Adam Henshall Hero or villain?

[Fred Potter]

It appears Adam has identified players with good individual skills but with no backbone or fight when it is needed. His lack of all round judgement of a player seems to have contributed to the recent demise.

[silent majority]

It appears Adam has identified players with good individual skills but with no backbone or fight when it is needed. His lack of all round judgement of a player seems to have contributed to the recent demise.

I'm sure you're right, maybe that's why Aston Villa thought he would be a great addition to their set up! 

[eastender]

 

It appears Adam has identified players with good individual skills but with no backbone or fight when it is needed. His lack of all round judgement of a player seems to have contributed to the recent demise.

I'm sure you're right, maybe that's why Aston Villa thought he would be a great addition to their set up! 

May be they're having second thought's . 

[Glyn_Wigley]

It appears Adam has identified players with good individual skills but with no backbone or fight when it is needed. His lack of all round judgement of a player seems to have contributed to the recent demise.

Hello Mr Gibson

[normal rules]

This is way way off the mark IMO. If you are going to point fingers at anyone regarding acquisition of players look no further than their agents. They are the ones that “sell” them.
SM himself has commented on how much of a pain they can be , and have been for DRFC.
It niggles me that Moore has the same agent as some of our more recent acquisitions.

[EasyforDennis]

He is neither Hero or villain. He is a young bloke with a family who has been given an opportunity to improve his and  his families life considerably. Wouldn't we all do the same?
 

[anton123]

Is it gonna be the tea lady’s fault next ?
The buck stops with the manager for me and it looks like he as got TIL end of the season to show he can turn it around if not he as to go

[GazLaz]

We don’t know which players he played a part in wan which ones he didn’t.

The clue may be in the fact that the Christians and lads with the same agent as DM were probably his men!

[SoundbiteBarmyArmy]

Don't get the big thing over people like this in football!

We've won more without him than with him.

Give me the job for half his wage and I'll find you some League One talent. Can't believe it took someone to see that Sims, Richards, Bostock, etc. are good enough for League One and Doncaster Rovers.

[RoversAlias]

Don't get the big thing over people like this in football!

We've won more without him than with him.

Give me the job for half his wage and I'll find you some League One talent. Can't believe it took someone to see that Sims, Richards, Bostock, etc. are good enough for League One and Doncaster Rovers.

Had anybody heard of Taylor Richards before he rocked up here?

Bostock also was nothing to do with Henshall. He is a friend of Darren Moore's and they both are part of a Christian foundation, so I'm sure Moore had him in mind/spoke to him when he foresaw Whiteman leaving in January.

[normal rules]

Talent identification officer person spec:
Must be good at analysing data and have ability to spot a good footballer.

Reality: keeps his football agent contact book up to date and happy to take calls from those wanting to get their clients into paid employment .

I mean, how does a 27 yr old become a talent spotter? I’ve watched enough football to be able to spot talent. As have most us us that are the wrong side of 50.
This is about corporate contacts and who knows who. I’d love to see the “data analysis” for the acquisitions that Adam played a part in. And I mean him no disrespect but What happened to just having scouts? What happened to managers talking to each other.
Just like football agents, it’s all about money. And it’s rotting football to the core.

I can’t see talent spotters going to a random game these days thinking let’s go and see what we see. It will be based around a phone call from an agent saying, we’ve got this young lad, blah blah blah. The rest we know of course.

[GazLaz]

Talent identification officer person spec:
Must be good at analysing data and have ability to spot a good footballer.

Reality: keeps his football agent contact book up to date and happy to take calls from those wanting to get their clients into paid employment .

I mean, how does a 27 yr old become a talent spotter? I’ve watched enough football to be able to spot talent. As have most us us that are the wrong side of 50.
This is about corporate contacts and who knows who. I’d love to see the “data analysis” for the acquisitions that Adam played a part in. And I mean him no disrespect but What happened to just having scouts? What happened to managers talking to each other.
Just like football agents, it’s all about money. And it’s rotting football to the core.

I can’t see talent spotters going to a random game these days thinking let’s go and see what we see. It will be based around a phone call from an agent saying, we’ve got this young lad, blah blah blah. The rest we know of course.

Think your completely wrong there. I’m not sure we use our talent ID/ recruitment set up optimally but surely it’s a case of identifying the positions you need to fill, recognising what kind of player you need in that position then using data and analytics to narrow down the potential recruits. Once a short list has been created you can filter out players that are potentially available, watch them at close hand, do your due diligence and take things from there.

There are that many players that you can’t watch them all. The days of just having a scout going out there to watch players is gone.

[RoversAlias]

I would highly recommend Michael Calvin's book "The Nowhere Men" for an insight into how scouting has changed drastically as the game evolves in the modern day. And actually, I think it was written a few years ago so it is more likely to have modernised even further since then.

There's a big section on Mark Warburton and the Brentford model which was in its infancy at the time of the book, and has paid immense dividends for them in the time since.

Gaz is right, the scope of football clubs identifying and studying players is far beyond just sending a few blokes to watch games every week to write notes on a certain players nowadays.

[GazLaz]

Barnsley are a great example of a club doing things right recruitment wise.

[DMnumber4]

I would highly recommend Michael Calvin's book "The Nowhere Men" for an insight into how scouting has changed drastically as the game evolves in the modern day. And actually, I think it was written a few years ago so it is more likely to have modernised even further since then.

There's a big section on Mark Warburton and the Brentford model which was in its infancy at the time of the book, and has paid immense dividends for them in the time since.

Gaz is right, the scope of football clubs identifying and studying players is far beyond just sending a few blokes to watch games every week to write notes on a certain players nowadays.

Spot on, RA. I wouldn't bother commenting unless you've read that book.

[GazLaz]

I don’t really know how the recruitment department works here. I’m pretty sure there’s not masses of joined up thinking though. Is there a framework that the squad is assembled to? Are we modelling the data to highlight potential targets that fit into this frame work? Do we have an analytics department (not only useful for recruitment!)?

Until we have this side of the club in order we are only treading water. If anyone from the club wants to get in touch I can put them in touch with a company that can provide them with all they will need.

[Jonathan]

Neither hero nor villain. He wasn’t here long enough and there are no results that we can point to in terms of leaving us with players that we’ll be able to make money on (or that have necessarily delivered success). Presumably those things would become clear in the longer term and / or with a different overarching transfer and contracts strategy. What we can say is that he was highly thought of by the club and he’s moved on to bigger and better things, so he’s clearly doing something right.

[turnbull for england]

Fred Potter . Wum or Mr Gibson ?

[DonnyOsmond]

I don’t really know how the recruitment department works here. I’m pretty sure there’s not masses of joined up thinking though. Is there a framework that the squad is assembled to? Are we modelling the data to highlight potential targets that fit into this frame work? Do we have an analytics department (not only useful for recruitment!)?

Until we have this side of the club in order we are only treading water. If anyone from the club wants to get in touch I can put them in touch with a company that can provide them with all they will need.

We have Alex Bailey who's the First Team Performance Analyst but I think that's it.

[DonnyOsmond]

Talent identification officer person spec:
Must be good at analysing data and have ability to spot a good footballer.

Reality: keeps his football agent contact book up to date and happy to take calls from those wanting to get their clients into paid employment .

I mean, how does a 27 yr old become a talent spotter? I’ve watched enough football to be able to spot talent. As have most us us that are the wrong side of 50.
This is about corporate contacts and who knows who. I’d love to see the “data analysis” for the acquisitions that Adam played a part in. And I mean him no disrespect but What happened to just having scouts? What happened to managers talking to each other.
Just like football agents, it’s all about money. And it’s rotting football to the core.

I can’t see talent spotters going to a random game these days thinking let’s go and see what we see. It will be based around a phone call from an agent saying, we’ve got this young lad, blah blah blah. The rest we know of course.

Think your completely wrong there. I’m not sure we use our talent ID/ recruitment set up optimally but surely it’s a case of identifying the positions you need to fill, recognising what kind of player you need in that position then using data and analytics to narrow down the potential recruits. Once a short list has been created you can filter out players that are potentially available, watch them at close hand, do your due diligence and take things from there.

There are that many players that you can’t watch them all. The days of just having a scout going out there to watch players is gone.

Yeah, it's a lot easier to use data to say I need a fullback who fits certain metrics such as he wins the majority of his challenges, he is a pretty efficient crosser of the ball, etc, fitting that in the top leagues you're looking at the likes of Luke Shaw. Then in League One you're looking at someone like Josh Emmanuel at Hull (different side to Shaw but the point stands). Then if you're looking for a creative player to play in your 3 behind the striker, in the Premier League you've obviously got the likes of Grealish and De Bruyne, then in the Championship theres Buendia and Elliott then the further down the leagues you'll have less knowledge without the data there and a club like ours isn't going to be able to afford a dozen scouts to watch players like Graham at Gillingham, Charlie Kirk at Crewe, Joe Ward at Peterborough, even though we probably couldn't afford them. The likes of Nicky Cadden, Dylan Bahamboula and Randell Williams maybe aren't out the realms of possibility though. Some may perform well due to the style of play of the team they're currently in too, Graham for example may be suited to Gillingham's style and not ours, on the other hand he may do even better with us due to seeing a lot more of the ball.

It's also a lot more sensible to look through a massive database then to ask the limited knowledge of scouts, managers, agents, etc.

[GazLaz]

Finding players with certain qualities that may suit your team but are playing in teams that don’t really suit them is key I think. Scott Robinson was a potential example there (although he’s not really been able to show what he can do). Not suited to Gills style at all and will end up being a decent player in a team that takes care of the ball.

[normal rules]

How on earth did football teams manage in the sixties and seventies........
Or the eighties and nineties for that matter........


Oh hang on, they did.
Someone will no doubt call this progress.

[RoversAlias]

How on earth did football teams manage in the sixties and seventies........
Or the eighties and nineties for that matter........


Oh hang on, they did.
Someone will no doubt call this progress.

You have to move with the times. If one or a few clubs find a new method of success and it works, others need to follow to compete or come up with another new way. Analytics is the way forward and scrutinising everything to get those marginal gains is a big part of all top level sports now.

Football is a different game to when they used to kick leather balls around on muddy fields at the top level in the 60s. And that's not to denigrate that era or those players. It is just a fact. You have to change to keep pace or you lag far behind.

[Michael Gibson]

Definitely not me gents, the players he brought in are good on paper, just won’t play for butler or there agent as other agendas

[normal rules]

Stats don’t measure attitude, or willingness to play for others.
Stats don’t determine if a player wants to wear a given club colour or perform for a certain manager.
There are just some elements of our national game that cannot be captured and therefore assessed as statistics.
Manchester United have suffered some pretty big failures since Alex Ferguson ended his managerial career and you can’t tell me they did not have a monumental “statistical “ approach to team management and performance.
I accept it’s a part of the modern game.
I’m just think there is a lot more to building a team and maintaining teamwork than stats.

[GazLaz]

Stats don’t measure attitude, or willingness to play for others.
Stats don’t determine if a player wants to wear a given club colour or perform for a certain manager.
There are just some elements of our national game that cannot be captured and therefore assessed as statistics.
Manchester United have suffered some pretty big failures since Alex Ferguson ended his managerial career and you can’t tell me they did not have a monumental “statistical “ approach to team management and performance.
I accept it’s a part of the modern game.
I’m just think there is a lot more to building a team and maintaining teamwork than stats.

That’s been Man United issue. They are a million miles behind other teams in that department. Liverpool invest most in that department, it’s not hurt them, they have signed quality and not only that, they know which ones of their own players to get rid of.

[normal rules]

And if the models being utilised by clubs like Brentford and Liverpool are so successful, why aren’t rovers using them?  Why do we not have a team of data analysers using Data analytics. Brentford use data and algorithms from Smartodds which is based on the concept of expected goals.
I’m not saying I subscribe to these models, but if they are that effective, why isn’t every club using them?

[normal rules]

Stats don’t measure attitude, or willingness to play for others.
Stats don’t determine if a player wants to wear a given club colour or perform for a certain manager.
There are just some elements of our national game that cannot be captured and therefore assessed as statistics.
Manchester United have suffered some pretty big failures since Alex Ferguson ended his managerial career and you can’t tell me they did not have a monumental “statistical “ approach to team management and performance.
I accept it’s a part of the modern game.
I’m just think there is a lot more to building a team and maintaining teamwork than stats.

That’s been Man United issue. They are a million miles behind other teams in that department. Liverpool invest most in that department, it’s not hurt them, they have signed quality and not only that, they know which ones of their own players to get rid of.

And yet the 10 game form table has Liverpool currently 12th and  Man U 3rd. I wonder what their data analysts make of that. Perhaps it’s just a blip.

[DonnyOsmond]

And if the models being utilised by clubs like Brentford and Liverpool are so successful, why aren’t rovers using them?  Why do we not have a team of data analysers using Data analytics. Brentford use data and algorithms from Smartodds which is based on the concept of expected goals.
I’m not saying I subscribe to these models, but if they are that effective, why isn’t every club using them?

Because like yourself a lot of people and clubs are still sceptical. The more it's successful with clubs like Brentford, Liverpool, Man City, Barnsley, etc the more clubs will take that approach and if a club doesn't then they'll be left behind.

[DonnyOsmond]

Stats don’t measure attitude, or willingness to play for others.
Stats don’t determine if a player wants to wear a given club colour or perform for a certain manager.
There are just some elements of our national game that cannot be captured and therefore assessed as statistics.
Manchester United have suffered some pretty big failures since Alex Ferguson ended his managerial career and you can’t tell me they did not have a monumental “statistical “ approach to team management and performance.
I accept it’s a part of the modern game.
I’m just think there is a lot more to building a team and maintaining teamwork than stats.

That’s been Man United issue. They are a million miles behind other teams in that department. Liverpool invest most in that department, it’s not hurt them, they have signed quality and not only that, they know which ones of their own players to get rid of.

And yet the 10 game form table has Liverpool currently 12th and  Man U 3rd. I wonder what their data analysts make of that. Perhaps it’s just a blip.

Injuries to key players?