Great news from the SPL, safe standing trials OK!

[silent majority]

This has been coming for a while, but now officially allowed after a recent SPL meeting. The thin end of the wedge!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16248937.stm

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/celtic/289114-safe-standing-plan-approved-by-spl/

[glosterred]

I for one hope it doesn't catch on

[silent majority]

I for one hope it doesn't catch on

Why?

[bobjimwilly]

Great news!

[glosterred]

I for one hope it doesn't catch on

Why?

I believe it to be a retrograde step

[Chris Black come back]

This is fantastic news. I suspect though there are far too many vested interests in the FA / PL nexus and tabloid hysteria which wil torpedo this south of the border, but we can live in hope!

[silent majority]

This is fantastic news. I suspect though there are far too many vested interests in the FA / PL nexus and tabloid hysteria which wil torpedo this south of the border, but we can live in hope!

Well, I can't say too much Chris but we have 2 PL clubs willing to come out and support this too.

[SkellowRover]

Fantastic news

[silent majority]

I for one hope it doesn't catch on

Why?

I believe it to be a retrograde step

Two points then Gloster.

1) We shouldn't let people have the choice?

and

2) We shouldn't  let people carry on doing what they are doing at every game?

I suppose I should just ask why it would be a retrograde step?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

One stand with standing in does nobody any harm.  Add in for clubs like us it's a good way of improving crowds.  Cheaper tickets in a standing area (say the South stand), a larger capacity probably up to about 5k which would improve crowds and definitely improve atmosphere.  I'm all for it, if it was to come in down here Rovers should be charging up the list to get the South stand into a safe standing area, innovative and a good chance of improving crowds.

[benaldo]

I reckon most people now don't want to stand for 2 hours to watch the footy. I would imagine that a 1,000 \"Safe standing\" area at the KM wouldn't be full.

[glosterred]

I for one hope it doesn't catch on

Why?

I believe it to be a retrograde step

Two points then Gloster.

1) We shouldn't let people have the choice?

and

2) We shouldn't  let people carry on doing what they are doing at every game?

I suppose I should just ask why it would be a retrograde step?

Doesn't really matter as the SFA are not bound by the Turner report and therefore it will not be happening in Enlgand anytime soon.

I am all for people to have their choice - but for me it is a step backwards to the days of Belle Vue, I actually like the KMS for being all seater, I would not want to go back to those days.

As for making people sit - we should be and not just the Rovers all all seater stadiums should be doing the same, clubs have been warned in the past for their fans standing, it is time that firm action was taken to stamp it out.

[silent majority]

I for one hope it doesn't catch on

Why?

I believe it to be a retrograde step

Two points then Gloster.

1) We shouldn't let people have the choice?

and

2) We shouldn't  let people carry on doing what they are doing at every game?

I suppose I should just ask why it would be a retrograde step?

Doesn't really matter as the SFA are not bound by the Turner report and therefore it will not be happening in Enlgand anytime soon.

I am all for people to have their choice - but for me it is a step backwards to the days of Belle Vue, I actually like the KMS for being all seater, I would not want to go back to those days.

As for making people sit - we should be and not just the Rovers all all seater stadiums should be doing the same, clubs have been warned in the past for their fans standing, it is time that firm action was taken to stamp it out.

Well, firstly it's the Taylor report, not Turner.

And what firm action are you recommending?

But you still haven't explained why its a retrograde step, all you've done is expand on your opinion. Which is fine by the way, I'm quite happy to give you the choice to sit if you wish, however we should have the choice.

[glosterred]

I for one hope it doesn't catch on

Why?

I believe it to be a retrograde step

Two points then Gloster.

1) We shouldn't let people have the choice?

and

2) We shouldn't  let people carry on doing what they are doing at every game?

I suppose I should just ask why it would be a retrograde step?

Doesn't really matter as the SFA are not bound by the Turner report and therefore it will not be happening in Enlgand anytime soon.

I am all for people to have their choice - but for me it is a step backwards to the days of Belle Vue, I actually like the KMS for being all seater, I would not want to go back to those days.

As for making people sit - we should be and not just the Rovers all all seater stadiums should be doing the same, clubs have been warned in the past for their fans standing, it is time that firm action was taken to stamp it out.

Well, firstly it's the Taylor report, not Turner.

And what firm action are you recommending?

But you still haven't explained why its a retrograde step, all you've done is expand on your opinion. Which is fine by the way, I'm quite happy to give you the choice to sit if you wish, however we should have the choice.

The firm action is to ban fans, close away ends if it is the away fans standing or ban that club from having tickets fro away games. Also if it is the home fans, close the ground and play games behind closed doors - firm I think you will agree, and that goes for the Rovers as well as any team

It would be a retrograde step because we have moved on from standing stadiums, it was an advance for the fans to be treated to better facilities of having seats to sit on in all the ground not just part of the ground. To go back to standing stadiums or parts would in my opinion be a retrograde step.

[Chris Black come back]

I reckon most people now don't want to stand for 2 hours to watch the footy. I would imagine that a 1,000 \"Safe standing\" area at the KM wouldn't be full.

It will be when the price is noticeably cheaper than seats: if you went to Peterborough away then you have your answer.

[bobjimwilly]

So what you're saying glosterred is fans should be made to sit, even if they want to stand? Why? Because you want to sit?

The whole idea of safe standing areas is people would have the choice. If anything, this would lead to less arguments between fellow supporters less tedious work for stewards having to tell fans to sit down.

[silent majority]

I for one hope it doesn't catch on

Why?

I believe it to be a retrograde step

Two points then Gloster.

1) We shouldn't let people have the choice?

and

2) We shouldn't  let people carry on doing what they are doing at every game?

I suppose I should just ask why it would be a retrograde step?

Doesn't really matter as the SFA are not bound by the Turner report and therefore it will not be happening in Enlgand anytime soon.

I am all for people to have their choice - but for me it is a step backwards to the days of Belle Vue, I actually like the KMS for being all seater, I would not want to go back to those days.

As for making people sit - we should be and not just the Rovers all all seater stadiums should be doing the same, clubs have been warned in the past for their fans standing, it is time that firm action was taken to stamp it out.

Well, firstly it's the Taylor report, not Turner.

And what firm action are you recommending?

But you still haven't explained why its a retrograde step, all you've done is expand on your opinion. Which is fine by the way, I'm quite happy to give you the choice to sit if you wish, however we should have the choice.

The firm action is to ban fans, close away ends if it is the away fans standing or ban that club from having tickets fro away games. Also if it is the home fans, close the ground and play games behind closed doors - firm I think you will agree, and that goes for the Rovers as well as any team

It would be a retrograde step because we have moved on from standing stadiums, it was an advance for the fans to be treated to better facilities of having seats to sit on in all the ground not just part of the ground. To go back to standing stadiums or parts would in my opinion be a retrograde step.

A great plan to kill off football altogether there Gloster. Draconian or what! I think you would be sat in an empty stadium! Is that just because you want to sit, because you are still not being clear about why?

As for better facilities, yes they are better and so they should be. The lack of investment in football grounds was the main cause of the Hillsboro and Bradford disasters. Football clubs should hang there heads in shame. But if you think all seater stadiums are the only answer then you're wrong. The cost of football and the sterile atmospheres are killing this game faster than ever. The average age of a PL season ticket holder is 43. Where are the next generation of football supporters coming from? But I'm sure you're not interested in that are you?, they would be all banned under your strict regime.

[Al Riggall]

Good work Martin, another big step towards getting a better atmosphere in stadiums.

Have Rovers ever gave their opinion on what they would do if it were approved in England?

[benaldo]

I thought the Hillsborough disaster was found to have been a mismanaged police force allowing too many people to stand in an area, not to do with the stadium? I mean, if an area is fenced in and has a maximum capacity of 1000, then if you let 1000 people in it there won't be any problems surely?!

Personally I don't mind if there is a standing area for people who want to do so, but I would be amazed if a section of terrace which once catered for say 1500 seats is allowed to cater safely for more standing. And if you think the clubs are going to cut the price of tickets for these things I would suggest you think again. Seating is safer, more comfortable, and mine even has a little padding. I don't begrudge anyone wanting to stand but the rules are clear are they not - no standing or thou shall be ejected? Enforce them properly I say. I would also argue that perhaps incidents like that woman being punched in the face (allegedly) on Saturday would possibly not have happened if the people concerned were sitting down and did not feel free to move about the terrace at will.

Plus, how long before some tool jumps off something and hurts themselves?

[silent majority]

Good work Martin, another big step towards getting a better atmosphere in stadiums.

Have Rovers ever gave their opinion on what they would do if it were approved in England?

Hi Al,

We're all grinning from ear to ear at the moment as it does add more weight to the momentum that the SS campaign has been gathering all year. We were expecting it though because our Safe Standing roadshow has spent some time in Scotland and was exceptionally well received by certain clubs. Furthermore there was a big incident of fan expulsion at Aberdeen because of standing in recent weeks which just added more impetus.

To get back to your question though. We haven't actually discussed this in detail although standing will be part of an initiative that we hope to have running early in the New Year. Well, what I mean is it will hopefully be up for discussion. I'm sure JR is an advocate of standing, after all he did quite a lot of it at Belle Vue!!

Contrary to popular belief there is already a lot of 'official' standing areas in PL and Championship grounds. Its all done by consensus of course and means the Safety Officer has to agree to ignore the ground regulations for certain areas.

[silent majority]

I thought the Hillsborough disaster was found to have been a mismanaged police force allowing too many people to stand in an area, not to do with the stadium? I mean, if an area is fenced in and has a maximum capacity of 1000, then if you let 1000 people in it there won't be any problems surely?!

Personally I don't mind if there is a standing area for people who want to do so, but I would be amazed if a section of terrace which once catered for say 1500 seats is allowed to cater safely for more standing. And if you think the clubs are going to cut the price of tickets for these things I would suggest you think again. Seating is safer, more comfortable, and mine even has a little padding. I don't begrudge anyone wanting to stand but the rules are clear are they not - no standing or thou shall be ejected? Enforce them properly I say. I would also argue that perhaps incidents like that woman being punched in the face (allegedly) on Saturday would possibly not have happened if the people concerned were sitting down and did not feel free to move about the terrace at will.

Plus, how long before some tool jumps off something and hurts themselves?

The Taylor reports, of which there were 2, concerning the Hillsboro disaster came to the conclusion that there were 3 factors that were the root cause. The first was that Hillsboro did not have a valid safety certificate, it failed its previous inspection but SWFC carried on regardless, and the FA were culpable too when awarding the semi final to them when reports of overcrowding and injures had occurred at that ground on previous occasions.

The second cause was the lack of stewards. On that fateful day they were non-existent and fans made their own way into the 'pens' which were overcrowded. Signage didn't help either, so nobody knew alternative pens were available, but stewards, if they had been there, should and would have helped.

The 3rd and overriding cause was poor policing. Ignoring all the evidence that was staring them in the face that day the Police failed to react, opened gates which should have remained closed, failed to delay the kick-off and essentially lost all control of the situation.


As I've stated on this, and many other forums, standing works very effectively all around the world. In Germany the seating/standing ratio is 1.6. Therefore you can safely stand 1,600 supporters in an area designed for 1,000 seats. So..

Benny, were do you get the information from that seating is safer? As for comfort that's just a personal preference isn't it? What's comfortable to one doesn't make it universal. By the way its not against the rules to stand, its a ground regulation that allows you to stand at moments of high excitement. And you can stand when the ball isn't in play as well. And it may be cheaper, but that isn't our concern at the moment. LJT suggested a price of £6 for a seat, allowing for inflation that would now be about £12 or £13. Seems the supporter always suffers eh!

[wilts rover]

Interesting listening to the interview with Neil Doncaster, chief exec (or summat) of the SPL as to why they have done this and why now. Nothing to do with what fans want - it is the decline in attendences (and subsequent decline in gate receipts). So rather than look at the overall picture of why this is - they are trying a 'gimmick' to get fans back. REDUCE THE TICKET PRICES YOU MUPPETT. Would you rather pay £15 to sit down - or £25 to stand up?

There is no economic reason why a seat at a football match should be cheaper than a standing place, the only reason they are is that clubs can get away with it. In fact you can get a seat at a Serie A game in Italy, cheaper than you can stand at some Conference games!

Again using the example of Italy, there is no reason why the atmosphere should be any better in a standing section than in seats, I think in Spain and South America most of, if not all, their grounds are all seater - with infinitely better atmospheres' (and some dire matches) than we have.

But I am all for choice and hope this works. Congrats to the FSF & look forward to seeing the option of standing at the Keepmoat someday (tho I wont be using it!).

[RedJ]

Good work Martin, another big step towards getting a better atmosphere in stadiums.

Have Rovers ever gave their opinion on what they would do if it were approved in England?

Hi Al,

We're all grinning from ear to ear at the moment as it does add more weight to the momentum that the SS campaign has been gathering all year. We were expecting it though because our Safe Standing roadshow has spent some time in Scotland and was exceptionally well received by certain clubs. Furthermore there was a big incident of fan expulsion at Aberdeen because of standing in recent weeks which just added more impetus.

To get back to your question though. We haven't actually discussed this in detail although standing will be part of an initiative that we hope to have running early in the New Year. Well, what I mean is it will hopefully be up for discussion. I'm sure JR is an advocate of standing, after all he did quite a lot of it at Belle Vue!!

Contrary to popular belief there is already a lot of 'official' standing areas in PL and Championship grounds. Its all done by consensus of course and means the Safety Officer has to agree to ignore the ground regulations for certain areas.

when he joined us for the Palace match, he motioned upwards to us, obviously to get us stood up, so I'd agree he's an advocate

[Pintolager]

I really do hope that safe standing is allowed in this country. I will always say that Taylor's final report into the Hillsborough disaster was a knee jerk reaction to those fateful events. As stated, football grounds did need to be updated and made safer, but to make grounds all-seater was wrong imo - we should have learnt from the Germans, French and other countries in implementing new ideas years ago. If fans want to stand then all should be done to make this happen. I hope consultation between all parties continues and pressure is put on the Government to make changes.

If people want to sit, then fine, we are all different, but don't preach to everybody else on what they should do.

[ditch_drfc]

I thought the Hillsborough disaster was found to have been a mismanaged police force allowing too many people to stand in an area, not to do with the stadium? I mean, if an area is fenced in and has a maximum capacity of 1000, then if you let 1000 people in it there won't be any problems surely?!

Personally I don't mind if there is a standing area for people who want to do so, but I would be amazed if a section of terrace which once catered for say 1500 seats is allowed to cater safely for more standing. And if you think the clubs are going to cut the price of tickets for these things I would suggest you think again. Seating is safer, more comfortable, and mine even has a little padding. I don't begrudge anyone wanting to stand but the rules are clear are they not - no standing or thou shall be ejected? Enforce them properly I say. I would also argue that perhaps incidents like that woman being punched in the face (allegedly) on Saturday would possibly not have happened if the people concerned were sitting down and did not feel free to move about the terrace at will.

Plus, how long before some tool jumps off something and hurts themselves?

Either you're trying to get a reaction (again), or you really are the world's biggest idiot.

Anyone who stands up at a football match should be ejected? Get down off you padded-seat high horse.

Thing is Benaldo, we all know your views about safe standing. They're well documented. A bit like your joke about Steve Brooker that you like to tell in every thread. So why not clean this thread up for those who are interested about this.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

1000s stand up at Premiership games every week. We see away fans standing up at the Keepmoat on many occasions and there are very few, if any, incidents caused as a result of standing.

As said earlier any standing areas will be there to provide a choice, so no one needs to worry that we're going back to antiquated stadiums that are not fit for purpose. There is no doubt for some, standing provides an opportunity to enjoy the experience more.

I'm sure there are many concerts where folk like to stand and jig around a bit and no one questions whether this is a safe practice. Football should be no different and should cater for those who want to get in to it, rock and roll with the excitement and sing their hearts out. No one has to suffer should this be brought in as long as all parties co-operate to implement it sensibly.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This has been coming for a while, but now officially allowed after a recent SPL meeting. The thin end of the wedge!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16248937.stm

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/celtic/289114-safe-standing-plan-approved-by-spl/

Congratulations SM. I've been the arch-sceptic on this, and I'll still be astonished if the Govt don't find a way to veto it, but the very, very best of luck.

[hoolahoop]

Well done SM, I'm all for a safe CHOICE unlike some of the 'knee jerkers' on here.

[RedJ]

This has been coming for a while, but now officially allowed after a recent SPL meeting. The thin end of the wedge!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16248937.stm

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/celtic/289114-safe-standing-plan-approved-by-spl/

Congratulations SM. I've been the arch-sceptic on this, and I'll still be astonished if the Govt don't find a way to veto it, but the very, very best of luck.

Yeah, Dave's got an excellent record with those

[benaldo]

I thought the Hillsborough disaster was found to have been a mismanaged police force allowing too many people to stand in an area, not to do with the stadium? I mean, if an area is fenced in and has a maximum capacity of 1000, then if you let 1000 people in it there won't be any problems surely?!

Personally I don't mind if there is a standing area for people who want to do so, but I would be amazed if a section of terrace which once catered for say 1500 seats is allowed to cater safely for more standing. And if you think the clubs are going to cut the price of tickets for these things I would suggest you think again. Seating is safer, more comfortable, and mine even has a little padding. I don't begrudge anyone wanting to stand but the rules are clear are they not - no standing or thou shall be ejected? Enforce them properly I say. I would also argue that perhaps incidents like that woman being punched in the face (allegedly) on Saturday would possibly not have happened if the people concerned were sitting down and did not feel free to move about the terrace at will.

Plus, how long before some tool jumps off something and hurts themselves?

Either you're trying to get a reaction (again), or you really are the world's biggest idiot.

Anyone who stands up at a football match should be ejected? Get down off you padded-seat high horse.

Thing is Benaldo, we all know your views about safe standing. They're well documented. A bit like your joke about Steve Brooker that you like to tell in every thread. So why not clean this thread up for those who are interested about this.

Silly me, I forgot this forum was only for fans who are still mourning SOds passing, want to sing and stand up at every opportunity, and agree with the death penalty for people who think Sam Hird isn't the worlds greatest footballer.....

What was that about listening to other peoples views, that the mods posted a week or so ago???