Zahawi

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just a quick note Nc, because I know you like to make sure you're getting info from balanced sources.

I assume you know who this Claire Fox is that you're reading from? An ex top brass in the UK Communist Party who went so far to the Left, she disappeared and returned on the far Right as a libertarian populist.

[ncRover]

Just a quick note Nc, because I know you like to make sure you're getting info from balanced sources.

I assume you know who this Claire Fox is that you're reading from? An ex top brass in the UK Communist Party who went so far to the Left, she disappeared and returned on the far Right as a libertarian populist.

What does that have to with that Twitter encounter? I’m highlighting Zahawi’s previous dishonesty

[BillyStubbsTears]

I know. I'm just pointing out that a lot of what you post has origins in far-right sources. I'm not certain you realise that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

For what it's worth, I do of course agree that Zahawi is untrustworthy. But that's a really bad example. It's a theme now being dusted down by far right libertarians in light of the current scandal to try to claim some points for them.

You're doing the work for them.

[ncRover]

I didn’t realise, I just remembered it from the debate at that time. Corbyn was against the passports too, not everything is a binary left v right issue.

But anyway that’s not the topic of discussion and I didn’t have any other examples.

[ravenrover]

It is striking, the absence of comment on this particular matter from certain regular contributors on this forum.

Similar comment on a thread about Labours attitude to women, how odd

[wilts rover]

I wouldn’t believe anything Zahawi says.

https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1349116738454122499?s=46&t=RXbTkX87KGB1dcIq2x20bg

“We have no plans to introduce vaccine passports”
“Can we hold you to that?”
“Yes you can Claire”

Discriminatory and illiberal vaccine passports later introduced whilst he was head of vaccine deployment.

My opinion of Zahawi is quite clear in the posts above - but that's wrong and false.

Vaccine passports were never issued in the UK. Some places of mass entertainment were restricted. Essential services and retail were always open to anyone (rightly or wrongly).

And he explains fully here why he changed his mind:

https://www.zahawi.com/parliament/covid-vaccine-passports

Has Claire Fox changed her mind on the support of IRA bombings btw?

[ncRover]

Yep and this has further eroded my opinion of him.

Has he paid all his outstanding tax and the penalty?

[wilts rover]

Yep and this has further eroded my opinion of him.

Has he paid all his outstanding tax and the penalty?

We all want to know that. He says he has, but given he refuses to publish what it is he owes and owns, we have no idea.

[ncRover]

Yep and this has further eroded my opinion of him.

Has he paid all his outstanding tax and the penalty?

We all want to know that. He says he has, but given he refuses to publish what it is he owes and owns, we have no idea.

Interesting.

Also interesting that yougov have done a poll on Sunak’s seatbelt (yawn) but not Zahawi

[ravenrover]

My guess is Sunak wants this to run, takes the attention away from his and his wifes financial affairs. Wasn't he supposed to publish his own tax details before Christmas?

[SydneyRover]

''Is this the UK's most important fireball?'' or is it the tory party?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-leicestershire-64223820

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The fair bit, it's actually very easy to get in this position on tax because it's quite open to interpretation in a lot of areas.  I've seen very complex tax case tribunals a few times and HMRC are not always correct, so I can see exactly how it happens.  Careless is quite a low level issue really and happens frequently.  These things are highly complex, way more than I ever realised and morr than most will realise.

But I lose the sense of fairness given the guy became chancellor. At that point he could (as many businesses do) pay it first then debate it and he should in my view step down and simply say he made the wrong call.

[SydneyRover]

How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

[ravenrover]

Not forgetting all the legal threats

[BillyStubbsTears]

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's a thing by the way.

HMRC has a maximum fine of 30% for "Carelessness" (read: "Negligence")

But, their own policy is to reduce those fines if the culprit is helpful, including, fessing up voluntarily before HMRC find out and being open and honest in how they deal with the investigation.

Zahawi appears to have received a fine of 30%. (He owed around £3.75m in tax but apparently has paid a total of about £5m to HMRC. The difference is about 30% of the £3.75m.)

But, Zahawi claims.

1) That his mistake was "carelessness"
and
2) That he has been open and transparent with HMRC all through their investigation.

It is very difficult to reconcile all that.

If you're going to lie, the first rule is that the lie needs to be credible. Zahawi's story here falls at the first fence.

[Donnywolf]

He's a duplicitous proven liar

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.

Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

I've been running my business 20 years. Never had so much as a sniff of a problem from HMRC, either over the business or over my own taxes. But then we don't play clever f**ker games trying to avoid taxation.

[tyke1962]

How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.

Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).

He knows full well what he's done because his sense of entitlement believes taxes aren't for people of his rank they are for the likes of you and me .

That's the crux of the matter and that's the culture running through this band of charlatans currently in government .

If you can't see that then there's very little left to be said .

[Colemans Left Hook]

How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.

Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).

He knows full well what he's done because his sense of entitlement believes taxes aren't for people of his rank they are for the likes of you and me .

That's the crux of the matter and that's the culture running through this band of charlatans currently in government .

If you can't see that then there's very little left to be said .

exactly in God trusts "we trust" to save us paying tax    - 

[SydneyRover]

How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.

Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).

The answer to my question is none then pud?

Careless haha, careless with the truth.

[Branton Red]

The answer to my question is none then pud?

Careless haha, careless with the truth.
[/quote]

Just a note on what 'careless' means to HMRC in relation to tax: -

"Careless means a failure to take reasonable care in relation to your tax affairs. Carelessness can be likened to the longstanding concept in general law of negligence."

More detail here for anyone interested www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/compliance-handbook/ch53400

For a senior politician to be "careless" in relation to their tax affairs and hence "negligent" esp given the sums involved here is unforgivable. Even more so for an ex Channcellor of the Exchequer.

Quite why the PM hasn't dismissed him already is beyond comprehension.

[danumdon]

BFYP

I've been running my business 20 years. Never had so much as a sniff of a problem from HMRC, either over the business or over my own taxes. But then we don't play clever f**ker games trying to avoid taxation.

Agree 100%with this, it only ever seems to be people like Zahawi who seem to have "problems" with carelessness over their tax affairs.

The rest of us seem to be able to get it right very much all the time. Leads one to conclude the fella is duplicitous and not very good at it too boot. Which is remarkable when you think of all the experienced old pro's in the House he could of taken advice from !!

Really needs to step down and disappear disgracefully.

[Donnywolf]

How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.

Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).

He knows full well what he's done because his sense of entitlement believes taxes aren't for people of his rank they are for the likes of you and me .

That's the crux of the matter and that's the culture running through this band of charlatans currently in government .

If you can't see that then there's very little left to be said .

Well put Tyke. The opening paragraph says it all

I still cannot believe that Thatchers days came to an end when the "people" took to the Streets both physically and metaphorically over The Poll Tax

At the time it WAS a very big deal but the direction politics has gone (or more likely has been taken) it would today barely get a mention alongside some of the issues that seem to appear daily

[SydneyRover]

And

''Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid)''

If this is the case pud and I'm happy to take your words on it then it's high time the Tax office put the cleaners through the professional business classes as they are not paying their share.

[wilts rover]

You are 23 (twenty-three) times more likely to be prosecuted for benefit fraund than tax crime. Even though tax fraud and error costs an estimated £20bn a year compared to £2bn in benefit fraud and error.

This is a  government of the wealthy run on behalf of the super-rich determined to get the poor to pay for their lifestyles.

https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1617781231625830401

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1617609190989787137

[BillyStubbsTears]

Absolute car crash.

https://www.itv.com/watch/news/nobody-knows-precisely-what-happened-minister-grilled-over-zahawi-tax-issue/jy25xnf

This is what happens to Governments when they reach the end. They lose the will to even put on a show of being in control.

Think about it. Someone in the Tory HQ has said, "OK, here's the line. 'Sunak has done the right thing by ordering an inquiry because no-one knows what happened .'" And it's never dawned on anyone to say, "Err, but presumably Zahawi knows what happened," and then follow the logic of where that leads to.

[Donnywolf]

And Philp using answers that started " I believe that to be true" or " Yes , I think that is true "

What a great get out. If he knows it isn't true but gets outed later he can simply say " well when I was asked I genuinely believed it to be true"

Not watched this one but he was using it on Sky earlier


Edit ... Now watched this and he didn't do it at all unlike on Sky. I don't watch BBC News so can't comment on that either.