20 games in

[mrfrostsdad]

At the beginning of the season, a lot of people on here were saying a good yardstick of the season is 10 games in and to review things then and not to panic before those 10 games.
Ok, on Saturday we're 20 games in, so maybe a really good time to look objectively at where we are, and more importantly where we're likely to be going.

Firstly, I still don't think we'll get relegated. I'm sure there are 4 worse teams than us in the league. But, and it's a big but, I didn't expect it to be such a struggle as it has been up to now. I really thought we'd be relatively comfortable. So what's the cause? Manager or players? Well, probably both.
I really think we have too many players who are not good enough st this level, and it shows. I'm not going to go through each individual and say who I think is not good enough, because we probably all have similar thoughts. We don't have a single outstanding player who stands out at this level. Not one player who you look at and think 'he should be playing at a higher level'.
And then there's the manager, who has no plan 'b' and never has had. He relies on attacking football, but we don't have the players to do it. We are painstakingly slow going forward and our strikers, particularly Marquis, are just not doing the business. Defensively, we've been better than I thought. Action is needed, and it's needed now, before we learch into the Christmas period with a real chance of being in the relegation zone.
Firstly, if we don't win on Saturday, and I mean win, no 96th minute equalisers, no 'weren't we unlucky' no 'the ref was shite' then Ferguson has to go. No ifs, not buts, he's gone.
Secondly, the board then need to decide if they if they are serious about their plans for us to be a Championship club in the near(ish) future. And if they are, they have to invest in players who can take us there, and I don't think these players can do that (please prove me wrong!) I'm not saying we need to spend millions in transfer fees, but we need to invest and bring in experienced players at this level (or above) and that will need more to be spent on wages/and or transfer fees. Not young loan players like Kongolo who has never played at any level in the football league before.

It's decision time, and it's decision time now. Not in a month, not after th January window. We've seen in the last few seasons what happens if you leave it until then. It's time for our leaders to decide exactly what they want from the football club

[Chris Black come back]

If we are likely going to be safe this season, and have no hope of going up, then there is little chance of the manager being dismissed. Potentially reassessed at the end of the season, but ‘just treading water’ as we are currently is not enough to get the bullet. Very disappointing mind.

[mrfrostsdad]

If we are likely going to be safe this season, and have no hope of going up, then there is little chance of the manager being dismissed. Potentially reassessed at the end of the season, but ‘just treading water’ as we are currently is not enough to get the bullet. Very disappointing mind.

Point taken.
But if we were to go on a bad run after Christmas, which we've done before, given our current position we will go down.
I still don't think we will, but I also think it will be close.

Would that be enough for DF to be given the bullet? I'm not convinced they'd get rid of him if we were relegated. Again

[GazLaz]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

[mrfrostsdad]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

But that's the whole point Gaz: we haven't. And we haven't because that's how good/bad/indifferent we are. We're 2 points above the relegation zone, and that's how good we are as a team

[dickos1]

It might be 5 points after 20 games

[BigKeif]

I have to agree, I do think some players aren’t up to current standards in this league but I also think we won’t get relegated. Just have to see what happens in January and hopefully when players return from injury.

[GazLaz]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

But that's the whole point Gaz: we haven't. And we haven't because that's how good/bad/indifferent we are. We're 2 points above the relegation zone, and that's how good we are as a team

Doesn’t mean we didn’t deserve it though. You can’t judge things purely on points.

[drfchound]

It might be 5 points after 20 games

.....................and we could just as easily be in the bottom four.

The Op is quite right about how the comments on this board have gone this season.
Lets not panic yet, wait until we have played ten was extended to 15 games after it became clear that ten games in we were still struggling.
After 15 games, those of us who were still of the opinion that we are likely to be in a relegation fight again were told to see where we are at Christmas.

[dickos1]

I've always said see where we are after xmas,

[RoversAlias]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

Totally agree with that Gaz.

I was with the OP right up until he said Fergie had to go if we don't win on Saturday. Our form has improved of late, we are tougher to beat taking last night out of it, now it seems finding that scoring habit is the main problem again. I agree that we should maybe expect to be a little further up the table, but it's still fine margins at this stage of the season. If we'd held on against Rotherham I believe we'd have been only 3/4 points off the Play Offs.

If I was forced to judge the team/manager at this point in the season I'd say we are in the "room for improvement" category but not in panic stations yet by any means. If we can accrue a steady amount of points into the New Year, sign one or two experienced additions to bolster our ranks and stay relatively injury free I do think we're well capable of staying clear of the real relegation scrap.

[mrfrostsdad]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

But that's the whole point Gaz: we haven't. And we haven't because that's how good/bad/indifferent we are. We're 2 points above the relegation zone, and that's how good we are as a team

Doesn’t mean we didn’t deserve it though. You can’t judge things purely on points.

We can't judge on anything other than points, and we're exactly where we deserve to be

[mrfrostsdad]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

Totally agree with that Gaz.

I was with the OP right up until he said Fergie had to go if we don't win on Saturday. Our form has improved of late, we are tougher to beat taking last night out of it, now it seems finding that scoring habit is the main problem again. I agree that we should maybe expect to be a little further up the table, but it's still fine margins at this stage of the season. If we'd held on against Rotherham I believe we'd have been only 3/4 points off the Play Offs.

If I was forced to judge the team/manager at this point in the season I'd say we are in the "room for improvement" category but not in panic stations yet by any means. If we can accrue a steady amount of points into the New Year, sign one or two experienced additions to bolster our ranks and stay relatively injury free I do think we're well capable of staying clear of the real relegation scrap.

But that's the whole point: our results haven't improved of late. Have we not taken 8 points from our last 7 games?? I may be wrong and if I am, apologies

[dickos1]

What points you have and whether you've been unlucky or lucky in games are two different things.
Surely you're objective enough to see that we should have had a few more points than we have.
Very rarely have I come away from a game thinking we were lucky to get that result

[dickos1]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

Totally agree with that Gaz.

I was with the OP right up until he said Fergie had to go if we don't win on Saturday. Our form has improved of late, we are tougher to beat taking last night out of it, now it seems finding that scoring habit is the main problem again. I agree that we should maybe expect to be a little further up the table, but it's still fine margins at this stage of the season. If we'd held on against Rotherham I believe we'd have been only 3/4 points off the Play Offs.

If I was forced to judge the team/manager at this point in the season I'd say we are in the "room for improvement" category but not in panic stations yet by any means. If we can accrue a steady amount of points into the New Year, sign one or two experienced additions to bolster our ranks and stay relatively injury free I do think we're well capable of staying clear of the real relegation scrap.

But that's the whole point: our results haven't improved of late. Have we not taken 8 points from our last 7 games?? I may be wrong and if I am, apologies

You're choosing 7 games which goes back two months I wouldn't describe that as 'of late'

[GazLaz]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

But that's the whole point Gaz: we haven't. And we haven't because that's how good/bad/indifferent we are. We're 2 points above the relegation zone, and that's how good we are as a team

Doesn’t mean we didn’t deserve it though. You can’t judge things purely on points.

We can't judge on anything other than points, and we're exactly where we deserve to be

You can judge on what you see on the pitch. I suppose if you haven’t got a clue what you are looking at on the pitch you have to use a basic numerical barometer to judge if you should be angry or not.

[mrfrostsdad]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

Totally agree with that Gaz.

I was with the OP right up until he said Fergie had to go if we don't win on Saturday. Our form has improved of late, we are tougher to beat taking last night out of it, now it seems finding that scoring habit is the main problem again. I agree that we should maybe expect to be a little further up the table, but it's still fine margins at this stage of the season. If we'd held on against Rotherham I believe we'd have been only 3/4 points off the Play Offs.

If I was forced to judge the team/manager at this point in the season I'd say we are in the "room for improvement" category but not in panic stations yet by any means. If we can accrue a steady amount of points into the New Year, sign one or two experienced additions to bolster our ranks and stay relatively injury free I do think we're well capable of staying clear of the real relegation scrap.

But that's the whole point: our results haven't improved of late. Have we not taken 8 points from our last 7 games?? I may be wrong and if I am, apologies

You're choosing 7 games which goes back two months I wouldn't describe that as 'of late'

Dickos: massage it any way you want, we've taken 8 points from the last 7 games which is not good enough. And no, we don't have less points than we deserve to have. We were lucky to beat Portsmouth and on another day we'd have lost to Rotherham.
To quote an old adage, the league table doesn't lie

[mrfrostsdad]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

But that's the whole point Gaz: we haven't. And we haven't because that's how good/bad/indifferent we are. We're 2 points above the relegation zone, and that's how good we are as a team

Doesn’t mean we didn’t deserve it though. You can’t judge things purely on points.

We can't judge on anything other than points, and we're exactly where we deserve to be

You can judge on what you see on the pitch. I suppose if you haven’t got a clue what you are looking at on the pitch you have to use a basic numerical barometer to judge if you should be angry or not.

😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

[Alan Southstand]

I can agree with most of that until you get to the part of sacking the manager. If, as you say early in your original piece, the fault lies with a mixture of players and manager, then how suddenly can all the blame end up with the manager! Yes, he brought a lot of those players in, but what did he have to work with, budget-wise? This is the unsanwerable question and one with which I have wrestled with since before the season started. If, as we are told, the budget was competitive, then why are we signing young untried and untested midfielders at this level?
I think the problems we have are much deeper than just players and manager and if the rumour on twitter last night holds any water, we could be in for an uncertain future!

[Akinfenwa]

If only there were some handy way of officially measuring the performance of a football team relative to 23 others over say, a 10 month period.

If we had such a system then we'd know for sure where our team's performance ranks against the others'.

Can anyone think of owt?

[AlonzoDrake]

The OP drags up a very sad and shameful chapter in Rovers history. In early 1971, following six consecutive defeats in that season's D3 campaign, the Board announced that if the Rovers did not beat Plymouth Argyle on January 16, 1971, manager Laurie McMenemy would be fired. The players responded and played Plymouth off the park -- but their veteran keeper Jim Furnell played a blinder in the 0-0 draw. That performance saved Laurie's job, but he was nevertheless canned at season's end when we were relegated back to D4. We then spent a decade in the D4 wilderness, whilst Laurie went on to great things with Grimsby and Southampton. So, I don't think the Board will repeat history, and give DF an ultimatum like the OP desires. Nevertheless, I watched the shameful performance on ifollow at Wigan -- which I think exposes some serious problems in morale and team spirit. Marquis should be rested as soon May is fit, if not before. Also, the three center back formation is hindering our performances I think. If DF does not want to drop any of the trio, revert to c classic back four and give one of three backs a go as a centre forward -- can't be any worse than Marquis.

[drfchound]

If only there were some handy way of officially measuring the performance of a football team relative to 23 others over say, a 10 month period.

If we had such a system then we'd know for sure where our team's performance ranks against the others'.

Can anyone think of owt?

 

[dickos1]

I think we could have more points than what we have got. I know we have been the architects of our own downfall at times but I think we have been good for another 5 points at least.

Totally agree with that Gaz.

I was with the OP right up until he said Fergie had to go if we don't win on Saturday. Our form has improved of late, we are tougher to beat taking last night out of it, now it seems finding that scoring habit is the main problem again. I agree that we should maybe expect to be a little further up the table, but it's still fine margins at this stage of the season. If we'd held on against Rotherham I believe we'd have been only 3/4 points off the Play Offs.

If I was forced to judge the team/manager at this point in the season I'd say we are in the "room for improvement" category but not in panic stations yet by any means. If we can accrue a steady amount of points into the New Year, sign one or two experienced additions to bolster our ranks and stay relatively injury free I do think we're well capable of staying clear of the real relegation scrap.

But that's the whole point: our results haven't improved of late. Have we not taken 8 points from our last 7 games?? I may be wrong and if I am, apologies

You're choosing 7 games which goes back two months I wouldn't describe that as 'of late'

Dickos: massage it any way you want, we've taken 8 points from the last 7 games which is not good enough. And no, we don't have less points than we deserve to have. We were lucky to beat Portsmouth and on another day we'd have lost to Rotherham.
To quote an old adage, the league table doesn't lie

What about 11 points from 8
Is that good enough
I notice you started your stats to not include the 8th game

Funny that

[dickos1]

Further to this
We've got 11 points from the last 8 games therefore in the previous 11 games we got 9 points.
So as was stated earlier the results have improved of late

[drfchound]

Further to this
We've got 11 points from the last 8 games therefore in the previous 11 games we got 9 points.
So as was stated earlier the results have improved of late

Have we played 22 games in the league this season ?

[dickos1]

Put your glasses on hound

[drfchound]

Put your glasses on hound

God, i have got them on.
i cant believe i didn't read that better.

Keep it a secret between us two will you.

[steve@dcfd]

Come the transfer window we need to bring in players. We also need to get one or two out. Both won’t be easy. We have three centre midfield players all on loan, all were untried at this level before we signed them. They have all played games now, do we keep them till the end of the season and hope they improve. If the manager goes I believe they will go. In that scenario we will have to start all over again. Not excuse to keep the manager just my opinion.

We need another striker preferably not a young lad unless he’s had league 1 or above league experience.

We need an experienced, not old, centre midfield player.

That’s minimum, has the manager whoever it is got the funds to get those players and if my scenario above we wil need more.

The club especially on the playing front is treading water and has done for quite a while. Championship football is a pipe dream. In the next 26 games the club, manager and players (who ever it is /they are) must ensure we do not get relegated.

[Tarkovsky_Mikluzhkin]

It's truly baffling. Why would anyone try to pass off as credible analysis a comparison between 8 games and 11?
Hmm. .. a bit lob sided almost as if the metric was picked to fit the preferred outcome.
Maybe I'm wrong and we will always use the 8/11 structure from now on or perhaps you are pointing out the futility of massaging stats in an attempt to satirise the home office or something.

[Tarkovsky_Mikluzhkin]

Maybe check these stats out instead:

Jesse Lingards CL Yellow cards

Man Uniteds chance of making the CL Knockout stages.

Jose Mourinhos history of telling his players to get deliberately booked.

Odds of lingard being booked tonight.

Just a thought.