This "Fan"-Led Review of English Football

[RoversAlias]

All sounded like a cracking idea didn't it, and they've announced who is on the panel now. It consists of:

- Kevin Miles, Chief Executive of the Football Supporter's Association

- Clarke Carlisle, former EFL defender for Leeds, Burnley, Blackpool etc.

- Dan Jones, Deloitte Sport Business Group Partner

- Denise Barrett-Baxendale, Chief Executive of Everton F.C.

- Daniel Finkelstein, Conservative Peer in the House of Lords and former Times editor

- David Mahoney, COO of the England & Wales Cricket Board

- Godric Smith, Cambridge United F.C. board member

- James Telford, former Southport F.C. Secretary

- Dawn Airey, Women's Super League Chair

Now, I'm no expert on this but I am struggling to see much fan representation on that panel beyond Kevin Miles. I especially struggle to see how a money man and a Tory peer fit in with the remit, or indeed the bloke in charge of English Cricket. Having an actual Premier League executive seems a conflicting choice too.

So, was it all just lip service? I look down that list and see little to be confident about in terms of this leading to meaningful change which gives supporters a voice.

Jack Peat's article in the latest Popular Stand fanzine about all this ESL fallout is well, well worth a read if you haven't already.

[selby]

  Viewing the list I tend to agree RA, but really we don't know their agenda SM has been in those circles however and may be able to shed some light on some of the individuals, who after all will be judged eventually on their actions rather than titles.
  It's not fair to prejudge before the event really, but I see your reservations. It is the football people within football who have power grabbed from the FA that have caused the most trouble, the FA get a lot of criticism, but run local and grass root football far better than the top of the tree on limited recourses because most of the committee members have been in club football as players and administrators and do it for the love of the game, at the top are spivs and sharks lining their own pockets unfortunately.

[RoversAlias]

Yes I'd agree with all of that Selby, you're spot on.

Obviously this panel will be who consult with the fans, and SM will undoubtedly know far, far more about it than I or most of us, but yes as you say it is reservation and I suppose scepticism that this make-up of people is the best to be so integrally involved in what sounded like a positive and different step forward for trying to sort the game out.

[Chris Black come back]

I don’t want to be the eternal sceptical Yorkshireman but as I said when this was announced, it is an establishment stitch up that will deliver zero substantive change. We all know that the root of all this is the need for a fairer distribution of the wealth in the game and a dilution of power from the Premier League to the game at large. Looking at that group, no way are they going to deliver any of that.

[selby]

 CBCB, their job is to look at and identify the problems, if they do that job correctly we all know roughly what the outcome should be, Then the hard part begins shaking out the spivs and hangers on and getting the big clubs who just a few weeks ago tried to stitch the game up even more to their financial benefit to share their wealth down.
  In my opinion it will accelerate the split,those clubs will leave the English game, will want to stay in it with second string sides and immediately want to be told to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
  Any competition only one side can win it, There will be ten or twelve losers, let them go, hard at first but give them no way back, when year after year failure for most and support will drift away, interest will wain in the support they have who know nothing else but winning things and are in the most part plastic fans.
  It will happen in my opinion, but if it does they have to be completely cut off, the players no longer being able to come back to our league or play representative games and the clubs also, if it comes to it fight fire with fire and set it out so they know the repercussions before the event.

[idler]

CBCB, their job is to look at and identify the problems, if they do that job correctly we all know roughly what the outcome should be, Then the hard part begins shaking out the spivs and hangers on and getting the big clubs who just a few weeks ago tried to stitch the game up even more to their financial benefit to share their wealth down.
  In my opinion it will accelerate the split,those clubs will leave the English game, will want to stay in it with second string sides and immediately want to be told to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
  Any competition only one side can win it, There will be ten or twelve losers, let them go, hard at first but give them no way back, when year after year failure for most and support will drift away, interest will wain in the support they have who know nothing else but winning things and are in the most part plastic fans.
  It will happen in my opinion, but if it does they have to be completely cut off, the players no longer being able to come back to our league or play representative games and the clubs also, if it comes to it fight fire with fire and set it out so they know the repercussions before the event.

I agree with all of this. This struggle will be pivotal to the future of football.
Players will soon get fed up of losing irrespective of wages or at least any worth their salt will.

[Bollinger]

There was an interview this morning and the specific point about fan representation was put to to the spokesman who said there are several meetings due with fan’s bodies in the coming weeks, so it seems there is consultation way beyond the single FSF representative.

Having said that, I struggle to see what the guy from the TCCB brings to the party. County cricket is dying on its arse and test cricket is rarely seen by the viewing public thanks to the sell out to Sky for viewing rights. And now the game is relying on gimmicks such as the One Hundred to get the punters through the gates.

[sha66y]

Maybe football has outlived its purpose and value to society as a whole, a means tested reset would clearly define the haves and have nots, ...this continual need for hand outs trickle fed down is only feeding grain to a starving corpse...

There is too much reliance on unearned funding and it’s time that certain teams cut their cloth accordingly ........ (nobody sheds a tear over Bury anymore...)

[selby]

  Sha66y, when the Premiership came into being Oldham, Sheffield Wednesday, Coventry City and quite a few other teams were instigators of it.
  Turkeys voting for Christmas. and at least two of those teams English sides, whichever they are will be future Oldham's and Wendies as the bigger clubs in that lot pull away, some of them whichever will be turkeys at Christmas in the future.

[wilts rover]

Maybe football has outlived its purpose and value to society as a whole, a means tested reset would clearly define the haves and have nots, ...this continual need for hand outs trickle fed down is only feeding grain to a starving corpse...

There is too much reliance on unearned funding and it’s time that certain teams cut their cloth accordingly ........ (nobody sheds a tear over Bury anymore...)

Yes - including us to the tune of c£2m per year. Be careful what you wish for as it is what certain other actors are aiming for.

[sha66y]

Maybe football has outlived its purpose and value to society as a whole, a means tested reset would clearly define the haves and have nots, ...this continual need for hand outs trickle fed down is only feeding grain to a starving corpse...

There is too much reliance on unearned funding and it’s time that certain teams cut their cloth accordingly ........ (nobody sheds a tear over Bury anymore...)

Yes - including us to the tune of c£2m per year. Be careful what you wish for as it is what certain other actors are aiming for.

I thought our Directors put the 2 million in ?
You seem to have misunderstood my meaning......yes Doncaster does rely on the money put in by the Doncaster board, but we don’t over spend money we haven’t got....I was referring to those teams that are run by insincere unscrupulous people who mortgage teams to the hilt ........then rely heavily on funds from the fa trickle down or wherever they can get it......we don’t quite fall into that because our owners put in what they can to keep their team functioning...

[silent majority]

All sounded like a cracking idea didn't it, and they've announced who is on the panel now. It consists of:

- Kevin Miles, Chief Executive of the Football Supporter's Association

- Clarke Carlisle, former EFL defender for Leeds, Burnley, Blackpool etc.

- Dan Jones, Deloitte Sport Business Group Partner

- Denise Barrett-Baxendale, Chief Executive of Everton F.C.

- Daniel Finkelstein, Conservative Peer in the House of Lords and former Times editor

- David Mahoney, COO of the England & Wales Cricket Board

- Godric Smith, Cambridge United F.C. board member

- James Telford, former Southport F.C. Secretary

- Dawn Airey, Women's Super League Chair

Now, I'm no expert on this but I am struggling to see much fan representation on that panel beyond Kevin Miles. I especially struggle to see how a money man and a Tory peer fit in with the remit, or indeed the bloke in charge of English Cricket. Having an actual Premier League executive seems a conflicting choice too.

So, was it all just lip service? I look down that list and see little to be confident about in terms of this leading to meaningful change which gives supporters a voice.

Jack Peat's article in the latest Popular Stand fanzine about all this ESL fallout is well, well worth a read if you haven't already.

Firstly let me say that I'm glad you've shown interest in the FLR, something we've been pushing and campaigning for for many years and its going to happen at last!!

But, I probably need to explain what a fan led review actually means and why this is extremely important. We've had many reviews into football over the years, and we've contributed to most if not all. This time however we get to set the agenda, fan led actually means that evidence will be based on our topics and on the previous works we've done in these areas.

I have a meeting with Kev (who's been a good friend of mine for the last 20 years) on Monday evening where I'll get to know more about the actual process and the timescales then. I could probably relay that information when I have it, but my current understanding is that there'll be an initial report by July with a full report later in the year.

The make up of the panel is no great surprise, and I wouldn't be disheartened by the fact that Kev is the only supporter on there. In fact it would be very strange, and the government wouldn't take it seriously, if the panel were just all regular supporters. However we do have some advantages here as the panel is being chaired by Tracey Crouch, a Spurs fan and a good friend of ours. These panellists are there to collate the evidence, submitted by supporters groups and others, and then make suggestions on the reform of football. Tracey will submit the final report after taking advice from the panel.

The panel itself is designed to be a cross section.

Clarke Carlisle is ex-PFA remember, so he'll have the players viewpoint.
CEO at Everton will be EPL clubs
Dan Jones from Deloitte. They do the financial state of football report as well so good experience there.
David Mahoney is ECB but his previous experience was with Ofcom, the comms regulator.
And then you have reps from the EFL and the National Game.


The agenda itself will cover all the topics we've worked on over the years, Independent regulator for football, a golden share for supporters, the 50+1 rule, the O&D test, football finance, supporter engagement etc etc.

Believe me, this fan led review will be the best thing to happen to football in the last 30 years.

[selby]

Thanks SM.

[since-1969]

When  supporters have been wanting is to see the return of safe standing at matches but  are constantly being told “sit down “ !! . Looks like their taking their  views seriously. Or not !

IMO sort out the parachute payments system by only giving it if you have played more than one season in succession or payments to reflect the season played in PL upto 5years max , and not just one , would be a start .

[RoversAlias]

All sounded like a cracking idea didn't it, and they've announced who is on the panel now. It consists of:

- Kevin Miles, Chief Executive of the Football Supporter's Association

- Clarke Carlisle, former EFL defender for Leeds, Burnley, Blackpool etc.

- Dan Jones, Deloitte Sport Business Group Partner

- Denise Barrett-Baxendale, Chief Executive of Everton F.C.

- Daniel Finkelstein, Conservative Peer in the House of Lords and former Times editor

- David Mahoney, COO of the England & Wales Cricket Board

- Godric Smith, Cambridge United F.C. board member

- James Telford, former Southport F.C. Secretary

- Dawn Airey, Women's Super League Chair

Now, I'm no expert on this but I am struggling to see much fan representation on that panel beyond Kevin Miles. I especially struggle to see how a money man and a Tory peer fit in with the remit, or indeed the bloke in charge of English Cricket. Having an actual Premier League executive seems a conflicting choice too.

So, was it all just lip service? I look down that list and see little to be confident about in terms of this leading to meaningful change which gives supporters a voice.

Jack Peat's article in the latest Popular Stand fanzine about all this ESL fallout is well, well worth a read if you haven't already.

Firstly let me say that I'm glad you've shown interest in the FLR, something we've been pushing and campaigning for for many years and its going to happen at last!!

But, I probably need to explain what a fan led review actually means and why this is extremely important. We've had many reviews into football over the years, and we've contributed to most if not all. This time however we get to set the agenda, fan led actually means that evidence will be based on our topics and on the previous works we've done in these areas.

I have a meeting with Kev (who's been a good friend of mine for the last 20 years) on Monday evening where I'll get to know more about the actual process and the timescales then. I could probably relay that information when I have it, but my current understanding is that there'll be an initial report by July with a full report later in the year.

The make up of the panel is no great surprise, and I wouldn't be disheartened by the fact that Kev is the only supporter on there. In fact it would be very strange, and the government wouldn't take it seriously, if the panel were just all regular supporters. However we do have some advantages here as the panel is being chaired by Tracey Crouch, a Spurs fan and a good friend of ours. These panellists are there to collate the evidence, submitted by supporters groups and others, and then make suggestions on the reform of football. Tracey will submit the final report after taking advice from the panel.

The panel itself is designed to be a cross section.

Clarke Carlisle is ex-PFA remember, so he'll have the players viewpoint.
CEO at Everton will be EPL clubs
Dan Jones from Deloitte. They do the financial state of football report as well so good experience there.
David Mahoney is ECB but his previous experience was with Ofcom, the comms regulator.
And then you have reps from the EFL and the National Game.


The agenda itself will cover all the topics we've worked on over the years, Independent regulator for football, a golden share for supporters, the 50+1 rule, the O&D test, football finance, supporter engagement etc etc.

Believe me, this fan led review will be the best thing to happen to football in the last 30 years.

Many thanks for this Martin, glad to hear more information and that does combat some of the initial misgivings I had when I saw this list of people.

I just really hope it leads to meaningful change, because it is sorely needed.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

When  supporters have been wanting is to see the return of safe standing at matches but  are constantly being told “sit down “ !! . Looks like their taking their  views seriously. Or not !

IMO sort out the parachute payments system by only giving it if you have played more than one season in succession or payments to reflect the season played in PL upto 5years max , and not just one , would be a start .

Just abolish the parachute payments period and distribute that pot of money more fairly to reduce the disparity across the leagues.

I heard on Football Focus about the most lucrative game in world football. They were referring to the Championship Play Off final!

Worth £182 million if I heard it right. How can an English Tier 2 match be the most lucrative in the world? Utter madness

[silent majority]

This is taken from the terms of reference, for those interested (which every fan should in reality!)

The Review will:

    Consider the multiple Owners’ and Directors’ Tests and whether they are fit for purpose, including the addition of further criteria;

    Assess calls for the creation of a single, independent football regulator to oversee the sport’s regulations and compliance, and its relationship with the regulatory powers of The FA and other football bodies;

    Examine the effectiveness of measures to improve club engagement with supporters, such as structured dialogue, that were introduced on the back of the Expert Working Group;

    Investigate ways league administrators could better scrutinise clubs’ finances on a regular basis;

    Examine the flow of money through the football pyramid, including solidarity and parachute payments, and broadcasting revenue;

    Explore governance structures in other countries, including ownership models, and whether any aspects could be beneficially translated to the English league system;

    Look at interventions to protect club identity, including geographical location and historical features (e.g. club badges);

    Examine the relationship between club interests, league systems and their place within the overall football pyramid.

[SydneyRover]

A lot of work there SM, is there a date when they report back?

[Chris Black come back]

It’s a total fantasy to think the EPL are going to give up any material degree of their financial wealth. The whole Super League farago was entirely due to six clubs wanting even MORE money. They are hardly likely to settle for materially less.

There will doubtless be some cosmetic changes around fan involvement and representation arising from this review but the fundamental problem will remain entirely untouched - the huge concentration of wealth in the EPL and particularly in a small sub set of the the EPL.

With some honourable exceptions, this is a group of establishment figures headed by a Tory MP who will not be rocking the boat, especially as the initial popular momentum for real change will quickly die down in the months to come.

It is largely a bunch of stooges who will see the EPL as a “product” to protect. If they wanted real change they could have for instance substituted the Tory Peer and Times journalist for someone like David Conn of the Guardian, who would have something interesting to say.

It’s a review board of largely establishment figures put together by the establishment. This is not a formula for the deep change that is needed in the game.

[graingrover]

The single biggest decision would be to stop the iniquitous parachute payment system which devalues the professional game and sustains the few at the expense of the many

[silent majority]

The single biggest decision would be to stop the iniquitous parachute payment system which devalues the professional game and sustains the few at the expense of the many

Have to disagree, the single biggest decision will be to appoint an independence regulator and stopping the EPL, or anyone, from the self regulation that we currently have.

[silent majority]

A lot of work there SM, is there a date when they report back?

An initial report as early as July with the final report in October.

[silent majority]

It’s a total fantasy to think the EPL are going to give up any material degree of their financial wealth. The whole Super League farago was entirely due to six clubs wanting even MORE money. They are hardly likely to settle for materially less.

There will doubtless be some cosmetic changes around fan involvement and representation arising from this review but the fundamental problem will remain entirely untouched - the huge concentration of wealth in the EPL and particularly in a small sub set of the the EPL.

With some honourable exceptions, this is a group of establishment figures headed by a Tory MP who will not be rocking the boat, especially as the initial popular momentum for real change will quickly die down in the months to come.

It is largely a bunch of stooges who will see the EPL as a “product” to protect. If they wanted real change they could have for instance substituted the Tory Peer and Times journalist for someone like David Conn of the Guardian, who would have something interesting to say.

It’s a review board of largely establishment figures put together by the establishment. This is not a formula for the deep change that is needed in the game.

Sorry Cbcb, but I have to disagree with everything you've written here. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that these are stooges out to protect the EPL as a product when everybody comes from various other parts of the football pyramid and who's best interests are served by seeing changes made to the EPL.

If you don't see how a Fan Led Review can provide the changes we need then what sort of review would you need? Substituting the Tory Peer for David Conn isn't the answer, and you misunderstand the importance of that particular Tory Peer. He will keep the political lobby happy, but Danny Filkenstein is a football supporter just like you and me, he's been attending games for a lifetine and wrote a football column for the Times for 20 years. In fact all the participants have long connections with the game itself.

I hate to say this, but I'm a lot closer to this than you are, and I'll stake my reputation on this review providing some major changes to the game all in the interest of supporters. This is the most significant review we've had in a generation.

[Chris Black come back]

You are doubtless closer to this than most people, that I am sure. Yes, let’s wait for the outcome but you can forgive anyone who would think that instinctively a review commissioned by a Tory government, chaired by a Tory MP, and stacked full of establishment stooges including a Tory peer who is a lifelong Chelsea fan, and representatives of EPL interests, is unlikely to deliver any meaningful change - especially as it will report long after that initial public relations storm over the Super League has long since passed. The footballing establishment has closed ranks since the Super League fell apart and will all now be working hard to convince this group of largely establishment stooges and the government itself of the need to avoid meaningful change in terms of the financial wealth in the game being redistributed to promote fairer competition.

[River Don]

I have to say, when I saw Filkensteins name what went through my mind was, here's an economist who is very much a part of the tory establishment. What possible interest could he have in lower league football? And why on earth is someone like that on a fan led review?

It maybe a misconception, SM will no doubt tell me he's a lifelong Stevenage fan or something.

[Janso]

SM will no doubt tell me he's a lifelong Stevenage fan or something.

Poor bas**rd. No one deserves that.

[BobG]

Janso!!  Very good.

From the point of view of the man in the street, the composition of the 'Fan Led Panel' inspires almost no confidence whatever. CBCB and River Don articulate the reasons for that very clearly. Maybe, As SM says, there are depths and motivations which are not so apparent on the surface. I certainly hope - and now believe - so given SM's knowledge and vehement commitment to this Panel. But it's composition is still a PR disaster all the same. It may be said from ignorance, but that Panel contains almost nobody to inspire the man in the street with any hope.

BobG

[silent majority]

I have to say, when I saw Filkensteins name what went through my mind was, here's an economist who is very much a part of the tory establishment. What possible interest could he have in lower league football? And why on earth is someone like that on a fan led review?

It maybe a misconception, SM will no doubt tell me he's a lifelong Stevenage fan or something.

He's a lifelong fan of Hendon FC. A club which has very close contacts to the supporters movement, especially Supporters Direct before they became the FSA.

His column still runs in the Times I believe, the FinkTank as it used to be called.

[River Don]

I have to say, when I saw Filkensteins name what went through my mind was, here's an economist who is very much a part of the tory establishment. What possible interest could he have in lower league football? And why on earth is someone like that on a fan led review?

It maybe a misconception, SM will no doubt tell me he's a lifelong Stevenage fan or something.

He's a lifelong fan of Hendon FC. A club which has very close contacts to the supporters movement, especially Supporters Direct before they became the FSA.

His column still runs in the Times I believe, the FinkTank as it used to be called.

That's more reassuring.

[Chris Black come back]

He is a lifelong Chelsea fan. Doubtless he is involved with his local hobby club but he is a Chelsea fan.

I see the review has just had added to their number with Roy Hodgson, someone who I think is the case, hasn’t managed a club in England outside of the EPL since 1982.