Theresa May

[wilts rover]

I promise not to make a habit of this but congratulations to: Theresa May, Andrea Leadsom, Penny Mordaunt and the other 42 Tory MP's who voted against the government to defeat them today on the bullying and harassment procedures.

Especially Mordaunt who is a serving minister - for the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/23/rees-mogg-loses-vote-to-let-mps-debate-bullying-claims

[SydneyRover]

 

[SydneyRover]

Sorry Wilts the standard thumbs up emogi is a bit overenthusiastic for this occasion.

[selby]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

[Filo]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

So you agree that using the whip to force MP’s to vote a certain way is undemocratic?

[BillyStubbsTears]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

[Not Now Kato]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

I think the problem is, Billy, that people like selby recognise they've been mugged but think it's somehow a weakness to admit it - so they look to pass the blame onto anything and anyone they can for the mess they were conned into being made.

[Filo]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

I think the problem is, Billy, that people like selby recognise they've been mugged but think it's somehow a weakness to admit it - so they look to pass the blame onto anything and anyone they can for the mess they were conned into being made.

Bang on, I’ve been saying that for a good bit now

[BillyStubbsTears]

The aim of a really good sting is for the mark never to realise who had their trousers down. You want them to direct their ire at someone else.

Look at it that way and this has been the most successful sting operation in British political history.

[SydneyRover]

Ouch

[bpoolrover]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

I think the problem is, Billy, that people like selby recognise they've been mugged but think it's somehow a weakness to admit it - so they look to pass the blame onto anything and anyone they can for the mess they were conned into being made.

people like Selby lol do you actually know what sort of person selby is or just what you judge him to be?

[IDM]

What sort of question is that.?  Folks can only interpret how others are, by what they write, if they don’t know them in person..

[ravenrover]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

Wasn't the real reason for them not supporting May just the start of their power grab?

[idler]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

Wasn't the real reason for them not supporting May just the start of their power grab?

Exactly.  The option to vote leave with a poor deal, but better than any one since was their for the asking if the far right had wanted it.

[BigH]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

Not sure about that Selby.

First meaningful vote on Brexit - 118 Conservative MPs voted against
Second meaningful vote on Brexit - 79 Conservative MPs voted against
Third meaningful vote on Brexit - 37 Conservative MPs voted against

In each case, had those Conservative MPs who voted against instead voted in favour then the vote would have been carried. Everyone else who vote against - across all other parties - pretty much did so in each vote.

More a case of the leader of the Conservative Party not being able to convince her own people?

[i_ateallthepies]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

I think the problem is, Billy, that people like selby recognise they've been mugged but think it's somehow a weakness to admit it - so they look to pass the blame onto anything and anyone they can for the mess they were conned into being made.

Well, no.  People like Selby aren't smart enough to understand they've been mugged even when it's repeatedly explained to them and supported by facts.  That is why he comes on here spouting the bile and bullshit that he does.

[wilts rover]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

How on earth can you write that with a straight face!!!

Brexit has been used by someone (two people actually) for their own 'ultimate ambition to govern'. Dominic Cummings & Boris Johnson.

Johnson resigned from May's cabinet because he said he was unable to support May's deal - and then voted for it!

He said we should not be following EU laws and was unwilling to abandon Northern Ireland - then signed his own deal that follows EU laws and abandoned Northern Ireland!

[wilts rover]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

I think the problem is, Billy, that people like selby recognise they've been mugged but think it's somehow a weakness to admit it - so they look to pass the blame onto anything and anyone they can for the mess they were conned into being made.

Well, no.  People like Selby aren't smart enough to understand they've been mugged even when it's repeatedly explained to them and supported by facts.  That is why he comes on here spouting the bile and bullshit that he does.

Sorry pies, no, that's uncalled for.

I disagree with selby on numerous points (please see above post for details) but there is no need to attack him personally. Just because you disagree with someone that doesn't make them unintelligent.

I like to think selby is more a political zealot, blinded by his ideology, than anything else.

Then again, I've been wrong before.

[bpoolrover]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

I think the problem is, Billy, that people like selby recognise they've been mugged but think it's somehow a weakness to admit it - so they look to pass the blame onto anything and anyone they can for the mess they were conned into being made.

Well, no.  People like Selby aren't smart enough to understand they've been mugged even when it's repeatedly explained to them and supported by facts.  That is why he comes on here spouting the bile and bullshit that he does.

I think you might have the wrong person if you think selby spouts bile lol

[scawsby steve]

  That is what the parliament is for, debating an issue and coming to a conclusion and having a democratic vote on the issue.
  Even more important is to accept the result of a democratic vote, in spite of what side of the house you sit on, and for the members of the house to vote with their own conscience on the subject.
  The problem has been that the opposition parties for the last four years have not done this but have undermined the government and democracy in this country trying to gain power for themselves against the wishes of the electorate by using the Brexit situation for the Labour parties ultimate ambition to govern.

If Johnson,Rees-Mogg, Francois et al had supported the May withdrawal agreement, it would have passed in January 2019.

Blaming the opposition for voting against a Brexit that was far harder than anything ever discussed in 2016, and accusing them.of being undemocratic is just stupid, to be honest. You fall into the trap that the right of the Tory party have led you into.

I think the problem is, Billy, that people like selby recognise they've been mugged but think it's somehow a weakness to admit it - so they look to pass the blame onto anything and anyone they can for the mess they were conned into being made.

Well, no.  People like Selby aren't smart enough to understand they've been mugged even when it's repeatedly explained to them and supported by facts.  That is why he comes on here spouting the bile and bullshit that he does.

Sorry pies, no, that's uncalled for.

I disagree with selby on numerous points (please see above post for details) but there is no need to attack him personally. Just because you disagree with someone that doesn't make them unintelligent.

I like to think selby is more a political zealot, blinded by his ideology, than anything else.

Then again, I've been wrong before.

What a fair, honest, and generous post Wilts.

Well done Sir.

[selby]

  I love it when people underestimate me and think I am thick.  It has made me a lot of money over the years.

[Padge_DRFC]

Being 'deemed' as stupid works well for people. Look at Trump. Billionaire and president of America.

[Ldr]

Hang on, Selby is Trump?

[i_ateallthepies]

Wilts, I respect your ability to see good in people, unfortunately I'm a little less tolerant, I'll put my hand up and admit it's nothing to be proud of.  But, what I said I meant and "uncalled for"? well given some of the horrible things he posts on here and his behaviour, goading people, tarring certain groups with his foul brush what I said was the very nicest thing I could find to say about him.  Besides, I suspect it's like water of a duck's back.