Rochdale sack Bentley

[Butchers Red]

Always sad to see a proper old fashioned club like Dale suffering, look at their recent seasons trajectory and we are following pretty closely I'm afraid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65088466

[Campsall rover]

Always sad to see a proper old fashioned club like Dale suffering, look at their recent seasons trajectory and we are following pretty closely I'm afraid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65088466

We are 3 times the size of Rochdale as a football club and as a Town/City.
As you say we are following close behind them in our free fall.

Rochdale will always at best be a league 2 club apart from possibly the odd season where they over achieve.
That has shown through out their history.

Doncaster have under achieved for the majority of its footballing history.
This club has the potential to be a sustainable Championship football club with ave attendances of 13 / 14.000
Only JR has seen the potential and had the ambition to make it happen since the heady days of late 1940’s 50’s
Unfortunately he did not have enough money to sustain it and TB/DB were not prepared to invest the sums required to keep us in tier 2

With that investment and the right commercial activity with more pro active marketing of match day tickets this club IS sustainable in the Championship

Any one who says otherwise is imo wrong.  Please don’t tell me Barnsley should have achieved far more than DRFC have over the last 60 yrs.
since 1958 this club was desperately poorly run & or under funded right up to JR taking over.

The Vision needs to return. This board are not prepared to fund that vision. That has become quite obvious now.
The major worry is they are not even prepared to fund a team capable of being competitive in League 1.

If they are wanting any achievement on the field of play then Managerial and player recruitment must match that ambition.

The proof is in the seeing.  Are we going to see it?   The hour has come.  Let’s see it. NOW.
I am not holding my breath.

Never been so disillusioned as I am right now.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Unfortunately , I'm one of those who am wrong in your eyes.

"Doncaster have under achieved for the majority of its footballing history.
This club has the potential to be a sustainable Championship football club with ave attendances of 13 / 14.000
Only JR has seen the potential and had the ambition to make it happen since the heady days of late 1940’s 50’s
Unfortunately he did not have enough money to sustain it and TB/DB were not prepared to invest the sums required to keep us in tier 2"

It's an irony that you say in that paragraph that it became unsustainable for JR. Despite all of his vision and effort to get us there, the attendances were dropping after the novelty and excitement of the journey that got us to the Championship.

He said himself on many occasions 'I just wish the Doncaster public would come out and support us" He also said if you . want to keep the quality of players, you're going to have to pay for it. You can't expect the owners to keep putting in six figures sums each season".

We debated with him at the time, increasing ticket prices wasn't the right way to go but that's another story.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with ambition and generating the excitement that goes with it but it needs to be realisti and sustainable. We know the Donny public have been 'fickle' and that goes back decades. You only have to look at the fluctuation in attendances through the fifties and the more lean years through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s with very few successes along the way.

Just my opinion but historically, I think generally, Barnsley fans seem to stick together in difficult times better than we have.

Of course there's potential. It already exists and we hope sooner or later we see better times  it doesn't really matter about the destination sometimes, it's how we get there.

[Alan Southstand]

We’ll, what about Rotherham?

[dickos1]

We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championship

[Reg of the Rovers]

We shouldn't be though - the infrastructure is there - good stadium, city population etc. Burnley has a population a quarter the size of Donny but can get 20k in and have a Champ/Prem team. We suffer for having bigger neighbours but we really haven't done enough off or on the pitch to grow our fanbase.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championship

Best average attendance that first season in the Championship was 11,959 which was the best since the 50s.

What about Rotherham? Yes, that's where we should be aiming and no reason why it shouldn't be possible however, as when I was talking to my Millers fan mate, the sensible ones understand they are experiencing the good times and don't take it for granted. They know they are punching above their weight and are extremely thankful Tony Stewart has been smart and sensible will his approach when yo yo'ing between League One and the Championship. They also know he won't be around forever.

Another factor was sticking with a rookie manager who established a formula that worked with the resources available to him.

It will take up to another generation to rebuild the fan base, a period of relative stability and success, to bring back the disallusioned, chip away at the sceptics and those occasionals who come out for the big games. The future doesn't lie with old gits like me, it's the younger fans who'll come with their mates and eventually their offspring etc.

Maybe that does have to come from new ownership who can appeal and tap into the youth and wider public.

Since I supported Rovers from the mid sixties, playing Southport, Workington, Cambridge, Rochdale, Halifax,  Walsall, Crewe etc was the norm and even with the bright period under Bremner you could say those of us who supported the club overs those years were patient if nothing else.!! Ha ha.

[Alan Southstand]

We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championship

We were not that far away, but we certainly are now!

[Campsall rover]

Unfortunately , I'm one of those who am wrong in your eyes.

"Doncaster have under achieved for the majority of its footballing history.
This club has the potential to be a sustainable Championship football club with ave attendances of 13 / 14.000
Only JR has seen the potential and had the ambition to make it happen since the heady days of late 1940’s 50’s
Unfortunately he did not have enough money to sustain it and TB/DB were not prepared to invest the sums required to keep us in tier 2"

It's an irony that you say in that paragraph that it became unsustainable for JR. Despite all of his vision and effort to get us there, the attendances were dropping after the novelty and excitement of the journey that got us to the Championship.

He said himself on many occasions 'I just wish the Doncaster public would come out and support us" He also said if you . want to keep the quality of players, you're going to have to pay for it. You can't expect the owners to keep putting in six figures sums each season".

We debated with him at the time, increasing ticket prices wasn't the right way to go but that's another story.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with ambition and generating the excitement that goes with it but it needs to be realisti and sustainable. We know the Donny public have been 'fickle' and that goes back decades. You only have to look at the fluctuation in attendances through the fifties and the more lean years through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s with very few successes along the way.

Just my opinion but historically, I think generally, Barnsley fans seem to stick together in difficult times better than we have.

Of course there's potential. It already exists and we hope sooner or later we see better times  it doesn't really matter about the destination sometimes, it's how we get there.

Don’t forget Barnsley reached the Premier League in 1998/99 think it was.
Their attendances went up to 18/20.000 & the that made a massive difference to them and their support base has been increased due to that.
I can remember Barnsley averaging less than 4.000 gates at one time before their resurgence in the 1980’s

Now DBR I have the utmost respect for you. Your one of the most sensible level headed posters on this forum so don’t please take this personally.
 
You say you are one of those that disagree with me ( and I am sure there will be many ) and you’re all entitled to your opinion if course.
But there lies the problem. There seems to be an inferiority complex in Doncaster by so many of its inhabitants. ( Not just Football related )  It is a can’t do attitude that prevails in Doncaster, not a we can attitude. 
We are just little old Donny, just a little old pub team batting above its weight attitude. Well believe me we are batting well below our weight right now. That attitude is so un inspiring and negative.

The past is history it’s not the future.

But the past has proved that this club can compete in the 2nd tier of English football. The club did it in the 30’s and again for a 9 yr spell from late 40’s to 57/58 and then more recently in the the last 15 years for a total of 5 seasons 4+1
Yes JR put out a war cry for more support of course he did. He was brilliant at selling the club to the Doncaster public. Just look at the difference now. David Blunt is our Chairman and we hear absolutely nothing from him to promote the club. Siltch, nowt, even less than that.
Now I know he isn’t JR and I am north asking him to be but he is so desperately dour and seems to have no empathy with the fans whatsoever.
JR didn’t have the funds to invest into the team in 2010 which was needed to build on the 1st 2 seasons  mid table finishes in the Championship.  Attendances fell as results declined that was inevitable.
If Funds had been made available maybe we could have held on to players the ilk of Mills, Shackell, Wellens & Sharp.
If we had stayed in the 2nd tier then the money from the EFL & Sky and the increased revenue from commercial activities etc would have given the club a serious chance of establishing  themselves at that level long term.

Please don’t tell me it can’t be done again and done better next time.  Of course it can. 
It’s all about having ambition, belief and a plan to achieve. It’s about a “we can do” attitude not a “we can’t do” attitude which seems to be the one that prevails around the Club at present.
With ref to the board it seems to be a “we do not want to do anymore” attitude right now.

Millwall, Luton and Even Rotherham are not doing too badly are they.  The first 2 have really established themselves in the 2nd tier.
Millwall get gates of 13/14000 when in the top 7 less & only 11/12.000 when not doing as well.
Luton only get 10.000 gates ( ground only holds that no ) neither club have spent large sums by 2nd tier standards to achieve their current status.
Rotherham doing so much better than us ( under statement )  Why?  Ambition. A we can achieve attitude from Stewart their owner.

[dickos1]

We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championship

We were not that far away, but we certainly are now!

We were averaging 8-9-10k in the championship and that’s with much bigger away crowds.
What we have now is irrelevant to the arguement,

Point is we can never be a championship club without someone blowing a load of money on us and never expecting any of it back

[EasyforDennis]

10 years ago we won the league 1 title. Bournemouth came 2nd and Brentford remained in League 1. Oh how times have changed.

[Alan Southstand]

It would be nice just to be competing at the top end of league 1, first. The point is there is one hell of a lot of people that have, for whatever reason, flown the nest!

It’s time to get back on the right path, because we’re certainly on the wrong one, currently.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Unfortunately , I'm one of those who am wrong in your eyes.

"Doncaster have under achieved for the majority of its footballing history.
This club has the potential to be a sustainable Championship football club with ave attendances of 13 / 14.000
Only JR has seen the potential and had the ambition to make it happen since the heady days of late 1940’s 50’s
Unfortunately he did not have enough money to sustain it and TB/DB were not prepared to invest the sums required to keep us in tier 2"

It's an irony that you say in that paragraph that it became unsustainable for JR. Despite all of his vision and effort to get us there, the attendances were dropping after the novelty and excitement of the journey that got us to the Championship.

He said himself on many occasions 'I just wish the Doncaster public would come out and support us" He also said if you . want to keep the quality of players, you're going to have to pay for it. You can't expect the owners to keep putting in six figures sums each season".

We debated with him at the time, increasing ticket prices wasn't the right way to go but that's another story.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with ambition and generating the excitement that goes with it but it needs to be realisti and sustainable. We know the Donny public have been 'fickle' and that goes back decades. You only have to look at the fluctuation in attendances through the fifties and the more lean years through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s with very few successes along the way.

Just my opinion but historically, I think generally, Barnsley fans seem to stick together in difficult times better than we have.

Of course there's potential. It already exists and we hope sooner or later we see better times  it doesn't really matter about the destination sometimes, it's how we get there.

Don’t forget Barnsley reached the Premier League in 1998/99 think it was.
Their attendances went up to 18/20.000 & the that made a massive difference to them and their support base has been increased due to that.
I can remember Barnsley averaging less than 4.000 gates at one time before their resurgence in the 1980’s

Now DBR I have the utmost respect for you. Your one of the most sensible level headed posters on this forum so don’t please take this personally.
 
You say you are one of those that disagree with me ( and I am sure there will be many ) and you’re all entitled to your opinion if course.
But there lies the problem. There seems to be an inferiority complex in Doncaster by so many of its inhabitants. ( Not just Football related )  It is a can’t do attitude that prevails in Doncaster, not a we can attitude. 
We are just little old Donny, just a little old pub team batting above its weight attitude. Well believe me we are batting well below our weight right now. That attitude is so un inspiring and negative.

The past is history it’s not the future.

But the past has proved that this club can compete in the 2nd tier of English football. The club did it in the 30’s and again for a 9 yr spell from late 40’s to 57/58 and then more recently in the the last 15 years for a total of 5 seasons 4+1
Yes JR put out a war cry for more support of course he did. He was brilliant at selling the club to the Doncaster public. Just look at the difference now. David Blunt is our Chairman and we hear absolutely nothing from him to promote the club. Siltch, nowt, even less than that.
Now I know he isn’t JR and I am north asking him to be but he is so desperately dour and seems to have no empathy with the fans whatsoever.
JR didn’t have the funds to invest into the team in 2010 which was needed to build on the 1st 2 seasons  mid table finishes in the Championship.  Attendances fell as results declined that was inevitable.
If Funds had been made available maybe we could have held on to players the ilk of Mills, Shackell, Wellens & Sharp.
If we had stayed in the 2nd tier then the money from the EFL & Sky and the increased revenue from commercial activities etc would have given the club a serious chance of establishing  themselves at that level long term.

Please don’t tell me it can’t be done again and done better next time.  Of course it can. 
It’s all about having ambition, belief and a plan to achieve. It’s about a “we can do” attitude not a “we can’t do” attitude which seems to be the one that prevails around the Club at present.
With ref to the board it seems to be a “we do not want to do anymore” attitude right now.

Millwall, Luton and Even Rotherham are not doing too badly are they.  The first 2 have really established themselves in the 2nd tier.
Millwall get gates of 13/14000 when in the top 7 less & only 11/12.000 when not doing as well.
Luton only get 10.000 gates ( ground only holds that no ) neither club have spent large sums by 2nd tier standards to achieve their current status.
Rotherham doing so much better than us ( under statement )  Why?  Ambition. A we can achieve attitude from Stewart their owner.

Broadly agree. The future of the club isn't old gits like me. It's with the younger generations, their friends, family and offspring etc, as I've said further down the thread. It will take time to rebuild the fanbase  and maybe new owners might bring new stimulus.

By the way, attendances in the Championship started to decline in our second season when results were better. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that when we had a chance at the play offs, when we got beat by Plymouth at home, then Blackpool made the decisive dash into the play off places?

I'll never say never as that kills the hope .

[murham]

This board have always only wanted to provide a league 2 side for the city…….no matter what has been said
We have been fobbed off since big John left and as a city we deserve better
The team plays with the same boring enthusiasm as the board,
But I still watch…whose the idiot

[DonnyBazR0ver]

This board have always only wanted to provide a league 2 side for the city…….no matter what has been said
We have been fobbed off since big John left and as a city we deserve better
The team plays with the same boring enthusiasm as the board,
But I still watch…whose the idiot

I suppose it was their fault Marosi slipped at the wrong time then Rowe & Marquis missed their penalties?

Come on, let's be reasonable. They chose to carry on funding when JR left. I refuse to be over critical of owners who continued to fund the club beyond what anyone has done before JR, during JR and after JR.  It doesn’t make any of them gods and doesn't make them bad owners either.

[normal rules]

We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championship

Ave home attendances for the first championship season was a shade over 11k. The lowest was 9500 ish (Swansea)

[roversdude]

Oh for a chairman with the drive of JR and pockets to match

[Campsall rover]

We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championship

We were not that far away, but we certainly are now!

We were averaging 8-9-10k in the championship and that’s with much bigger away crowds.
What we have now is irrelevant to the arguement,

Point is we can never be a championship club without someone blowing a load of money on us and never expecting any of it back

Dickos we averaged 11.940 in 2008/09 season. In the season we were relegated the average was 9.300 which was the experiment season. The two in between seasons were just under 11.000 and around 10.000
The point is the potential is there in this City to grow the support base to fill our current stadium.
If we averaged 2.000 away fans in the 2nd tier we would need 13.000 home fans.
Don’t tell me a city with a Met population of 309.000 can’t attract that no to watch us play in the 2nd tier.

It’s about marketing is’nt it. Pro active marketing. Something this club is not great at and even in JR’s era could have been better. JR himself was the clubs most effective publicity machine. He made sure the club was on the map through his constant media appearances.

Don’t forget dickos our gates went from 7.000 to 12.000 overnight when we were promoted in 2008
Yes more away fans but that was a significant increase.
If we had got the funding in 2010 to take us to the higher echelons of the 2nd tier and we were not far off having a top 6 team in 2009, then we would have built our fan base further. 

Far too many people with this little Donny attitude. 

Look what Burnley have achieved. A town with 85.000 people and catchment area of no ,ore than 125.000

Before the 1960’s they were no where. They developed a fantastic youth policy had a brilliant scouting network, particularly in the North East. The rest is history.

They have achieved something that in the modern era should not really be possible. But they have.

[drfchound]

Another thing to consider is sponsorship opportunities.
I think it is fair to say that potential sponsors are more likely to come forward to associate themselves with a winning, exciting team at the top end of L1 or doing well in the Championship.
An investment to get us into such a position could be money well spent as the sponsorship gain would add to our sustainability.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Funeral/wills company would be an appropriate sponsor at the moment. Get your affairs in order before the long decline

[Campsall rover]

Another thing to consider is sponsorship opportunities.
I think it is fair to say that potential sponsors are more likely to come forward to associate themselves with a winning, exciting team at the top end of L1 or doing well in the Championship.
An investment to get us into such a position could be money well spent as the sponsorship gain would add to our sustainability.

That goes without saying hound.  Businesses want to be associated with success not failure.

[Colemans Left Hook]

Always sad to see a proper old fashioned club like Dale suffering, look at their recent seasons trajectory and we are following pretty closely I'm afraid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65088466

now can we please sack Bentley Bullet from the P & O Manager

[Campsall rover]

Always sad to see a proper old fashioned club like Dale suffering, look at their recent seasons trajectory and we are following pretty closely I'm afraid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65088466

now can we please sack Bentley Bullet from the P & O Manager

Yes it’s all BB ‘s fault. Far too many predictions we are going to lose every week.
Nothing to do with DS is it.
BB you’re sacked. Someone has got to be the fall guy for this garbage we have to sit through each week.

[Bentley Bullet]

Ironically, there's an overall majority of optimism at the moment for Saturday's Crewe game.

CLH/CR, I'm not quitting as the P&O manager. I'm not one for leaving a sinking ship.

[dickos1]

We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championship

We were not that far away, but we certainly are now!

We were averaging 8-9-10k in the championship and that’s with much bigger away crowds.
What we have now is irrelevant to the arguement,

Point is we can never be a championship club without someone blowing a load of money on us and never expecting any of it back

Dickos we averaged 11.940 in 2008/09 season. In the season we were relegated the average was 9.300 which was the experiment season. The two in between seasons were just under 11.000 and around 10.000
The point is the potential is there in this City to grow the support base to fill our current stadium.
If we averaged 2.000 away fans in the 2nd tier we would need 13.000 home fans.
Don’t tell me a city with a Met population of 309.000 can’t attract that no to watch us play in the 2nd tier.

It’s about marketing is’nt it. Pro active marketing. Something this club is not great at and even in JR’s era could have been better. JR himself was the clubs most effective publicity machine. He made sure the club was on the map through his constant media appearances.

Don’t forget dickos our gates went from 7.000 to 12.000 overnight when we were promoted in 2008
Yes more away fans but that was a significant increase.
If we had got the funding in 2010 to take us to the higher echelons of the 2nd tier and we were not far off having a top 6 team in 2009, then we would have built our fan base further. 

Far too many people with this little Donny attitude. 

Look what Burnley have achieved. A town with 85.000 people and catchment area of no ,ore than 125.000

Before the 1960’s they were no where. They developed a fantastic youth policy had a brilliant scouting network, particularly in the North East. The rest is history.

They have achieved something that in the modern era should not really be possible. But they have.

Yes so nowhere near the 13-14k mentioned.
The met population is irrelevent, places like Scunthorpe are included in that.
People in doncaster don’t follow the rovers it’s always been like it, even when we were around the playoffs in the championship we were only getting 6-7k home fans.
We need big investment to get to the championship, and not many clubs our size make it.

[Bentley Bullet]

If my memory serves me right, Rovers attracted more fans than Rotherham did in the Championship.

[Campsall rover]

We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championship

We were not that far away, but we certainly are now!

We were averaging 8-9-10k in the championship and that’s with much bigger away crowds.
What we have now is irrelevant to the arguement,

Point is we can never be a championship club without someone blowing a load of money on us and never expecting any of it back

Dickos we averaged 11.940 in 2008/09 season. In the season we were relegated the average was 9.300 which was the experiment season. The two in between seasons were just under 11.000 and around 10.000
The point is the potential is there in this City to grow the support base to fill our current stadium.
If we averaged 2.000 away fans in the 2nd tier we would need 13.000 home fans.
Don’t tell me a city with a Met population of 309.000 can’t attract that no to watch us play in the 2nd tier.

It’s about marketing is’nt it. Pro active marketing. Something this club is not great at and even in JR’s era could have been better. JR himself was the clubs most effective publicity machine. He made sure the club was on the map through his constant media appearances.

Don’t forget dickos our gates went from 7.000 to 12.000 overnight when we were promoted in 2008
Yes more away fans but that was a significant increase.
If we had got the funding in 2010 to take us to the higher echelons of the 2nd tier and we were not far off having a top 6 team in 2009, then we would have built our fan base further. 

Far too many people with this little Donny attitude. 

Look what Burnley have achieved. A town with 85.000 people and catchment area of no ,ore than 125.000

Before the 1960’s they were no where. They developed a fantastic youth policy had a brilliant scouting network, particularly in the North East. The rest is history.

They have achieved something that in the modern era should not really be possible. But they have.

Yes so nowhere near the 13-14k mentioned.
The met population is irrelevent, places like Scunthorpe are included in that.
People in doncaster don’t follow the rovers it’s always been like it, even when we were around the playoffs in the championship we were only getting 6-7k home fans.
We need big investment to get to the championship, and not many clubs our size make it.

So 12.000 is no where near 13.000 dickos.   

As BB points out our gates were bigger in the Championship than Rotherham’s are.
But they are surviving in that league. When they have gone down on last 2 occasions they went straight back up.
Don’t remember Rotherham spending large sums of money on players transfer fees either.
Don’t know what their wage bill is this season but I bet it’s than less than 6 million. Of which half of that they will get from EFL payments and Sky money.
They are where they are due to 2 reasons. Tony Stewart their owner who is ambitious and having a terrific Manager in Paul Warne who new how to get the best out of the players at his disposal.
He has gone now but the new guy iMatt Taylor is also doing a very decent job. 

[dickos1]

Your original point was we have the potential to be a sustainable championship club with average gates of 13-14k.
That’s just a pipe dream, we may have averaged 11.9k for one season but that soon dwindled down pretty quickly.

[Chris Black come back]

The reality is that we should absent of major external investment or the type that doesn’t exist and if it did we wouldn’t want it, we should be aiming for a top half League One existence. That’s achievable and sustainable. It’s a good level of the game and a world away from League Two. There is decent football and decent teams in League One.

The reality equally is that we are on verge of bottom half League Two and look entirely at home there, with little sign we will move forward next season.

This is the tragedy of the current situation.

[roversdude]

Ahhh just being facetious but Paul Warne the vastly experienced manager that Rotherham appointed