Sadlier

[NewDonny]

The point in fairness is that we didn't feel sadlier was worth a longer contract.  Would anyone have offered him longer terms last summer when he'd been a bit part player before that?

I think things are getting all a bit distorted here.

Sadlier came in, in his first season off the back off having already played a full season in Ireland, the season over there starts in Jan with pre season, actual league games start in Feb and finish in Nov, so when he joined DRFC in Jan he was never going to be playing a big part in that season as he had been playing for almost a year non stop already. It was always planned that he would play a bigger part in his first full season, ie the one just gone which he obviously did.

Absolutely but on an objective point of view was there enough to justify a new contract at that point? No there wasn't in my opinion.  It is a risk to not offer it and fair enough if the player then moves on to me.

The other option is to gamble the other way and it go wrongly, just like happened with Alex Kiwomya. Either way is a risk.

In essence I don't blame them for not offering a new contract at that point just as only agreeing 18 months was probably the right thing to do as he was unproven at this level.

Sorry BFYP, at what point?

[EasyforDennis]

The old chestnut of Sustainability v self sufficiency. No matter how many times you explain things over the years, some folk either don't get it or choose not to get it.

The broad principle since the 'three Amigos' came together remained the same throughout and beyond. They agreed to put in £1m each, each season, then depending on any losses and/or exceptional costs/transfers they would cover the shortfall. Being able to do that year on year is sustainable not self sufficient.

When wages spiralled after a couple of years in the Championship and crowds declined, then relegation, then its not rocket science to work out costs needed to be reduced.

Once JR left the party, 3 becomes 2, so work that out. The inception of Club Doncaster was designed to create extra income to cover that hole. Over time it has succeeded and exceeded which has kept us competitive but the principle of committing £1m each per season remained.

What S_M has explained time after time is the owners choose to continue with that principle and have been happy to cover those additional losses when expenditure doesn't match income. Without the owners commitment we still have a club that generates income via Club Doncaster but your guess is a good as mine as to what level that could support long term.

Wind the clock on and 3 has now become 1 plus Club Doncaster revenue.

TB has said he will continue to support the Club however, whether he has committed to putting in more than his £1m plus losses, I do not know. Whatever it is, I'm grateful for it.

Given all the above, with two recent promotions to the Championship and a relegation, I would suspect Rotherhams income will have exceeded ours however, its also likely their costs, wage bill etc through legacy contracts etc will have been higher too. It would be foolish to compare like for like as our paths have not mirrored theirs. Just because we have broadly similar fan bases means bugger all except that at our level, costs are finite and each club has to cut its cloth accordingly. Similar with Barnsley who have adopted a different approach, gone through ownership change and dealt with promotions and relegations. It's beyond comparison.

The fact is, the more income you can generate, you can take proportionately bigger risks so I have no doubt Rotherham could offer proportionately more wages to Sadlier than it would be sensible for us to do. That's just the reality of now.

For someone who claims to know an awful lot and thinks he is always right, there are quite a number of inaccuracies in that post.

[vaya]

Are you sure that he has recently moved to Cambridge.

NewDonny says he has. Are you saying he is wrong or lying? You appear to know him:

New Donny, you know my personal thoughts my friend.
Good luck to Keiran and yourself in the future.

He lives in Cambrigde. Had house in Doncaster but not lived there for a couple of months now.

Rotherham for Sads I would imagine.

Why would you imagine that?

Local club so a convenient move, they’ll have seen him play several times this season and he’s unlikely to get anything above a lower-end Championship club. Not saying he’s going there but it’s a pretty reasonable suggestion.

OK I take your point, but he lives in Cambridge though so not sure Rotherham is all that local for him but why is it unlikely he will get anything above lower end Championship?

Because they finished higher in the league.?

Are you saying that a 9th place finish (Covid or not) under DM, after the palaver of last summer - plus the way we were playing under DM and the direction we were going, is frustrating.?

That one of our local rivals finished above us and got promoted, matters little.

The question I ask is WHY they finished higher up the league. If it was because they pay higher wages then I suggest it isn't a very level playing pitch. If that is the case I can't see any reason why they can afford to invest more in the team than we can in ours. If it is down to our obsession with self-sufficiency maybe our investment bar is set a little too low compared to theirs.

Obsession with self sufficiency? Pumping in £2m a year hardly fits with that description BB.

Weren't we told that just before Covid struck the club didn't need the £2m financial input now as with the success of Club Doncaster we were self sufficient?

And your point is what exactly? I think its obvious that if the owners are pumping in £2m when they don't 'have' to then they're not obsessed with sustainability. What they're obsessed with is making sure DRFC can compete at a higher level while at the same time striving to bring the income level up to match the expenditure.

Well I keep reading that the directors are having to put in £2m a year to keep the club going. So you are saying that prior to Covid we was a totally sustainable club and the £2m was extra funding? In which case can we look forward to last seasons accounts being in the black?

Why would they be in the black next year?

Who mentioned next year?

Last season's - the next set.

Yes last seasons accounts which we will get this year. I would imagine due to Covid our accounts for this year wouldn't be so good. So how will that put us in the black next year?

Sorry. I'm done. I've no idea what point you're trying to make any more. It's like discussing Proust with Stanley Unwin.

[silent majority]

If Sadlier was offered the same terms (after coming in and not just establishing himself but being one of our better performers) he had every right to be disappointed and shop around.

You're assuming that's the offer that was made, my understanding is that it isn't correct.

[Filo]

If Sadlier was offered the same terms (after coming in and not just establishing himself but being one of our better performers) he had every right to be disappointed and shop around.

You're assuming that's the offer that was made, my understanding is that it isn't correct.

His dad claims he was offered the same terms, but then again he insinuated that he would n’t be going to Rotherham as he had moved back to Cambridge a couple of months ago, so a large pinch of salt should be taken on New Donny’s words

[Bentley Bullet]

The question was did Rotherham pay out more wages for their team than we did last season?

Not sure what relevance that question has - totally hypothetical........ money doesn't equal success - ask Sunderland.

No it doesn't, but lack of it guarantees failure.

Does it.?

What was Wycombe’s wage bill last season.?

I don't know, you tell me. There is always an exception to every rule, and if Wycombe have spent less money than anyone else below them in the league then that is an example of one of them. Having said that, such exceptions don't last and Wycombe will without any shadow of doubt struggle next season unless they invest more money into the team.

1) "Lack of investment ensures failure."


2) Example given of what is almost certainly one of the lowest funded clubs in the division succeeding.

3) "Ah well, yeah, err, APART from the ones who succeed on low investment."

It shows the rarity of such achievements of a low funded team when Wycombe Wanderers is used as an example. A team on lower-middle table form, they were promoted purely by being placed in a position they would never have been in had it not been for the season being cut short. 

[NewDonny]

If Sadlier was offered the same terms (after coming in and not just establishing himself but being one of our better performers) he had every right to be disappointed and shop around.

You're assuming that's the offer that was made, my understanding is that it isn't correct.

His dad claims he was offered the same terms, but then again he insinuated that he would n’t be going to Rotherham as he had moved back to Cambridge a couple of months ago, so a large pinch of salt should be taken on New Donny’s words

“Pinch of salt,” oh please come on, stop twisting things!

Kieran lived in a house he rented through the club which he vacated and moved out of a few months ago when it was clear the season was done and moved back down here to the family house in Cambridge. At that time he didn’t know where he was going as he was still considering the interest and offers on the table. As regards the contract, I think I am in a better position to know than you with a copy of it here in my office.

Anyway, good luck with the new season and I mean that most genuinely, we will all miss the Keepmoat and everyone at the club, its a great club with a great history and fan base, a good few of which I have got to know over this short time, we will always be looking out for Doncaster Rovers results.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The old chestnut of Sustainability v self sufficiency. No matter how many times you explain things over the years, some folk either don't get it or choose not to get it.

The broad principle since the 'three Amigos' came together remained the same throughout and beyond. They agreed to put in £1m each, each season, then depending on any losses and/or exceptional costs/transfers they would cover the shortfall. Being able to do that year on year is sustainable not self sufficient.

When wages spiralled after a couple of years in the Championship and crowds declined, then relegation, then its not rocket science to work out costs needed to be reduced.

Once JR left the party, 3 becomes 2, so work that out. The inception of Club Doncaster was designed to create extra income to cover that hole. Over time it has succeeded and exceeded which has kept us competitive but the principle of committing £1m each per season remained.

What S_M has explained time after time is the owners choose to continue with that principle and have been happy to cover those additional losses when expenditure doesn't match income. Without the owners commitment we still have a club that generates income via Club Doncaster but your guess is a good as mine as to what level that could support long term.

Wind the clock on and 3 has now become 1 plus Club Doncaster revenue.

TB has said he will continue to support the Club however, whether he has committed to putting in more than his £1m plus losses, I do not know. Whatever it is, I'm grateful for it.

Given all the above, with two recent promotions to the Championship and a relegation, I would suspect Rotherhams income will have exceeded ours however, its also likely their costs, wage bill etc through legacy contracts etc will have been higher too. It would be foolish to compare like for like as our paths have not mirrored theirs. Just because we have broadly similar fan bases means bugger all except that at our level, costs are finite and each club has to cut its cloth accordingly. Similar with Barnsley who have adopted a different approach, gone through ownership change and dealt with promotions and relegations. It's beyond comparison.

The fact is, the more income you can generate, you can take proportionately bigger risks so I have no doubt Rotherham could offer proportionately more wages to Sadlier than it would be sensible for us to do. That's just the reality of now.

For someone who claims to know an awful lot and thinks he is always right, there are quite a number of inaccuracies in that post.

Very rare that I claim anything, but go on, educate me.

[EasyforDennis]

The old chestnut of Sustainability v self sufficiency. No matter how many times you explain things over the years, some folk either don't get it or choose not to get it.

The broad principle since the 'three Amigos' came together remained the same throughout and beyond. They agreed to put in £1m each, each season, then depending on any losses and/or exceptional costs/transfers they would cover the shortfall. Being able to do that year on year is sustainable not self sufficient.

When wages spiralled after a couple of years in the Championship and crowds declined, then relegation, then its not rocket science to work out costs needed to be reduced.

Once JR left the party, 3 becomes 2, so work that out. The inception of Club Doncaster was designed to create extra income to cover that hole. Over time it has succeeded and exceeded which has kept us competitive but the principle of committing £1m each per season remained.

What S_M has explained time after time is the owners choose to continue with that principle and have been happy to cover those additional losses when expenditure doesn't match income. Without the owners commitment we still have a club that generates income via Club Doncaster but your guess is a good as mine as to what level that could support long term.

Wind the clock on and 3 has now become 1 plus Club Doncaster revenue.

TB has said he will continue to support the Club however, whether he has committed to putting in more than his £1m plus losses, I do not know. Whatever it is, I'm grateful for it.

Given all the above, with two recent promotions to the Championship and a relegation, I would suspect Rotherhams income will have exceeded ours however, its also likely their costs, wage bill etc through legacy contracts etc will have been higher too. It would be foolish to compare like for like as our paths have not mirrored theirs. Just because we have broadly similar fan bases means bugger all except that at our level, costs are finite and each club has to cut its cloth accordingly. Similar with Barnsley who have adopted a different approach, gone through ownership change and dealt with promotions and relegations. It's beyond comparison.

The fact is, the more income you can generate, you can take proportionately bigger risks so I have no doubt Rotherham could offer proportionately more wages to Sadlier than it would be sensible for us to do. That's just the reality of now.

For someone who claims to know an awful lot and thinks he is always right, there are quite a number of inaccuracies in that post.

Very rare that I claim anything, but go on, educate me.

Have you heard of David Blunt? I will just leave it at that.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/ceo-addresses-funding-concerns-doncaster-rovers-after-watson-family-departure-2939570

Well this answers my question and provides some further clarity.

[drfchound]

Are you sure that he has recently moved to Cambridge.

NewDonny says he has. Are you saying he is wrong or lying? You appear to know him:

New Donny, you know my personal thoughts my friend.
Good luck to Keiran and yourself in the future.

He lives in Cambrigde. Had house in Doncaster but not lived there for a couple of months now.

Rotherham for Sads I would imagine.

Why would you imagine that?

Local club so a convenient move, they’ll have seen him play several times this season and he’s unlikely to get anything above a lower-end Championship club. Not saying he’s going there but it’s a pretty reasonable suggestion.

OK I take your point, but he lives in Cambridge though so not sure Rotherham is all that local for him but why is it unlikely he will get anything above lower end Championship?

Hi wilts, sorry for the late response but I have had the pleasure
 of the company of one of my grandsons today and have just finished reading him his bedtime story.
Having read your post and then the rest of the thread I see that ND has answered most of the stuff you asked in responses to other posters.
The move by KS back to Cambridge is a temporary one, a bit like a student going home in the summer before renting another house in September.
He will be renting up here again so won’t be commuting from Cambridge on a daily basis as was being suggested.

[Filo]

Are you sure that he has recently moved to Cambridge.

NewDonny says he has. Are you saying he is wrong or lying? You appear to know him:

New Donny, you know my personal thoughts my friend.
Good luck to Keiran and yourself in the future.

He lives in Cambrigde. Had house in Doncaster but not lived there for a couple of months now.

Rotherham for Sads I would imagine.

Why would you imagine that?

Local club so a convenient move, they’ll have seen him play several times this season and he’s unlikely to get anything above a lower-end Championship club. Not saying he’s going there but it’s a pretty reasonable suggestion.

OK I take your point, but he lives in Cambridge though so not sure Rotherham is all that local for him but why is it unlikely he will get anything above lower end Championship?

Hi wilts, sorry for the late response but I have had the pleasure
 of the company of one of my grandsons today and have just finished reading him his bedtime story.
Having read your post and then the rest of the thread I see that ND has answered most of the stuff you asked in responses to other posters.
The move by KS back to Cambridge is a temporary one, a bit like a student going home in the summer before renting another house in September.
He will be renting up here again so won’t be commuting from Cambridge on a daily basis as was being suggested.

Thats not how it came across when his dad was dismissive of him joining Rotherham

[drfchound]

Are you sure that he has recently moved to Cambridge.

NewDonny says he has. Are you saying he is wrong or lying? You appear to know him:

New Donny, you know my personal thoughts my friend.
Good luck to Keiran and yourself in the future.

He lives in Cambrigde. Had house in Doncaster but not lived there for a couple of months now.

Rotherham for Sads I would imagine.

Why would you imagine that?

Local club so a convenient move, they’ll have seen him play several times this season and he’s unlikely to get anything above a lower-end Championship club. Not saying he’s going there but it’s a pretty reasonable suggestion.

OK I take your point, but he lives in Cambridge though so not sure Rotherham is all that local for him but why is it unlikely he will get anything above lower end Championship?

Hi wilts, sorry for the late response but I have had the pleasure
 of the company of one of my grandsons today and have just finished reading him his bedtime story.
Having read your post and then the rest of the thread I see that ND has answered most of the stuff you asked in responses to other posters.
The move by KS back to Cambridge is a temporary one, a bit like a student going home in the summer before renting another house in September.
He will be renting up here again so won’t be commuting from Cambridge on a daily basis as was being suggested.

Thats not how it came across when his dad was dismissive of him joining Rotherham

I wasn’t involved in that conversation Filo.

[eight over]

  I was told that their playing budget was £1.6 million more than ours last season, and having players still at the club from their season before in the Championship it was realistic.

I know this may not be the most popular but Rotherham are not by a massive distance but you need to accept facts

[NewDonny]

Are you sure that he has recently moved to Cambridge.

NewDonny says he has. Are you saying he is wrong or lying? You appear to know him:

New Donny, you know my personal thoughts my friend.
Good luck to Keiran and yourself in the future.

He lives in Cambrigde. Had house in Doncaster but not lived there for a couple of months now.

Rotherham for Sads I would imagine.

Why would you imagine that?

Local club so a convenient move, they’ll have seen him play several times this season and he’s unlikely to get anything above a lower-end Championship club. Not saying he’s going there but it’s a pretty reasonable suggestion.

OK I take your point, but he lives in Cambridge though so not sure Rotherham is all that local for him but why is it unlikely he will get anything above lower end Championship?

Hi wilts, sorry for the late response but I have had the pleasure
 of the company of one of my grandsons today and have just finished reading him his bedtime story.
Having read your post and then the rest of the thread I see that ND has answered most of the stuff you asked in responses to other posters.
The move by KS back to Cambridge is a temporary one, a bit like a student going home in the summer before renting another house in September.
He will be renting up here again so won’t be commuting from Cambridge on a daily basis as was being suggested.

Thats not how it came across when his dad was dismissive of him joining Rotherham

Well then you misread what I said or maybe just read what you wanted to read into it Filo, because thats exactly the situation as hound has suggested. As regards Rotherham, people were assuming that Rotherham at that time was where he was going and I simply tried, badly as it would seem now, to balance that theory out. At that precise time he had made no decision on where he was going, Rotherham was one of a number of clubs he was talking to and he was still thinking his options through, in fact as I recall he was away on holiday at the time and had taken a break from it all.

Quote simple really, not sure why you dont get it, maybe you dont want to get it Filo and love the drama of it all.

[silent majority]

Lets face facts though, Rotherham, by any stretch of the imagination don't pay excessive salaries, its why they are the yo-yo club in recent years. Any club that can still stay in the black whilst in the Championship are not overreaching themselves with salaries.

So, an odd choice for somebody with a burning ambition to play at Championship level and earn a Championship wage.

[roversdude]

Simple fact is though, wages aside he is at a Championship club

[Chris Black come back]

They are not good. Their last four seasons in the Championship saw them finish 4th from bottom, 4th from bottom, bottom and third from bottom.

At least we give it a decent shot when we were there. They are very poor and will be in life or death struggle with Wycombe for the wooden spoon.

[NewDonny]

Lets face facts though, Rotherham, by any stretch of the imagination don't pay excessive salaries, its why they are the yo-yo club in recent years. Any club that can still stay in the black whilst in the Championship are not overreaching themselves with salaries.

So, an odd choice for somebody with a burning ambition to play at Championship level and earn a Championship wage.

Note sure I understand the correlation between what Rotherham pay or don't pay SM with his burning ambition to play in the Championship. As I said earlier, he had a lot of options across the Championship and decided on Rotherham for a whole host of footballing reasons. What they offer him ticked all his criteria boxes.

Nothing odd in any of that.

[bpoolrover]

If he is on more than he would of been on here he has probably made the right choice no different than most of us would do

[Chris Black come back]

Almost certainly offered him League One football in circa 12 months.

[NewDonny]

They are not good. Their last four seasons in the Championship saw them finish 4th from bottom, 4th from bottom, bottom and third from bottom.

At least we give it a decent shot when we were there. They are very poor and will be in life or death struggle with Wycombe for the wooden spoon.

Thanks Chris, let's wait and see shall we!

[drfchound]

I would imagine that ND knows far more than anyone on here what attracted KS to Rotherham.
Whatever anyone says, he will be a Championship player next season and by the sound of things, will be earning more money than he would have done with us.

[RoversAlias]

They are not good. Their last four seasons in the Championship saw them finish 4th from bottom, 4th from bottom, bottom and third from bottom.

At least we give it a decent shot when we were there. They are very poor and will be in life or death struggle with Wycombe for the wooden spoon.

I think it would be the same for us now to be honest. The league has become so much more of a Premier League 2 in the last few seasons in terms of finances. And anyway, our last three Championship seasons have seen us finish 22nd, 24th and 21st, so not much different really.

I know they are our rivals and it smarts to lose a key player to them but really we are a very similar club to them and if the roles were reversed we'd no doubt be relishing nicking a good player off of them.

[drfchound]

They are not good. Their last four seasons in the Championship saw them finish 4th from bottom, 4th from bottom, bottom and third from bottom.

At least we give it a decent shot when we were there. They are very poor and will be in life or death struggle with Wycombe for the wooden spoon.

I think it would be the same for us now to be honest. The league has become so much more of a Premier League 2 in the last few seasons in terms of finances. And anyway, our last three Championship seasons have seen us finish 22nd, 24th and 21st, so not much different really.

I know they are our rivals and it smarts to lose a key player to them but really we are a very similar club to them and if the roles were reversed we'd no doubt be relishing nicking a good player off of them.

.......as happened last year with Jon Taylor.

[Pancho Regan]

The point in fairness is that we didn't feel sadlier was worth a longer contract.  Would anyone have offered him longer terms last summer when he'd been a bit part player before that?

I think things are getting all a bit distorted here.

Sadlier came in, in his first season off the back off having already played a full season in Ireland, the season over there starts in Jan with pre season, actual league games start in Feb and finish in Nov, so when he joined DRFC in Jan he was never going to be playing a big part in that season as he had been playing for almost a year non stop already. It was always planned that he would play a bigger part in his first full season, ie the one just gone which he obviously did.

Thanks for your contributions, time for you to move on now I think.

[Chris Black come back]

They are not good. Their last four seasons in the Championship saw them finish 4th from bottom, 4th from bottom, bottom and third from bottom.

At least we give it a decent shot when we were there. They are very poor and will be in life or death struggle with Wycombe for the wooden spoon.

I think it would be the same for us now to be honest. The league has become so much more of a Premier League 2 in the last few seasons in terms of finances. And anyway, our last three Championship seasons have seen us finish 22nd, 24th and 21st, so not much different really.

I know they are our rivals and it smarts to lose a key player to them but really we are a very similar club to them and if the roles were reversed we'd no doubt be relishing nicking a good player off of them.

True as that comparison might be, it was not one I was making. Distinct from what we did or might do in Championship, they are very poor.

As for Sadlier, good luck to him. My only concern is that folk on here don’t become the bitter Peterborough types complaining about how he left them in the manner which their Chairman alleged.

He did a good job for us but has left. Such is life.

[NickDRFC]

Plenty of bitterness already in this thread!

[Pancho Regan]

Lets face facts though, Rotherham, by any stretch of the imagination don't pay excessive salaries, its why they are the yo-yo club in recent years. Any club that can still stay in the black whilst in the Championship are not overreaching themselves with salaries.

So, an odd choice for somebody with a burning ambition to play at Championship level and earn a Championship wage.

Note sure I understand the correlation between what Rotherham pay or don't pay SM with his burning ambition to play in the Championship. As I said earlier, he had a lot of options across the Championship and decided on Rotherham for a whole host of footballing reasons. What they offer him ticked all his criteria boxes.

Nothing odd in any of that.

In my humble opinion your contributions on here are doing no favours to the feelings we have about your son’s status as a former Donny Rovers player.

I loved watching Sadlier in the Rovers team and I wish he was still with us.
But he’s not.
He’s decided to leave us and sign for Rotherham.
That’s fine, good luck to the lad.

But I think you should leave this forum now because your posts are doing no favours to your son’s legacy amongst the Rovers fans, and it would be a shame to spoil the image we are left with about Sadlier.

You’re doing your son no favours. It’s time you joined the Millers fans forum.

[drfchound]

I can’t agree with that post Pancho.
There are more people interested in hearing what ND has to say than there are people asking him to leave the forum.
ND has frequently said that he has made lots of friends on here and that he wishes us well for the future.
There have been some very inaccurate posts written about KS and ND has just been putting the record straight.