Atmosphere again

[MrFrost]

Another issue is our support isn't passionate enough. Boro had 4200 there yesterday, every one of them stood for the full game and sang. Try standing at one of our away games, unless you're on the back couple of rows and people will moan at you at best or at worst threaten you.

Then there's the issue that none of our fans will compromise and move from the west to the south or vice versa.
For me, unless there is some kind of massive shift in the way people think, nothing will ever change.

[River Don]

It isn't fair comparing our home support with the away support. Away supporters are always more vocal. That said I suspect the atmosphere our home crowd generates doesn't compare too well with the Boro home support.

[silent majority]

This subject is one that's raised at every football club up and down the country, we're no different.

[River Don]

This subject is one that's raised at every football club up and down the country, we're no different.

It's because they've designed atmosphere out of the new stadia.

I listened to Sir Norman Foster explaining his vision of the new Wembley, how it was all about space and openness and great sight lines, big seats with excessive large amounts of legroom so you don't need to get up and letting in the light, etc, etc.

Yes, I thought but a football stadium needs to be steep and claustrophobic and dark under a low roof and close up hard to the pitch to generate a good atmosphere.

[GazLaz]

This subject is one that's raised at every football club up and down the country, we're no different.

It's because they've designed atmosphere out of the new stadia.

I've been in the KM when it's been a good atmosphere. Can't blame the stadium design fully.

[graingrover]

from Barnsley forum....

SWFC Fans



How bad was the atmosphere

 23k of them and they hardly created a noise
 Barnsley fans were fantastic from start to finish ( apart from smashing the seats at full time)

 Just reminded once again how thank full I am to not have to sit in that shit hole week in week out

[River Don]

This subject is one that's raised at every football club up and down the country, we're no different.

It's because they've designed atmosphere out of the new stadia.

I've been in the KM when it's been a good atmosphere. Can't blame the stadium design fully.

Not fully but it doesn't help. Actually the KM can generate a decent atmos when it's fuller. Part of the problem is, it's often half empty.

[coventryrover]

Got to agree with others.

North Stand for away fans.

East Stand for those prawn sarny fans, families and those who just want to go sit and get engrossed in the football.

South and West unreserved.  Yes, have season tickets for those stands but not reserved seating.  Pay on the day for the south stand.

If the singers are organised enough they'd get there early, congregate and plan the afternoons singing.

For me no one wants to get to the seats early so the atmosphere doesnt get a chance to build up.  People get to the seats last minutes after beers have been drunk or they rock up to the kms just in time.

[RedJ]

That's a pretty good point. On away days the singers are usually in at least half an hour before kick off and all congregate in one area and everyone who wants to be a part of it goes and stands over near them, and more often than not there'll be a few songs before the game even kicks off.

[Padge_DRFC]

How far is safe standing from happening?

Main problem with ss too many people want to sit down and be in an atmosphere but just sit down and make no noise and contribute.

[Malc Morling]

At 61yrs old i go to watch football not to sing . i also sit in the north east stand and have been known to join in with the 15 or so kids as stated. i for one think if u want the banter this is the section for u singers.Close to the away fans to answer chants back. Also i find it heard to ear  what the south stand are singing from my seat may b this is because of my age (selective Dea :rtid:fness)

[RedJ]

At 61yrs old i go to watch football not to sing . i also sit in the north east stand and have been known to join in with the 15 or so kids as stated. i for one think if u want the banter this is the section for u singers.Close to the away fans to answer chants back. Also i find it heard to ear  what the south stand are singing from my seat may b this is because of my age (selective Dea :rtid:fness)

Yeah it completely failed last time it was tried.

[Padge_DRFC]

I sit behind the goal and I really think it's time to move and make it a standing section towards the away end. Where everybody stands. Not just the back 2 rows. Nearly every ground has a large standing section. In some cases 35000 stand at Old Trafford behind both goals. City next to the away fans Manchester and Hull and so on so on.

Season tickets are £299 there as well.

[silent majority]

The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.

Good luck to the FB group though.

[Boomstick]

The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.

Good luck to the FB group though.

Numbers don't equal atmosphere. 500 fans can easily make more noise than 4000. It just depends on the willingness of the fans to sing.
We took 3000 fans to Newcastle, and didnt sing all game, in fact several Newcastle fans proclaimed we were the quietest fans ever to visit st James park!
Contrast this to 300 accrington Stanley fans, who also out sang us at the keepmoat. it's not just about numbers

[hoolahoop]

The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.

Good luck to the FB group though.

Numbers don't equal atmosphere. 500 fans can easily make more noise than 4000. It just depends on the willingness of the fans to sing.
We took 3000 fans to Newcastle, and didnt sing all game, in fact several Newcastle fans proclaimed we were the quietest fans ever to visit st James park!
Contrast this to 300 accrington Stanley fans, who also out sang us at the keepmoat. it's not just about numbers

Very true I have seen 1000 of our fans at away games mocking 20000 home fans for their lack of noise. Forsome reason though our supporters are even reluctant to clap the team on at our home games .....I just don't get it ??

[bobjimwilly]

Got to agree with others.

North Stand for away fans.

East Stand for those prawn sarny fans, families and those who just want to go sit and get engrossed in the football.

South and West unreserved.  Yes, have season tickets for those stands but not reserved seating.  Pay on the day for the south stand.

If the singers are organised enough they'd get there early, congregate and plan the afternoons singing.

For me no one wants to get to the seats early so the atmosphere doesnt get a chance to build up.  People get to the seats last minutes after beers have been drunk or they rock up to the kms just in time.

Totally unrealistic and unfair to have the whole south and west unreserved. Middle of the west stand = best views in the ground - there would be no end of problems at each game if that were to be made unreserved, and so will never happen.

Btw most of the west stand don't stand and sing all game either, it's not just the east stand. Trying to make the South stand more of a cop is the best idea. When the south stand is in full voice it can be heard from north stand, it's just it doesn't happen too much. Not enough room on north west to house everyone who likes to stand and sing in south stand currently.

[MrFrost]

The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.

Good luck to the FB group though.

Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.

[BrightonEye]

Ah yes, Boro fans. I was up at the Riverside for our game there in December, and it was like a graveyard.

And yet… Donny fans contributed to one of the greatest ever atmospheres at the Amex in 2011, for our opening match. Of course it was a special occasion, with a really exciting ending. But although everyone was sitting down, the sense of occasion just blew everyone away. Stadium acoustics were excellent, and of course that helped.

But the experience proved that modern grounds are not somehow all automatically soulless bowls. And that the atmosphere really does come from the crowd, and from the extent to which they are fired up. You can do all of that even while sitting down.

Seems to me that the real issue is that too many British people feel uncomfortable about shouting and singing loudly in public. But, if an occasion is exciting enough to sweep away that self-consciousness, then football fans anywhere can create a fantastic atmosphere - regardless of the actual surroundings.

Perhaps we can all prove that next Saturday!

[MrFrost]

Not enough room on north west to house everyone who likes to stand and sing in south stand currently.

I'm fairly sure there is room for an extra 50 people from the South stand in the North West. 

There's loads of room. In fact there's a whole block of seats that are netted off. Open them up.

Like i've pointed out, the mentality of the majority of our supporters means the chances of anything happening to drastically improve the atmosphere is pretty much nil.

I pointed out earlier in the thread, Barnsley managed to take well over 4000 fans to Wednesday, despite being bottom and play shite. They're supporters all stood and supported their team for the full game.

What did we manage for the same fixture? 1800, and instead of wanting to go to the game and be vociferous, all we had were people complaining about the ticket prices.

It's changing the mindset and mentality, if that can even be done.

We have another local derby in a couple of weeks against Barnsley, who will more than likely bring a simliar amount as Boro did, and I guess we will be having this discussion again.

[River Don]

Very true I have seen 1000 of our fans at away games mocking 20000 home fans for their lack of noise. Forsome reason though our supporters are even reluctant to clap the team on at our home games .....I just don't get it ??

It's bonkers isn't it? IMO the move to the Keepmoat was badly handled by us fans, We were used to having relativity free movement at BV and we all knew where our loudest support was situated. Now we have sporadic pockets of singers dotted about the place and people are set in their ways / have season tickets.

Middlesbrough recently moved the entire away end from behind the goal to accommodate the Red Faction:

http://anthonyvickers.boroblogs.co.uk/2013/10/post-34.html

What a difference a year makes.

Not so long ago the Red Faction was an embattled group isolated in the South-east corner surrounded by hi-viz stewarding, often man-marked one-to-one with every out-break of celebration sparking an anxious ripple of fluorescent orange and yellow fidgeting.

They were on the naughty step, under surveillance and out in the cold.

They were at loggerheads with the club and watched closely by the police.

Every new flag was forensically tested for its terrorist potential.

Every game a tense Cold War stand-off.

It seemed at one point last season as though the authorities were preparing a purge.

Admittedly the wilder elements of the young group did themselves few favours when they were free of the confines of big ground CCTV security as they whipped out red flares at Burton and at North Riding Cup games.

And some of the provocative seventies retro-chanting at the bemused travelling fans across a very narrow sterile area and the self-styling as "ultras" - a word heavy with hostile intent, not least because of our events in Rome - had the police on edge.

But basically, far from being a proto-firm they were daft young lads who just wanted to make a racket and enjoy the game more intent on making banners than making trouble. They just wanted to be part of the action. They wanted to enjoy the match, not just what was happening on the pitch - which wasn't always that inspiring - but the whole experience.

They naively believed that pro-active supporting - chanting, singing, flags and banners - could add to the fun. And they were sneered at for it. As much by older, more cynical fans as the authorities. And they were estranged from the safety authorities who couldn't see the essence of their passionate support and instead saw a policing issue.

But now they are very much welcome. They are lauded by the club. They are part of the Boro family and seen as a vital ingredient in the match-day mix.

How did that happen then?

Over the past year there has been a marked thawing of attitude on both sides that has created the conditions for compromise and a new relationship. It is part of a wider move by the club to build bridges and listen to supporters, a detente that came from a series of meetings brokered by the Gazette on ticket prices, the configuration of the ground and ways to generate an atmosphere.

The summits ushered in a series of cut-price ticket offers - and a free pint - as an immediate attempt to boost crowds but the switch of the Red Faction to the South Stand and the creation of the Generation Red family zone were more concrete long term results.

The family zone has been a resounding success. With a season ticket a parent and two kids can go for a fraction under £20 which is ridiculously good value. It is cheaper than the pictures and a far more effective brainwashing technique.

But it could be the relocation Red Faction which proves to be the engine of a new atmosphere.

Chairman Steve Gibson laid it on the line: We love your passion but we can't afford to police you.

Drop the posturing and provocation and we'll move you to a prime site behind the goal; keep it up and you can come and tell me which player to sell.

Initially they were pencilled in to move slap bang behind the goal but safety chiefs were nervous about the possibility of pitch incursions and the newly conciliatory Red Faction offered to step up a tier to allay those fears and in return were given a lot of leeway. It has helped that there is now much more distance between them and the away fans. They are far more focussed on supporting their team now and less on goading the opposition. Although the odd bit of well timed and sharp barracking is still part of the repertoire. And very funny.

That stand is now a de facto safe standing experiment with the group regularly up for long spells going through a routine. And overt EIOing. And now with rarely a single hi-vis incursion to be seen. Although the police box is immediately behind them to keep an arms length vigil.

Now both sides have grown into the relationship and have regular productive meetings to discuss the practicalities whenever the fans suggest a banner or other display. There is an understanding there now, a trust. The instinct of the club is to say 'yes' to a proposal and then work out the practicalities rather than to say now and ignore any backlash. And the instinct of the Red Faction in return is to only propose stunts that are workable.

Earlier this season when the teams came out they were greeted by a storm of Argentina 78 style ripped paper copy... but only after they had agreed before hand and offered to stay behind to sweep up. And they were central to the chanting for Gary Parkinson.

The arrangement is working well where it matters - on matchdays.

That's a great initiative and is exactly what the Rovers need to emulate.

If we can accommodate and encourage lads to support the team in this way and create the atmosphere the stadium needs, the club will benefit because I believe right now the lack of an atmosphere detracts from the spectacle and keeps potential new supporters away.

[Boomstick]

The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.

Good luck to the FB group though.

Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.

The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.

Good luck to the FB group though.

Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.

The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.

Good luck to the FB group though.

Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.

The support this club gets is a joke up and down the country.

[River Don]

Sad Rovers

What I like best about the Boro red faction thing, is it compliments exactly the VSCs approach to football supporters.

They trust their youthful supporters and help them, in return they get improved behaviour and the atmosphere they want, which is an asset to the club.

It's about treating these football supporters like proper customers too and not just a problem to be dealt with.

It makes a lot of sense to me.

[pib]

The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.

Good luck to the FB group though.

Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.

Where did you get that from? They took 2,800.

[MrFrost]

The Middlesborough away support was the largest by any team throughout English Football on Saturday. It's hard to compete with that.

Good luck to the FB group though.

Barnsley took getting on for 5000 to Hilsborough.
Makes our 1800 look a shambles. The £30 ticket prices didn't seem to put them off.

Where did you get that from? They took 2,800.

Wednesday supporters. They filled the top tier and had some of the bottom. Highlights show this as well.

[paddy hoops]

Safe standing is the way forward!! Get all the fans that want to stand and sing in a section that is purpose built for them. It'd be like being in the Pop again!!

COME ON YOU HOOOOOPS!!!!

[River Don]

Sad Rovers

What I like best about the Boro red faction thing, is it compliments exactly the VSCs approach to football supporters.

They trust their youthful supporters and help them, in return they get improved behaviour and the atmosphere they want, which is an asset to the club.

It's about treating these football supporters like proper customers too and not just a problem to be dealt with.

It makes a lot of sense to me.

I think that Safe Standing (something that the FSF have been working hard on) would make a big difference to us and bring back some "free movement" that we had at BV but we need to work with what we've got at the moment.

Tell yer mates, we're going west!

The West stand doesn't fit with the red faction approach. The idea behind that was to move the vocal fans from close proximity to the away supporters and encourage them to get behind the team rather than spend the match goading away supporters.

The South stand is the place for this.

[Boomstick]

The boro red faction are to the right of the away fans, 

[River Don]

The boro red faction are to the right of the away fans, 

It has helped that there is now much more distance between them and the away fans. They are far more focussed on supporting their team now and less on goading the opposition.

[Jenny]

Not really within goad-able distance though.