To end the debate(s)

[MrFrost]

Or will it potentially start another one?

Obviously a number of threads on here over the last few days have ruffled a few feathers.
I think the time has come to agree to disagree, as it is now at the point where it is starting to get a little silly. I'll hold my hands up to playing a part in that.

My view points haven't changed, but at least I can accept people see things differently and can do this without resorting to petty name calling.

We've covered everything. From race to religion to politics. Can we have something a bit more light hearted now?

[scarbrook]

Mcdonalds or Burger king????????????

[not on facebook]

mr frost carry on keyboarding in what you think/feal
and belive fella.

just because somebody can construct a more detailed and better dissscussion againts your case it dont mean they are correct as it dont mean you are correct.

it's all about opinions and if all and sundry had the same opinion life would  be dull to say the least.

some of your points i aggree with and some iam still trying to take on board while other points i would say are off the mark.

i could not construct my opinion in detail with facts figures
as to how it has been done on here,i can only tell you how i feal on matters wrong or right.

i would say the threads on here have been a good read and you will find more and more vsc members are popping in to see whats
what or whats not

[DonnyNoel]

Agreed Oslo, I'm nowhere near the level of political knowledge that I should be as I reach a point in life where things like the economy and education and employment become even more important to me and I've learnt so much on this off-topic forum that I say let the debates continue. They don't get too silly, not when you read the personal insults that start to fly on other forums when discussing the same thing.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think it's a positive to the forum, lots of us have differing opinions on every single issue and I think it makes for good discussion.

[BobG]

So do I actually!

My only real gripe is anyone who picks selective points to buttress a case without acknowledging that the case, by definition therefore, has holes - and that consequently the case put forward might need amending. Arguing a case requires logic, fact and clear thinking. Trying to argue from emotion is simply pointless. Three years spent debating life, the universe and everything at 3 in the morning in any university teaches you how make an argument. Woolly thinking gets crucified...

BobG

[Nudga]

BobG wrote:

So do I actually!

My only real gripe is anyone who picks selective points to buttress a case without acknowledging that the case, by definition therefore, has holes - and that consequently the case put forward might need amending. Arguing a case requires logic, fact and clear thinking. Trying to argue from emotion is simply pointless. Three years spent debating life, the universe and everything at 3 in the morning in any university teaches you how make an argument. Woolly thinking gets crucified...

BobG

As I said the other day,I knew it was all about show casing peoples University learning.  

[Snods Shinpad 2]

Nudga wrote:

BobG wrote:

Three years spent debating life, the universe and everything at 3 in the morning in any university teaches you how make an argument. Woolly thinking gets crucified...

BobG

As I said the other day,I knew it was all about show casing peoples University learning.  

Don't believe a word of it mate. He probably spent all his time trying to score dope and get laid. I know I did.  

[Barmby Rover]

Listening to debates carried out by those with more talent than yourself is part of University life, education teaches you one thing Nudga, that you actually know very little despite the fact that you have a piece of paper gained in three years. Life teaches you that having a piece of paper does not make you better than others, and that everybody has intelligence and can teach you something, don't be so afraid of chipping in lad, your stance on life, or at least the procreation of it is always an interesting one!        

[BobG]

Absolutely!

I hope my post didn't come across as a sort of 'I know more...' type thing. What I was trying to say was that the presentation of an argument needs practice. And I know nowhere better than a room full of reasonably intelligent folk who can spot a non sequitur, or a failure of logic, or a sneaky move away from the subject under debate to more comfortable ground, and make sure you know it too! You soon learn.....

We've seen all of those weaknesses, in Spades, in these threads. And they destroy all the credibility of those posting them.

BobG

[BLIR]

Anybody else disappointed by this thread? I thought we we're going to have a good ol' fashioned punch up.

It was warming up nicely, name calling was getting more viscious, people calling each other \"keyboard warriors\" and proposing a meet.

I thought at one point we might get some handbags involved  

Can we get a handbag related emoticon?

[Barmby Rover]

BLIR =   (double stirrer!)  

[BillyStubbsTears]

Barmby Rover wrote:

Listening to debates carried out by those with more talent than yourself is part of University life, education teaches you one thing Nudga, that you actually know very little despite the fact that you have a piece of paper gained in three years. Life teaches you that having a piece of paper does not make you better than others, and that everybody has intelligence and can teach you something, don't be so afraid of chipping in lad, your stance on life, or at least the procreation of it is always an interesting one!        

Barmby - Bob. Bang on!

The more educated you get, the more you realise just how little you know. Or at least that's how it SHOULD work if education works.

A couple of examples.

1)Leonardo da Vinci, one of the greatest geniuses of all time and the perfect example of a Renaissance Man who had deep learning across a huge range of topics, from art, to aerodynamics and military engineering. He wanted to be able to accurately draw horses and human bodies. So he studied anatomy with great surgeons. Learning how the muscles, bones, tendons interacted and produced the surface feature you see when a horse gallops or an athlete throws a discus. But from his studies, he also realised that he would never in one lifetime really, truly, fully understand how the anatomies that he had studied actually functioned. And he realised that this was just one tiny aspect of all that there was to know. As a reult, he had some form of nervous breakdown or depression, and hardly worked for many years.

2) Isaac Newton. Perhaps the greatest scientific genius in History. Said in his old age, \"I may have seemed to others to have a deep insight into the workings of Nature, but to me, I seemed like a little child on a beach, occasionally delighting in the shape and colour of this of that pebble, whilst behind me, unknown to me, lay the great Ocean of true Knowledge.\"

[BobG]

Snods Shinpad 2 wrote:


Don't believe a word of it mate. He probably spent all his time trying to score dope and get laid. I know I did.  [/quote]

Sadly, Snod, I didn't learn the joys of dope, and other things, until after I had left academe. Don't know why. Just never came across it. Made up for it since though

The getting laid bit I cannot deny though

Set me off remembering that has.....

Cheers

BobG

[BobG]

PS. Quick reply to BST

And it teaches you not to pontificate about stuff you don't know much about too. How many people on here have noticed, for example, that, ignoring football, you, Billy, post a lot about politics and economics, but not much about anything else, Dutch Uncle posts a lot about statistics but not much about other subjects (though I happen to know he could if he chose), I post a lot about history and politics but not much about anything else whilst Mr Frost, unsurprisingly, posts a lot about politics, economics, social issues, race, and not much about few things.

Let's have a guess at which subjects each of those four studied at university eh?

Cheers

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

BobG wrote:

PS. Quick reply to BST

And it teaches you not to pontificate about stuff you don't know much about too. How many people on here have noticed, for example, that, ignoring football, you, Billy, post a lot about politics and economics, but not much about anything else, Dutch Uncle posts a lot about statistics but not much about other subjects (though I happen to know he could if he chose), I post a lot about history and politics but not much about anything else whilst Mr Frost, unsurprisingly, posts a lot about politics, economics, social issues, race, and not much about few things.

Let's have a guess at which subjects each of those four studied at university eh?

Cheers

BobG

Nice theory Bob, but I'm sorry to disappoint you. I studied Civil Engineering at University!

So...I'm rumbled as someone spouting about politics without the benefit of a formal education. Mind, I WAS (in a Rik off The Young Ones stylee) a left wing student activist at Loughborough University in the mid 80s. Me and about...err...3 others.

Now, if someone starts a topic about the pros and cons of pre-stressed concrete, I'm yer man.

EDIT: Oh aye, and what a 'kin' mistake it was going to THAT University! Town about as kicking as Mexborough on a non-Market day. University full of autistic engineers and (male) potential sports superstars (I shared a flat with an 18 year old Steve Backley in my final year). Chances of getting laid? About 0.1% on any given night out.


Mind, being a Denaby lad, I had a Plan B and could play the intellectual or the bit of rough as appropriate. Or even at the same time.

[BobG]

Ah well... Theories are just that. Hypotheses to be tested., modified, abandoned as the evidence dictates. Funny that.....

BobG

[ScillyRover]

MrFrost wrote:

Or will it potentially start another one?

Obviously a number of threads on here over the last few days have ruffled a few feathers.
I think the time has come to agree to disagree, as it is now at the point where it is starting to get a little silly. I'll hold my hands up to playing a part in that.

My view points haven't changed, but at least I can accept people see things differently and can do this without resorting to petty name calling.

We've covered everything. From race to religion to politics. Can we have something a bit more light hearted now?

..... You mean, something like Football ? ... heaven forbid !!!

 

[Glyn_Wigley]

Sorry Bob, but I was the economics and politics student!

[Nudga]

Barmby Rover wrote:

Listening to debates carried out by those with more talent than yourself is part of University life, education teaches you one thing Nudga, that you actually know very little despite the fact that you have a piece of paper gained in three years. Life teaches you that having a piece of paper does not make you better than others, and that everybody has intelligence and can teach you something, don't be so afraid of chipping in lad, your stance on life, or at least the procreation of it is always an interesting one!        

Never been afraid to chip in Barmby, but I can only chip in with life experience as I do not understand politics on the same level as some of our most learned forum members. So with this in mind, I tend to shy away from debates such as this because ultimately, I would be shot down within 3 seconds and I wouldn't be able to come back with anything. And it's not being ignorent either, I do have a thirst for learning but some things I just simply can't grasp.
And as politicians are not the most honourable of people, it's very hard for me to vote for a particular party. I just wish that some other party could have a go and see what they can do, like the Green Party for instance who had a very positive way of creating jobs for people which would have had a positive effect on the economic recovery without having to slash this, that and the other. And again, would they have kept their promises once they were in???

Now if we were to have a topic on The Greek Bronze Age period, I could talk about that all day long, and not because I studied history at Uni as I never went, but because I love reading history books in this period and it's something i'm interested in.

[Barmby Rover]

And that is why I like this forum, when I started reading it there was a debate about the local history of Donny going back to the Roman/Saxon/Viking times and loads of stuff was on it I had no idea about. Same with the cave system explored a couple of years ago. Get started on your Bronze age stuff lad, it will be an interesting topic to read.

[jucyberry]

I don't think you need an indepth knowledge to be able to join in, one man's opinion is just as valid as the next.  We aren't running the country. We don't have to know the letter down to the n'th degree..

Afterall, if there was only one collective thought there would be no scope for change. To be alive is to gain experience, and with experience comes knowledge... How arty farty does that sound, but you know what I mean..

I'll be the first to admit my education was bog standard, A+ in English, u for utter crap at maths, numbers did, and still do terrify me, my brain can't take them in, so I do skim over any post that contain statistics, I just don't understand them..and graphs...yuk. sorry BST..

I guess most people if they have an enquiring mind will continue to learn even after they leave school at 16, we all have subjects that facinate us after all.

[CusworthRovers]

All opinions have some weight to that person and it's good that they feel confident to air them, be them right or wrong. I had opinions when I was a teenager that are vastly different to what they are now. I had opinions in my 20's that are now different. You change with developing life skills and your own circs. You will become more vehement in certain views, you may change certain views. One thing that I feel is correct is that you gain more knowledge as you get older in far more subject areas .........that's the circle of life just like it was for Simba the lion.

[Sandy Lane]

scarbrook wrote:

Mcdonalds or Burger king????????????

Ok, I'll bite!  :-)  Never went to McDonald's 'Hamburger University', but know a little about burgers...  ;-)   Don't usually eat there, but if I had to choose:

I like BK's Bacon Double Cheeseburger -- hold the onions and ketchup so you can really taste the cheese and bacon!

But McDonald's chips/fries are better.

[CusworthRovers]

Fries- Macdonalds
Shakes- Macdonalds
Burgers- Burger King


However, one must consider The Colonel in all this. Although not the best Fries, he beats them all with any chicken he does. His gravy his bo, and he seems to be tackling the shakes market with his Krushens.

Full respect and many salutes go the Colonel

[Savvy]

Just Slightly off subject but whats the verdict vis-a-vis the coffee market thats sprung up?

Costas versus Starbucks versus Coffee Nation et al!

Loving the Costas hazlenut latte, but wouldn't ever be tempted to try anything to eat there. £2 for a caramel slice no bigger than the average todger, I just couldn't ever be that fecking hungry!!!

[Pintolager]

Daddy or Chips?

BYEEEEE