrie, i mean Boris, is wanting to ban all gas boilers by 2035! Should be surge in sales in 2034.
Quote from: Axholme Lion on October 15, 2021, 11:35:19 amNow it looks like Carrie, i mean Boris, is wanting to ban all gas boilers by 2035! Should be surge in sales in 2034.This is putting the cart before the horse.Heat pumps aren't effective unless the property is very well insulated. Putting heat pumps in the UKs cold houses instead of gas boilers won't be very effective.Instead of subsidising heat pumps and banning gas boilers, the effort should be going into insulation.And they need to tighten up standards in house building now. We're still building properties with gas boilers today, when they could be laying ground heat source pipes and insulating to German standards.
Quote from: River Don on October 16, 2021, 02:26:01 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on October 15, 2021, 11:35:19 amNow it looks like Carrie, i mean Boris, is wanting to ban all gas boilers by 2035! Should be surge in sales in 2034.This is putting the cart before the horse.Heat pumps aren't effective unless the property is very well insulated. Putting heat pumps in the UKs cold houses instead of gas boilers won't be very effective.Instead of subsidising heat pumps and banning gas boilers, the effort should be going into insulation.And they need to tighten up standards in house building now. We're still building properties with gas boilers today, when they could be laying ground heat source pipes and insulating to German standards. It's not quite the case though.The industry is committed to alternatives to gas boilers, and the next step will be a gas/hydrogen mixture followed by a full conversion to hydrogen.Heat pumps are not the main choice as an alternative either. Heat pumps will play a part but we are seeing multiple sources and choices, mostly around heat pumps, solar, and a strong reliance on central boiler plant or district energy schemes with single family homes getting their hot water for heating and DHW through Heat Interface Units (HIU's).
Quote from: silent majority on October 16, 2021, 06:14:05 pmQuote from: River Don on October 16, 2021, 02:26:01 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on October 15, 2021, 11:35:19 amNow it looks like Carrie, i mean Boris, is wanting to ban all gas boilers by 2035! Should be surge in sales in 2034.This is putting the cart before the horse.Heat pumps aren't effective unless the property is very well insulated. Putting heat pumps in the UKs cold houses instead of gas boilers won't be very effective.Instead of subsidising heat pumps and banning gas boilers, the effort should be going into insulation.And they need to tighten up standards in house building now. We're still building properties with gas boilers today, when they could be laying ground heat source pipes and insulating to German standards. It's not quite the case though.The industry is committed to alternatives to gas boilers, and the next step will be a gas/hydrogen mixture followed by a full conversion to hydrogen.Heat pumps are not the main choice as an alternative either. Heat pumps will play a part but we are seeing multiple sources and choices, mostly around heat pumps, solar, and a strong reliance on central boiler plant or district energy schemes with single family homes getting their hot water for heating and DHW through Heat Interface Units (HIU's).I accept all of that SM but Johnson is promising a £5,000 grant to replace a gas boiler with a heat pump.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/10/14/households-pushed-scrap-gas-boilers-5000-grant/Whatever heating solution we go for, improving home insulation has to be the best start. For me that's where the investment should be going.Edit. On second reading that DT article is a bit misleading, it focuses on heat pumps. It might include other 'green' options.
It is not possible to use hydrogen as a replacement for gas with the current infrastructure.All pipework would need to be replaced.A low percentage blend is possible, but to meet climate goals it would need to be green hydrogen from renewable sources. The development of green hydrogen production will happen, but not at scale until some years hence.Hydrogen is unsuited to domestic heating and vehicles, where electrification offers greater payload. For home heating electric via heat pumps gives 400% efficiency, so where it is viable it is the best option.For new build, ground source where possible, air source if not, should be the default.Insulation is a fundamental, irrespective of the type of heat provided.Very disappointing strategy in total, far from what is needed.
What's the point in fifty years time we'll all be brown bread in any case. Why make ourselves miserable now when we won't be here in the future?
Quote from: Axholme Lion on October 20, 2021, 10:36:56 amWhat's the point in fifty years time we'll all be brown bread in any case. Why make ourselves miserable now when we won't be here in the future?Churchill 1940 in AL's Universe."I have nothing to offer but...ah f**k it. We'll all be dead in 50 years anyway. Let's make peace and have fun."
Quote from: albie on October 19, 2021, 02:12:43 pmIt is not possible to use hydrogen as a replacement for gas with the current infrastructure.All pipework would need to be replaced.A low percentage blend is possible, but to meet climate goals it would need to be green hydrogen from renewable sources. The development of green hydrogen production will happen, but not at scale until some years hence.Hydrogen is unsuited to domestic heating and vehicles, where electrification offers greater payload. For home heating electric via heat pumps gives 400% efficiency, so where it is viable it is the best option.For new build, ground source where possible, air source if not, should be the default.Insulation is a fundamental, irrespective of the type of heat provided.Very disappointing strategy in total, far from what is needed.Albie, I'm not sure where you're getting this from but it's not correct, or I should say the context isn't correct.For instance, you quote the efficiency of heat pumps but fail to note that the problems associated with that technology will cause the implementation of it to fail. The sheer cost alone will be a sizeable burden despite the grants that are available. The grant package is miles away from anything remotely workable.And I say all of that from a position of holding a senior position in the largest manufacturer of climate solutions globally, and that I sit on certain technical committee's that advise various governments around the world with what is possible.Electricity is the future, there's no doubt about that, and we are currently converting ships in various countries to run on electricity, we're also converting construction plant machinery to run on hydrogen. There are lots of success stories around, and we are leading the filed with many of these technologies, so much so that our own factories will be carbon neutral within the next few years.
Wonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?
Quote from: ravenrover on October 21, 2021, 09:42:43 amWonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.
Quote from: Axholme Lion on October 21, 2021, 11:45:45 amQuote from: ravenrover on October 21, 2021, 09:42:43 amWonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 21, 2021, 01:35:36 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on October 21, 2021, 11:45:45 amQuote from: ravenrover on October 21, 2021, 09:42:43 amWonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.It'll need to rise a bit to get over the bankings along the Trent side.
Quote from: Axholme Lion on October 21, 2021, 01:52:08 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 21, 2021, 01:35:36 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on October 21, 2021, 11:45:45 amQuote from: ravenrover on October 21, 2021, 09:42:43 amWonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.It'll need to rise a bit to get over the bankings along the Trent side.If all the ice on earth melts then sea level will rise 68 metres.
Quote from: normal rules on October 21, 2021, 09:07:14 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on October 21, 2021, 01:52:08 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 21, 2021, 01:35:36 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on October 21, 2021, 11:45:45 amQuote from: ravenrover on October 21, 2021, 09:42:43 amWonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.It'll need to rise a bit to get over the bankings along the Trent side.If all the ice on earth melts then sea level will rise 68 metres.Not in my lifetime.
Quote from: Axholme Lion on October 22, 2021, 08:34:31 amQuote from: normal rules on October 21, 2021, 09:07:14 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on October 21, 2021, 01:52:08 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on October 21, 2021, 01:35:36 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on October 21, 2021, 11:45:45 amQuote from: ravenrover on October 21, 2021, 09:42:43 amWonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.It'll need to rise a bit to get over the bankings along the Trent side.If all the ice on earth melts then sea level will rise 68 metres.Not in my lifetime.And in those 4 words lies the problem for future generations.