Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Padge_DRFC on February 01, 2014, 10:47:18 pm
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Ok it's shocking at the Keepmoat, the only way to improve this is the people that want to create an atmosphere rather than sit in one and not contribute all stand in the same area. Blackpool showed everybody all in one area = a good atmosphere.
So next season where are people and where could we buy season tickets for to make this happen?
What has happened to the drum despite people moaning about it, it's clearly apparent that with it the atmosphere is better than without it.
I also think the atmosphere as well as what happens on the pitch will contribute to how many we get through the gate. I know loads that only go to away games as they don't find it enjoyable having to sit down quietly for 90 minutes and purely don't go for that reason.
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I recommend SS if you want to sing and East stand cente if you want to quietly listen to moanssssssssss.
I agree the drummer is an important way to gte things started .Unfortunately the fabulous away sing/ chant group dissiate when it comes to home games .SS is by far the nearest we'll get to a singing kop.
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It's why I spend my money going away games instead because yesterday was only my 3rd home game of the season. Because the whole day experience is not worth the money the atmosphere is shocking. Also no disrespect to the people playing but having someone play a guitar and sing or playing in a band does not belong at a football match it reminds me too much of a fun day.
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Towards the north end of the west stand is where the singers should congregate. this whole presumption of the singers being in the south stand I'd stupid, were not Liverpool, it's not a kop. we simply don't have enough singers to fill the south stand with noise. I propose everyone that wants to sing move to the north end of the west stand. oh and leave the drum at home.
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I think that atmosphere at an away game starts as soon as you get out of bed, especially if it's a long journey . You are looking forward to it as soon as you wake up. You meet up and travel with other fans and mostly only discuss football. If you are married or in a relationship it's time out, a mini holiday.
You aren't driving so can have a few pre match beers, this relaxes you even more. You haven't come here to be miserable, you're going to let the home fans how loud you can be and gee up the players.
Contrast this with a home game. You get up and maybe have to go to work for a few hours, not the best start.
Because your partner has the kids all week you get up early to give them breakfast and keep them entertained.
Alternatively, you are going to the match so are told/asked,"Take me shopping first, you have all afternoon to yourself".
Then there is always the DIY that you have promised to do.
You finally get to the Keepmoat, knackered, have a quick couple of pints maybe if you aren't driving, daren't have too many if you are going out that night or don't want to upset your lass.
The two possible scenarios show how different the mood can be between home and away.
That's my thoughts anyway for what it's worth. :scarf:
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It's why I spend my money going away games instead because yesterday was only my 3rd home game of the season. Because the whole day experience is not worth the money the atmosphere is shocking. Also no disrespect to the people playing but having someone play a guitar and sing or playing in a band does not belong at a football match it reminds me too much of a fun day.
Hmmm.,.. I go to the football to watch my team on the pitch.
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Towards the north end of the west stand is where the singers should congregate. this whole presumption of the singers being in the south stand I'd stupid, were not Liverpool, it's not a kop. we simply don't have enough singers to fill the south stand with noise. I propose everyone that wants to sing move to the north end of the west stand. oh and leave the drum at home.
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The north end of the west stand is cringey, it's got about 15 people under the age of 20 who get mocked by the away fans the whole game. If a singing section is to happen it would be the ss.
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It's why I spend my money going away games instead because yesterday was only my 3rd home game of the season. Because the whole day experience is not worth the money the atmosphere is shocking. Also no disrespect to the people playing but having someone play a guitar and sing or playing in a band does not belong at a football match it reminds me too much of a fun day.
Hmmm.,.. I go to the football to watch my team on the pitch.
Not everyone is the same.
I can think of 10 people off the top of my head who don't go to games any more because the whole experience for them is crap.
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The north end of the west stand is cringey, it's got about 15 people under the age of 20 who get mocked by the away fans the whole game. If a singing section is to happen it would be the ss.
Which is why the singers in the south should move to the north end of the west stand.
The south stand is simply too big to create an atmosphere of any note, plus the away fans can't hear you from there
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The more a club tries to be a friendly family club the worse the atmosphere is going to be. The atmosphere equation is this-
(The % of the crowd that are Men between 16 and 40) X (Units of alcohol consumed)= Atmosphere
This is why it's better away from home, people drink more and the young rowdy lads aren't diluted by families and old people.
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It's why I spend my money going away games instead because yesterday was only my 3rd home game of the season. Because the whole day experience is not worth the money the atmosphere is shocking. Also no disrespect to the people playing but having someone play a guitar and sing or playing in a band does not belong at a football match it reminds me too much of a fun day.
Hmmm.,.. I go to the football to watch my team on the pitch.
Not everyone is the same.
I can think of 10 people off the top of my head who don't go to games any more because the whole experience for them is crap.
Back with a negative vengeance I see. Why don't you tell the 10 people you know to come along; my thinking is if we all thought that way then we might as well stop the club now.
Typical Donny thinking let everyone else do the work and if the atmosphere is crap ...…...then don't bother coming at all ! Bloody pathetic, these are the freeloading types that just wait for the free tickets ? Please elaborate Frosty…....
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People in the south stand will complain if they have to move to accommodate a singing section. So what I say, move them. Something needs to be done.
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The north end of the west stand is cringey, it's got about 15 people under the age of 20 who get mocked by the away fans the whole game. If a singing section is to happen it would be the ss.
Which is why the singers in the south should move to the north end of the west stand.
The south stand is simply too big to create an atmosphere of any note, plus the away fans can't hear you from there
For once I tend to agree with you the SS is diluted by 3000 ''watchers".
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You can't hear the ss from the away end so agree its pointless having it there
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You can hear the away end from the SS though! 😁
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Is it not the players that we are supposedly singing to and not the away fans, the players can clearly hear the SS when their name is chanted before kick off, even when stood on half way line.
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It's why I spend my money going away games instead because yesterday was only my 3rd home game of the season. Because the whole day experience is not worth the money the atmosphere is shocking. Also no disrespect to the people playing but having someone play a guitar and sing or playing in a band does not belong at a football match it reminds me too much of a fun day.
Hmmm.,.. I go to the football to watch my team on the pitch.
Not everyone is the same.
I can think of 10 people off the top of my head who don't go to games any more because the whole experience for them is crap.
Back with a negative vengeance I see. Why don't you tell the 10 people you know to come along; my thinking is if we all thought that way then we might as well stop the club now.
Typical Donny thinking let everyone else do the work and if the atmosphere is crap ...…...then don't bother coming at all ! Bloody pathetic, these are the freeloading types that just wait for the free tickets ? Please elaborate Frosty…....
Some of them have been to the odd game, two yesterday for the first time in a while, and they didn't enjoy it.
As much as you might not like it, the experience of the KMS puts people off going. These are supporters who went to every game at Belle Vue and were there during our relegation to the Conference, not "freeloaders"
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I've got to agree there Frosty as I fit into that category, the only way the atmosphere will improve is un-reserved seating or safe standing.
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mr Frost .. surely with your enthusiasm you can persuade those 10 see the error of their ways .
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I do wonder what happened to the creative minds from the Pop stand?
I know a couple are doing Rovers Player commentary but it the songs that the South Stand come up with are awful and generic.
Get some of those people back together from the middle of the Pop, and get the South stand kids blasting them out.
Agree about moving it from the South Stand as well as you can't hear it half way down the West, never mind the away end.
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Going tp Home games should always be a priority, when you attend away games you are feathering the nests of our opponents, I can't believe that we have got morons supporting us who only go to away games.....idiots! :rtid:
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The "Kop" should always be the hub of the hard core fan for me.
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Unfortunately, people go to games as they see fit, home and away (unless you're a ST holder when hopefully you go to most home games) calling them 'morons' and 'idiots' because they attend more away games than home games is pathetic in the extreme.
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It's why I spend my money going away games instead because yesterday was only my 3rd home game of the season. Because the whole day experience is not worth the money the atmosphere is shocking. Also no disrespect to the people playing but having someone play a guitar and sing or playing in a band does not belong at a football match it reminds me too much of a fun day.
Hmmm.,.. I go to the football to watch my team on the pitch.
Not everyone is the same.
I can think of 10 people off the top of my head who don't go to games any more because the whole experience for them is crap.
Wasn't it you who was rubbishing the argument that "not everyone is the same" a while ago when there was a debate about people picking and choosing their away games based on grounds they've not visited before?
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I couldnt attend yesterdays game because of illness so I listened to the game on Player, it sounded like there was a good atmosphere to me.
I could hear the south side chants and also the Boro chants.
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The "Kop" should always be the hub of the hard core fan for me.
we haven't got a kop at the keepmoat, the south stand is too wide and shallow. what also makes a kop a kop are the fans inside there. unfortunately most if the fans in the southstand are mutes.
There just aren't enough singers to make a decent atmosphere on the southstand because its too big, wide and shallow.
That's why it would work a lot better for the singers to be in the north end of the west stand, because its a smaller area, and all the singers will be closer together.
Just look at Middlesbrough and how their red faction works.
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I do wonder what happened to the creative minds from the Pop stand?
I know a couple are doing Rovers Player commentary but it the songs that the South Stand come up with are awful and generic.
Get some of those people back together from the middle of the Pop, and get the South stand kids blasting them out.
Agree about moving it from the South Stand as well as you can't hear it half way down the West, never mind the away end.
You can't hear it because half the people there don't sing. My mate was in that bit of the North they opened up when we played Swansea and he said he could hear us fine.
Besides, let's not forget. When we did have a "singing section" in that bit near the away end against Notts County everyone sat down and stopped singing about 10 minutes into the game. And this was before their goals.
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Unfortunately, people go to games as they see fit, home and away (unless you're a ST holder when hopefully you go to most home games) calling them 'morons' and 'idiots' because they attend more away games than home games is pathetic in the extreme.
Why pray tell?
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The more a club tries to be a friendly family club the worse the atmosphere is going to be. The atmosphere equation is this-
(The % of the crowd that are Men between 16 and 40) X (Units of alcohol consumed)= Atmosphere
This is why it's better away from home, people drink more and the young rowdy lads aren't diluted by families and old people.
There is a lot of truth in this but I don't think creating a family friendly stadium means 'the lads' can't be accommodated.
I don't have any issue with the East stand being home to the family section, the prawn sandwich premier club and supporters of more mature years, who generally don't want to sing but will occasionally tell the linesman where he can put his flag.
I think the club do need to create an unrestricted section in the South stand and let it be known to existing season ticket holders, that is what it is to be and that they will only be able to buy a season ticket for the section and not reserve a particular seat. Finding alternative seats wouldn't be a problem in the East or West. Pay on the gate should always be available at the South Stand.
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Another issue is our support isn't passionate enough. Boro had 4200 there yesterday, every one of them stood for the full game and sang. Try standing at one of our away games, unless you're on the back couple of rows and people will moan at you at best or at worst threaten you.
Then there's the issue that none of our fans will compromise and move from the west to the south or vice versa.
For me, unless there is some kind of massive shift in the way people think, nothing will ever change.
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It isn't fair comparing our home support with the away support. Away supporters are always more vocal. That said I suspect the atmosphere our home crowd generates doesn't compare too well with the Boro home support.
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This subject is one that's raised at every football club up and down the country, we're no different.
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This subject is one that's raised at every football club up and down the country, we're no different.
It's because they've designed atmosphere out of the new stadia.
I listened to Sir Norman Foster explaining his vision of the new Wembley, how it was all about space and openness and great sight lines, big seats with excessive large amounts of legroom so you don't need to get up and letting in the light, etc, etc.
Yes, I thought but a football stadium needs to be steep and claustrophobic and dark under a low roof and close up hard to the pitch to generate a good atmosphere.
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This subject is one that's raised at every football club up and down the country, we're no different.
It's because they've designed atmosphere out of the new stadia.
I've been in the KM when it's been a good atmosphere. Can't blame the stadium design fully.
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from Barnsley forum....
SWFC Fans
How bad was the atmosphere
23k of them and they hardly created a noise
Barnsley fans were fantastic from start to finish ( apart from smashing the seats at full time)
Just reminded once again how thank full I am to not have to sit in that shit hole week in week out
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This subject is one that's raised at every football club up and down the country, we're no different.
It's because they've designed atmosphere out of the new stadia.
I've been in the KM when it's been a good atmosphere. Can't blame the stadium design fully.
Not fully but it doesn't help. Actually the KM can generate a decent atmos when it's fuller. Part of the problem is, it's often half empty.
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Got to agree with others.
North Stand for away fans.
East Stand for those prawn sarny fans, families and those who just want to go sit and get engrossed in the football.
South and West unreserved. Yes, have season tickets for those stands but not reserved seating. Pay on the day for the south stand.
If the singers are organised enough they'd get there early, congregate and plan the afternoons singing.
For me no one wants to get to the seats early so the atmosphere doesnt get a chance to build up. People get to the seats last minutes after beers have been drunk or they rock up to the kms just in time.
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That's a pretty good point. On away days the singers are usually in at least half an hour before kick off and all congregate in one area and everyone who wants to be a part of it goes and stands over near them, and more often than not there'll be a few songs before the game even kicks off.
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How far is safe standing from happening?
Main problem with ss too many people want to sit down and be in an atmosphere but just sit down and make no noise and contribute.
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At 61yrs old i go to watch football not to sing . i also sit in the north east stand and have been known to join in with the 15 or so kids as stated. i for one think if u want the banter this is the section for u singers.Close to the away fans to answer chants back. Also i find it heard to ear what the south stand are singing from my seat may b this is because of my age (selective Dea :chair: :chair: :rtid: :rtid:fness)
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At 61yrs old i go to watch football not to sing . i also sit in the north east stand and have been known to join in with the 15 or so kids as stated. i for one think if u want the banter this is the section for u singers.Close to the away fans to answer chants back. Also i find it heard to ear what the south stand are singing from my seat may b this is because of my age (selective Dea :chair: :chair: :rtid: :rtid:fness)
Yeah it completely failed last time it was tried.
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I sit behind the goal and I really think it's time to move and make it a standing section towards the away end. Where everybody stands. Not just the back 2 rows. Nearly every ground has a large standing section. In some cases 35000 stand at Old Trafford behind both goals. City next to the away fans Manchester and Hull and so on so on.
Season tickets are £299 there as well.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Numbers don't equal atmosphere. 500 fans can easily make more noise than 4000. It just depends on the willingness of the fans to sing.
We took 3000 fans to Newcastle, and didnt sing all game, in fact several Newcastle fans proclaimed we were the quietest fans ever to visit st James park!
Contrast this to 300 accrington Stanley fans, who also out sang us at the keepmoat. it's not just about numbers
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Numbers don't equal atmosphere. 500 fans can easily make more noise than 4000. It just depends on the willingness of the fans to sing.
We took 3000 fans to Newcastle, and didnt sing all game, in fact several Newcastle fans proclaimed we were the quietest fans ever to visit st James park!
Contrast this to 300 accrington Stanley fans, who also out sang us at the keepmoat. it's not just about numbers
Very true I have seen 1000 of our fans at away games mocking 20000 home fans for their lack of noise. Forsome reason though our supporters are even reluctant to clap the team on at our home games .....I just don't get it ??
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Got to agree with others.
North Stand for away fans.
East Stand for those prawn sarny fans, families and those who just want to go sit and get engrossed in the football.
South and West unreserved. Yes, have season tickets for those stands but not reserved seating. Pay on the day for the south stand.
If the singers are organised enough they'd get there early, congregate and plan the afternoons singing.
For me no one wants to get to the seats early so the atmosphere doesnt get a chance to build up. People get to the seats last minutes after beers have been drunk or they rock up to the kms just in time.
Totally unrealistic and unfair to have the whole south and west unreserved. Middle of the west stand = best views in the ground - there would be no end of problems at each game if that were to be made unreserved, and so will never happen.
Btw most of the west stand don't stand and sing all game either, it's not just the east stand. Trying to make the South stand more of a cop is the best idea. When the south stand is in full voice it can be heard from north stand, it's just it doesn't happen too much. Not enough room on north west to house everyone who likes to stand and sing in south stand currently.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
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Ah yes, Boro fans. I was up at the Riverside for our game there in December, and it was like a graveyard.
And yet… Donny fans contributed to one of the greatest ever atmospheres at the Amex in 2011, for our opening match. Of course it was a special occasion, with a really exciting ending. But although everyone was sitting down, the sense of occasion just blew everyone away. Stadium acoustics were excellent, and of course that helped.
But the experience proved that modern grounds are not somehow all automatically soulless bowls. And that the atmosphere really does come from the crowd, and from the extent to which they are fired up. You can do all of that even while sitting down.
Seems to me that the real issue is that too many British people feel uncomfortable about shouting and singing loudly in public. But, if an occasion is exciting enough to sweep away that self-consciousness, then football fans anywhere can create a fantastic atmosphere - regardless of the actual surroundings.
Perhaps we can all prove that next Saturday!
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Not enough room on north west to house everyone who likes to stand and sing in south stand currently.
I'm fairly sure there is room for an extra 50 people from the South stand in the North West. :lol:
There's loads of room. In fact there's a whole block of seats that are netted off. Open them up.
Like i've pointed out, the mentality of the majority of our supporters means the chances of anything happening to drastically improve the atmosphere is pretty much nil.
I pointed out earlier in the thread, Barnsley managed to take well over 4000 fans to Wednesday, despite being bottom and play shite. They're supporters all stood and supported their team for the full game.
What did we manage for the same fixture? 1800, and instead of wanting to go to the game and be vociferous, all we had were people complaining about the ticket prices.
It's changing the mindset and mentality, if that can even be done.
We have another local derby in a couple of weeks against Barnsley, who will more than likely bring a simliar amount as Boro did, and I guess we will be having this discussion again.
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Very true I have seen 1000 of our fans at away games mocking 20000 home fans for their lack of noise. Forsome reason though our supporters are even reluctant to clap the team on at our home games .....I just don't get it ??
It's bonkers isn't it? IMO the move to the Keepmoat was badly handled by us fans, We were used to having relativity free movement at BV and we all knew where our loudest support was situated. Now we have sporadic pockets of singers dotted about the place and people are set in their ways / have season tickets.
Middlesbrough recently moved the entire away end from behind the goal to accommodate the Red Faction:
http://anthonyvickers.boroblogs.co.uk/2013/10/post-34.html
What a difference a year makes.
Not so long ago the Red Faction was an embattled group isolated in the South-east corner surrounded by hi-viz stewarding, often man-marked one-to-one with every out-break of celebration sparking an anxious ripple of fluorescent orange and yellow fidgeting.
They were on the naughty step, under surveillance and out in the cold.
They were at loggerheads with the club and watched closely by the police.
Every new flag was forensically tested for its terrorist potential.
Every game a tense Cold War stand-off.
It seemed at one point last season as though the authorities were preparing a purge.
Admittedly the wilder elements of the young group did themselves few favours when they were free of the confines of big ground CCTV security as they whipped out red flares at Burton and at North Riding Cup games.
And some of the provocative seventies retro-chanting at the bemused travelling fans across a very narrow sterile area and the self-styling as "ultras" - a word heavy with hostile intent, not least because of our events in Rome - had the police on edge.
But basically, far from being a proto-firm they were daft young lads who just wanted to make a racket and enjoy the game more intent on making banners than making trouble. They just wanted to be part of the action. They wanted to enjoy the match, not just what was happening on the pitch - which wasn't always that inspiring - but the whole experience.
They naively believed that pro-active supporting - chanting, singing, flags and banners - could add to the fun. And they were sneered at for it. As much by older, more cynical fans as the authorities. And they were estranged from the safety authorities who couldn't see the essence of their passionate support and instead saw a policing issue.
But now they are very much welcome. They are lauded by the club. They are part of the Boro family and seen as a vital ingredient in the match-day mix.
How did that happen then?
Over the past year there has been a marked thawing of attitude on both sides that has created the conditions for compromise and a new relationship. It is part of a wider move by the club to build bridges and listen to supporters, a detente that came from a series of meetings brokered by the Gazette on ticket prices, the configuration of the ground and ways to generate an atmosphere.
The summits ushered in a series of cut-price ticket offers - and a free pint - as an immediate attempt to boost crowds but the switch of the Red Faction to the South Stand and the creation of the Generation Red family zone were more concrete long term results.
The family zone has been a resounding success. With a season ticket a parent and two kids can go for a fraction under £20 which is ridiculously good value. It is cheaper than the pictures and a far more effective brainwashing technique.
But it could be the relocation Red Faction which proves to be the engine of a new atmosphere.
Chairman Steve Gibson laid it on the line: We love your passion but we can't afford to police you.
Drop the posturing and provocation and we'll move you to a prime site behind the goal; keep it up and you can come and tell me which player to sell.
Initially they were pencilled in to move slap bang behind the goal but safety chiefs were nervous about the possibility of pitch incursions and the newly conciliatory Red Faction offered to step up a tier to allay those fears and in return were given a lot of leeway. It has helped that there is now much more distance between them and the away fans. They are far more focussed on supporting their team now and less on goading the opposition. Although the odd bit of well timed and sharp barracking is still part of the repertoire. And very funny.
That stand is now a de facto safe standing experiment with the group regularly up for long spells going through a routine. And overt EIOing. And now with rarely a single hi-vis incursion to be seen. Although the police box is immediately behind them to keep an arms length vigil.
Now both sides have grown into the relationship and have regular productive meetings to discuss the practicalities whenever the fans suggest a banner or other display. There is an understanding there now, a trust. The instinct of the club is to say 'yes' to a proposal and then work out the practicalities rather than to say now and ignore any backlash. And the instinct of the Red Faction in return is to only propose stunts that are workable.
Earlier this season when the teams came out they were greeted by a storm of Argentina 78 style ripped paper copy... but only after they had agreed before hand and offered to stay behind to sweep up. And they were central to the chanting for Gary Parkinson.
The arrangement is working well where it matters - on matchdays.
That's a great initiative and is exactly what the Rovers need to emulate.
If we can accommodate and encourage lads to support the team in this way and create the atmosphere the stadium needs, the club will benefit because I believe right now the lack of an atmosphere detracts from the spectacle and keeps potential new supporters away.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
The support this club gets is a joke up and down the country.
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Sad Rovers
What I like best about the Boro red faction thing, is it compliments exactly the VSCs approach to football supporters.
They trust their youthful supporters and help them, in return they get improved behaviour and the atmosphere they want, which is an asset to the club.
It's about treating these football supporters like proper customers too and not just a problem to be dealt with.
It makes a lot of sense to me.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
Where did you get that from? They took 2,800.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
Where did you get that from? They took 2,800.
Wednesday supporters. They filled the top tier and had some of the bottom. Highlights show this as well.
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Safe standing is the way forward!! Get all the fans that want to stand and sing in a section that is purpose built for them. It'd be like being in the Pop again!!
COME ON YOU HOOOOOPS!!!! :scarf:
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Sad Rovers
What I like best about the Boro red faction thing, is it compliments exactly the VSCs approach to football supporters.
They trust their youthful supporters and help them, in return they get improved behaviour and the atmosphere they want, which is an asset to the club.
It's about treating these football supporters like proper customers too and not just a problem to be dealt with.
It makes a lot of sense to me.
I think that Safe Standing (something that the FSF have been working hard on) would make a big difference to us and bring back some "free movement" that we had at BV but we need to work with what we've got at the moment.
Tell yer mates, we're going west!
The West stand doesn't fit with the red faction approach. The idea behind that was to move the vocal fans from close proximity to the away supporters and encourage them to get behind the team rather than spend the match goading away supporters.
The South stand is the place for this.
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The boro red faction are to the right of the away fans,
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The boro red faction are to the right of the away fans,
It has helped that there is now much more distance between them and the away fans. They are far more focussed on supporting their team now and less on goading the opposition.
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Not really within goad-able distance though.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
No they didn't.
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If everybody cares to remember we created, through IRWT, an atmosphere group that would explore ideas to alter our current malaise. Unfortunately only one or two non-VSC board members turned up.
We're quite happy to have another go at it, but people need to stop moaning and do something, that's the only way things will change.
I could get the guy from Middlesborough to attend if necessary. Anthony works for the club and was instrumental in helping Red Faction achieve what they've done so far.
Anybody want to do that?
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If people say there isnt enough space in the West Stand B area. Is there no scope to extend so we get the NW corner and just shift the away fans further round? Or can this not be done?
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If everybody cares to remember we created, through IRWT, an atmosphere group that would explore ideas to alter our current malaise. Unfortunately only one or two non-VSC board members turned up.
We're quite happy to have another go at it, but people need to stop moaning and do something, that's the only way things will change.
I could get the guy from Middlesborough to attend if necessary. Anthony works for the club and was instrumental in helping Red Faction achieve what they've done so far.
Anybody want to do that?
Frosty, the floor's all yours.
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If everybody cares to remember we created, through IRWT, an atmosphere group that would explore ideas to alter our current malaise. Unfortunately only one or two non-VSC board members turned up.
We're quite happy to have another go at it, but people need to stop moaning and do something, that's the only way things will change.
I could get the guy from Middlesborough to attend if necessary. Anthony works for the club and was instrumental in helping Red Faction achieve what they've done so far.
Anybody want to do that?
Just do like we did with the family area, if the club build it, they will come.
Create the section, sell season tickets for that section unreserved, have pay on the gate for that section. Don't enforce the sit down rule in that section too vigorously. Do like Middlesborough and launch the new singing section with the offer a free pint with a ticket for that section.
I don't think we need an atmosphere group so much, more an atmosphere space. If we have that then an atmosphere group might develop more organically.
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Less talk more action in my eyes. Spread the word and why not try it in the West Stand for the Barnsley game? Get as many people as we can over there.
Would expect it to work perfectly against possibly our main local rivals??
If it doesnt work try it in the South Stand for the next home game?
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I don't think you can do it during the season to be honest. It'd have to be set up ready for the next season, because people have season tickets in certain areas of the ground already during the season so won't be able to take part even if they want to, I wouldn't have thought.
Then there's the people who won't want to move because they like sitting where they're sat now. Personally I hate being down the side of the pitch.
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I don't think you can do it during the season to be honest. It'd have to be set up ready for the next season, because people have season tickets in certain areas of the ground already during the season so won't be able to take part even if they want to, I wouldn't have thought.
Then there's the people who won't want to move because they like sitting where they're sat now. Personally I hate being down the side of the pitch.
It needs organising right now if we want it for next season.
Those who want to remain in their seat would have a problem, as their seat would no longer be reserved but I think it would be fair if the club offered them alternative seats elsewhere at the same price.
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I don't think you can do it during the season to be honest. It'd have to be set up ready for the next season, because people have season tickets in certain areas of the ground already during the season so won't be able to take part even if they want to, I wouldn't have thought.
Then there's the people who won't want to move because they like sitting where they're sat now. Personally I hate being down the side of the pitch.
It needs organising right now if we want it for next season.
Those who want to remain in their seat would have a problem, as their seat would no longer be reserved but I think it would be fair if the club offered them alternative seats elsewhere at the same price.
Yeah I know, what I'm saying is you can't really organise something like this for a match this season as people have already paid to be in a certain seat for the year.
As for my second point I meant more like a particular area of the ground than the specific seat. The people I sit with also aren't too keen on sitting along the side. Just personal preferences really.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
No they didn't.
Really? Looks like they did from the TV highlights, and 3 of my wednesday supporting mates have said the same.
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I don't think you can do it during the season to be honest. It'd have to be set up ready for the next season, because people have season tickets in certain areas of the ground already during the season so won't be able to take part even if they want to, I wouldn't have thought.
Then there's the people who won't want to move because they like sitting where they're sat now. Personally I hate being down the side of the pitch.
It needs organising right now if we want it for next season.
Those who want to remain in their seat would have a problem, as their seat would no longer be reserved but I think it would be fair if the club offered them alternative seats elsewhere at the same price.
Yeah I know, what I'm saying is you can't really organise something like this for a match this season as people have already paid to be in a certain seat for the year.
As for my second point I meant more like a particular area of the ground than the specific seat. The people I sit with also aren't too keen on sitting along the side. Just personal preferences really.
They wouldn't necessarily have to devote the entire south stand to the singing section it might just be the area directly behind the goal.
Unfortunately I can't see how creating an area like this won't cause some disappointment. It would have been better if these things had been considered when we moved into the new stadium.
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I've no intention of moving I like it where I am. I think the lack of drum has had a negative effect for sure. I also think those wanting to arrange this should be careful not to annoy others and to speak to the club so they're aware. There are things they don't want to and can't allow to happen.
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I've no intention of moving I like it where I am. I think the lack of drum has had a negative effect for sure. I also think those wanting to arrange this should be careful not to annoy others and to speak to the club so they're aware. There are things they don't want to and can't allow to happen.
I do believe it is going through the proper channels.. Gavin/Shaun etc.
Nothing wrong with creating an atmosphere. Its what gets people coming back.
Along with good results of course!
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Sad
You should let Gavin take a look at the complete article you posted about Boros Red Faction.
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The notion that the West Stand B section is just young kids is unfounded. Myself and about 30 others are former Popular Stand regulars; we regularly sign songs from the 90's & exchange banter between ourselves and the away fans. We haven't been asked to sit down for around 4 seasons now & that's contributed to the fact we have stayed.
I don't believe we need the drum, we didn't need it in the past, it wasn't at Blackpool; as long as people come with the frame of mind that they want to enjoy it & have a sing, we can create atmosphere.
Glad to see the fans are been proactive with this, hope it takes off. We might end up with a similar movement like the one at Lincoln City where fans have got together in a similar area of Sincil Bank, this has seen bigger gates & an excellent 'European style' atmosphere.
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The notion that the West Stand B section is just young kids is unfounded. Myself and about 30 others are former Popular Stand regulars; we regularly sign songs from the 90's & exchange banter between ourselves and the away fans. We haven't been asked to sit down for around 4 seasons now & that's contributed to the fact we have stayed.
I don't believe we need the drum, we didn't need it in the past, it wasn't at Blackpool; as long as people come with the frame of mind that they want to enjoy it & have a sing, we can create atmosphere.
Glad to see the fans are been proactive with this, hope it takes off. We might end up with a similar movement like the one at Lincoln City where fans have got together in a similar area of Sincil Bank, this has seen bigger gates & an excellent 'European style' atmosphere.
Bloody hell that's why people can't hear our fans! ;)
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Atmosphere was raised at my meeting today, and not being unfair but all the suggestions made on this thread and elsewhere have been raised with the club before. There are certain things that can be done and some that will take time to implement. I'll not labour on any points as it appears that you are making the right moves but no doubt you'll have to compromise on some requests.
I did suggest that the club contact Anthony at Middlesborough and see if their experience in dealing with Red Faction can help. Shaun knows Anthony very well and will make contact with him directly.
Some while ago the VSC made a financial contribution to the drum, so it would be helpful to quantify as to who is responsible for it and it's upkeep. If anybody can shed more light on that it would be appreciated.
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I wouldn't worry about the drum being allowed just yet. It's not the drum itself that is the issue but who has control and where it's sited. These are all solveable with the right approach and we did discuss that too.
Again, some of it is easy to do but various smaller problems need to be worked out.
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I won't be too happy if I can't keep my seat in the north end of the west stand. There's a fairly large chunk around us that's season tickets and some have been in the same seats for years. It's not just young lads either as most of us are mid/late forties. Unallocated seating won't be popular but if it's stick to your seat then go for it. The lads at the back are good entertainment.
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I won't be too happy if I can't keep my seat in the north end of the west stand. There's a fairly large chunk around us that's season tickets and some have been in the same seats for years. It's not just young lads either as most of us are mid/late forties. Unallocated seating won't be popular but if it's stick to your seat then go for it. The lads at the back are good entertainment.
There's a whole block of seats netted off for segregation. They never used to be, even against Leeds, Wednesday etc. Why not open that up again?
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I wouldn't worry about the drum being allowed just yet. It's not the drum itself that is the issue but who has control and where it's sited. These are all solveable with the right approach and we did discuss that too.
Again, some of it is easy to do but various smaller problems need to be worked out.
If the home fans aren't allowed a drum for whatever reason, there is no way the away fans should be allowed one!!!!! jeez who's damn stadium is it.
I was under the impression the lad that knocked 7 bales of poo out of it had gone to uni or something.
The only trouble with the drum is it needs a proper drummer to hit the ruddy thing
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I think it would help the atmosphere if the crowd joined in with the Wild Rover intro as the teams come out, a bit like Sheff utd do with the chip butty song
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I wouldn't worry about the drum being allowed just yet. It's not the drum itself that is the issue but who has control and where it's sited. These are all solveable with the right approach and we did discuss that too.
Again, some of it is easy to do but various smaller problems need to be worked out.
If the home fans aren't allowed a drum for whatever reason, there is no way the away fans should be allowed one!!!!! jeez who's damn stadium is it.
I was under the impression the lad that knocked 7 bales of poo out of it had gone to uni or something.
The only trouble with the drum is it needs a proper drummer to hit the ruddy thing
Daggers, don't misinterpret what I wrote. Its not the drum that's the problem but issues around the usage. When the young lad, (I forget his name unfortunately, was it Ryan?) went off to Uni the control over who, what and where became the problem. All solvable I'm sure. But it does depend on somebody taking responsible ownership, that and a couple of minor things should see things right.
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I wouldn't worry about the drum being allowed just yet. It's not the drum itself that is the issue but who has control and where it's sited. These are all solveable with the right approach and we did discuss that too.
Again, some of it is easy to do but various smaller problems need to be worked out.
If the home fans aren't allowed a drum for whatever reason, there is no way the away fans should be allowed one!!!!! jeez who's damn stadium is it.
I was under the impression the lad that knocked 7 bales of poo out of it had gone to uni or something.
The only trouble with the drum is it needs a proper drummer to hit the ruddy thing
Daggers, don't misinterpret what I wrote. Its not the drum that's the problem but issues around the usage. When the young lad, (I forget his name unfortunately, was it Ryan?) went off to Uni the control over who, what and where became the problem. All solvable I'm sure. But it does depend on somebody taking responsible ownership, that and a couple of minor things should see things right.
Fair do's just misread it a bit
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
No they didn't.
Really? Looks like they did from the TV highlights, and 3 of my wednesday supporting mates have said the same.
Makes the Boro' argument that they had the biggest away crowd of 4254 look daft then.
There were NOT nearly 5000 Dingles at Swillsborough Frosty OK.
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I won't be too happy if I can't keep my seat in the north end of the west stand. There's a fairly large chunk around us that's season tickets and some have been in the same seats for years. It's not just young lads either as most of us are mid/late forties. Unallocated seating won't be popular but if it's stick to your seat then go for it. The lads at the back are good entertainment.
Then with your intransigence it won't ever happen. You said you like to listen.......how about joining in all of you . That's what is wrong with our supporters ; generally older one's either want to listen and not contribute or think they are a damned nuisance and what the hell are they doing actually singing/chanting at a footy game.
I despair. !!
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Who said we don't join in. My point was about unallocated seating and enjoying where we sit.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
No they didn't.
Really? Looks like they did from the TV highlights, and 3 of my wednesday supporting mates have said the same.
Makes the Boro' argument that they had the biggest away crowd of 4254 look daft then.
There were NOT nearly 5000 Dingles at Swillsborough Frosty OK.
Home Attendance Stats Away Attendance: Championship 02/01/14 Middlesbrough at Doncaster: (4,254) Barnsley at Sheffield Wednesday: (2,800) Huddersfield at Leeds: (2,620) Derby at Birmingham: (2,517) Brighton at Watford: (1,998) Blackpool at Blackburn: (1,591) Burnley at QPR: (1,447) Leicester at Bournemouth: (1,435) Reading at Millwall: (1,236) Charlton at Wigan: (729) Bolton at Ipswich: (372) Yeovil at Nottingham Forest: (358)
http://lockerdome.com/fbl72/6170047307587393/6324613684676116
It's an estimate for Swillsborough because Sheffield Wednesday don't appear to issue official numbers for away fans.
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The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.
Good luck to the FB group though.
Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.
No they didn't.
Really? Looks like they did from the TV highlights, and 3 of my wednesday supporting mates have said the same.
Makes the Boro' argument that they had the biggest away crowd of 4254 look daft then.
There were NOT nearly 5000 Dingles at Swillsborough Frosty OK.
Home Attendance Stats Away Attendance: Championship 02/01/14 Middlesbrough at Doncaster: (4,254) Barnsley at Sheffield Wednesday: (2,800) Huddersfield at Leeds: (2,620) Derby at Birmingham: (2,517) Brighton at Watford: (1,998) Blackpool at Blackburn: (1,591) Burnley at QPR: (1,447) Leicester at Bournemouth: (1,435) Reading at Millwall: (1,236) Charlton at Wigan: (729) Bolton at Ipswich: (372) Yeovil at Nottingham Forest: (358)
http://lockerdome.com/fbl72/6170047307587393/6324613684676116
It's an estimate for Swillsborough because Sheffield Wednesday don't appear to issue official numbers for away fans.
Clearly more than 2800 if they filled the top tier and had fans in the lower tier.
A bit like when we took 5000 to Barnsley and they said it was 2000.
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Why does it matter so much? Deary me.
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Can I be the man they have in Europe that stands at the front of the stand with a megaphone. A hype man you may call him if you are down with the kids. I'd love it. "Oggy oggy oggy......".
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Don't really see the merits in arguing the toss over how many Barnsley took to Hillsborough, very little bearing on us.
For what it is worth I was in the East Stand on Saturday above the Boro fans and I couldn't hear the South Stand and I couldn't hear the West Stand either. Obviously the acoustics aren't that bad as if they were the South Stand wouldn't be able to hear the North Stand, which leads me to belive that there is a clear need for having the singers congregated rather than dotted around.
This subject has been done to death for several years now, and if I am honest, I can't see it changing anytime soon. Too many people who don't want to move or compromise. I wish the club would just make some kind of decision and if it goes down badly with some, tough shit. People need to man up and see the bigger picture. They are never going to please everyone but the minority will get over it (I hope).
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I won't be too happy if I can't keep my seat in the north end of the west stand. There's a fairly large chunk around us that's season tickets and some have been in the same seats for years. It's not just young lads either as most of us are mid/late forties. Unallocated seating won't be popular but if it's stick to your seat then go for it. The lads at the back are good entertainment.
Then with your intransigence it won't ever happen. You said you like to listen.......how about joining in all of you . That's what is wrong with our supporters ; generally older one's either want to listen and not contribute or think they are a damned nuisance and what the hell are they doing actually singing/chanting at a footy game.
I despair. !!
Don't generalise fella.
I'm a season ticket holder in the West Stand (sat not far from 'our choirists' next to the away fans), I'm 59 in March, have a tracheostomy & still I sing/chant/shout with the best of 'em even though the majority around me don't choose to (& their ages range from kids through to 20's, 30's 40's).
It's how I get rid of all the 'angst' that builds up through my week. It's therapeutic yes, but it's my way of being involved with the game without pulling the boots on!
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For what it is worth I was in the East Stand on Saturday above the Boro fans and I couldn't hear the South Stand and I couldn't hear the West Stand either. Obviously the acoustics aren't that bad as if they were the South Stand wouldn't be able to hear the North Stand, which leads me to belive that there is a clear need for having the singers congregated rather than dotted around.
This subject has been done to death for several years now, and if I am honest, I can't see it changing anytime soon. Too many people who don't want to move or compromise. I wish the club would just make some kind of decision and if it goes down badly with some, tough shit. People need to man up and see the bigger picture. They are never going to please everyone but the minority will get over it (I hope).
The club seem happy to allow those with Season Tickets for the other stands to exchange for a West Stand ticket, at least for the Barnsley trial. (We're pending confirmation on this on Wednesday)
What we do need is some older / wiser heads to join us for the Barnsley match, I don't want this to be dominated by teenagers as they have a habit of not knowing where to draw the line. Where have the 20/30 year old blokes gone from the Pop Stand?
They're now 30/40 year old blokes :)
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For what it is worth I was in the East Stand on Saturday above the Boro fans and I couldn't hear the South Stand and I couldn't hear the West Stand either. Obviously the acoustics aren't that bad as if they were the South Stand wouldn't be able to hear the North Stand, which leads me to belive that there is a clear need for having the singers congregated rather than dotted around.
This subject has been done to death for several years now, and if I am honest, I can't see it changing anytime soon. Too many people who don't want to move or compromise. I wish the club would just make some kind of decision and if it goes down badly with some, tough shit. People need to man up and see the bigger picture. They are never going to please everyone but the minority will get over it (I hope).
The club seem happy to allow those with Season Tickets for the other stands to exchange for a West Stand ticket, at least for the Barnsley trial. (We're pending confirmation on this on Wednesday)
What we do need is some older / wiser heads to join us for the Barnsley match, I don't want this to be dominated by teenagers as they have a habit of not knowing where to draw the line. Where have the 20/30 year old blokes gone from the Pop Stand?
I think your issue is the people already in the West Stand not those moving to it.
I have it on authority from someone on FB that my ST seat falls within the trial area for the Barnsley game, I rarely sit there as the people around me make my blood boil... if the whole area is typical of the people who sit directly around me I think it will mainly fall on its arse because they won't welcome rowdy people moving in and standing up!
On the subject, my gran attends the football, in said area, those seats were chosen as it means she can access her seat with relative ease given that she is disabled (straight up in the West Stand lift and a few steps to the seat). She can't really stand up at matches and she sits where she does as her eyesight isn't the greatest and it means she can see both goals clearly rather than sitting at one end and struggling to see another.
Here is one for you, is it fair to ask her to vacate her seat because if lots of people come and stand etc she won't be able to and won't see the match?
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To be honest I don't remember many "vocal" supporters attending DRFC games in all the years I have watched them ( 1960 to date ). Maybe the odd match at BV when "Big" teams visiting, but nothing over a sustained period.
"Archie" had a gang of maybe 100 "Vocalists" at BV, but that was all, hardly earth shattering noise, so, cant see that putting together 1 - 200 singers ( and that's what it would be ), will make much difference.
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I agree Sad,
At Belle Vue there was a recognised space for singers at the back on the halfway line of the pop stand. We don't yet have a recognised space in the Keepmoat.
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To be honest I don't remember many "vocal" supporters attending DRFC games in all the years I have watched them ( 1960 to date ). Maybe the odd match at BV when "Big" teams visiting, but nothing over a sustained period.
"Archie" had a gang of maybe 100 "Vocalists" at BV, but that was all, hardly earth shattering noise, so, cant see that putting together 1 - 200 singers ( and that's what it would be ), will make much difference.
Perhaps it's rose tinted glasses but I remember the atmosphere being far better in the Pop Side at BV during the early conference years than it's been in the South Stand at the 'moat since we moved.
100/200 dedicated singers in one section would make a massive difference, this is Motherwell, a team that is averaging crowds of 5200.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8iC1Yf6h84
Why aren't we matching that level of noise / singing? My best guess is the fragmented nature of our support and a ground that's half empty most games. Obviously we haven't managed the move from BV very well and this is the result. It CAN be fixed.
I believe it can be fixed, relocation won't solve the problem alone, in my opinion it needs dedication and persistence as well, it won't happen overnight, the hardcore singers need to keep it going for the full 90 minutes not sporadic 5 minutes here and there, if the 20 or 30 can keep it going then you'll probably find that 20or 30 will soon become 50 or 60, keep it up game after game and that 50 or 60 starts to become 100 to 150, and so on. Persistence is the key and not getting disheartened if it doesn't grow as quickly as you would like, people will eventually lose their inhibitions if the guy next to them starts making some noise
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Exactly right Filo! I've posted this on Facebook before but it deserves an outing here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ
When we went a goal down at Blackpool this season we re-started singing straight away, we CAN do it.
Interesting but we already have the lone nut and first followers at the KM, in both the South Stand and the West Stand.
What is very difficult is for others to get out of their seats and join 'the movement.'
Which is why I think it's so important for there to be a recognised singing area, so people who are that way inclined know where to go. And for that area to have unrestricted seating, so it is easy to join in 'the movement'
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We've moved ST holders in the east stand to accomodate away fans. Why is this any different?
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Interesting but we already have the lone nut and first followers at the KM, in both the South Stand and the West Stand.
Once we bring those two elements together we've instantly doubled our more vocal support. 100+ singers plus flags and drums for the Barnsley game should be a a very good start, I think that would be the critical mass for bringing more over from the South.
Yep, one recognised singers area.
The club can help by creating that space and then incentivising people to use it.
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Interesting but we already have the lone nut and first followers at the KM, in both the South Stand and the West Stand.
Once we bring those two elements together we've instantly doubled our more vocal support. 100+ singers plus flags and drums for the Barnsley game should be a a very good start, I think that would be the critical mass for bringing more over from the South.
I'm interested Sad, who exactly have you approached at the the club, what have you suggested and what was their response?
You seem to have hinted you have already suggested the west stand, despite concerns from people on here, including people who have season tickets in that area and the fact the singing section fell on its arse last time in the west stand?
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Interesting but we already have the lone nut and first followers at the KM, in both the South Stand and the West Stand.
Once we bring those two elements together we've instantly doubled our more vocal support. 100+ singers plus flags and drums for the Barnsley game should be a a very good start, I think that would be the critical mass for bringing more over from the South.
I'm interested Sad, who exactly have you approached at the the club, what have you suggested and what was their response?
You seem to have hinted you have already suggested the west stand, despite concerns from people on here, including people who have season tickets in that area and the fact the singing section fell on its arse last time in the west stand?
I didn't know there was a singing section tried in the West stand, I wonder how many knew about it and how long was it tried for?
I still think the idea is best suited to the South stand because the larger group of singers are already there behind the goal at the back.
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It was tried in that Notts County cup match, people stopped singing and sat down about 10 minutes in before we even started playing horrendously shite too before people try making out that was the reason. We got completely outsung by the County fans and it, as BJW says, died on its arse.
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It was tried in that Notts County cup match, people stopped singing and sat down about 10 minutes in before we even started playing horrendously shite too before people try making out that was the reason. We got completely outsung by the County fans and it, as BJW says, died on its arse.
So just one poorly attended cup game... I wonder how many people even knew about it?
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Agreed needs to be tried for several weeks if that fails then try in the south
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Doing it for one game is pointless. It's something that needs to grow and word needs to spread.
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It was tried in that Notts County cup match, people stopped singing and sat down about 10 minutes in before we even started playing horrendously shite too before people try making out that was the reason. We got completely outsung by the County fans and it, as BJW says, died on its arse.
So just one poorly attended cup game... I wonder how many people even knew about it?
You are doing that good a job at banging the drum for this RD, I nominate you as the NW corner drummer! I take it you will be relocating to the SS?!
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For what it is worth I was in the East Stand on Saturday above the Boro fans and I couldn't hear the South Stand and I couldn't hear the West Stand either. Obviously the acoustics aren't that bad as if they were the South Stand wouldn't be able to hear the North Stand, which leads me to belive that there is a clear need for having the singers congregated rather than dotted around.
This subject has been done to death for several years now, and if I am honest, I can't see it changing anytime soon. Too many people who don't want to move or compromise. I wish the club would just make some kind of decision and if it goes down badly with some, tough shit. People need to man up and see the bigger picture. They are never going to please everyone but the minority will get over it (I hope).
The club seem happy to allow those with Season Tickets for the other stands to exchange for a West Stand ticket, at least for the Barnsley trial. (We're pending confirmation on this on Wednesday)
What we do need is some older / wiser heads to join us for the Barnsley match, I don't want this to be dominated by teenagers as they have a habit of not knowing where to draw the line. Where have the 20/30 year old blokes gone from the Pop Stand?
I think your issue is the people already in the West Stand not those moving to it.
I have it on authority from someone on FB that my ST seat falls within the trial area for the Barnsley game, I rarely sit there as the people around me make my blood boil... if the whole area is typical of the people who sit directly around me I think it will mainly fall on its arse because they won't welcome rowdy people moving in and standing up!
On the subject, my gran attends the football, in said area, those seats were chosen as it means she can access her seat with relative ease given that she is disabled (straight up in the West Stand lift and a few steps to the seat). She can't really stand up at matches and she sits where she does as her eyesight isn't the greatest and it means she can see both goals clearly rather than sitting at one end and struggling to see another.
Here is one for you, is it fair to ask her to vacate her seat because if lots of people come and stand etc she won't be able to and won't see the match?
Fair? Possibly not.
For the greater good? Well we'll have to see.
As you said in your first post:
I wish the club would just make some kind of decision and if it goes down badly with some, tough shit.
Whatever we the fans or the club does will be unpopular with someone. I'm prepared to listen to constructive criticism and adjust / tweak where necessary but I think the vast majority of fans would support an improved atmosphere even if they don't agree with all aspects of the singing section and it's location. Compromise is key.
I'm with you in that if something is for the greater good it should be implemented but I believe there should be some sensitivity when it is done mid way through a season. People pick their seats for a reason and sometimes it isn't easy to just move to a spare seat somewhere else for whatever reason, and lets face it, they have paid for it why should they move?
It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I for one wouldn't be too fussed about being in the middle of a singing area, there are some matches when I just want to sit there, watch the game, and not be standing every couple of minutes and having a drum in my ear (normally when I am hungover!) but on the flip side there are occasions when I want to be in the thick of it and it would be nice to know that I have that choice.
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It was tried in that Notts County cup match, people stopped singing and sat down about 10 minutes in before we even started playing horrendously shite too before people try making out that was the reason. We got completely outsung by the County fans and it, as BJW says, died on its arse.
So just one poorly attended cup game... I wonder how many people even knew about it?
It was quite well pushed to be fair. The section was pretty full, from memory, so it was hardly as if nobody knew about it and didn't bother for that reason.
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Why not use the north (town) end for home fans who wish to sing, in unallocated seats?
The away fans could be moved to the east stand (north end).
This would create a better atmosphere, and give a massive home team advantage.
Penney did it in our run in to the title at Belle Vue.
This would be the most effective, yet the least disruptive route to take.
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Why not use the north (town) end for home fans who wish to sing, in unallocated seats?
The away fans could be moved to the east stand (north end).
This would create a better atmosphere, and give a massive home team advantage.
Penney did it in our run in to the title at Belle Vue.
This would be the most effective, yet the least disruptive route to take.
This would probably be the best compromise.
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It was tried in that Notts County cup match, people stopped singing and sat down about 10 minutes in before we even started playing horrendously shite too before people try making out that was the reason. We got completely outsung by the County fans and it, as BJW says, died on its arse.
So just one poorly attended cup game... I wonder how many people even knew about it?
You are doing that good a job at banging the drum for this RD, I nominate you as the NW corner drummer! I take it you will be relocating to the SS?!
Ah well Gaz, I'm afraid I fall outside your age demographic for this sort of nonsense, I'm happy enough in the East stand. Also I doubt you'd be able to keep up with my syncopation and funky breaks.
But I do think it's very important for the club to be pro-active in building a more vocal fan base because it enhances the match experience and I'm convinced we lose some support without it. For instance I remember reading a disparaging remark on the Polish Donny forum saying it wasn't worth going to the Rovers because it's not like normal football, it's so quiet.
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Whatever the decision the club makes needs to promoted correctly, otherwise it will just fall on its arse again. Maybe some leaflets could be distributed around the south stand to make sure all the current singers know.
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I found the link to the facebook group. You might want to suggest on there that people DON'T try and bring pyros to Barnsley match - unless they want your campaign to die a death before it's even begun...
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Notts County failed due to people getting tickets there intent on sitting down 3 rows from the back making everyone who wanted to stand and sing sit down. This ruined it.
Standing section it should be called
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I just hope no one is dislodged from their seat that they may have been in for the past 5 or 6 years for the sake of 100 or so people, unless they are given a better seat, for no extra cost, towards the half way line?
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If I recall the notts county game only had certain parts of the km open?
In truth the only way to get this off the ground would be in a part of the ground that would not affect anyone, so that's the nw corner or north end of the east stand.
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You're right Charles about losing supporters, it's the buzz that can be created at a football stadium that gets people to come back. I've taken my lad to watch The Rovers since he was 6 months old, he's been to hundreds of games, and when he was younger his attention and enjoyment was always linked to the atmosphere at the time. He's 10 now and understands the football side a lot more but he loves the away games when the fans are more vocal regardless of the football. Sitting in a morgue doesn't grip people does it.
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I just hope no one is dislodged from their seat that they may have been in for the past 5 or 6 years for the sake of 100 or so people, unless they are given a better seat, for no extra cost, towards the half way line?
Aside from there are no better seats towards the half way line because they are all taken by existing season ticket holders....
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Why not use the north (town) end for home fans who wish to sing, in unallocated seats?
The away fans could be moved to the east stand (north end).
This would create a better atmosphere, and give a massive home team advantage.
Penney did it in our run in to the title at Belle Vue.
This would be the most effective, yet the least disruptive route to take.
The perfect solution unless we're playing Owls, Dingles, Derby and Huddersfield. Most of the rest will fit in the East Stand. Anybody that fetches between 1000-2500 such as possibly Bolton, can have the East and split the North Stand. Ideal compromise.
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I've already said twice in this thread there is more than 1 block of seating in the West Stand section off for segregation. Simply open this up and let people go there. Then it will hassle no one. We never used to segregate this section, even against teams who filled the away end.
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The club don't have the final say in that though Mr Frost, the local SAG and the police will have their input.
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The club don't have the final say in that though Mr Frost, the local SAG and the police will have their input.
It never used to be a problem.
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It seems we are doing everything but the bleedin obvious. The natural place for a kop/singing section/standing section (when the legislation allows) cheap seats, unreserved seats, call it what you will, is the South Stand.
For me, there is much more to creating atmosphere than having a relatively small group of fans in close proximity to the away fans. That seems to be more about 'banter' or confrontation.
I had rather the club had adopted the Twenty's Plenty campaign, together Partnership with fans and Polypipe to attract folk to behind the goal.
Al that will happen now is the stadium will be split in to two groups leading to an an unco-ordinated shambles.
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Al that will happen now is the stadium will be split in to two groups leading to an an unco-ordinated shambles.
Like it is now, you mean?
I can never remember our most vocal support being in the Town End at Belle Vue, it was always in the Pop, towards the Rosso end.
It was a bit of a historic quirk that BV develoed the vocal section in the centre of the pop side, rather than behind the goal. It was because at one time that stand had a huge bar running down the back of it!
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The club don't have the final say in that though Mr Frost, the local SAG and the police will have their input.
Do we know when and why that block of seating was closed?
No I don't. And it may not prove to be a hindrance, the point I was making is that the club don't always have complete control on all of these issues. On this occasion they may, but I would almost guarantee if you're asking for segregation changes for the Barnsley game so that the club can accommodate the more vocal and possibly youthful section of the DRFC supporter base then the Police and/or safety officer will overrule them.
It's never as simple as some people seem to think, there's always compromise.
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The best time to try out the west stand singing section is when we are not expecting a huge away support. That way the segregation could be moved from the NW corner into the North stand allowing more room for unallocated seating in the NW.
It also allows the singers to organically build up a "wall of sound" without being overpowered by the away support and becoming disillusioned.
Another factor is that the West stand is I suspect the most populated and does often join in when the atmosphere peaks.
Little by little it will gain momentum.
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I'm 100% sure the North stand can be segregated (and on the concourse) it happened at least once in the early days and somebody somewhere has photos to prove it as they were put on here in a previous discussion about this
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I'm 100% sure the North stand can be segregated (and on the concourse) it happened at least once in the early days and somebody somewhere has photos to prove it as they were put on here in a previous discussion about this
It's happened plenty of times, the last time being last season against Notts County.
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problem near enough solved then, if we take safety officers and the police out of the equation :blink:
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And cost that's possibly a large part of the reason not to use the end of the nest stand up there.
I'm all for this though I'll not be moving I'm happy behind the goal thanks. Let's hope some get vocal and don't cause any bother in any way.
I'll continue my vocal side in the south stand though.
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The south stand is simply the wrong place for the singers, it's NOT A KOP. It's just too shallow and wide, there just aren't enough people, all the singers will just be spread along the back 2 rows.
The logical place is in the west stand near the away fans, an area where everyone can pack in close together and sing. with the added bonus of being able to hear tge away fans and vice a verca. hearing a loud away following always encourages tge gone support. The away fans can here you from there, and away fans will be going away thinking the donny fans really back their team. maybe just maybe the keepmoat can be thought of something other than a soulless bowl.
The south stand just doesn't work, it was pushed heavily to have the singing section here before the keepmoat opened. Most of the singers moved in there. There has been a few occasions where 'some atmosphere' has been created but NEVER a great one.
My point is, the south stand has been tried and it's now been proven not to work.
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Is the south stand any more shallow than the west stand? I thought they were all the same.
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I seem to remember the Pop stand being both shallow and wide (even more shallow towards the end).
It is good to see more people getting involved with the club and trying to take positive action. I thought the 'trial' at the Notts County game in the West Stand worked quite well until events on the pitch killed it.
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I'm 100% sure the North stand can be segregated (and on the concourse) it happened at least once in the early days and somebody somewhere has photos to prove it as they were put on here in a previous discussion about this
Yes, it's definitely segregated on the concourse too. There are internal lockable doors just like there are in the East Stand.
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I'm 100% sure the North stand can be segregated (and on the concourse) it happened at least once in the early days and somebody somewhere has photos to prove it as they were put on here in a previous discussion about this
It's happened plenty of times, the last time being last season against Notts County.
Now we're talking at cross purposes. I'm talking about the segregation netting in the north west corner. You and Daggers are talking about allocating some of the north stand to DRFC supporters and then using the concourse segregation as well. If that's what your thinking you won't get that for the Barnsley game at all. No chance. They'll give the whole of the North stand to Barnsley, i.e. The initial allocation of just over 3,000.
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I'm 100% sure the North stand can be segregated (and on the concourse) it happened at least once in the early days and somebody somewhere has photos to prove it as they were put on here in a previous discussion about this
It's happened plenty of times, the last time being last season against Notts County.
Now we're talking at cross purposes. I'm talking about the segregation netting in the north west corner. You and Daggers are talking about allocating some of the north stand to DRFC supporters and then using the concourse segregation as well. If that's what your thinking you won't get that for the Barnsley game at all. No chance. They'll give the whole of the North stand to Barnsley, i.e. The initial allocation of just over 3,000.
I realise that nothing like that would happen for Barnsley so how about the future look at allocating the north west side to home fans as unreserved the away could then have the north east side with the bigger followings going round the corner into the East stand.
Its all suggestions that could be looked at for the future
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Funny all this really! Years ago it was always an organic thing. I do feel that the guys in the West Stand take something away from the South Stand by dividing and separating and for what it's worth, from where I sit I can hear the South Stand quite clearly and the part of the East stand joins in when the tempo lifts. Looking across, the opposite part of the West Stand can be seen to be joining in. Therefore, potentially you have three sides that will join in. Sorry boys in the West Stand but it is vary rarely do I hear you at all and there does only ever appear to be a mini bus full of you. The Stand is not ideal as it is dissected heavily by a mid point walkway.
As for being beside the away fans. These days it's nicely called 'Banter'. Years ago you were the shit stirring fans and only goaded the opposing fans. Trust me, there has been many occasions when the last place you would want to be is beside a certain set of fans. Should the authorities give the West Stand idea the nod (doubtful) then the amount of stewarding required in that corner for certain games would go through the roof. I must admit the way you evacuated that area to save any trouble when the Millwall fans came charging over was very admirable.
As a boy are home/vocal end was the Rossington End that then evolved under the roof of the Pop side. For me it is and always will be the South Stand that should evolve with the chance of the atmosphere spilling round the corners and into the sides.
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Funny all this really! Years ago it was always an organic thing. I do feel that the guys in the West Stand take something away from the South Stand by dividing and separating and for what it's worth, from where I sit I can hear the South Stand quite clearly and the part of the East stand joins in when the tempo lifts. Looking across, the opposite part of the West Stand can be seen to be joining in. Therefore, potentially you have three sides that will join in. Sorry boys in the West Stand but it is vary rarely do I hear you at all and there does only ever appear to be a mini bus full of you. The Stand is not ideal as it is dissected heavily by a mid point walkway.
As for being beside the away fans. These days it's nicely called 'Banter'. Years ago you were the shit stirring fans and only goaded the opposing fans. Trust me, there has been many occasions when the last place you would want to be is beside a certain set of fans. Should the authorities give the West Stand idea the nod (doubtful) then the amount of stewarding required in that corner for certain games would go through the roof. I must admit the way you evacuated that area to save any trouble when the Millwall fans came charging over was very admirable.
As a boy are home/vocal end was the Rossington End that then evolved under the roof of the Pop side. For me it is and always will be the South Stand that should evolve with the chance of the atmosphere spilling round the corners and into the sides.
The only way to find out is to test it! There is no atmosophere in the south stand, so even if this 'minibus' full of the west stand were to join. Would it make much difference?? I dont think so.
Try something new in the NW corner and see how it goes!
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:lol: I want it in the south, no I want it in the west! Just let it grow naturally! Sing where you want.
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Well said, the south stand just doesn't work as has been proven. time to move to the west stand I think, and give that a try. the singers in the south stand ate just too spread out.
It will work slot better for everyone to be bunched together in the west.
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:lol: I want it in the south, no I want it in the west! Just let it grow naturally! Sing where you want.
That won't work these days, gone are the days of just the working class man attending games. When EVERYONE sang. these days the crowds are diluted by families, kids etc.
getting organised is the only way
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For me it is and always will be the South Stand that should evolve with the chance of the atmosphere spilling round the corners and into the sides.
And do you feel the South Stand, after assorted promotions and initiatives over seven years, is fulfilling that role now?
No I don't but I think it will work even less in the West Stand ( my opinion ). Sadly all seater stadium reduce the ability gather with your mates and raise the atmosphere in whichever area of the ground you sit. I sit a few seats away from a number of pals and can't really talk or shout to them. This in itself makes people slightly more reserved sitting amongst strangers. For my sake I don't care much and often sing and shout on my own. For me making the South Stand standing and getting a bunch of organised guys like the Red Faction together would be the answer. Long way off I know but small steps. In fact I would give up my seat and so would plenty of my mates to stand up in the south together. Unfortunately I wouldn't do that to move to the West Stand (just saying)
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For me it is and always will be the South Stand that should evolve with the chance of the atmosphere spilling round the corners and into the sides.
And do you feel the South Stand, after assorted promotions and initiatives over seven years, is fulfilling that role now?
No I don't but I think it will work even less in the West Stand ( my opinion ). Sadly all seater stadium reduce the ability gather with your mates and raise the atmosphere in whichever area of the ground you sit. I sit a few seats away from a number of pals and can't really talk or shout to them. This in itself makes people slightly more reserved sitting amongst strangers. For my sake I don't care much and often sing and shout on my own. For me making the South Stand standing and getting a bunch of organised guys like the Red Faction together would be the answer. Long way off I know but small steps. In fact I would give up my seat and so would plenty of my mates to stand up in the south together. Unfortunately I wouldn't do that to move to the West Stand (just saying)
So if it worked well in the NW corner you wouldnt move? But you would if it worked well in the South?
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People keep saying how good the atmosphere at bv was,I must be 1 of the few that never noticed
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For me it is and always will be the South Stand that should evolve with the chance of the atmosphere spilling round the corners and into the sides.
And do you feel the South Stand, after assorted promotions and initiatives over seven years, is fulfilling that role now?
No I don't but I think it will work even less in the West Stand ( my opinion ). Sadly all seater stadium reduce the ability gather with your mates and raise the atmosphere in whichever area of the ground you sit. I sit a few seats away from a number of pals and can't really talk or shout to them. This in itself makes people slightly more reserved sitting amongst strangers. For my sake I don't care much and often sing and shout on my own. For me making the South Stand standing and getting a bunch of organised guys like the Red Faction together would be the answer. Long way off I know but small steps. In fact I would give up my seat and so would plenty of my mates to stand up in the south together. Unfortunately I wouldn't do that to move to the West Stand (just saying)
So if it worked well in the NW corner you wouldnt move? But you would if it worked well in the South?
That's not what he said. In his opinion making the South Stand into a standing area would encourage him to go there and he wouldn't give up his seat to move to the seated west stand. And nor would I.
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Apologies! Misread!
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People keep saying how good the atmosphere at bv was,I must be 1 of the few that never noticed
Funny that because I never thought the atmosphere at Belle Vue was any good. It was better before they reduced the place and what was then the pop side ( can't ever remember it being called that prior to the bulldozer). Even in those days we used to sing and chant but people I knew that were in the main stand said they couldn't hear us. Same problem only 30/40 years later. More things change, the more they remain the same. :-)
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Bring Archie back!
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Get Duerden on!
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I think the thing about the atmosphere at BV was it seemed quite good if you were stood on the pop. In other sections of the ground the sound was just lost in the expanse of the huge Rovers pitch.
JMT
After this amount of time, I think we can see the atmosphere at the KM won't just grow naturally.
But if they can create a space for singers, which doesn't restrict people moving around in it and incentivise people to use that area for that purpose, then I think there is a chance that something might grow organically.
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There has been little concerted effort to promote the South Stand as the club has stunted any initiative and growth with it's pricing policy. Remember when South was recatogorised to A and £28 a ticket? Its been like banging heads eversince for common sense to prevail. Just when we believe we've negotiated the right conditions to foster growth in the South the club throw in a curveball. The introduction of Cat C in West with no consultation is that curveball.
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Who said we don't join in. My point was about unallocated seating and enjoying where we sit.
Saying ' the lads at the back are good entertainment' almost implies that you don' t take part yourself.
My apologies if you are part of this group and sing your heart out as do the older lads with you.
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Sw corner anyone? That way you influence both the south and west stand?
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Sorry if this has already been mentioned earlier on in the thread, I can't be arsed to read all 7 pages, but, if a 'singing section' came to light and by the sounds of it - it would be in the North West corner. Obviously this means the majority of people who want to be involved would have to move from the likes of the South Stand etc, etc.
What happens if this safe standing also comes to light? (see SilentMajority's recent thread) Surely the safe standing section would be in the South stand? This meaning either: Choose to stand in safe standing with probably minimal atmosphere, or stand in the North West section and create an atmosphere - this meaning rules will be broken in the North West!
So, basically the 'singing section' would have to be in the South Stand if 'safe standing' occured and people who have re-located to the North West from the South would have to re-locate from the North West to the South ..............!
Or am I just confusing things!?
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Atmosphere is not just about a singing section. It's about engagement of all fans with the event.
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SoundbiteBarmyArmy,
I couldn't possibly imagine a 'safe standing' section being erected in the N West corner alongside the away fans, common sense tells you that it would be in the South stand. The Police, who would undoubtedly have a say, and the local SAG who would enforce this, have always maintained that standing leads to outbreaks of violence ( I know, it's a crazy assumption) and therefore the request would have to be met by allowing the two sets of fans who wish to stand to be at opposite ends of the ground.
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Safe standing is years away, and I'm sceptical it will ever happen. So this shouldn't distract the campaign to get a designated singing section near the north west corner.
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Surely the best place would be an area no fans are in? I.E the NW corner in the away end. Then shifting the away fans towards the East Stand a block or two?
This therefore doesnt chuck people our there season tickets seats
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Safe standing is years away, and I'm sceptical it will ever happen. So this shouldn't distract the campaign to get a designated singing section near the north west corner.
Obviously it's not a subject that you understand a whole lot. Being a member of the campaign I can tell you it's a lot closer than you imagine. It might take a few years for everybody to adopt it but several clubs already have planning applications submitted which include rail seating, and one club is having some fitted in an existing stadium this week.
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Surely the best place would be an area no fans are in? I.E the NW corner in the away end. Then shifting the away fans towards the East Stand a block or two?
This therefore doesnt chuck people our there season tickets seats
Yes but that doesn't allow for the complications I've highlighted. Plus by giving the northern end of the east stand to the away fans permanently leaves the regular east stand home fans having to suffer a reduced catering service which is currently very poor.
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Surely the best place would be an area no fans are in? I.E the NW corner in the away end. Then shifting the away fans towards the East Stand a block or two?
This therefore doesnt chuck people our there season tickets seats
Yes but that doesn't allow for the complications I've highlighted. Plus by giving the northern end of the east stand to the away fans permanently leaves the regular east stand home fans having to suffer a reduced catering service which is currently very poor.
Fair point. I think wherever it ends up. It will annoy some people wont it! Cant please everyone unfortunately.
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No you can't. But there will be time to plan this.
Our suggestion has always been to have small areas converted to test the application and acceptance. I would suggest the south west or south east corner to start with.
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If it can't be done in the north west corner, then I think centre few blocks of the south stand would be best
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If it can't be done in the north west corner, then I think centre few blocks of the south stand would be best
Unfortunately it can't be that simple. The standing area would have to be restricted to the rows furthest back in the stand so that the view for those seated in the sections to each side of the standing support isn't obstructed. The standing block would have to be like an inverted pyramid probably not extending any further than half way down the stand.
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I assume the Safe Standing zone would have to be in an area where it didn't cause restricted views to the seated spectators nearby - so that'd mean it'd have to be slap bang in the middle of the ends wouldn't it?
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Spot on AL. The corners would cause least disruption to adjacent seated views.