New political party

[Ldr]

Ok, a theoretical thread. Use the premise that none of us have allegiances to any current party. We are designing policies from scratch for a perfect world but needing to keep realism. See what consensus we can get to as Yorkshire folk.

I'll start by wanting proper funding for the NHS, a benefit system that is fair, there for those who are in need.

[Copps is Magic]

You're not going to get far, you've just described Labour's policy.

[Ldr]

Maybe that's where we end up but let's run with it

[Nudga]

A policy of being transparent and totally honest.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dead simple for me.

It's about basic philosophy of how you want society to be.

For me, the key is that humans are stronger as collaborating groups than we are as individuals fighting to get one up on the ones next door.

Everything flows from that.

The NHS
Nationalised utilities.
Decent welfare benefits (because we could all fall on hard times) but a big f**king stick against those who abuse them.
State funded education.
Collectively funded pensions (so individuals aren't left guessing which city spiv company to trust their money to).

And of course, what goes hand in hand with all that has to be higher taxes. Especially on the obscene concentrations of wealth.
Taxing increases in house values (because houses are social goods, no casino chips).
Allowing richer people to pay for private education or medical treatment if they wish, but taxing them heavily for it and putting those funds into state services (it is obscene that we have cut state school funding for a decade but private schools are charities that pay no tax).


On foreign policy, again I'm a collectivist. We do better working together than fighting for relative advantage. Which explains my support for the EU (for all it's manifest failings).

It is why I support NATO (for all its imperfections, because we live in a world where you have to choose between imperfect liberal democracies and the sort of authoritarian regimes like Russia or China who would be enabled if you don't have a big stick.)

Idealistic, but you start with ideals about the world you want your grandkids to have, then think what policies and parties you want to support to move that way.

[Ldr]

Dead simple for me.

It's about basic philosophy of how you want society to be.

For me, the key is that humans are stronger as collaborating groups than we are as individuals fighting to get one up on the ones next door.

Everything flows from that.

The NHS
Nationalised utilities.
Decent welfare benefits (because we could all fall on hard times) but a big f**king stick against those who abuse them.
State funded education.
Collectively funded pensions (so individuals aren't left guessing which city spiv company to trust their money to).

And of course, what goes hand in hand with all that has to be higher taxes. Especially on the obscene concentrations of wealth.
Taxing increases in house values (because houses are social goods, no casino chips).
Allowing richer people to pay for private education or medical treatment if they wish, but taxing them heavily for it and putting those funds into state services (it is obscene that we have cut state school funding for a decade but private schools are charities that pay no tax).


On foreign policy, again I'm a collectivist. We do better working together than fighting for relative advantage. Which explains my support for the EU (for all it's manifest failings).

It is why I support NATO (for all its imperfections, because we live in a world where you have to choose between imperfect liberal democracies and the sort of authoritarian regimes like Russia or China who would be enabled if you don't have a big stick.)

Idealistic, but you start with ideals about the world you want your grandkids to have, then think what policies and parties you want to support to move that way.

Have to admit to liking a lot of that mate

[TommyC]

Dead simple for me.

It's about basic philosophy of how you want society to be.

For me, the key is that humans are stronger as collaborating groups than we are as individuals fighting to get one up on the ones next door.

Everything flows from that.

The NHS
Nationalised utilities.
Decent welfare benefits (because we could all fall on hard times) but a big f**king stick against those who abuse them.
State funded education.
Collectively funded pensions (so individuals aren't left guessing which city spiv company to trust their money to).

And of course, what goes hand in hand with all that has to be higher taxes. Especially on the obscene concentrations of wealth.
Taxing increases in house values (because houses are social goods, no casino chips).
Allowing richer people to pay for private education or medical treatment if they wish, but taxing them heavily for it and putting those funds into state services (it is obscene that we have cut state school funding for a decade but private schools are charities that pay no tax).


On foreign policy, again I'm a collectivist. We do better working together than fighting for relative advantage. Which explains my support for the EU (for all it's manifest failings).

It is why I support NATO (for all its imperfections, because we live in a world where you have to choose between imperfect liberal democracies and the sort of authoritarian regimes like Russia or China who would be enabled if you don't have a big stick.)

Idealistic, but you start with ideals about the world you want your grandkids to have, then think what policies and parties you want to support to move that way.

The bit that leaps out at me here that I would take exception to is the comment about private health and private schools.

I pay tax on my income as we all do. If I choose to spend some of what is left on sending my daughter to a private school, making no use of the state sector whatsoever, how can it be fair that under your rules I would then pay more tax (presumably through introduction of VAT on school fees as Labour suggested they would like to do recently) when I spend the money on school fees? 

I take no issue with my taxes funding an education system I make no use of but it feels a little perverse to then actively set out to penalise me for it as you seem to propose.

Same argument for private health. I employ 14 staff members and we pay for private health for all of them. Surely some credit should be given for us being a reduced burden on the NHS despite still paying our NI?

It smacks a little of ideological prejudice/spite.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

You and me against the world then mate.

Tommy C.

I've no problem with anyone buying a legally available service. I just don't see why private schools should be classed as charities and get huge tax breaks.

If I buy a car or a restaurant meal or a holiday or a haircut, I pay VAT on it. Those are all optional choices. Why shouldn't I pay VAT of public school fees?

[bpoolrover]

A policy where you could drop medication off at your parents house and not get slated

[SydneyRover]

Tommy C

''The London Clinic’s Intensive Care Unit (ICU) is a state-of-the-art facility with 13 individual patient rooms.

The unit was designed to provide the very best environment to nurse patients with complex care needs, and to be as comfortable as possible for patients, friends and family.
 

We are proud to have an intensive care unit in our hospital, as they are a rarity in many private hospitals.


This enables us to give support to each and every patient coming in to our hospital for a procedure or operation, and gives our patients and consultants the peace of mind that we can provide this critical support and care if needed, and at any time of day''

https://www.thelondonclinic.co.uk/patient-care-and-hospital-services/our-intensive-care-unit


The problem with private health in Australia is that it takes the cream off the top and does the 'easy' work leaving the difficult and long term stuff to medicare. Private health care fees are rising and would not survive without government subsidies. The government penalises those that don't buy private healthcare by a tax penalty which has given rise to junk policies that provide little care but an exempt from the tax impost.

When private health care moves in and takes the simple stuff it's far to easy for the medicare/nhs to withdraw from that area then it becomes blackmail when the private sector lobbies for subsidies, this of course happens in public transport and many other areas where the private sector promise to provide a service with all the bells and whistles only to cry poor at a later date.

How many of those with private cover in an emergency would wait for their doctor of choice or refuse treatment in a NHS unit?

[River Don]

A policy of a balanced, stable economy, with no growth targets, no chasing endless growth and very limited population growth.

This would make us all poorer and would drastically slow wealth creation, so I doubt anyone would vote for it. To create a long term, ecologically stable society it would be essential but I think people will always demand the opportunity to acquire more.

Still, this fresh air is nice, int it?

[drfchound]

Quote by Sydney Rover.

How many of those with private cover in an emergency would wait for their doctor of choice or refuse treatment in a NHS unit?
[/quote]







The point that Tommy C was making though is that he pays for both services.
He pays his taxes for NHS services.
Those people who pay for private healthcare pay for planned services and operations, to shorten waiting times and have things done at a time to suit themselves.
Why shouldn’t they use the NHS for emergency services when they pay for that as well.

[SydneyRover]

And your point is Hound?

[ravenrover]

A policy where you could drop medication off at your parents house and not get slated

When you are ill and require prescription or any other kind of medication do you not get them from your local chemist? Why would your son or daughter travel 40 miles to bring medication to you. If it was prescription how would he or she got hold of your prescription to obtain said medication? Usually for people who can't get out the local chemist would provide a delivery service.
Just seems very strange to me

[idler]

I have just said more or less exactly the same on another thread Raven.
My wife has to take tablets every day and we are always aware when they are near the delivery date. We also organise a boatload of tablets for her mum and step-dad. We usually walk to the chemist for exercise but delivery is always an option if needed. I can't understand them not being ordered at the usual local chemist in this case.

[selby]

  Sydney, the point is if people can afford it and want to pay for a service, it is their right to do so, end of.

[drfchound]

And your point is Hound?

You asked a question.
I provided a response.
Simple enough. 🙂

[BillyStubbsTears]

  Sydney, the point is if people can afford it and want to pay for a service, it is their right to do so, end of.

Agreed.

That doesn't mean it should get tax breaks.

[SydneyRover]

And your point is Hound?

The real point is that you and selby either can't see or don't want to see as is your wont, but that all other tax payers pay for both services but only get one, without choice, end of 








You asked a question.
I provided a response.
Simple enough. 🙂

[drfchound]

And your point is Hound?

The real point is that you and selby either can't see or don't want to see as is your wont, but that all other tax payers pay for both services but only get one, without choice, end of 








You asked a question.
I provided a response.
Simple enough. 🙂

I wish you would write your replies in the correct place.
Anyway, I don’t pay for private healthcare.

[SydneyRover]

20 billion comments and you don't know where to put the text hound 

[Dutch Uncle]

Dead simple for me.

It's about basic philosophy of how you want society to be.

For me, the key is that humans are stronger as collaborating groups than we are as individuals fighting to get one up on the ones next door.

Everything flows from that.

The NHS
Nationalised utilities.
Decent welfare benefits (because we could all fall on hard times) but a big f**king stick against those who abuse them.
State funded education.
Collectively funded pensions (so individuals aren't left guessing which city spiv company to trust their money to).

And of course, what goes hand in hand with all that has to be higher taxes. Especially on the obscene concentrations of wealth.
Taxing increases in house values (because houses are social goods, no casino chips).
Allowing richer people to pay for private education or medical treatment if they wish, but taxing them heavily for it and putting those funds into state services (it is obscene that we have cut state school funding for a decade but private schools are charities that pay no tax).


On foreign policy, again I'm a collectivist. We do better working together than fighting for relative advantage. Which explains my support for the EU (for all it's manifest failings).

It is why I support NATO (for all its imperfections, because we live in a world where you have to choose between imperfect liberal democracies and the sort of authoritarian regimes like Russia or China who would be enabled if you don't have a big stick.)

Idealistic, but you start with ideals about the world you want your grandkids to have, then think what policies and parties you want to support to move that way.

I like very much what BST has put in his manifesto, especially the highlighted part 

With regards to the Private Healthcare tax I think maybe his use of ‘tax heavily’ is putting people off, maybe thinking an equivalent top income tax rate 50% or even higher. I think a VAT level tax would be reasonable.

There may be other issues with details though. My former employer in the Netherlands and I have contributed a huge amount over 42 years to a health insurance company based in Belgium, a totally mandatory scheme by the way, there was no opt out possibility. I don’t see how my receiving healthcare in the UK would enable the UK to tax my contribution to the foreign company, my contribution being deducted at source in Belgium where my pension is coming from. In an ideal world all countries would have reciprocal national arrangements (i.e. in my case the Belgian government taxes my contribution) which might be difficult after we leave the EU.

Also I would like to see a much easier path for those covered privately to have their insurance pay when they use the NHS (A&E and GP being two obvious examples) – and yes I expect this to lead to higher premiums and rightly so. In the Netherlands in any hospital, doctor or dentist you are asked if you are covered by ‘Ziekenfonds’ (NHS equiv) or ‘particulier’ (private), and you then embark on the same treatment with the bill being met accordingly. I have not been able to find a way to pay for A&E or GP visits privately in the UK (not here in Northern Ireland anyway). I think the NHS could save a lot of money if they could implement something similar to the Dutch scheme.  I admit I do currently feel conflicted, although as others have pointed out the income tax I am paying since I moved back to the UK means I do have a right to use NHS services.

[drfchound]

20 billion comments and you don't know where to put the text hound 

You really must have been on the Fosters SR, it was you that got it wrong.