No Brexit Extension

[MachoMadness]

Sounds to me like he's getting set up to cave to the EU's demands (that we've already agreed to anyway) at the last minute, then pretend he hasn't and tout it as some big victory.

[selby]

  What if it is the other way around Macho?

[IDM]

Hardly..  the UK chose to leave the EU but if we want to retain some ties we need to accommodate how they want to do that, not something we could dictate..

Mind you, it’s been clear Johnson and his cronies wanted no deal from day one..

Why can’t they all just f**k right off.?

[MachoMadness]

  What if it is the other way around Macho?

It isn't. He's already done it once, pretending his deal didn't put in a border down the Irish sea when it plainly did.

The EU haven't really moved from their red lines this whole time. We're going all in with a terrible hand and the worst poker face ever.

[selby]

It reminds me of a Roy Orbison song, It's Over

[drfchound]

How on earth is anyone supposed to negotiate with us over the Leave terms.

Johnson loudly announced last month that 15 Oct was the absolute deadline for finalising the terms.

Now that date has come without a deal.

And the talks just carry on as normal next week.

How is anyone supposed to pay any credence to anything he says?

Maybe the EU is just the EFL in disguise.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh hang on. Now he's changed his mind. The talks are over.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54566897

A last desperate gamble to try to bluff the EU? Or are we REALLY going to leave with No Deal and his plan is to accept the carnage that will produce and just blame the EU?

Ending well this, isn't it? Hands up how many people actually voted for it to come to this. When every time anyone on the Remain side said it WOULD come to this, we were told it was just Project Fear and the EU would bend over backwards to give us whatever deal we wanted.

Just a reminder. The best Treasury estimate is that if we leave with No Deal, we'll lose 8-10% of GDP. Which would be equivalent to a Great Depression-type slump. On top of COVID.

Anyone? Explanations?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh, hang on.

That article that quotes Johnson as saying the talks are "over". A bit further down, it says Barnier is coming to London for talks next week.

OK. NOW it becomes clear.

There's a deal coming. It will mean us caving in to all the EU central demands. But there'll be a bit of icing on top to make it look a bit better for us. And Johnson will crow about that in his Poundshop Churchill style and say he went eyeball to eyeball with the EU and they blinked, because they knew he really would leave with No Deal if they didn't buckle.

He's demanding a Canada-style deal [1].
We won't get a Canada style deal.
He'll crow that we've got a Canada-style deal.

Exactly the same thing as happened with the WA negotiations.

He insists we WON'T accept a border in the Irish Sea.
He signs a deal that commits us to a border in the Irish Sea.
He insists the deal he's signed means there won't be a border in the Irish Sea.

Pound to a pinch of dogshite that is what happens over the next month. Last time, he was lauded as a conquering hero for such genius negotiating skills. I wonder if folk will be any more awake this time?

[1] Course, back in 2016, no one ever dreamed of saying a Canada-style deal would be a good outcome. But hey-ho. Everyone who voted Leave knew exactly what they were voting for and anyone who suggests folk were bullshitted is an condescending Enemy of Democracy.

[selby]

   Who will be your new team lads, Hertha, Juventus, Real, or good old PSG, when you move to the promised land and leave the sinking ship?

[Janso]

You're a crap WUM, selby.

[Ldr]

   Who will be your new team lads, Hertha, Juventus, Real, or good old PSG, when you move to the promised land and leave the sinking ship?

Pmsl 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[albie]

Very big increases in prices to come, according to business interests;
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-business-reaction-factbox/factbox-industry-reaction-to-uk-pm-johnsons-brexit-statement-idUKKBN2711UW

On top of the Covid impact, this is the worst combination of events as an economic disrupter.

[selby]

I wonder if the Eu are watching the membership fee billions  swimming away with the fish?

[DonnyOsmond]

Oh, hang on.

That article that quotes Johnson as saying the talks are "over". A bit further down, it says Barnier is coming to London for talks next week.

OK. NOW it becomes clear.

There's a deal coming. It will mean us caving in to all the EU central demands. But there'll be a bit of icing on top to make it look a bit better for us. And Johnson will crow about that in his Poundshop Churchill style and say he went eyeball to eyeball with the EU and they blinked, because they knew he really would leave with No Deal if they didn't buckle.

He's demanding a Canada-style deal [1].
We won't get a Canada style deal.
He'll crow that we've got a Canada-style deal.

Exactly the same thing as happened with the WA negotiations.

He insists we WON'T accept a border in the Irish Sea.
He signs a deal that commits us to a border in the Irish Sea.
He insists the deal he's signed means there won't be a border in the Irish Sea.

Pound to a pinch of dogshite that is what happens over the next month. Last time, he was lauded as a conquering hero for such genius negotiating skills. I wonder if folk will be any more awake this time?

[1] Course, back in 2016, no one ever dreamed of saying a Canada-style deal would be a good outcome. But hey-ho. Everyone who voted Leave knew exactly what they were voting for and anyone who suggests folk were bullshitted is an condescending Enemy of Democracy.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1317144159271124997?s=19

[BillyStubbsTears]

DO.

Ok. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we ARE in the "If you don't give what we want, we're going to kneecap ourselves and you'll get covered in blood and bone!" mode after all.

This feels like watching someone else's slow motion car crash. Then suddenly realising with a horrific knot in my stomach that it's my kids' futures in the f**king car.

I cannot believe even this bunch of amoral chancers are REALLY going to take us out with no deal.

[Janso]

It's not really that much of a stretch of the imagination tbh.

[wilts rover]

Just been checking the news. Anyone know when the German car industry are going to turn up beacuse I can't find anything about it? Apparently they need us more than we need them?

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's not really that much of a stretch of the imagination tbh.

I dunno. I assume most people act rationally when you consider what their drivers are.

In this case, I just don't get it. I cannot see what there is for Johnson to gain by driving us into the sort of economic disaster that No Deal would be. Yes it would be red meat to the people who put blue passports in front of things like jobs and getting food into the country. But there aren't actually THAT many of them. Certainly not enough to win you the next election if we are tipped into the sort of economic catastrophe that No Deal on top of COVID would bring.

I'm certain there are some proper spivs on the right of the Tory party whose businesses stand to benefit from No Deal. The likes of Rees-Mogg for example. But I just don't see how this is in Johnson's interests.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Just perhaps BST he actually does want a deal and is trying to negotiate hard.

Of course they may already know behind the scenes what they're going to agree to but politics being politics they have to show their public persona differently.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's exactly what I said earlier BFYP.

I still think this is a smokescreen to hide the fact that we are lining up a shit deal.

[drfchound]

Haven’t people been continuously saying that any deal is better than no deal.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes Hound. Just like a smack round the head is better than a kick in the balls. But you wouldn't choose either if it was up to you.

[selby]

  Have you got the tricolour on the flag pole Billy ?

[IDM]

Grow up..

[selby]

  I have a feeling that some posters on here would have much prefered  Bojo to roll over today and are disappointed they can't ridicule him more than usual.
 Anybody heard from Stabber today, or is he on another trip to Brussels for a meeting with his old mates and a chin wag what to do next to keep us in the ponzi scheme.

[Colemans Left Hook]

  What I do know is this takes our supposed breaking of EU laws on treaties to 37 pending cases, which puts us at the moment in tenth place behind 9 other EU members the worst offenders being Spain France Italy and Germany,
  Perhaps Syderney you would like to go over and spend some time trying to sort your cheating mates out.
 

Yes i heard that line from  a reputable source  dont ask where  - I came on here to post something else

but with a quick bit of googling came across this for your perusal

https://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/scoreboard/performance_by_governance_tool/infringements/index_en.htm


now for the bit i wanted to post i saw an   FT headline on the bbc tomorrows papers basically Merkel was telling the EU to get real in their negotiations

here is the

"Merkel calls for realism from EU in Brexit talks"

""Angela Merkel has warned the European Union that it must be more realistic in accepting Britain’s negotiating position in fishing and trade talks ahead of tomorrow’s critical summit of leaders.

The German chancellor said Brussels had to accept that any deal must be in the interests of the UK and the EU. Her comments came as British sources blamed EU divisions and sabre-rattling from France for the missing of a deadline to find agreement this week.

Mrs Merkel, who holds the EU presidency, told a meeting of European mayors that a deal was “particularly urgent from the Irish perspective”.

“We are going to continue to stand together in these withdrawal talks,” she said. “But we also have to take into account the reality: an agreement


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merkel-calls-for-realism-from-eu-in-brexit-talks-3lqhhnrw3

now look at this from 2016


Angela Merkel tells EU there is 'no need to be nasty' to Britainwww.telegraph.co.uk › News
25 Jun 2016 — Angela Merkel has insisted there is "no need to be nasty" to Britain over ... EU officials said there was no real problem if it took a few months to ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/angela-merkel-tells-eu-there-is-no-need-to-be-nasty-to-britain/


methinx Merkel forsaw what would happen ??

[SydneyRover]

Well Merkel is one of the smartest cookies in the jar

[idler]

Just think where we could be if Boris was even half as smart.🤔

[SydneyRover]

Or even smart in any way the dangerous bit is that he thinks he's smart Idler?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

For the record, MANY of us were predicting in 2016 that the real purpose of Brexit was for Johnson to lead a cult taking over the Tory party.

I know it must hurt to know that you have been part of that process. But people need to learn when to grit their teeth and vote with their heads.

I voted for Blair with gritted teeth myself, because, while I hated many of his stances, it was better to have him than the shambles that the Tory party was in the late 90s.

In 2005, I voted against Labour because I wanted to send a message that Blair had to go after Iraq. But I knew that I was doing it in a safe Labour seat. Would I have done it in a marginal if there had been a chance of Labour losing and Michael Howard becoming PM? Never in a million years.

Similarly, I've campaigned and voted for Corbyn's Labour party despite not supporting many of his stances. Because the alternative was the barely credible shit show we now have.

You have two choices when you vote. You can naively vote for what you think are high principles that you believe in. Or you can grit your teeth and think, "What real-world outcome is the least bad one and how does my vote make that happen."

Unfortunately, you and a couple of million others on the Left did the former in 2016 and didn't think of the latter. And now we are all paying the penalty.