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Where do you draw the line thou Dutch,if it is a vote remain on the 2nd vote are the vote leave then entitled to a final vote?
Switzerland have regular referendums, even sometimes having ones to undo what they did if they realise they've f**ked up. To the people who say that a second vote would be undemocratic - is Switzerland an undemocratic nation?
Quote from: wilts rover on July 15, 2018, 01:26:57 pmQuote from: Padge_DRFC on July 15, 2018, 11:25:16 amwhat are remainers thoughts on the EU holding us back from trade deals with the rest of the world?It's clearly b*llocks as 55% of our trade is already done with the rest of the world! It clearly also doesn't hold other EU countries back as Germany does a huge amount of trade with China for instance. Last year their trade with China was 186 billion euros against our 60 billion euros.It only took a couple of minutes to find these below, knock yourself out and find some articles that say Britain wouod be better off outside the EU.
Quote from: Padge_DRFC on July 15, 2018, 11:25:16 amwhat are remainers thoughts on the EU holding us back from trade deals with the rest of the world?It's clearly b*llocks as 55% of our trade is already done with the rest of the world! It clearly also doesn't hold other EU countries back as Germany does a huge amount of trade with China for instance. Last year their trade with China was 186 billion euros against our 60 billion euros.
what are remainers thoughts on the EU holding us back from trade deals with the rest of the world?
What would happen if people voted leave with no deal would you accept that thou or demand a 3rd referendum?
Ok mate sorry I must misunderstood, so you would accept it if the public voted to leave with a no deal? Out of interest why would you when you have not the 1st one?
Quote from: SydneyRover on July 16, 2018, 01:19:23 amQuote from: wilts rover on July 15, 2018, 01:26:57 pmQuote from: Padge_DRFC on July 15, 2018, 11:25:16 amwhat are remainers thoughts on the EU holding us back from trade deals with the rest of the world?It's clearly b*llocks as 55% of our trade is already done with the rest of the world! It clearly also doesn't hold other EU countries back as Germany does a huge amount of trade with China for instance. Last year their trade with China was 186 billion euros against our 60 billion euros.It only took a couple of minutes to find these below, knock yourself out and find some articles that say Britain wouod be better off outside the EU.Sydney, if I think that the statement the EU holding us back from trade deals with the rest of the world is b*llocks, why would I think Britain is better off outside the EU?The EU clearly isn't holding us back from trading with the rest of the world, as we already trade more with the rest of the world than the we do with the EU as a member of the EU - nor does being in the EU hold any other EU country back from trading with the rest of the world, as my example of Germany's trade with China shows.https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-economy-trade/china-remains-germanys-biggest-trading-partner-in-2017-idUSKCN1G5213
Quote from: wilts rover on July 16, 2018, 04:34:23 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on July 16, 2018, 01:19:23 amQuote from: wilts rover on July 15, 2018, 01:26:57 pmQuote from: Padge_DRFC on July 15, 2018, 11:25:16 amwhat are remainers thoughts on the EU holding us back from trade deals with the rest of the world?It's clearly b*llocks as 55% of our trade is already done with the rest of the world! It clearly also doesn't hold other EU countries back as Germany does a huge amount of trade with China for instance. Last year their trade with China was 186 billion euros against our 60 billion euros.It only took a couple of minutes to find these below, knock yourself out and find some articles that say Britain wouod be better off outside the EU.Sydney, if I think that the statement the EU holding us back from trade deals with the rest of the world is b*llocks, why would I think Britain is better off outside the EU?The EU clearly isn't holding us back from trading with the rest of the world, as we already trade more with the rest of the world than the we do with the EU as a member of the EU - nor does being in the EU hold any other EU country back from trading with the rest of the world, as my example of Germany's trade with China shows.https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-economy-trade/china-remains-germanys-biggest-trading-partner-in-2017-idUSKCN1G5213Wilts, you're confusing 'trading with' with 'having a trade deal with'. They aren't the same thing.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on July 16, 2018, 06:24:02 pmQuote from: wilts rover on July 16, 2018, 04:34:23 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on July 16, 2018, 01:19:23 amQuote from: wilts rover on July 15, 2018, 01:26:57 pmQuote from: Padge_DRFC on July 15, 2018, 11:25:16 amwhat are remainers thoughts on the EU holding us back from trade deals with the rest of the world?It's clearly b*llocks as 55% of our trade is already done with the rest of the world! It clearly also doesn't hold other EU countries back as Germany does a huge amount of trade with China for instance. Last year their trade with China was 186 billion euros against our 60 billion euros.It only took a couple of minutes to find these below, knock yourself out and find some articles that say Britain wouod be better off outside the EU.Sydney, if I think that the statement the EU holding us back from trade deals with the rest of the world is b*llocks, why would I think Britain is better off outside the EU?The EU clearly isn't holding us back from trading with the rest of the world, as we already trade more with the rest of the world than the we do with the EU as a member of the EU - nor does being in the EU hold any other EU country back from trading with the rest of the world, as my example of Germany's trade with China shows.https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-economy-trade/china-remains-germanys-biggest-trading-partner-in-2017-idUSKCN1G5213Wilts, you're confusing 'trading with' with 'having a trade deal with'. They aren't the same thing.It's much more your area of expertise than mine Glyn but the deals Germany and China did last week are being called trade deals.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-china/with-raft-of-deals-china-and-germany-swear-to-keep-trade-free-idUSKBN1JZ0VMAs were the deals May came back with in Februaryhttps://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china-britain/may-gets-9-billion-pounds-in-china-deals-xi-promises-to-build-on-golden-era-idUKKBN1FM0G0
Quote from: bpoolrover on July 16, 2018, 12:54:34 pmWhat would happen if people voted leave with no deal would you accept that thou or demand a 3rd referendum?I think this is a really valid question - how many times do we need to re-run a referendum, until will give the answer the government of day wants?I do think that Padge, Blackpool and the other Brexiteers have a reason to be agrieved, they voted Leave, thought they had won a majority and now see it's not going the way they wanted. The reason for that of course is the other point Greening made, that the government doesnt want a hard Brexit, and even if they did it wouldn't get through parliament.I cant see how any further referendum will change that. Unless the party that 'win's the referendum gets to carry it out, there will still be an impasse. There has to be a general election. Each party gets to put their agenda and plan to the public, we all get to vote for the party we think has the best plan. If one part wins a majority so be it, they get to implement that plan. If there is no overall majority (as now) it should be a national coalition.
Agree with bst on the general election there is a fair chance the result would be the same as last time so we would be in the same position, maybe people are right have another referendum but just have walk away or remain and whoever wins just accept the result
Quote from: bpoolrover on July 17, 2018, 02:55:44 amAgree with bst on the general election there is a fair chance the result would be the same as last time so we would be in the same position, maybe people are right have another referendum but just have walk away or remain and whoever wins just accept the result What about those who want a soft Brexit, doesn't their opinion matter?
Also say there was 3 options and 29 percent voted for a hard brexit 31 for a soft brexit and 40 percent for no brexit who would win?
If people still vote to leave knowing what's on the table then you can't argue with it. But at the end of the day, some people voted to Leave thinking that we would automatically withdraw the day after the vote if we voted to go, some thought that we would be guaranteed a Norway model, some thought we'd get our own special deal. People had no idea what they were voting for if they voted to leave. If they know what they're voting for, and still vote to leave as a majority, then you can't argue with it.If people in the future decide they've f**ked up and want to get back in, then you can't really argue with that either, if there's appetite to go back on the decision. But at the moment the whole negotiation process has been a f**king shambles and if we leave with a shit deal or no deal we'll be in the shit.
Yes trade deals. Much lower tariffs or none at all. Making each other’s goods to buy from each other more appealing and paying less for it. Which we cannot do until leaving the EU basically.I’m not going to lie and hide it I also voted so we could control immigration. There I said it and some people darent because of being called a racist. However having said that it’s harder for the Indian doctor to come to the UK than the jobless Frenchman come to the Uk.I see that’s one of May’s latest things she will still give preference to EU citizens over the rest of the world.