Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: selby on March 09, 2024, 11:51:50 am
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
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Keep pulling on the brandy until the memory of the cricket fades
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Keep pulling on the brandy until the memory of the cricket fades
If you can only post an insult, don’t post at all!
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priceless sproty
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Generally London public transport is cheaper and more convenient than the rest of the country, generally if you're going for a night out in London, your likely to be on the tube.
I think it's just the cost of going out, the cost of buying meals and drinks is so high. Probably higher than most places in the UK And people generally are under pressure, particularly young people in London who have to find fortunes just to pay the rent.
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
Not sure where you’ve got your info from Selby, but as a long time resident of our fair capital I can assure you that public transport down here is light years ahead of the rest of the country. It’s fairly cheap, very convenient and pretty safe.
As River Don points out, a night out down here (in the centre of London anyway) isn’t cheap at all. £7 a pint isn’t unusual. Young ‘uns these days simply can’t afford it very often. Saying that, you’ll struggle to find an empty boozer in the west end on an evening.
About it not being an English city anymore, what makes you say that?
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
Not sure where you’ve got your info from Selby, but as a long time resident of our fair capital I can assure you that public transport down here is light years ahead of the rest of the country. It’s fairly cheap, very convenient and pretty safe.
As River Don points out, a night out down here (in the centre of London anyway) isn’t cheap at all. £7 a pint isn’t unusual. Young ‘uns these days simply can’t afford it very often. Saying that, you’ll struggle to find an empty boozer in the west end on an evening.
About it not being an English city anymore, what makes you say that?
Ignorance.
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Stereotyping
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Regarding it not being safe you might want to
Listen to the report that was on 5 Live the other week on Croydon.
They’re really turning it round with community work so much so that there has been zero knife crime in two years and this was the knife crime capital of Britain a few years ago.
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Apparently 1,100 clubs and bars have closed in London over the last 3 years. That tells its own story. Pubs and clubs might well still be full, there are just far fewer of them. The centre, Soho and south bank are probably all still doing well, with the tourist trade as much as anything.
When I was still living in Shepherds Bush I can think of 4 pubs in that area that closed. That was a while back now, but let's face it pubs have steadily been closing everywhere for quite a long period now.
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Apparently 1,100 clubs and bars have closed in London over the last 3 years. That tells its own story. Pubs and clubs might well still be full, there are just far fewer of them. The centre, Soho and south bank are probably all still doing well, with the tourist trade as much as anything.
When I was still living in Shepherds Bush I can think of 4 pubs in that area that closed. That was a while back now, but let's face it pubs have steadily been closing everywhere for quite a long period now.
Pubs have been shutting down all over the country, not just London.
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Apparently 1,100 clubs and bars have closed in London over the last 3 years. That tells its own story. Pubs and clubs might well still be full, there are just far fewer of them. The centre, Soho and south bank are probably all still doing well, with the tourist trade as much as anything.
When I was still living in Shepherds Bush I can think of 4 pubs in that area that closed. That was a while back now, but let's face it pubs have steadily been closing everywhere for quite a long period now.
Pubs have been shutting down all over the country, not just London.
To be clear Glyn, when I put pubs have been closing everywhere, I did mean everywhere in the country not just bloody London.
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
London not an English city anymore? What does he mean...
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
London not an English city anymore? What does he mean...
It's quite obvious, and you know exactly what he means
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
London not an English city anymore? What does he mean...
It's quite obvious, and you know exactly what he means
If you're going to be racist, at least have the strength of character to come out and embrace it explicitly.
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
London not an English city anymore? What does he mean...
It's quite obvious, and you know exactly what he means
I know that racists say London, with a population 46% non-white background, isn't 'British'. Are you saying that Selby is a racist?
And that non-white people, even if they were born in England and had maybe 2-3 generations of family who have lived here, can't be English?
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Apparently 1,100 clubs and bars have closed in London over the last 3 years. That tells its own story. Pubs and clubs might well still be full, there are just far fewer of them. The centre, Soho and south bank are probably all still doing well, with the tourist trade as much as anything.
When I was still living in Shepherds Bush I can think of 4 pubs in that area that closed. That was a while back now, but let's face it pubs have steadily been closing everywhere for quite a long period now.
Were QPR your second team, RD, when you were living in Shepherds Bush?
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I am not a racist Wilts, its the modern way of closing realists down.
It's Billy's go to get out and others. They prefer to sleep walk and shout.
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When people begin a sentence with,
"I'm not racist..."
it's so predictable.
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I'm not racist...but London is no longer an English city.
I'm not racist but I just like saying things that racists say.
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Apparently 1,100 clubs and bars have closed in London over the last 3 years. That tells its own story. Pubs and clubs might well still be full, there are just far fewer of them. The centre, Soho and south bank are probably all still doing well, with the tourist trade as much as anything.
When I was still living in Shepherds Bush I can think of 4 pubs in that area that closed. That was a while back now, but let's face it pubs have steadily been closing everywhere for quite a long period now.
Were QPR your second team, RD, when you were living in Shepherds Bush?
Nah, though I lived literally just two streets from the ground.
I didn't vandalise the Blue Peter Italian sunken garden either, which was also just a stones throw away.
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You would know all about that Iberian
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
Not sure where you’ve got your info from Selby, but as a long time resident of our fair capital I can assure you that public transport down here is light years ahead of the rest of the country. It’s fairly cheap, very convenient and pretty safe.
As River Don points out, a night out down here (in the centre of London anyway) isn’t cheap at all. £7 a pint isn’t unusual. Young ‘uns these days simply can’t afford it very often. Saying that, you’ll struggle to find an empty boozer in the west end on an evening.
About it not being an English city anymore, what makes you say that?
Ignorance.
Ignorance.
Bigotry.
Racism.
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
Not sure where you’ve got your info from Selby, but as a long time resident of our fair capital I can assure you that public transport down here is light years ahead of the rest of the country. It’s fairly cheap, very convenient and pretty safe.
As River Don points out, a night out down here (in the centre of London anyway) isn’t cheap at all. £7 a pint isn’t unusual. Young ‘uns these days simply can’t afford it very often. Saying that, you’ll struggle to find an empty boozer in the west end on an evening.
About it not being an English city anymore, what makes you say that?
Ignorance.
Ignorance.
Bigotry.
Racism.
They do tend to go hand in hand don't they Pancho.
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
Not sure where you’ve got your info from Selby, but as a long time resident of our fair capital I can assure you that public transport down here is light years ahead of the rest of the country. It’s fairly cheap, very convenient and pretty safe.
As River Don points out, a night out down here (in the centre of London anyway) isn’t cheap at all. £7 a pint isn’t unusual. Young ‘uns these days simply can’t afford it very often. Saying that, you’ll struggle to find an empty boozer in the west end on an evening.
About it not being an English city anymore, what makes you say that?
Ignorance.
Ignorance.
Bigotry.
Racism.
They do tend to go hand in hand don't they Pancho.
They do indeed IR.
Selby, or one of his mates, might be along soon to tell us he was just casting his bait in order to catch one of us stupid, unsuspecting, ‘woke’ lefties.
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anyone remember this
2011 Census: 45% of Londoners white British
which makes you wonder what the 2021 (?) percentage was
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20680565
and this
AS usual make your own decision - Mrs Coleman said "How does he manage when he is walking down the street ?"
"BBC Radio 5 Live presenter Nihal Arthanayake has said an “overwhelmingly white” working environment is affecting his mental health."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/other/bbc-presenter-says-overwhelmingly-white-workplace-affects-his-mental-health/ar-AA1kIVmj?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=5b5d001c673a4dc8acd7383b77c4fb72&ei=21
BBC Radio 5 Live presenter Nihal Arthanayake has said an “overwhelmingly white” working environment is affecting his mental health.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The presenter told a journalism diversity conference on Wednesday: “It’s really affecting me that I walk in and all I see is white people.”
His colleagues’ response when he told them this was to reply defensively that they were not being racist, he claimed as he said that was missing the point.
Speaking at the Journalism Diversity Fund (JDF) conference at BBC Media City in Salford, he said: “I’ve seen a lot of people leave this building because they couldn’t deal with the culture.”
He also said others found they had to try to be a certain type of person to progress with the broadcaster, adding: “If you want journalists to progress, they have to be who they are.”
“I don’t think there’s a single Muslim involved in the senior editorial processes” at BBC Radio 5 Live, he added.
He went on: “The hardest thing is to walk into a room, look around and nobody looks like you.”
The presenter made the comments in an on-stage interview with Jo Adetunji, editor of The Conversation, at the JDF’s annual equality, diversity and inclusion conference organised by the NCTJ, which trains new journalists.
The JDF awards bursaries to aspiring journalists from diverse backgrounds who do not have the financial means to support themselves through their training.
here's the punchline ..... Mr Arthanayake added that he has noticed a difference since moving north after living in London for 20 years.
He said: “Since moving up here, being called the P-word – that didn’t happen in London. You’d get a slap for that in London, not even from me.”
Following the interview, Cheryl Varley, a BBC Radio 5 Live producer, said the organisation is committed to tackling the lack of diversity in its newsrooms.
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My lad lives in Balham. The weekend there starts on a Thursday. The pubs, clubs and restaurants are always heaving. Clapham too. And Brixton. And Wandsworth. Where most of his mates live.
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I’m genuinely interested to know why anyone would claim that London isn’t an English city anymore? What is behind this, specifically? Is it non-white people living here, the number of different languages spoken, maybe different religions? Or could it be the number of foreign cars on the roads, maybe it’s too many Chinese takeaways, or possibly that many folk who do the most ‘menial’ jobs are of foreign descent?
I’m not going to accuse anyone of being racist but I’d like to know, specifically, what it is about London that makes it ‘no longer English’?
Oh, and for the record, I’m sure that every single person of colour that I know and living in London classes themselves as English. They get up and go to work, they like to relax in front of the telly, some of them like a pint, most go to the football (West Ham & Spurs mostly), they want England to win at the cricket (There you go Norman Tebbitt), and they joined in the street parties for the Queens birthday. A couple of them even served in the armed forces too. They just happen to have skin that’s tinted a bit differently to mine.
So, if I need to tell them that their city isn’t English anymore then I’d appreciate a bit of rationale if possible?
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I’m genuinely interested to know why anyone would claim that London isn’t an English city anymore? What is behind this, specifically? Is it non-white people living here, the number of different languages spoken, maybe different religions? Or could it be the number of foreign cars on the roads, maybe it’s too many Chinese takeaways, or possibly that many folk who do the most ‘menial’ jobs are of foreign descent?
I’m not going to accuse anyone of being racist but I’d like to know, specifically, what it is about London that makes it ‘no longer English’?
Oh, and for the record, I’m sure that every single person of colour that I know and living in London classes themselves as English. They get up and go to work, they like to relax in front of the telly, some of them like a pint, most go to the football (West Ham & Spurs mostly), they want England to win at the cricket (There you go Norman Tebbitt), and they joined in the street parties for the Queens birthday. A couple of them even served in the armed forces too. They just happen to have skin that’s tinted a bit differently to mine.
So, if I need to tell them that their city isn’t English anymore then I’d appreciate a bit of rationale if possible?
You won't get any HA, there's something gnawing away at selby, the last time he 'went there' Israel/Palestine was being discussed also.
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I am not a racist Wilts, its the modern way of closing realists down.
It's Billy's go to get out and others. They prefer to sleep walk and shout.
I think you are confusing me with Tony Soprano, Selby. It was he who wrote that it was 'obvious' what your post meant.
I lived in London for 4 years in the late 80's-early 90's (Wembley, Islington, Caterham) & Bethnal Green late 90's. Also lived in Amsterdam, Nuremberg, near Tel Aviv and met a lot of people in those places who weren't born in those places.
In answer to Coleman's question above - I gave the answer in an earlier post. The data is here:
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/uk-population-by-ethnicity/national-and-regional-populations/regional-ethnic-diversity/latest/
And adding to Herbert's above - there has always been a decent % of soldiers in the British Army who were 'non-white' - it's currently around 11%. Are they not 'British?
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/diversity-on-the-rise-in-uk-armed-forces-say-figures/
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People refer to London as no longer English because they claim its British culture has diminished. It's a bit like the Spanish claiming Benidorm is no longer culturally a Spanish city, although it only has around 10% foreign residency.
London has around 37% foreign residency.
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Maybe we can get the government to define what English culture is? It's quite different up and down the country.
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People refer to London as no longer English because they claim its British culture has diminished. It's a bit like the Spanish claiming Benidorm is no longer culturally a Spanish city, although it only has around 10% foreign residency.
London has around 37% foreign residency.
.... A bit like Aboriginal culture being diminished in Australia.
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anyone remember this
2011 Census: 45% of Londoners white British
which makes you wonder what the 2021 (?) percentage was
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20680565
and this
AS usual make your own decision - Mrs Coleman said "How does he manage when he is walking down the street ?"
"BBC Radio 5 Live presenter Nihal Arthanayake has said an “overwhelmingly white” working environment is affecting his mental health."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/other/bbc-presenter-says-overwhelmingly-white-workplace-affects-his-mental-health/ar-AA1kIVmj?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=5b5d001c673a4dc8acd7383b77c4fb72&ei=21
BBC Radio 5 Live presenter Nihal Arthanayake has said an “overwhelmingly white” working environment is affecting his mental health.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The presenter told a journalism diversity conference on Wednesday: “It’s really affecting me that I walk in and all I see is white people.”
His colleagues’ response when he told them this was to reply defensively that they were not being racist, he claimed as he said that was missing the point.
Speaking at the Journalism Diversity Fund (JDF) conference at BBC Media City in Salford, he said: “I’ve seen a lot of people leave this building because they couldn’t deal with the culture.”
He also said others found they had to try to be a certain type of person to progress with the broadcaster, adding: “If you want journalists to progress, they have to be who they are.”
“I don’t think there’s a single Muslim involved in the senior editorial processes” at BBC Radio 5 Live, he added.
He went on: “The hardest thing is to walk into a room, look around and nobody looks like you.”
The presenter made the comments in an on-stage interview with Jo Adetunji, editor of The Conversation, at the JDF’s annual equality, diversity and inclusion conference organised by the NCTJ, which trains new journalists.
The JDF awards bursaries to aspiring journalists from diverse backgrounds who do not have the financial means to support themselves through their training.
here's the punchline ..... Mr Arthanayake added that he has noticed a difference since moving north after living in London for 20 years.
He said: “Since moving up here, being called the P-word – that didn’t happen in London. You’d get a slap for that in London, not even from me.”
Following the interview, Cheryl Varley, a BBC Radio 5 Live producer, said the organisation is committed to tackling the lack of diversity in its newsrooms.
So the implication there is that to be a proper Brit you have to be white?
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People refer to London as no longer English because they claim its British culture has diminished. It's a bit like the Spanish claiming Benidorm is no longer culturally a Spanish city, although it only has around 10% foreign residency.
London has around 37% foreign residency.
.... A bit like Aboriginal culture being diminished in Australia.
Aboriginal culture is right there bb, but just like in London, It's that it has change and evolved is all and it scares some people apparently.
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People refer to London as no longer English because they claim its British culture has diminished. It's a bit like the Spanish claiming Benidorm is no longer culturally a Spanish city, although it only has around 10% foreign residency.
London has around 37% foreign residency.
.... A bit like Aboriginal culture being diminished in Australia.
Aboriginal culture is right there bb, but just like in London, It's that it has change and evolved is all and it scares some people apparently.
so would you call the scared Aboriginals racists?
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So you want to divert the topic bb? if you genuinely want to discuss aboriginal culture start another thread.
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Skip that answer aye, Skippy.
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You could make a sensible start and explain what you think English culture is bb.
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I’m genuinely interested to know why anyone would claim that London isn’t an English city anymore? What is behind this, specifically? Is it non-white people living here, the number of different languages spoken, maybe different religions? Or could it be the number of foreign cars on the roads, maybe it’s too many Chinese takeaways, or possibly that many folk who do the most ‘menial’ jobs are of foreign descent?
I’m not going to accuse anyone of being racist but I’d like to know, specifically, what it is about London that makes it ‘no longer English’?
Oh, and for the record, I’m sure that every single person of colour that I know and living in London classes themselves as English. They get up and go to work, they like to relax in front of the telly, some of them like a pint, most go to the football (West Ham & Spurs mostly), they want England to win at the cricket (There you go Norman Tebbitt), and they joined in the street parties for the Queens birthday. A couple of them even served in the armed forces too. They just happen to have skin that’s tinted a bit differently to mine.
So, if I need to tell them that their city isn’t English anymore then I’d appreciate a bit of rationale if possible?
Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds, and religions.
If that makes me a racist to Billy and his cohort of lefty bedwetting snowflakes on this forum, then I couldn't care less.
In the real world, talking to sane moderate people is where you find the real consensus.
People like them live in a tiny microcosm, reading the guardian and socialist social media channels, talking to other like minded people on their hard left forums, it just serves to fuel their hard left radical views.
So when they poke their heads out into the real world, they become shocked that regular people don't think the same way.
So no london isn't an English city, its a global city.
Englishness is being pushed out, like the celts were by the saxons.
I'll finish by asking just how diversity is our strength? As the mayor of said city said once after a terror attack.
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Would you like to offer up what English culture is TS?
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If you can't describe what a thing is, how do you know if you are losing it?
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
Not sure where you’ve got your info from Selby, but as a long time resident of our fair capital I can assure you that public transport down here is light years ahead of the rest of the country. It’s fairly cheap, very convenient and pretty safe.
As River Don points out, a night out down here (in the centre of London anyway) isn’t cheap at all. £7 a pint isn’t unusual. Young ‘uns these days simply can’t afford it very often. Saying that, you’ll struggle to find an empty boozer in the west end on an evening.
About it not being an English city anymore, what makes you say that?
Ignorance.
Ignorance.
Bigotry.
Racism.
They do tend to go hand in hand don't they Pancho.
They do indeed IR.
Selby, or one of his mates, might be along soon to tell us he was just casting his bait in order to catch one of us stupid, unsuspecting, ‘woke’ lefties.
You were bang on Pancho.
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I’m genuinely interested to know why anyone would claim that London isn’t an English city anymore? What is behind this, specifically? Is it non-white people living here, the number of different languages spoken, maybe different religions? Or could it be the number of foreign cars on the roads, maybe it’s too many Chinese takeaways, or possibly that many folk who do the most ‘menial’ jobs are of foreign descent?
I’m not going to accuse anyone of being racist but I’d like to know, specifically, what it is about London that makes it ‘no longer English’?
Oh, and for the record, I’m sure that every single person of colour that I know and living in London classes themselves as English. They get up and go to work, they like to relax in front of the telly, some of them like a pint, most go to the football (West Ham & Spurs mostly), they want England to win at the cricket (There you go Norman Tebbitt), and they joined in the street parties for the Queens birthday. A couple of them even served in the armed forces too. They just happen to have skin that’s tinted a bit differently to mine.
So, if I need to tell them that their city isn’t English anymore then I’d appreciate a bit of rationale if possible?
Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds, and religions.
If that makes me a racist to Billy and his cohort of lefty bedwetting snowflakes on this forum, then I couldn't care less.
In the real world, talking to sane moderate people is where you find the real consensus.
People like them live in a tiny microcosm, reading the guardian and socialist social media channels, talking to other like minded people on their hard left forums, it just serves to fuel their hard left radical views.
So when they poke their heads out into the real world, they become shocked that regular people don't think the same way.
So no london isn't an English city, its a global city.
Englishness is being pushed out, like the celts were by the saxons.
I'll finish by asking just how diversity is our strength? As the mayor of said city said once after a terror attack.
Bingo.
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I’m genuinely interested to know why anyone would claim that London isn’t an English city anymore? What is behind this, specifically? Is it non-white people living here, the number of different languages spoken, maybe different religions? Or could it be the number of foreign cars on the roads, maybe it’s too many Chinese takeaways, or possibly that many folk who do the most ‘menial’ jobs are of foreign descent?
I’m not going to accuse anyone of being racist but I’d like to know, specifically, what it is about London that makes it ‘no longer English’?
Oh, and for the record, I’m sure that every single person of colour that I know and living in London classes themselves as English. They get up and go to work, they like to relax in front of the telly, some of them like a pint, most go to the football (West Ham & Spurs mostly), they want England to win at the cricket (There you go Norman Tebbitt), and they joined in the street parties for the Queens birthday. A couple of them even served in the armed forces too. They just happen to have skin that’s tinted a bit differently to mine.
So, if I need to tell them that their city isn’t English anymore then I’d appreciate a bit of rationale if possible?
Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds, and religions.
If that makes me a racist to Billy and his cohort of lefty bedwetting snowflakes on this forum, then I couldn't care less.
In the real world, talking to sane moderate people is where you find the real consensus.
People like them live in a tiny microcosm, reading the guardian and socialist social media channels, talking to other like minded people on their hard left forums, it just serves to fuel their hard left radical views.
So when they poke their heads out into the real world, they become shocked that regular people don't think the same way.
So no london isn't an English city, its a global city.
Englishness is being pushed out, like the celts were by the saxons.
I'll finish by asking just how diversity is our strength? As the mayor of said city said once after a terror attack.
Sorry TS, but I don’t really understand your point. Are you saying that people should be a specific colour, creed or religion to be English? I have friends in South London who are Asian Muslims and born in London. They absolutely class themselves as English. I have a black friend who’s a Buddhist and born in East London. Do they make London less English?
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This says it all really, things are so bad that the Capital city is a dangerous unsafe place for members of the Jewish faith every weekend!
And a great deal of this is immigrant communities isolating, and polarising into groups where they don’t have to integrate into British society or even bother to learn to speak English,the Woke privileged left wing elements of our society are to blame, and we are heading down the same road as Sweden!
Adviser warns London a 'no-go zone for Jews every weekend' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68508351
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This says it all really, things are so bad that the Capital city is a dangerous unsafe place for members of the Jewish faith every weekend!
And a great deal of this is immigrant communities isolating, and polarising into groups where they don’t have to integrate into British society or even bother to learn to speak English,the Woke privileged left wing elements of our society are to blame, and we are heading down the same road as Sweden!
Adviser warns London a 'no-go zone for Jews every weekend' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68508351
... from a spokesman for Sunak, who is clamping down on protests for whatever reason. No evidence, and most notably states the false, illogical notion of anti Zionism being the same as anti semitism as being the cornerstone of their reasoning. BBC, Sunak, speaking poop? Surely not.
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This says it all really, things are so bad that the Capital city is a dangerous unsafe place for members of the Jewish faith every weekend!
And a great deal of this is immigrant communities isolating, and polarising into groups where they don’t have to integrate into British society or even bother to learn to speak English,the Woke privileged left wing elements of our society are to blame, and we are heading down the same road as Sweden!
Adviser warns London a 'no-go zone for Jews every weekend' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68508351
I wonder if your parents felt the same way sprot?
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This says it all really, things are so bad that the Capital city is a dangerous unsafe place for members of the Jewish faith every weekend!
And a great deal of this is immigrant communities isolating, and polarising into groups where they don’t have to integrate into British society or even bother to learn to speak English,the Woke privileged left wing elements of our society are to blame, and we are heading down the same road as Sweden!
Adviser warns London a 'no-go zone for Jews every weekend' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68508351
I wonder if your parents felt the same way sprot?
They most certainly didn’t, mum worked for the NHS and Dad down the Pit.neither of them ever bothered to become British citizens, they kept their own Nationality.
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This says it all really, things are so bad that the Capital city is a dangerous unsafe place for members of the Jewish faith every weekend!
And a great deal of this is immigrant communities isolating, and polarising into groups where they don’t have to integrate into British society or even bother to learn to speak English,the Woke privileged left wing elements of our society are to blame, and we are heading down the same road as Sweden!
Adviser warns London a 'no-go zone for Jews every weekend' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68508351
Which immigrant communities are you talking about Sproty? The Aussies around Kensington? The Irish in Kilburn? The Spanish in Brixton? The Jews in Golders Green? The Poles in East Ham? Also, interested to hear your personal experiences of communities isolating themselves in London? Finally, interested to hear about the woke lefty elements who you blame? Last I heard, the right wing Tories were in power?
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This says it all really, things are so bad that the Capital city is a dangerous unsafe place for members of the Jewish faith every weekend!
And a great deal of this is immigrant communities isolating, and polarising into groups where they don’t have to integrate into British society or even bother to learn to speak English,the Woke privileged left wing elements of our society are to blame, and we are heading down the same road as Sweden!
Adviser warns London a 'no-go zone for Jews every weekend' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68508351
Which immigrant communities are you talking about Sproty? The Aussies around Kensington? The Irish in Kilburn? The Spanish in Brixton? The Jews in Golders Green? The Poles in East Ham? Also, interested to hear your personal experiences of communities isolating themselves in London? Finally, interested to hear about the woke lefty elements who you blame? Last I heard, the right wing Tories were in power?
[/quotewho is in power in London? I note it is Labour,by the way do you live in one of those gated communities in Chelsea, you don’t even understand the Denographics of the Capital.do you?
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Hmmm, interesting, I wasn't aware a Lord Mayor controlled either immigration or where people can or can't live.
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This says it all really, things are so bad that the Capital city is a dangerous unsafe place for members of the Jewish faith every weekend!
And a great deal of this is immigrant communities isolating, and polarising into groups where they don’t have to integrate into British society or even bother to learn to speak English,the Woke privileged left wing elements of our society are to blame, and we are heading down the same road as Sweden!
Adviser warns London a 'no-go zone for Jews every weekend' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68508351
Which immigrant communities are you talking about Sproty? The Aussies around Kensington? The Irish in Kilburn? The Spanish in Brixton? The Jews in Golders Green? The Poles in East Ham? Also, interested to hear your personal experiences of communities isolating themselves in London? Finally, interested to hear about the woke lefty elements who you blame? Last I heard, the right wing Tories were in power?
[/quotewho is in power in London? I note it is Labour,by the way do you live in one of those gated communities in Chelsea, you don’t even understand the Denographics of the Capital.do you?
I don’t think that you understand how politics London works Sproty. No I don’t live in a gated community in Chelsea and I’d wager that I understand demographics in the capital better than you.
I’d respectfully suggest that I know many more people in London who are immigrants or descendants than you do. I can guarantee that the vast, vast majority of these are good, hard working members of the community and, despite the claims in the OP, consider themselves English. I’d also suggest that this fact won’t make the slightest bit of difference to you as you’ve already made your mind up based on your own (false) prejudices.
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People refer to London as no longer English because they claim its British culture has diminished. It's a bit like the Spanish claiming Benidorm is no longer culturally a Spanish city, although it only has around 10% foreign residency.
London has around 37% foreign residency.
This argument suggests that foreign people moving to London don’t embrace British Culture. I don’t see this in reality at all.
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May 2019
The Fawlty Towers actor John Cleese has been criticised for repeating his 2011 claim that London was no longer an English city.
Last year, the Monty Python comic announced that he was moving to the Caribbean because he was disappointed with Britain.
The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, said: “These comments make John Cleese sound like he’s in character as Basil Fawlty. Londoners know that our diversity is our greatest strength. We are proudly the English capital, a European city and a global hub.”
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2019/may/29/john-cleese-criticised-for-saying-london-is-no-longer-an-english-city
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May 2019
The Fawlty Towers actor John Cleese has been criticised for repeating his 2011 claim that London was no longer an English city.
Last year, the Monty Python comic announced that he was moving to the Caribbean because he was disappointed with Britain.
The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, said: “These comments make John Cleese sound like he’s in character as Basil Fawlty. Londoners know that our diversity is our greatest strength. We are proudly the English capital, a European city and a global hub.”
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2019/may/29/john-cleese-criticised-for-saying-london-is-no-longer-an-english-city
Ha I recall a wastrel gobby programme seller broadcasting the fact that he had had enough of the UK and was moving to Australia and that was under a Labour Government, wasn’t it Syd?
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Dunno sprot, it's your story you're making it up.
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Is it racist to say that London is becoming "non-English"? It's a clumsy way of putting it yes and it does provide an open-goal to the usual suspects who love to leap on that kind of comment and scream "racist".
Is it racist to state the fact that since the late 90s and particularly under the years of the Blair government(s), that population diversity in London has increased at a higher rate than in any previous historical period, to such an extent that in 2011 it was reported that White-British people had become a minority in the City for the first time? I believe that trend and rate of diversification has continued since then.
A number of posters on this thread claim only to deal in facts, backed up by hard statistics. There are plenty of stats out there relating to the diversification of the London population. I'm not sure it's racist to point out what seems to be an incontrovertible fact.
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The problem is that saying 'London is losing its Englishness' (whatever that is) is promulgating the argument that non-whites cannot be English, which is racist, no?
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I don't know Syd, you might be able to explain why you think losing its English heritage is associated with colour, as you are the one that associated it with the subject, it never entered my head.
Your a big part of the problem, linking things that you disagree with to others being racist, insulting them, it's your go to get out, your probably sick, go to the doctors.
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
You are wrong again selby it's you that has to explain what the above means if it is not racist
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Is it racist to say that London is becoming "non-English"? It's a clumsy way of putting it yes and it does provide an open-goal to the usual suspects who love to leap on that kind of comment and scream "racist".
Is it racist to state the fact that since the late 90s and particularly under the years of the Blair government(s), that population diversity in London has increased at a higher rate than in any previous historical period, to such an extent that in 2011 it was reported that White-British people had become a minority in the City for the first time? I believe that trend and rate of diversification has continued since then.
A number of posters on this thread claim only to deal in facts, backed up by hard statistics. There are plenty of stats out there relating to the diversification of the London population. I'm not sure it's racist to point out what seems to be an incontrovertible fact.
Tommy, I'm trying to get to the bottom of why some people think that London isn't an English city and so far all I've had is some vague points about English culture?
Are you saying that it's all down to race and creed? Are people of colour less English than white people? Can you only be English and adhere to English culture, if you're white? A bloke who lives near me is Scottish and has a Scottish flag in his window, but he's white. If you suggested to him that he should adhere to English culture more than he does, you'd probably get a good hiding. Is he included in this?
Despite the fact that I've given numerous, real life examples where non white people in London (who I know well) consider themselves English, it doesn't seem to be hitting home.
Maybe I just don't understand? If I've got the wrong end of the stick I'm happy to be corrected.
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I don't know Syd, you might be able to explain why you think losing its English heritage is associated with colour, as you are the one that associated it with the subject, it never entered my head.
Your a big part of the problem, linking things that you disagree with to others being racist, insulting them, it's your go to get out, your probably sick, go to the doctors.
Selby, I am really interested to know, specifically, why you feel that London isn't English and whether you have any personal experiences of this. For the record, I'm not looking to argue with you or anyone else about it, but it sounds like your experience is very different from what I see every single day down here so I am really curious to know what drives this?
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I don't know Syd, you might be able to explain why you think losing its English heritage is associated with colour, as you are the one that associated it with the subject, it never entered my head.
Your a big part of the problem, linking things that you disagree with to others being racist, insulting them, it's your go to get out, your probably sick, go to the doctors.
Start with something simple selby, explain what English heritage is, when you've done that maybe explain what Englishness is and then maybe we can subtract that definition from what you think London used to be and we'll have an explanation.
C'mon selby, speak up, these are the terms you've used in your arguments, you must know what they mean, I'd hate to think you're all mouth no trousers.
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I love visiting our capital whether that's for work, mini-breaks or Rovers awaydays. You'd struggle to find another city in the UK that has more St. George's crosses or Union Flags flying. They're everywhere.
People from all over the world have made a home in London, many of whom have come from erstwhile parts of the British Empire. It's fantastic to have such a wealth of food and music to enjoy in one place. People from numerous cultural backgrounds living for the most part very happily side by side and interacting with one another can only be a good thing as it makes us all realise that we're all just people who are broadly the same. Yes, there are extremists in any subculture but they are very much in the minority. Most people are just getting on with living their lives, providing for their families and contributing to the economy. It's not in the interests of "divide and conquer" or culture war politics to highlight this. People living normal lives and getting on with each other doesn't sell clicks or draw attention away from the serious issues of corruption. Pointing at people who look a bit different and saying "look what they're doing to your country" provides a much better foil for the avaricious few to line their pockets.
Is London (or Britain) the same as it was 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago? No it isn't. And that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Things change with the times. It's a vibrant and exciting metropolis with pockets of very traditional British culture around every corner.
If this mythical "Englishness" is some sort of dour, drab, mundane rain-shrouded city full of downtrodden "bulldog spirit" or "stiff upper lip" grit in the face of adversity as people wash down their unseasoned steak pies with pints of mild whilst surrounded by people who all look and sound the same, that's a vision of England that I don't care for. I like a pie and a pint as much as anyone but isn't it wonderful to have the world on our doorstep, an hour and a half's train ride down the ECML?
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Is it racist to say that London is becoming "non-English"? It's a clumsy way of putting it yes and it does provide an open-goal to the usual suspects who love to leap on that kind of comment and scream "racist".
Is it racist to state the fact that since the late 90s and particularly under the years of the Blair government(s), that population diversity in London has increased at a higher rate than in any previous historical period, to such an extent that in 2011 it was reported that White-British people had become a minority in the City for the first time? I believe that trend and rate of diversification has continued since then.
A number of posters on this thread claim only to deal in facts, backed up by hard statistics. There are plenty of stats out there relating to the diversification of the London population. I'm not sure it's racist to point out what seems to be an incontrovertible fact.
My great-great grandparents were part of a very large influx of non-English economic migrants who moved to the North of England looking for work in the 1800s.
They brought with them an alien religion.
The set up their own places of worship.
They educated their kids in their own schools.
Was that social revolution a major problem? Did they make South Yorkshire villages non-English?
Only, Barnburgh, Denaby, Goldthorpe etc look pretty English to me.
I'm not entirely sure I'm getting your point.
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My point was/is, that it isnt racist to identify that the diversification of the London population has increased significantly in the last two decades. I didnt say it was a problem, nor did I say that I welcomed it. My point was simply aimed at those like you who immediately started screaming "racist" at the original poster for pointing something out that seems to me to be an established fact, backed up by the statistics.
"Englishness" is a pretty pointless term which is why i said it was a clumsy word to use. It can't be defined as it means different things to different people and it invariably has negative connotations anyway....things like "little Englander", Brexit, the Union flag, Tommy Robinson and the BNP etc. What we can identify however is that for the first time in history, white-British is now a minority in London. That in itself is going to lead to cultural and societal change. Some of that change may be good, some of it may be bad depending on your view of the world. But anyone who claims that it doesn't result in any societal or cultural change at all is having themselves on. Of course immigration from different cultures and backgrounds contributes to societal and cultural change.
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I hear you TC, but why not let the op explain what he means, he's been asked by plenty and given plenty of time.
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Tommy, you keep referring to "white British". Apart from the bleedin obvious with using that term, are you excluding 3rd generation Irish, Dutch, Polish, Italian, Turkish, from that grouping?
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My point was/is, that it isnt racist to identify that the diversification of the London population has increased significantly in the last two decades. I didnt say it was a problem, nor did I say that I welcomed it. My point was simply aimed at those like you who immediately started screaming "racist" at the original poster for pointing something out that seems to me to be an established fact, backed up by the statistics.
"Englishness" is a pretty pointless term which is why i said it was a clumsy word to use. It can't be defined as it means different things to different people and it invariably has negative connotations anyway....things like "little Englander", Brexit, the Union flag, Tommy Robinson and the BNP etc. What we can identify however is that for the first time in history, white-British is now a minority in London. That in itself is going to lead to cultural and societal change. Some of that change may be good, some of it may be bad depending on your view of the world. But anyone who claims that it doesn't result in any societal or cultural change at all is having themselves on. Of course immigration from different cultures and backgrounds contributes to societal and cultural change.
The OP very clearly said that London isn't an English city anymore. Not that it's 'non-white' (though that doesn't make sense either). So I'm trying to clarify whether the two are linked!
Is London no longer considered English because there's so many non-white people or is it down to cultural & societal changes as you hinted at? I realise that I'm unfairly trying to get an answer from you although you didn't make the OP, but I am truly baffled by this.
For the record, London has gone through significant cultural and societal changes throughout its history and I'm not sure that it's ever been defined as 'not English' in the past when these changes have occurred, so am wondering what's different now?
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Tommy, you keep referring to "white British". Apart from the bleedin obvious with using that term, are you excluding 3rd generation Irish, Dutch, Polish, Italian, Turkish, from that grouping?
I have no idea what you mean by "the bleedin obvious with using that term" . You'll find it as an option to tick on pretty much any equality and diversity survey you'll ever undertake and it's the term used by the ONS themselves alongside Asian British and Black British, Black Welsh, Asian Welsh etc when they undertale the census.
That aside, I believe it's actually down to what the person themself chooses to identify themself as rather than what label is given to them. I believe there are 19 ethnic groups as well as the option to write in your own. It's not for me to include or exlcude anyone!
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My point was/is, that it isnt racist to identify that the diversification of the London population has increased significantly in the last two decades. I didnt say it was a problem, nor did I say that I welcomed it. My point was simply aimed at those like you who immediately started screaming "racist" at the original poster for pointing something out that seems to me to be an established fact, backed up by the statistics.
"Englishness" is a pretty pointless term which is why i said it was a clumsy word to use. It can't be defined as it means different things to different people and it invariably has negative connotations anyway....things like "little Englander", Brexit, the Union flag, Tommy Robinson and the BNP etc. What we can identify however is that for the first time in history, white-British is now a minority in London. That in itself is going to lead to cultural and societal change. Some of that change may be good, some of it may be bad depending on your view of the world. But anyone who claims that it doesn't result in any societal or cultural change at all is having themselves on. Of course immigration from different cultures and backgrounds contributes to societal and cultural change.
The OP very clearly said that London isn't an English city anymore. Not that it's 'non-white' (though that doesn't make sense either). So I'm trying to clarify whether the two are linked!
Is London no longer considered English because there's so many non-white people or is it down to cultural & societal changes as you hinted at? I realise that I'm unfairly trying to get an answer from you although you didn't make the OP, but I am truly baffled by this.
For the record, London has gone through significant cultural and societal changes throughout its history and I'm not sure that it's ever been defined as 'not English' in the past when these changes have occurred, so am wondering what's different now?
Well, as you say it isnt really for me to predict what he meant. However, given he used the word "english", an appropriate place to start could be the decline in English as the first spoken language in the London population? I'm not saying I think that's a bad thing but you did ask for examples so why not start there.
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My point was/is, that it isnt racist to identify that the diversification of the London population has increased significantly in the last two decades. I didnt say it was a problem, nor did I say that I welcomed it. My point was simply aimed at those like you who immediately started screaming "racist" at the original poster for pointing something out that seems to me to be an established fact, backed up by the statistics.
"Englishness" is a pretty pointless term which is why i said it was a clumsy word to use. It can't be defined as it means different things to different people and it invariably has negative connotations anyway....things like "little Englander", Brexit, the Union flag, Tommy Robinson and the BNP etc. What we can identify however is that for the first time in history, white-British is now a minority in London. That in itself is going to lead to cultural and societal change. Some of that change may be good, some of it may be bad depending on your view of the world. But anyone who claims that it doesn't result in any societal or cultural change at all is having themselves on. Of course immigration from different cultures and backgrounds contributes to societal and cultural change.
The OP very clearly said that London isn't an English city anymore. Not that it's 'non-white' (though that doesn't make sense either). So I'm trying to clarify whether the two are linked!
Is London no longer considered English because there's so many non-white people or is it down to cultural & societal changes as you hinted at? I realise that I'm unfairly trying to get an answer from you although you didn't make the OP, but I am truly baffled by this.
For the record, London has gone through significant cultural and societal changes throughout its history and I'm not sure that it's ever been defined as 'not English' in the past when these changes have occurred, so am wondering what's different now?
Well, as you say it isnt really for me to predict what he meant. However, given he used the word "english", an appropriate place to start could be the decline in English as the first spoken language in the London population? I'm not saying I think that's a bad thing but you did ask for examples so why not start there.
You think that the driver for considering London to be Non-English could be down to the decline in English as a first language? That's an interesting concept. Everyone whom I know that doesn't have English as the language that they use at home has English as a very good second language. Some people don't that's true though. Using that logic though, there's towns and cities in Canada that aren't Canadian because their first language is French! Then of course you have those countries where English has taken over from the native tongue. English is the first language of Accra in Ghana, but nobody would dispute it's a Ghanaian city would they?
Let's cut to the chase here - could it be that some people feel that London isn't an English city anymore because (shock horror!!) it has people who are a different colour, religion and creed?
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I'm interested to know which are aspects of English culture that some people feel they're not able to do in London?
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Societies change. They always have and they always will. What always comes out the other end is different from what went in. Always been the way. Some people embrace that, some feel threatened by it.
https://youtu.be/a17duTUK6qw?feature=shared
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Societies change. They always have and they always will. What always comes out the other end is different from what went in. Always been the way. Some people embrace that, some feel threatened by it.
https://youtu.be/a17duTUK6qw?feature=shared
How dare you Billy!
I have just PMSL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a17duTUK6qw
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Societies change. They always have and they always will. What always comes out the other end is different from what went in. Always been the way. Some people embrace that, some feel threatened by it.
https://youtu.be/a17duTUK6qw?feature=shared
How dare you Billy!
I have just PMSL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a17duTUK6qw
My pleasure Sproty.
Several competitors there for the best line in comedy history.
"Anglo Saxons! If you come over here, learn to speak the f**king language!"
"400 million years ago when the first fish crawled out of the sea onto the land. OUR land!"
"Bloody Indians and Pakistanis! Coming over here! Inventing us a national cuisine."
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Stewart Lee. A 21st-century 'comedian' who makes a living out of acting the racist bigot and making the Loony Left laugh. The same Loony Left that condemned comedian Alf Garnett for doing EXACTLY the same in the 60s!
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Societies change. They always have and they always will. What always comes out the other end is different from what went in. Always been the way. Some people embrace that, some feel threatened by it.
https://youtu.be/a17duTUK6qw?feature=shared
This is true.
However I do have to ask, do you believe we should strive to conserve, maintain, preserve or protect any aspects of our history, culture and society at all? Or is everything fair game in the name of progression? Not having a pop, i'm genuinely interested to hear your take.
Nobody doubts that societies change. The historical changes to society have historically taken place over long periods of time and have been a gradual process. Surely you can acknowledge that mass immigration seen on the significantly elevated levels of the last 20 years in such large numbers over a relatively short space of time, whilst might bring economic benefit and cultural enrichment to some, might also have negative social consequences in other areas?
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Stewart Lee. A 21st-century 'comedian' who makes a living out of acting the racist bigot and making the Loony Left laugh. The same Loony Left that condemned comedian Alf Garnett for doing EXACTLY the same in the 60s!
Actually BB, it was the Rabid Right who condemned Alf Garnett, as they failed to see that he was taking the piss out of racists and bigots - showing them up for what they were/still are.
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Tommy.
Serious question here. What do you mean by "OUR history, culture and society"?
Define that and I'll have a go at answering your question.
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Tommy.
Serious question here. What do you mean by "OUR history, culture and society"?
Define that and I'll have a go at answering your question.
Well, by "our" I meant as citizens of this country.
Surely you agree that all countries have societal norms and characteristics that gives them their own personality? Or are all countries of the world the same to you?
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I don't believe that Tommy. At least not as a clear, unquestioned homogeneous mass. I think individuals and small communities have concepts of what their "culture" is. But I think it's a fallacy, and often a dangerous fallacy to insist that nations have a clear "culture".
I'll give you a couple of examples.
Maybe you could persuade me by giving me some concrete examples of what you think defines our "national culture"?
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Stewart Lee. A 21st-century 'comedian' who makes a living out of acting the racist bigot and making the Loony Left laugh. The same Loony Left that condemned comedian Alf Garnett for doing EXACTLY the same in the 60s!
Actually BB, it was the Rabid Right who condemned Alf Garnett, as they failed to see that he was taking the piss out of racists and bigots - showing them up for what they were/still are.
Rubbish. The loony Lefties condemned it, and they STILL do on this forum!
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I don't believe that Tommy. At least not as a clear, unquestioned homogeneous mass. I think individuals and small communities have concepts of what their "culture" is. But I think it's a fallacy, and often a dangerous fallacy to insist that nations have a clear "culture".
I'll give you a couple of examples.
Maybe you could persuade me by giving me some concrete examples of what you think defines our "national culture"?
Okay, I believe that in "British" society we do not discriminate against women and homosexuals. Would you agree?
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I’m genuinely interested to know why anyone would claim that London isn’t an English city anymore? What is behind this, specifically? Is it non-white people living here, the number of different languages spoken, maybe different religions? Or could it be the number of foreign cars on the roads, maybe it’s too many Chinese takeaways, or possibly that many folk who do the most ‘menial’ jobs are of foreign descent?
I’m not going to accuse anyone of being racist but I’d like to know, specifically, what it is about London that makes it ‘no longer English’?
Oh, and for the record, I’m sure that every single person of colour that I know and living in London classes themselves as English. They get up and go to work, they like to relax in front of the telly, some of them like a pint, most go to the football (West Ham & Spurs mostly), they want England to win at the cricket (There you go Norman Tebbitt), and they joined in the street parties for the Queens birthday. A couple of them even served in the armed forces too. They just happen to have skin that’s tinted a bit differently to mine.
So, if I need to tell them that their city isn’t English anymore then I’d appreciate a bit of rationale if possible?
Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds, and religions.
If that makes me a racist to Billy and his cohort of lefty bedwetting snowflakes on this forum, then I couldn't care less.
In the real world, talking to sane moderate people is where you find the real consensus.
People like them live in a tiny microcosm, reading the guardian and socialist social media channels, talking to other like minded people on their hard left forums, it just serves to fuel their hard left radical views.
So when they poke their heads out into the real world, they become shocked that regular people don't think the same way.
So no london isn't an English city, its a global city.
Englishness is being pushed out, like the celts were by the saxons.
I'll finish by asking just how diversity is our strength? As the mayor of said city said once after a terror attack.
Sorry TS, but I don’t really understand your point. Are you saying that people should be a specific colour, creed or religion to be English? I have friends in South London who are Asian Muslims and born in London. They absolutely class themselves as English. I have a black friend who’s a Buddhist and born in East London. Do they make London less English?
I didn't say anything of the sort, why are you bringing colour into it ? Isn't that racist?
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Stewart Lee. A 21st-century 'comedian' who makes a living out of acting the racist bigot and making the Loony Left laugh. The same Loony Left that condemned comedian Alf Garnett for doing EXACTLY the same in the 60s!
Actually BB, it was the Rabid Right who condemned Alf Garnett, as they failed to see that he was taking the piss out of racists and bigots - showing them up for what they were/still are.
Rubbish. The loony Lefties condemned it, and they STILL do on this forum!
I used to enjoy Alf Garnett. It showed right wing bigots for what they are. Both Johnny Speight and Warren Mitchel were Socialist who wanted to hold a mirror up to these morons who made up much of the working class at the time.
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I don't believe that Tommy. At least not as a clear, unquestioned homogeneous mass. I think individuals and small communities have concepts of what their "culture" is. But I think it's a fallacy, and often a dangerous fallacy to insist that nations have a clear "culture".
I'll give you a couple of examples.
Maybe you could persuade me by giving me some concrete examples of what you think defines our "national culture"?
Okay, I believe that in "British" society we do not discriminate against women and homosexuals. Would you agree?
Legally yes, in very recent times. "Culturally" I'd say there's a substantial minority of the population who do think homosexual people are ",different" in a negative sense.
Are we defining "culture" as "what an undefined majority thinks"?
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I’m genuinely interested to know why anyone would claim that London isn’t an English city anymore? What is behind this, specifically? Is it non-white people living here, the number of different languages spoken, maybe different religions? Or could it be the number of foreign cars on the roads, maybe it’s too many Chinese takeaways, or possibly that many folk who do the most ‘menial’ jobs are of foreign descent?
I’m not going to accuse anyone of being racist but I’d like to know, specifically, what it is about London that makes it ‘no longer English’?
Oh, and for the record, I’m sure that every single person of colour that I know and living in London classes themselves as English. They get up and go to work, they like to relax in front of the telly, some of them like a pint, most go to the football (West Ham & Spurs mostly), they want England to win at the cricket (There you go Norman Tebbitt), and they joined in the street parties for the Queens birthday. A couple of them even served in the armed forces too. They just happen to have skin that’s tinted a bit differently to mine.
So, if I need to tell them that their city isn’t English anymore then I’d appreciate a bit of rationale if possible?
Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds, and religions.
If that makes me a racist to Billy and his cohort of lefty bedwetting snowflakes on this forum, then I couldn't care less.
In the real world, talking to sane moderate people is where you find the real consensus.
People like them live in a tiny microcosm, reading the guardian and socialist social media channels, talking to other like minded people on their hard left forums, it just serves to fuel their hard left radical views.
So when they poke their heads out into the real world, they become shocked that regular people don't think the same way.
So no london isn't an English city, its a global city.
Englishness is being pushed out, like the celts were by the saxons.
I'll finish by asking just how diversity is our strength? As the mayor of said city said once after a terror attack.
Sorry TS, but I don’t really understand your point. Are you saying that people should be a specific colour, creed or religion to be English? I have friends in South London who are Asian Muslims and born in London. They absolutely class themselves as English. I have a black friend who’s a Buddhist and born in East London. Do they make London less English?
I didn't say anything of the sort
I asked why London isn’t English anymore and you replied
“Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds and religions “ which seems to suggest that we should only have one of each in London for it to be English.
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I don't believe that Tommy. At least not as a clear, unquestioned homogeneous mass. I think individuals and small communities have concepts of what their "culture" is. But I think it's a fallacy, and often a dangerous fallacy to insist that nations have a clear "culture".
I'll give you a couple of examples.
Maybe you could persuade me by giving me some concrete examples of what you think defines our "national culture"?
Okay, I believe that in "British" society we do not discriminate against women and homosexuals. Would you agree?
Legally yes, in very recent times. "Culturally" I'd say there's a substantial minority of the population who do think homosexual people are ",different" in a negative sense.
Are we defining "culture" as "what an undefined majority thinks"?
No, what I'm really getting at is the crazy situation of migration of certain "cultures" who have beliefs that are somewhat extreme by comparison with where we are as a society.
It's like that little prick Owen Jones marching for Palestine when the first thing they'd do, should he visit there, would be to throw him off the nearest tower block.
To have concern about immigration of religion and cultures that are actually more oppressive and extreme than where "British" society currently is at is concerning to many people.
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Tommy
You'll recall earlier in this thread I noted that there was a large influx of Irish Catholic economic migrants into this region 150 years ago.
The Catholic Church still discriminates against homosexuals.
Did that influx change "our" culture in a negative way?
PS.
I thought we had an interesting discussion going on here, but that remark about Jones is very distasteful.
I don't particularly like him, but implying that he shouldn't care about a slaughter of innocent people because of their supposed "cultural" and religious views is really not worth engaging with.
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On Wednesday me and a few of the lads at work are visiting a community cafe during our break, as we do most Wednesdays. It’s a cafe run by a group of Asian women who make absolutely wonderful curries and there’s no price list. You simply pay what you can afford. All sorts of people visit this cafe and it’s great for people who may be having a bit of a tough time. It’s their way of helping out the community. You know that great British cultural tradition of helping others less fortunate? I’ll mention to them that, because of their culture, religion, skin colour or whatever it is, London isn’t an English city anymore. Im sure they’ll find it hilarious.
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Stewart Lee. A 21st-century 'comedian' who makes a living out of acting the racist bigot and making the Loony Left laugh. The same Loony Left that condemned comedian Alf Garnett for doing EXACTLY the same in the 60s!
Actually BB, it was the Rabid Right who condemned Alf Garnett, as they failed to see that he was taking the piss out of racists and bigots - showing them up for what they were/still are.
Rubbish. The loony Lefties condemned it, and they STILL do on this forum!
I'm on a line for gammon bingo.
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I'm fascinated about who these loony left folk are in here who condemn Til Death Us Do Part for being racist.
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Stewart Lee. A 21st-century 'comedian' who makes a living out of acting the racist bigot and making the Loony Left laugh. The same Loony Left that condemned comedian Alf Garnett for doing EXACTLY the same in the 60s!
Actually BB, it was the Rabid Right who condemned Alf Garnett, as they failed to see that he was taking the piss out of racists and bigots - showing them up for what they were/still are.
Rubbish. The loony Lefties condemned it, and they STILL do on this forum!
Stupid boy! Point me to ant post by someone you call from the 'Loony Left' on here who condemned it. The whole program was aimed at making the Rapid Right racists and bigots look stupid.
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I’m genuinely interested to know why anyone would claim that London isn’t an English city anymore? What is behind this, specifically? Is it non-white people living here, the number of different languages spoken, maybe different religions? Or could it be the number of foreign cars on the roads, maybe it’s too many Chinese takeaways, or possibly that many folk who do the most ‘menial’ jobs are of foreign descent?
I’m not going to accuse anyone of being racist but I’d like to know, specifically, what it is about London that makes it ‘no longer English’?
Oh, and for the record, I’m sure that every single person of colour that I know and living in London classes themselves as English. They get up and go to work, they like to relax in front of the telly, some of them like a pint, most go to the football (West Ham & Spurs mostly), they want England to win at the cricket (There you go Norman Tebbitt), and they joined in the street parties for the Queens birthday. A couple of them even served in the armed forces too. They just happen to have skin that’s tinted a bit differently to mine.
So, if I need to tell them that their city isn’t English anymore then I’d appreciate a bit of rationale if possible?
Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds, and religions.
If that makes me a racist to Billy and his cohort of lefty bedwetting snowflakes on this forum, then I couldn't care less.
In the real world, talking to sane moderate people is where you find the real consensus.
People like them live in a tiny microcosm, reading the guardian and socialist social media channels, talking to other like minded people on their hard left forums, it just serves to fuel their hard left radical views.
So when they poke their heads out into the real world, they become shocked that regular people don't think the same way.
So no london isn't an English city, its a global city.
Englishness is being pushed out, like the celts were by the saxons.
I'll finish by asking just how diversity is our strength? As the mayor of said city said once after a terror attack.
Sorry TS, but I don’t really understand your point. Are you saying that people should be a specific colour, creed or religion to be English? I have friends in South London who are Asian Muslims and born in London. They absolutely class themselves as English. I have a black friend who’s a Buddhist and born in East London. Do they make London less English?
I didn't say anything of the sort
I asked why London isn’t English anymore and you replied
“Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds and religions “ which seems to suggest that we should only have one of each in London for it to be English.
Herbert, to lighten the thread up a bit, because it's getting too toxic for me, when you can't get to the Rovers games, do you watch games in London?
Whenever I've had Rovers away days in London, I've always enjoyed the atmosphere of those grounds. My favourite London ground for location and atmosphere was Craven Cottage.
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Tommy
You'll recall earlier in this thread I noted that there was a large influx of Irish Catholic economic migrants into this region 150 years ago.
The Catholic Church still discriminates against homosexuals.
Did that influx change "our" culture in a negative way?
PS.
I thought we had an interesting discussion going on here, but that remark about Jones is very distasteful.
I don't particularly like him, but implying that he shouldn't care about a slaughter of innocent people because of their supposed "cultural" and religious views is really not worth engaging with.
Distasteful yes. But do you not acknowledge the utter lunacy of Jones as an openly gay man championing Muslim issues?
The Catholic Church example is a poor one. There is no comparison between Catholic immigrants and Muslim ideology. The former were themselves deliberately kept down and persecuted by society. The same cannot be said of more recent Muslim migrants who hold incompatible views.
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Tommy.
Are you doubling down on that Jones line?
Are you REALLY saying it is "utter lunacy" for a gay man to campaign about the massacre of Palestinian civilians?
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I'm fascinated about who these loony keft folk are in here who condemn Til Death Us Do Part for being racist.
Stewart Lee. A 21st-century 'comedian' who makes a living out of acting the racist bigot and making the Loony Left laugh. The same Loony Left that condemned comedian Alf Garnett for doing EXACTLY the same in the 60s!
Actually BB, it was the Rabid Right who condemned Alf Garnett, as they failed to see that he was taking the piss out of racists and bigots - showing them up for what they were/still are.
Rubbish. The loony Lefties condemned it, and they STILL do on this forum!
Stupid boy! Point me to ant post by someone you call from the 'Loony Left' on here who condemned it. The whole program was aimed at making the Rapid Right racists and bigots look stupid.
Better not tell him that 'Alf' wasn't really a West Ham fan either - he was lifelong Spurs.
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Next you'll be suggesting muslims can't be gay TC, hmmm
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I'm fascinated about who these loony keft folk are in here who condemn Til Death Us Do Part for being racist.
Stewart Lee. A 21st-century 'comedian' who makes a living out of acting the racist bigot and making the Loony Left laugh. The same Loony Left that condemned comedian Alf Garnett for doing EXACTLY the same in the 60s!
Actually BB, it was the Rabid Right who condemned Alf Garnett, as they failed to see that he was taking the piss out of racists and bigots - showing them up for what they were/still are.
Rubbish. The loony Lefties condemned it, and they STILL do on this forum!
Stupid boy! Point me to ant post by someone you call from the 'Loony Left' on here who condemned it. The whole program was aimed at making the Rapid Right racists and bigots look stupid.
Better not tell him that 'Alf' wasn't really a West Ham fan either - he was lifelong Spurs.
Strictly speaking wilts, Warren Mitchell might have been a Spurs fan but Alf was definitely a Hammer.
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When people begin a sentence with,
"I'm not racist..."
it's so predictable.
What it usually means is that what follows should actually say '...but I'm going to talk and act like one.'
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Walk like a duck,and all that.
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Apparently the entertainment and night time economy is bombing, not surprising with the transport costs the Labour regime in power have imposed on the place and it not being seen as safe as many would like with knife crime and muggins an epidemic.
Plus it isn't really an English city anymore is it? and you go on holiday for a change of entertainment and its cheaper.
Not sure where you’ve got your info from Selby, but as a long time resident of our fair capital I can assure you that public transport down here is light years ahead of the rest of the country. It’s fairly cheap, very convenient and pretty safe.
As River Don points out, a night out down here (in the centre of London anyway) isn’t cheap at all. £7 a pint isn’t unusual. Young ‘uns these days simply can’t afford it very often. Saying that, you’ll struggle to find an empty boozer in the west end on an evening.
About it not being an English city anymore, what makes you say that?
Ignorance.
Ignorance.
Bigotry.
Racism.
They do tend to go hand in hand don't they Pancho.
They do indeed IR.
Selby, or one of his mates, might be along soon to tell us he was just casting his bait in order to catch one of us stupid, unsuspecting, ‘woke’ lefties.
Pancho,please tell me the numbers for tomorrow's Euromillions.
Your last prediction was so correct.
Who would have thought it could've been stretched to 4 pages?
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The amount of people who identify as “British” is not provided in the census data.
However, a 2017 yougov survey showed that “86% of Londoners also expressed attachment to their British identity, even though only 75% hold a British passport”.
https://centreforlondon.org/reader/london-identities/being-a-londoner/?ssp=1&setlang=en-gb&cc=GB&safesearch=moderate#local-area
Between 2024 and 2027, London’s economy is expected to grow faster than the rest of the UK’s.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/04/uk-regional-growth-gap-to-widen-as-london-pulls-further-ahead?ssp=1&setlang=en-gb&cc=GB&safesearch=moderate
Places that rely heavily on tourism such as London, York and Edinburgh also seem to represent British culture to a caricature level. To me they do anyway.
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Next you'll be suggesting muslims can't be gay TC, hmmm
No, I won't Syd. I'm pretty relaxed about people's sexuality to be quite honest.
No Syd, it's the Quran and certain Muslim countries who deem it a sin punishable by death.
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Next you'll be suggesting muslims can't be gay TC, hmmm
No, I won't Syd. I'm pretty relaxed about people's sexuality to be quite honest.
No Syd, it's the Quran and certain Muslim countries who deem it a sin punishable by death.
Excellent, maybe you could explain why Jones shouldn't be championing Muslim issues just because he's gay, what has his sexuality got to do with anything?
''Distasteful yes. But do you not acknowledge the utter lunacy of Jones as an openly gay man championing Muslim issues?''
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Tommy.
Are you doubling down on that Jones line?
Are you REALLY saying it is "utter lunacy" for a gay man to campaign about the massacre of Palestinian civilians?
Oh knock it off with your faux outrage BST. Lunacy is a strong word, fair enough. So i rephrase to just say his actions lack credibility when looked at in the context of a religion that would deny him the right to exist.
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Someone hand that man a spade
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It's really not faux anything Tommy. I'm genuinely astonished that an intelligent person can't see why someone can a) be against a specific religious stance and b) still not want people who may or may not support that stance, to be massacred.
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Next you'll be suggesting muslims can't be gay TC, hmmm
No, I won't Syd. I'm pretty relaxed about people's sexuality to be quite honest.
No Syd, it's the Quran and certain Muslim countries who deem it a sin punishable by death.
Excellent, maybe you could explain why Jones shouldn't be championing Muslim issues just because he's gay, what has his sexuality got to do with anything?
''Distasteful yes. But do you not acknowledge the utter lunacy of Jones as an openly gay man championing Muslim issues?''
Next you'll be suggesting muslims can't be gay TC, hmmm
No, I won't Syd. I'm pretty relaxed about people's sexuality to be quite honest.
No Syd, it's the Quran and certain Muslim countries who deem it a sin punishable by death.
Excellent, maybe you could explain why Jones shouldn't be championing Muslim issues just because he's gay, what has his sexuality got to do with anything?
''Distasteful yes. But do you not acknowledge the utter lunacy of Jones as an openly gay man championing Muslim issues?''
He can champion whatever causes he wants Syd. But it takes a special kind of blinkeredness, not to at least acknowledge the irony of him doing so. Turkeys voting for Christmas etc.
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JCB?
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JCB?
Everyone's favourite d**khead has just woken up it seems.
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JCB?
Everyone's favourite d**khead has just woken up it seems.
I was trying to kind TC, but your ignorance keeps shining through
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The amount of people who identify as “British” is not provided in the census data.
However, a 2017 yougov survey showed that “86% of Londoners also expressed attachment to their British identity, even though only 75% hold a British passport”.
https://centreforlondon.org/reader/london-identities/being-a-londoner/?ssp=1&setlang=en-gb&cc=GB&safesearch=moderate#local-area
Between 2024 and 2027, London’s economy is expected to grow faster than the rest of the UK’s.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/04/uk-regional-growth-gap-to-widen-as-london-pulls-further-ahead?ssp=1&setlang=en-gb&cc=GB&safesearch=moderate
Places that rely heavily on tourism such as London, York and Edinburgh also seem to represent British culture to a caricature level. To me they do anyway.
That’s really interesting nc and kind of echoes what I see. I just cannot understand the claim about London and despite all of the posts on this thread, I’m still none the wiser!
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I’m genuinely interested to know why anyone would claim that London isn’t an English city anymore? What is behind this, specifically? Is it non-white people living here, the number of different languages spoken, maybe different religions? Or could it be the number of foreign cars on the roads, maybe it’s too many Chinese takeaways, or possibly that many folk who do the most ‘menial’ jobs are of foreign descent?
I’m not going to accuse anyone of being racist but I’d like to know, specifically, what it is about London that makes it ‘no longer English’?
Oh, and for the record, I’m sure that every single person of colour that I know and living in London classes themselves as English. They get up and go to work, they like to relax in front of the telly, some of them like a pint, most go to the football (West Ham & Spurs mostly), they want England to win at the cricket (There you go Norman Tebbitt), and they joined in the street parties for the Queens birthday. A couple of them even served in the armed forces too. They just happen to have skin that’s tinted a bit differently to mine.
So, if I need to tell them that their city isn’t English anymore then I’d appreciate a bit of rationale if possible?
Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds, and religions.
If that makes me a racist to Billy and his cohort of lefty bedwetting snowflakes on this forum, then I couldn't care less.
In the real world, talking to sane moderate people is where you find the real consensus.
People like them live in a tiny microcosm, reading the guardian and socialist social media channels, talking to other like minded people on their hard left forums, it just serves to fuel their hard left radical views.
So when they poke their heads out into the real world, they become shocked that regular people don't think the same way.
So no london isn't an English city, its a global city.
Englishness is being pushed out, like the celts were by the saxons.
I'll finish by asking just how diversity is our strength? As the mayor of said city said once after a terror attack.
Sorry TS, but I don’t really understand your point. Are you saying that people should be a specific colour, creed or religion to be English? I have friends in South London who are Asian Muslims and born in London. They absolutely class themselves as English. I have a black friend who’s a Buddhist and born in East London. Do they make London less English?
I didn't say anything of the sort
I asked why London isn’t English anymore and you replied
“Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds and religions “ which seems to suggest that we should only have one of each in London for it to be English.
Herbert, to lighten the thread up a bit, because it's getting too toxic for me, when you can't get to the Rovers games, do you watch games in London?
Whenever I've had Rovers away days in London, I've always enjoyed the atmosphere of those grounds. My favourite London ground for location and atmosphere was Craven Cottage.
I occasionally go to games down here fella, maybe a couple a season but not as many as I once did. I’ll usually go to a West Ham or Spurs game with some mates of mine. I do enjoy it because I can relax and enjoy the game! Back in the day I would regularly go to matches in London and have visited all of the league grounds and a few of the non league ones over the years. I used to enjoy going to Upton Park as it had a wonderful atmosphere. Highbury was pretty good too. I couldn’t get on with Stamford Bridge though as the pitch seemed miles away from the stands. It was also the scariest stadium that I went to as some of their fans were absolutely mad.
Funnily enough, Ive only visited Craven Cottage once and that was for a Milk Cup game in the 80’s when Rovers played there. Malcolm McDonald was their manager at the time. It’s a lovely ground though.
-
The amount of people who identify as “British” is not provided in the census data.
However, a 2017 yougov survey showed that “86% of Londoners also expressed attachment to their British identity, even though only 75% hold a British passport”.
https://centreforlondon.org/reader/london-identities/being-a-londoner/?ssp=1&setlang=en-gb&cc=GB&safesearch=moderate#local-area
Between 2024 and 2027, London’s economy is expected to grow faster than the rest of the UK’s.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/04/uk-regional-growth-gap-to-widen-as-london-pulls-further-ahead?ssp=1&setlang=en-gb&cc=GB&safesearch=moderate
Places that rely heavily on tourism such as London, York and Edinburgh also seem to represent British culture to a caricature level. To me they do anyway.
That’s really interesting nc and kind of echoes what I see. I just cannot understand the claim about London and despite all of the posts on this thread, I’m still none the wiser!
You won't HA, because when all the organic changes that occur through travel, work, immigration, migration, media etc are scraped away there is only one thing left imho.
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So despite 4 pages of ‘ahem’ robust debate, I’m still no clearer why London isn’t an English city anymore nor am I clear what parts of English culture people are unable to adhere to in London.
Maybe some folks on here feel they can’t express their opinions clearly and honestly? Maybe they’re secretly embarrassed by them?
People who are of a different culture, religion or colour to you are not the cause of your problems. They have no power or control whatsoever over you. If you are unhappy with your lot then I’d recommend looking into Parliament for the source of your unhappiness. Or the mirror.
London is a great city. Go and visit it sometime and count how many Union Jacks you see compared to in Donny. You’ll be pleasantly surprised.
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So despite 4 pages of ‘ahem’ robust debate, I’m still no clearer why London isn’t an English city anymore nor am I clear what parts of English culture people are unable to adhere to in London.
Maybe some folks on here feel they can’t express their opinions clearly and honestly? Maybe they’re secretly embarrassed by them?
People who are of a different culture, religion or colour to you are not the cause of your problems. They have no power or control whatsoever over you. If you are unhappy with your lot then I’d recommend looking into Parliament for the source of your unhappiness. Or the mirror.
London is a great city. Go and visit it sometime and count how many Union Jacks you see compared to in Donny. You’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Absolutely. If only people understood that we’d start to move forward as a society. Sadly, the far right and the main stream media fools people into thinking otherwise! And governments aren’t entirely innocent of this methodology either - just listen again to Sunak’s latest big speech.
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So despite 4 pages of ‘ahem’ robust debate, I’m still no clearer why London isn’t an English city anymore nor am I clear what parts of English culture people are unable to adhere to in London.
Maybe some folks on here feel they can’t express their opinions clearly and honestly? Maybe they’re secretly embarrassed by them?
People who are of a different culture, religion or colour to you are not the cause of your problems. They have no power or control whatsoever over you. If you are unhappy with your lot then I’d recommend looking into Parliament for the source of your unhappiness. Or the mirror.
London is a great city. Go and visit it sometime and count how many Union Jacks you see compared to in Donny. You’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Agreed HA, well said.
I'm only an occasional visitor to London nowadays, and always as a 'tourist'. I love going there, it has so much to offer and so much to see and do. I enjoy the multicultural element of London and what that has brought to the city.
I'm enjoying reading the contributions to this debate (well, most of them) so I guess I should be grateful to the OP for starting the thread, and equally grateful to him for not joining in!
I'm not sure how relevant this is, and it's nothing to do specifically with London, but Mrs Pancho told me something I found interesting the other day.
She works in a Nursery, looking after children aged between 2 and 4 years.
The Nursery is obliged by Ofsted to encourage the children to respect and adopt what Ofsted refer to as 'British values'.
These are defined as:
* Democracy
* The Rule of Law
* Individual Liberty
* Mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs
Ofsted judge the Nursery on how well it is achieving this when they carry out audits.
I'm not sure how easy it is to instil these values into a 2-year-old!
In practice, my wife tends to concentrate on what I would call the 'traditional' values of good manners. sharing, not bullying, waiting your turn, being polite and kind to others etc.
But I find it interesting that Ofsted have defined these values, the fact that they specifically call them 'British' values, and that they will judge the Nursery on how successfully they are being promoted to the children. Indeed, Ofsted will audit what action the Nursery will take if anyone is acting to undermine these values.
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Next you'll be suggesting muslims can't be gay TC, hmmm
No, I won't Syd. I'm pretty relaxed about people's sexuality to be quite honest.
No Syd, it's the Quran and certain Muslim countries who deem it a sin punishable by death.
If you're going to apply that logic consistently, I assume you'd think it lunacy for Christian adulterers to promote a Bible that says they should be executed.
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We didn't get very far into the "Define 'our' culture" issue, did we?
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We didn't get very far into the "Define 'our' culture" issue, did we?
It is quite hard to define the prevailing culture because it’s all we know, but it is there. Every country has one.
We like to think of ourselves as polite and courteous with respect for things like queuing and manners for example. I’d say we tend to understate things so as not to look a “show off” and use self-deprecation a lot in humour so as to not seem to be lacking humility.
I guess you could say general western values are democracy, rule of law, individual liberty and tolerance. I’d say we are one of the most tolerant societies in the world. There aren’t many others with such population diversity.
It would be easier to ask the original poster and those supporting his argument how exactly immigrants *don’t* integrate to our culture or embody such values and sensibilities. I think my previous post helps to show that people generally do. I’m also not sure why “white British” was brought up.
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We didn't get very far into the "Define 'our' culture" issue, did we?
It is quite hard to define the prevailing culture because it’s all we know, but it is there. Every country has one.
We like to think of ourselves as polite and courteous with respect for things like queuing and manners for example. I’d say we tend to understate things so as not to look a “show off” and use self-deprecation a lot in humour so as to not seem to be lacking humility.
I guess you could say general western values are democracy, rule of law, individual liberty and tolerance. I’d say we are one of the most tolerant societies in the world. There aren’t many others with such population diversity.
It would be easier to ask the original poster and those supporting his argument how exactly immigrants *don’t* integrate to our culture or embody such values and sensibilities. I think my previous post helps to show that people generally do. I’m also not sure why “white British” was brought up.
When asked why London wasn't English anymore, a poster replied
"Because of the vast and diverse amount of different cultures, colours, creeds, and religions."
I think thats why White British came up in the debate.
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So despite 4 pages of ‘ahem’ robust debate, I’m still no clearer why London isn’t an English city anymore nor am I clear what parts of English culture people are unable to adhere to in London.
Maybe some folks on here feel they can’t express their opinions clearly and honestly? Maybe they’re secretly embarrassed by them?
People who are of a different culture, religion or colour to you are not the cause of your problems. They have no power or control whatsoever over you. If you are unhappy with your lot then I’d recommend looking into Parliament for the source of your unhappiness. Or the mirror.
London is a great city. Go and visit it sometime and count how many Union Jacks you see compared to in Donny. You’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Agreed HA, well said.
I'm only an occasional visitor to London nowadays, and always as a 'tourist'. I love going there, it has so much to offer and so much to see and do. I enjoy the multicultural element of London and what that has brought to the city.
I'm enjoying reading the contributions to this debate (well, most of them) so I guess I should be grateful to the OP for starting the thread, and equally grateful to him for not joining in!
I'm not sure how relevant this is, and it's nothing to do specifically with London, but Mrs Pancho told me something I found interesting the other day.
She works in a Nursery, looking after children aged between 2 and 4 years.
The Nursery is obliged by Ofsted to encourage the children to respect and adopt what Ofsted refer to as 'British values'.
These are defined as:
* Democracy
* The Rule of Law
* Individual Liberty
* Mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs
Ofsted judge the Nursery on how well it is achieving this when they carry out audits.
I'm not sure how easy it is to instil these values into a 2-year-old!
In practice, my wife tends to concentrate on what I would call the 'traditional' values of good manners. sharing, not bullying, waiting your turn, being polite and kind to others etc.
But I find it interesting that Ofsted have defined these values, the fact that they specifically call them 'British' values, and that they will judge the Nursery on how successfully they are being promoted to the children. Indeed, Ofsted will audit what action the Nursery will take if anyone is acting to undermine these values.
Interesting. I share your scepticism as to how those can be instilled and measured in 2 year olds. That said, the values are an interesting choice in so far as their representation of supposed ‘Britishness.’
The first three are arguably quite closely aligned with the stoicism that your EDL types would like to think they uphold and fight for. We must bring our children up to show respect etc. etc. And I’m definitely doing it a disservice by limiting it to cynicism around the EDL, in truth I’m sure we would all like future generations to exude these values.
The last one (“mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs”) is where things become strangely more divisive even though most people would like to be considered as tolerant. Few would be able to construct a meaningful argument as to why it’s not important to instil that across all generations. However it’s the action of respect and tolerance that seems to confuse some and this is the ground on which the culture wars are fought. There’s a very fine line between promoting tolerance vs the extent to which this will get the Talk TV / GB News mob accusing nurseries of being ‘woke.’ And there’s a concept that’s every bit as hard to define as British culture.
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That's good to hear Pancho.
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I remember being really proud of that famous British respect for different faiths and beliefs when we used to get called Fenian bas**rds by the Proddy kids on the way to school.
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I remember being really proud of that famous British respect for different faiths and beliefs when we used to get called Fenian bas**rds by the Proddy kids on the way to school.
I’m surprised they even knew what a Fenian was!
You would have been in the majority in Denaby back then!
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I do think that we as a country are one of the most tolerant and diverse countries in the world.
We shouldn’t let the minority stir up division and give us a cynical sneering attitude to all things “British”. That doesn’t help anyone either and losing touch with our values would lead to social denigration.
Sorry HA I missed your post l, mine was quite similar by accident I’ve only joined in on about page 4 so I’m a bit behind!
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I blame the Huguenots!
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I blame the Huguenots!
Is that Latin for Daily Mail?
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So despite 4 pages of ‘ahem’ robust debate, I’m still no clearer why London isn’t an English city anymore nor am I clear what parts of English culture people are unable to adhere to in London.
Maybe some folks on here feel they can’t express their opinions clearly and honestly? Maybe they’re secretly embarrassed by them?
People who are of a different culture, religion or colour to you are not the cause of your problems. They have no power or control whatsoever over you. If you are unhappy with your lot then I’d recommend looking into Parliament for the source of your unhappiness. Or the mirror.
London is a great city. Go and visit it sometime and count how many Union Jacks you see compared to in Donny. You’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Agreed HA, well said.
I'm only an occasional visitor to London nowadays, and always as a 'tourist'. I love going there, it has so much to offer and so much to see and do. I enjoy the multicultural element of London and what that has brought to the city.
I'm enjoying reading the contributions to this debate (well, most of them) so I guess I should be grateful to the OP for starting the thread, and equally grateful to him for not joining in!
I'm not sure how relevant this is, and it's nothing to do specifically with London, but Mrs Pancho told me something I found interesting the other day.
She works in a Nursery, looking after children aged between 2 and 4 years.
The Nursery is obliged by Ofsted to encourage the children to respect and adopt what Ofsted refer to as 'British values'.
These are defined as:
* Democracy
* The Rule of Law
* Individual Liberty
* Mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs
Ofsted judge the Nursery on how well it is achieving this when they carry out audits.
I'm not sure how easy it is to instil these values into a 2-year-old!
In practice, my wife tends to concentrate on what I would call the 'traditional' values of good manners. sharing, not bullying, waiting your turn, being polite and kind to others etc.
But I find it interesting that Ofsted have defined these values, the fact that they specifically call them 'British' values, and that they will judge the Nursery on how successfully they are being promoted to the children. Indeed, Ofsted will audit what action the Nursery will take if anyone is acting to undermine these values.
Yeah those are exclusively British values because nun o' them dirty foreigners have them.
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I do think that we as a country are one of the most tolerant and diverse countries in the world.
We shouldn’t let the minority stir up division and give us a cynical sneering attitude to all things “British”. That doesn’t help anyone either and losing touch with our values would lead to social denigration.
Sorry HA I missed your post l, mine was quite similar by accident I’ve only joined in on about page 4 so I’m a bit behind!
Yes I agree ncRover - we are one of the most tolerant countries in the world. And that includes people from all faiths, religions and ethnic backgrounds.
Pancho is also correct (although it is a bit more than he said - the booklet we go by is here) about the teaching of British values. They are not taught seperately but included in ALL lesson planning:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a758c9540f0b6397f35f469/SMSC_Guidance_Maintained_Schools.pdf
I am a governor at the most ethnically and religiously diverse primary school in out town and it is a delight to be involved with it and see how the children all learn from one another and get on together.
Unfortunately though not all society is like that and there is a small - but vocal - minority who dont want to get on with people who are different to them and are intolerant if not plain antagonistic to others.
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And there is data to support the above. People from immigrant backgrounds have successfully intigrated in Britain better than most other European counties when judges in a number of different levels:
https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1767836694827462936
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Everyone loves us, and our hotels and the fact we are a soft touch.
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Everyone loves us, and our hotels and the fact we are a soft touch.
I was thinking of dropping by and claiming ₤3000 towards a trip to Africa
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Everyone loves us, and our hotels and the fact we are a soft touch.
I was thinking of dropping by and claiming ₤3000 towards a trip to Africa
I think that’s a fantastic idea,GO FOR IT!
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A lot of other forum users would chip in. Especially if there is no internet access there. ;)
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I’m in.
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A lot of other forum users would chip in. Especially if there is no internet access there. ;)
100%
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Me too !GO FOR IT! Somewhere in Saharan Chad
Get a bit of a Tan Skippy!
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Everyone loves us, and our hotels and the fact we are a soft touch.
I was thinking of dropping by and claiming ₤3000 towards a trip to Africa
May I recommend The Serengeti Syd , I'm sure going on a Walkabout without a guide would be an incredibly uplifting experience .
Don't forget to pack your corked hat .
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Oh dear,this thread has been hijacked into an insult Sydney thread.
It's like Phienix Nights,'Send the Buggers Back'.
No wonder people are prepared to accept incredibly racist comments from a Tory donor when this is the mentality of certain posters.
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Oh dear,this thread has been hijacked into an insult Sydney thread.
It's like Phienix Nights,'Send the Buggers Back'.
No wonder people are prepared to accept incredibly racist comments from a Tory donor when this is the mentality of certain posters.
Who are the people who are prepared to accept the racist comments from the Tory donor? And what's that got to do with comments about Sydney?
Have you not read his posts over the last few years?
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Oh dear,this thread has been hijacked into an insult Sydney thread.
It's like Phienix Nights,'Send the Buggers Back'.
No wonder people are prepared to accept incredibly racist comments from a Tory donor when this is the mentality of certain posters.
Nope, I’ve looked back and can’t find any posts which accept the comments by Hester.
Something else you have made up.
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Maybe not Graham,bit some can't find it in themselves to call him out
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Who have you got in mind?
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Who have you got in mind?
Your dear self to start,then your little clan
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Who have you got in mind?
Your dear self to start,then your little clan
What evidence are you providing that I am a racist person.
Who is my clan.
Who has posted that they accept the Hester comments.
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Who have you got in mind?
Your dear self to start,then your little clan
What evidence are you providing that I am a racist person.
Who is my clan.
Who has posted that they accept the Hester comments.
I never used the 'racist card'.
You did.
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Who have you got in mind?
Your dear self to start,then your little clan
This from a man whose wit is as long as a ‘String of Pearls’?
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Oh dear,this thread has been hijacked into an insult Sydney thread.
It's like Phienix Nights,'Send the Buggers Back'.
No wonder people are prepared to accept incredibly racist comments from a Tory donor when this is the mentality of certain posters.
Who are the people who are prepared to accept the racist comments from the Tory donor? And what's that got to do with comments about Sydney?
Have you not read his posts over the last few years?
Would you like to expand on that Steve.
I guess the tory donor must be correct in grammar as you haven't had much to say about it, nor about London.
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Who have you got in mind?
Your dear self to start,then your little clan
What evidence are you providing that I am a racist person.
Who is my clan.
Who has posted that they accept the Hester comments.
I never used the 'racist card'.
You did.
Errr, yes you did.
No wonder people are prepared to accept incredibly racist comments from a Tory donor when this is the mentality of certain posters.
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That's nothing Hound. Apart from the racist implications, he suggested "I might not have long left". That to me can be construed as a threat.
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That's nothing Hound. Apart from the racist implications, he suggested "I might not have long left". That to me can be construed as a threat.
But it's true bb, we are all on the way out but you choose to die in a ditch for a morally bereft party that you claim not to vote for.
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That's nothing Hound. Apart from the racist implications, he suggested "I might not have long left". That to me can be construed as a threat.
I thought similarly BB.
Is it different to suggesting someone should be shot?
A bit worrying really.
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Yes, I wonder if any Mods have seen his comments.
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Yes, I wonder if any Mods have seen his comments.
The mods did remove selby's comment after a complaint was put in
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Did you call the Mods Racist for not doing so?
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That's nothing Hound. Apart from the racist implications, he suggested "I might not have long left". That to me can be construed as a threat.
But it's true bb, we are all on the way out but you choose to die in a ditch for a morally bereft party that you claim not to vote for.
Has Iberian Red told you you "might not have long left?"
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Did you call the Mods Racist for not doing so?
Is it racists to call out comments for being double dutch?
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Yes, I wonder if any Mods have seen his comments.
Do you mean Iberians post?
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Apologies, I read it as The mods didn't remove the comment after a complaint was put in.
Has Iberian Red told you you "might not have long left?"
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Yes, I wonder if any Mods have seen his comments.
Do you mean Iberians post?
Yes.
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Apologies, I read it as The mods didn't remove the comment after a complaint was put in.
Has Iberian Red told you you "might not have long left?"
It's obviously past your bedtime, sweet dreams bb
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I answer questions, Sydnaye. When are you going to start doing so?
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That's nothing Hound. Apart from the racist implications, he suggested "I might not have long left". That to me can be construed as a threat.
Ha
Ha
Ha
Ha.
No,just saying your salad days have passed you by.
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That's nothing Hound. Apart from the racist implications, he suggested "I might not have long left". That to me can be construed as a threat.
Ha
Ha
Ha
Ha.
No,just saying your salad days have passed you by.
Being fattest now, are we?
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That's nothing Hound. Apart from the racist implications, he suggested "I might not have long left". That to me can be construed as a threat.
Ha
Ha
Ha
Ha.
No,just saying your salad days have passed you by.
Being fattest now, are we?
Jowlest.
You really shouldn't have skipped the debating classes.
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ST.
Did you sit next to Dorian Grey?
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That's nothing Hound. Apart from the racist implications, he suggested "I might not have long left". That to me can be construed as a threat.
Ha
Ha
Ha
Ha.
No,just saying your salad days have passed you by.
Being fattest now, are we?
There can’t be many subjects left for him to express his phobic views.
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Iberian Red and Syderney our very own Pearly king and Queens!
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Iberian Red is happy to come on here virtue signalling while living in the most racial country in Europe. Push illegal immigrants straight through into other countries back yard, and Brutally put down the Catalan movement when the rest of the EU just closed their eyes.
No cries of crimes against humanity, no going to court in the Hague, and the ECJ just closed ranks, while the police went on a craze of beating everyone in sight up.
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Iberian Red is happy to come on here virtue signalling while living in the most racial country in Europe. Push illegal immigrants straight through into other countries back yard, and Brutally put down the Catalan movement when the rest of the EU just closed their eyes.
No cries of crimes against humanity, no going to court in the Hague, and the ECJ just closed ranks, while the police went on a craze of beating everyone in sight up.
looks like selby has outed you as Pedro SÁNCHEZ Pérez-Castejón, IR
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Whilst working in the big smoke yesterday, I discussed this topic with a few people I met and shared some of the opinions expressed.
Predictably, there was little in the way of agreement with it.
Everyone was more than a little surprised to hear that their city isn't English anymore.
"Are these people completely ignorant?" was probably the most restrained comment. There were much, much more robust views expressed.
In one shift I spent time with lads from Poland in the yard, a bloke from Somalia and a Hindu lady in their offices, an Irish fella doing the delivery, Asian ladies at the community cafe a neighbour originally from Antigua and no end of cheeky, chirpy Cockneys.
London is a wonderful place.
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Yep Herbert, Polish is the second most talked foreign language in Britain with Rumanian second and due to films bad English language are the words most commonly recognised by foreigners.
Guess the places you frequent back the survey up, and what lots in the rest of the country think goes unnoticed.
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Yep Herbert, Polish is the second most talked foreign language in Britain with Rumanian second and due to films bad English language are the words most commonly recognised by foreigners.
Guess the places you frequent back the survey up, and what lots in the rest of the country think goes unnoticed.
I’ve read that first paragraph about 10 times and I’m still none the wiser. If bad English language is commonly recognised by foreigners then there’s little wonder based on this evidence!
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It's a bad comedy script
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Johnathan, I will go slow for you then, in a survey talked about on the Radio this last Monday Polish was the most common foreign language used on these shores with half a million recognising it as their first language to be used, Romanian was the second most commonly talked foreign language in Britain.
F**K, Mother F***er, Ausie B*****d etc were the most recognised English words by non English speaking foreigners.
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Johnathan, I will go slow for you then, in a survey talked about on the Radio this last Monday Polish was the most common foreign language used on these shores with half a million recognising it as their first language to be used, Romanian was the second most commonly talked foreign language in Britain.
F**K, Mother F***er, Ausie B*****d etc were the most recognised English words by non English speaking foreigners.
that's exciting, it means britain is catching up with europe where so many are multilingual.
I was in poland last year and every second person could speak reasonable to very good english.
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What the point you’re trying to make Selby? There has to be a language that is the second most common. A lot of my Polish patients have excellent English too.
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I am not trying to make any point, just repeating the stats given on the radio, that Polish and Rumanian are the most common languages spoken after English in Britain, and the words most recognised with their meaning by non English speakers.
Personally if two Polish lads or lasses were in a room together I would expect them to converse in their own language, it would be just natural.
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Any chance you could treat those with Tourette's Syndrome on the forum nc?
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Funny you should say that Selby, my lovely Chiro is Danish as is her husband I asked her when they are at home do they speak Danish, of course not was her answer we speak English
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
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Johnathan, I will go slow for you then, in a survey talked about on the Radio this last Monday Polish was the most common foreign language used on these shores with half a million recognising it as their first language to be used, Romanian was the second most commonly talked foreign language in Britain.
F**K, Mother F***er, Ausie B*****d etc were the most recognised English words by non English speaking foreigners.
What about all them bloody Asians who haven't assimilated?
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
-
Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Reminds me of when I had a European role so decided to learn conversational French even though all the French guys I dealt with spoke excellent English. Enrolled for an evening course at Ridgewood school. It was amazing how few people so much as tried to pronounce words with the sort of sounds the French use, even though the tutor encouraged them to try the majority just couldn't drop their Yorkshire accents. With words like Bonjour being pronounced bon-jew-er with no effort to try in spite of encouragement by the tutor it didn't take long for people to start dropping out and week by week there were less people until the tutor gave up and cancelled the course!
-
Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Italian is a beautiful sounding language. I've just researched and found that after English, the most spoken languages in the world are Mandarin, Hindi, French, and Spanish.
I love languages. My only regret is that I got my TEFL qualification too late in life to use it.
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Offensive to Italians, You better than most should know this. Something done similar about any ethnic language would of had some on here up in arms.
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I will leave that for you to decide Billy and the Bloody part you must be used to saying.
I have got on fine with the ones I have played sport with, worked with, and employed, and have never thought of them as Bloody Asians as you describe them.
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
[/quote
I speak German with a Niedersasche accent, so pass for a German when in Deutcheland
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All countries should learn to speak English. Not doing so is just plain lazy.
-
Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Italian is a beautiful sounding language. I've just researched and found that after English, the most spoken languages in the world are Mandarin, Hindi, French, and Spanish.
I love languages. My only regret is that I got my TEFL qualification too late in life to use it.
That's a pity SS.
A TEFL or TESOL qualification is an opportunity to work nearly anywhere in the world,this some of the more interesting countries won't give visas to over 40s.
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Iberian Red is happy to come on here virtue signalling while living in the most racial country in Europe. Push illegal immigrants straight through into other countries back yard, and Brutally put down the Catalan movement when the rest of the EU just closed their eyes.
No cries of crimes against humanity, no going to court in the Hague, and the ECJ just closed ranks, while the police went on a craze of beating everyone in sight up.
There's more than one country on the peninsula.
From your description(wildly inaccurate),it sounds like the place for you!
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Offensive to Italians, You better than most should know this. Something done similar about any ethnic language would of had some on here up in arms.
God help us. Does EVERY exchange have to end up like this.
It is not in any way whatsoever offensive. There is a reason why how their language spoken by them sounds different to their language spoken with an English lilt, exactly as NNK reflected on. Italian DOES have a vowel at the end of pretty much every word, and that gives the spoken language a certain rhythm. It's precisely why an Italian who is not very experienced at speaking English tends to add a vowel-a sound-a at the end of every word. Because it is unnatural for them to end words with a hard consonant. There's nothing offensive about noting that. It is a fact.
Equally, it is difficult for us native English speakers to get used to a language that doesn't have words ending in hard consonants. There's a tendency for us to put the emphasis in the wrong place. In particular, they almost never put the emphasis on the final vowel, and when we do, that sounds just like a foreigner speaking Italian badly. When I started consciously trying to mimic the way Italians pronounce the final vowel, everything else suddenly became easy. Like I automatically knew where the emphasis should go.
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Tell you the bit I've never got about foreigners.
Every time we play a foreign team in the World Cup or Euros, the ref is a foreigner too.
No wonder we never win.
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It's a case of faux outrage#
Just like me being accused of phobias when I was clearly saying a certain poster was a man that enjoyed satisfying himself.
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It's a case of faux outrage#
Just like me being accused of phobias when I was clearly saying a certain poster was a man that enjoyed satisfying himself.
on one of your other posts you mentioned 12" "things" I just hope reference to that and your above "satisfying " post size-wise are mutually exclusive
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Italian is a beautiful sounding language. I've just researched and found that after English, the most spoken languages in the world are Mandarin, Hindi, French, and Spanish.
I love languages. My only regret is that I got my TEFL qualification too late in life to use it.
That's a pity SS.
A TEFL or TESOL qualification is an opportunity to work nearly anywhere in the world,this some of the more interesting countries won't give visas to over 40s.
That won't worry SS, he's not far off getting his birthday card from the King, so getting a visa isn't on his bucket list
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Italian is a beautiful sounding language. I've just researched and found that after English, the most spoken languages in the world are Mandarin, Hindi, French, and Spanish.
I love languages. My only regret is that I got my TEFL qualification too late in life to use it.
That's a pity SS.
A TEFL or TESOL qualification is an opportunity to work nearly anywhere in the world,this some of the more interesting countries won't give visas to over 40s.
That won't worry SS, he's not far off getting his birthday card from the King, so getting a visa isn't on his bucket list
Cheeky bugger. That's it, Raven, you're definitely not in the team on Sunday.
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Offensive to Italians, You better than most should know this. Something done similar about any ethnic language would of had some on here up in arms.
God help us. Does EVERY exchange have to end up like this.
It is not in any way whatsoever offensive. There is a reason why how their language spoken by them sounds different to their language spoken with an English lilt, exactly as NNK reflected on. Italian DOES have a vowel at the end of pretty much every word, and that gives the spoken language a certain rhythm. It's precisely why an Italian who is not very experienced at speaking English tends to add a vowel-a sound-a at the end of every word. Because it is unnatural for them to end words with a hard consonant. There's nothing offensive about noting that. It is a fact.
Equally, it is difficult for us native English speakers to get used to a language that doesn't have words ending in hard consonants. There's a tendency for us to put the emphasis in the wrong place. In particular, they almost never put the emphasis on the final vowel, and when we do, that sounds just like a foreigner speaking Italian badly. When I started consciously trying to mimic the way Italians pronounce the final vowel, everything else suddenly became easy. Like I automatically knew where the emphasis should go.
BST, the infant/junior school i went to was adjacent to the local C of E school across the road, consequently i had to walk to school most days and have to fight every other day the local C of E kids because they were mimicking and harassing me with those definitions using the same words, now that was to me and kids like me deeply offensive regardless what you think. Language appropriation like that in this day and age seems to be taken very seriously and its understandable when people are offended.
I am aware you were using this in a different context but nevertheless it still makes me think of the crap that you had to put up with because your background happens to be slightly different to the majority.
I thought you may have understood this a bit better than others because of your Mrs background and also your own, but maybe not eh.
-
Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Italian is a beautiful sounding language. I've just researched and found that after English, the most spoken languages in the world are Mandarin, Hindi, French, and Spanish.
I love languages. My only regret is that I got my TEFL qualification too late in life to use it.
That's a pity SS.
A TEFL or TESOL qualification is an opportunity to work nearly anywhere in the world,this some of the more interesting countries won't give visas to over 40s.
That won't worry SS, he's not far off getting his birthday card from the King, so getting a visa isn't on his bucket list
Cheeky bugger. That's it, Raven, you're definitely not in the team on Sunday.
Reminds me of Charlie Wagstaffe saying that.... you'll never play for this team again!
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Offensive to Italians, You better than most should know this. Something done similar about any ethnic language would of had some on here up in arms.
God help us. Does EVERY exchange have to end up like this.
It is not in any way whatsoever offensive. There is a reason why how their language spoken by them sounds different to their language spoken with an English lilt, exactly as NNK reflected on. Italian DOES have a vowel at the end of pretty much every word, and that gives the spoken language a certain rhythm. It's precisely why an Italian who is not very experienced at speaking English tends to add a vowel-a sound-a at the end of every word. Because it is unnatural for them to end words with a hard consonant. There's nothing offensive about noting that. It is a fact.
Equally, it is difficult for us native English speakers to get used to a language that doesn't have words ending in hard consonants. There's a tendency for us to put the emphasis in the wrong place. In particular, they almost never put the emphasis on the final vowel, and when we do, that sounds just like a foreigner speaking Italian badly. When I started consciously trying to mimic the way Italians pronounce the final vowel, everything else suddenly became easy. Like I automatically knew where the emphasis should go.
BST, the infant/junior school i went to was adjacent to the local C of E school across the road, consequently i had to walk to school most days and have to fight every other day the local C of E kids because they were mimicking and harassing me with those definitions using the same words, now that was to me and kids like me deeply offensive regardless what you think. Language appropriation like that in this day and age seems to be taken very seriously and its understandable when people are offended.
I am aware you were using this in a different context but nevertheless it still makes me think of the crap that you had to put up with because your background happens to be slightly different to the majority.
I thought you may have understood this a bit better than others because of your Mrs background and also your own, but maybe not eh.
If you read wilts principles that kids are taught from age of 2 about respect etc and all of our parents had been taught the same then there would be more respect about where people live and how they manage their lives. And of course one would learn that not all parents had parents that were well educated and able to invest this in their kids, either to enable them to strike out and get better jobs and improve lives and so on.
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
Learning to speak another language is an adventure. It broadens your mind. I've got passable Italian, taught to me by my half-Italian wife. It's a beautiful language. Elegant, poetic, expressive and surprisingly easy to learn. I was hopeless at speaking until one day I decided-a to-a ham uppada de style-a. It was astonishing from that moment how easy it was to get the pronunciation and the genders and the verb conjugations right. Never looked back.
Offensive to Italians, You better than most should know this. Something done similar about any ethnic language would of had some on here up in arms.
God help us. Does EVERY exchange have to end up like this.
It is not in any way whatsoever offensive. There is a reason why how their language spoken by them sounds different to their language spoken with an English lilt, exactly as NNK reflected on. Italian DOES have a vowel at the end of pretty much every word, and that gives the spoken language a certain rhythm. It's precisely why an Italian who is not very experienced at speaking English tends to add a vowel-a sound-a at the end of every word. Because it is unnatural for them to end words with a hard consonant. There's nothing offensive about noting that. It is a fact.
Equally, it is difficult for us native English speakers to get used to a language that doesn't have words ending in hard consonants. There's a tendency for us to put the emphasis in the wrong place. In particular, they almost never put the emphasis on the final vowel, and when we do, that sounds just like a foreigner speaking Italian badly. When I started consciously trying to mimic the way Italians pronounce the final vowel, everything else suddenly became easy. Like I automatically knew where the emphasis should go.
BST, the infant/junior school i went to was adjacent to the local C of E school across the road, consequently i had to walk to school most days and have to fight every other day the local C of E kids because they were mimicking and harassing me with those definitions using the same words, now that was to me and kids like me deeply offensive regardless what you think. Language appropriation like that in this day and age seems to be taken very seriously and its understandable when people are offended.
I am aware you were using this in a different context but nevertheless it still makes me think of the crap that you had to put up with because your background happens to be slightly different to the majority.
I thought you may have understood this a bit better than others because of your Mrs background and also your own, but maybe not eh.
1) I wasn't doing it to harass anyone.
2) I absolutely wasn't speaking English in that way.
3) I did it for the single reason that it helped improve my Italian.
I'm genuinely sorry that you were given grief by d**khead kids, presumably with d**khead parents. But that has zero bearing on what I was talking about.
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
[/quote
I speak German with a Niedersasche accent, so pass for a German when in Deutcheland
I worked in Bavaria most of the time I was in Germany so the bit of German I picked up was with a Bavarian accent. When I went up to visit friends in the north they all burst out laughing as there it's judged the equivalent of a West Country yokel.
Similar when I learnt Dutch from living in Amsterdam and had a Amsterdam. Apparently that's like being a cockney.
Weird how this thread has taken a turn from this mind.
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Can anyone on here speak another language? I wish I could.
We’re lucky English is so universal though.
[/quote
I speak German with a Niedersasche accent, so pass for a German when in Deutcheland
I worked in Bavaria most of the time I was in Germany so the bit of German I picked up was with a Bavarian accent. When I went up to visit friends in the north they all burst out laughing as there it's judged the equivalent of a West Country yokel.
Similar when I learnt Dutch from living in Amsterdam and had a Amsterdam. Apparently that's like being a cockney.
Weird how this thread has taken a turn from this mind.
Yes when I visited the Harz Mountains they thought I was a Toff and even referred to it as.’the Queens German.
Back in the 70’s we could get East German Telly and their tv presenters had a very different accent to my local area accent!
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And there is similar merde in France .............
''Aya Nakamura, the pop superstar at the centre of a Paris Olympic racism storm
Outrage from the far right over rumours of a performance at the opening ceremony has exposed deep divisions in France .....
....... ''Rachida Dati, the culture minister, warned against “pure racism”, and Lilian Thuram the former French footballer said: “When people say Aya Nakamura can’t represent France, what criteria do they base it on? I know the criteria, because when I was a footballer, some also said this isn’t the French team because there are too many Blacks.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/16/aya-nakamura-the-pop-superstar-at-the-centre-of-a-paris-olympic-racism-storm
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Has anyone seen the Conservative’s video on London? You’d think it was turning in to Mordor going by this.
https://x.com/conservatives/status/1772321715713982730?s=46
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What is disconcerting is the response from the Guardian which is below, The Tories slashed£3.4 Billion from National Policing budgets and the Guardian article shows most of the country has higher crime rates than London..Shame shame shame!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/26/fact-check-has-sadiq-khan-really-overseen-a-surge-in-london