Brexit Party Leaflets

[Herbert Anchovy]

No. We're not in circular arguments.

BB questions whether things will improve after we leave.

I suggest he looks at what professional economist who have been right consistently predict what will happen.

BB says it doesn't matter.

That's not circular. That's changing tracks when the argument you start off with runs into the buffers.

But, if we're changing tracks on the discussion then fine. Regarding respect for democracy, I have it in bucket loads. Which is why I'm so annoyed about the Leave campaigns not having it in 2016, when they broke the law on a huge scale. I am continually amazed that no Leave supporter seems in the least bit concerned about that.

I'm also amazed that they don't seem to be upset about being treated as thick by the prominent Leave supporters who told us one thing before the vote, then switched their arguments 180 degrees once they'd suckered people into voting the way they wanted.

Strange thing, this respect for democracy. Almost as if the only thing that matters is winning because it means the other side lost.

That's because a certain somebody wasn't apparently a " Leave " voter . Remember this post ....

" But you are accusing him of changing his mind because he said he wanted a brilliant Brexit, after previously declaring he wanted to remain. I'm sure there are millions of others who now want a brilliant Brexit after voting to remain. I'm one of them.

" Have we all changed our mind? "

Let's play guess the poster ....

48% of voters in the 2016 referendum have changed their mind. I don’t recall hearing one EU supporter argue against having the referendum. In fact they were enthusiastic about it...until the result didn’t go there way.

[BillyStubbsTears]

HA
Corbyn is on video vitriolicly denouncing the EU just 3 years before the vote.

And he's on video 24 hours before the vote saying that there is a strong left wing case against the EU which he understands, but on balance he was in favour of staying in (and I shit you not) because plastic bags dropped off the coast of Colombia can end up in Japan.

And he's on video at dawn the morning after the vote saying passionately that A50 should be triggered immediately.

It stretches credibility to breaking point  to suggest that he is, was or ever will be in favour of anything other than us leaving.

[Herbert Anchovy]

HA
Corbyn is on video vitriolicly denouncing the EU just 3 years before the vote.

And he's on video 24 hours before the vote saying that there is a strong left wing case against the EU which he understands, but on balance he was in favour of staying in (and I shit you not) because plastic bags dropped off the coast of Colombia can end up in Japan.

And he's on video at dawn the morning after the vote saying passionately that A50 should be triggered immediately.

It stretches credibility to breaking point  to suggest that he is, was or ever will be in favour of anything other than us leaving.

BST,

Your right. I’m not suggesting that he’s suddenly turned into Jean Monet, however as May is being forced into fighting a battle that she’s not supported, Corbyn in under pressure from his own party to follow a path that historically he’s always been against. Then again, the Labour centrists have never warmed to him as leader.

[BillyStubbsTears]

HA.

He's not "under pressure" from his own party. It is official party policy. Decided at Conference, which Corbyn has spent a lifetime saying is the policymaking body of the party.

I didn't see the Marr show that Wilts mentions, but if Corbyn is now saying definitively that Labour will not support any deal that doesn't include a confirmatory referendum, that's great. It's just a pity that he's not been saying this clearly for the past three months while Labour's poll figures have been collapsing. The problem is that it is very easy to lose supporters and very hard to win them back.

For my part, if this is now clear Labour policy, they have my vote on Thursday.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You know how this Brexit Party is making this big noise about taking on the Elite and the Establishment?

Have a look at the background of some of its candidates this week.

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/05/19/property-finance-hedge-funds-lobbying-media-a-guide-to-the-brexit-partys-elite-mep-candidates/

You're being had lads. It's not pleasant to see, but it's happening. They think you are so stupid that they can bank on your grievances to put City of London spivs into the EU parliament and expect them to represent you.

Time to wake up...

[SydneyRover]

HA.

He's not "under pressure" from his own party. It is official party policy. Decided at Conference, which Corbyn has spent a lifetime saying is the policymaking body of the party.

I didn't see the Marr show that Wilts mentions, but if Corbyn is now saying definitively that Labour will not support any deal that doesn't include a confirmatory referendum, that's great. It's just a pity that he's not been saying this clearly for the past three months while Labour's poll figures have been collapsing. The problem is that it is very easy to lose supporters and very hard to win them back.

For my part, if this is now clear Labour policy, they have my vote on Thursday.

And then ................... Corbyn defends Labour's bid for both leavers and remainers

''Jeremy Corbyn has given a robust defence of Labour’s decision to try to appeal to both leavers and remainers in this Thursday’s European elections''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/19/jeremy-corbyn-defends-labour-bid-leavers-remainers

[BillyStubbsTears]

Thanks for that Sydney.

"Labour sources quickly denied Corbyn had intended the remarks as a shift towards promising a public vote on any deal."

Wilts almost had me convinced for a moment...

See, I am a bit confused here. Back in 2015, Corbyn took over the Labour Party insisting that he was straight and honest and principled and didn't do dissembling politics. I think that man has been abducted and replaced by someone else. Someone who is determined to tell both sides what he thinks they want to hear.

Trouble is, if you try to straddle both carriageways in a situation like this, you'll get knocked down from both sides.

[SydneyRover]

Thanks for that Sydney.

"Labour sources quickly denied Corbyn had intended the remarks as a shift towards promising a public vote on any deal."

Wilts almost had me convinced for a moment...

See, I am a bit confused here. Back in 2015, Corbyn took over the Labour Party insisting that he was straight and honest and principled and didn't do dissembling politics. I think that man has been abducted and replaced by someone else. Someone who is determined to tell both sides what he thinks they want to hear.

Trouble is, if you try to straddle both carriageways in a situation like this, you'll get knocked down from both sides.

The labor party here has just had a good kicking trying to do just that. Apart from a hostile 'print' media 70% owned by murdoch:

NT News breaks ranks as only News Corp paper to endorse Bill Shorten.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/17/nt-news-breaks-ranks-as-only-news-corp-paper-to-endorse-bill-shorten

[hoolahoop]

No. We're not in circular arguments.

BB questions whether things will improve after we leave.

I suggest he looks at what professional economist who have been right consistently predict what will happen.

BB says it doesn't matter.

That's not circular. That's changing tracks when the argument you start off with runs into the buffers.

But, if we're changing tracks on the discussion then fine. Regarding respect for democracy, I have it in bucket loads. Which is why I'm so annoyed about the Leave campaigns not having it in 2016, when they broke the law on a huge scale. I am continually amazed that no Leave supporter seems in the least bit concerned about that.

I'm also amazed that they don't seem to be upset about being treated as thick by the prominent Leave supporters who told us one thing before the vote, then switched their arguments 180 degrees once they'd suckered people into voting the way they wanted.

Strange thing, this respect for democracy. Almost as if the only thing that matters is winning because it means the other side lost.

That's because a certain somebody wasn't apparently a " Leave " voter . Remember this post ....

" But you are accusing him of changing his mind because he said he wanted a brilliant Brexit, after previously declaring he wanted to remain. I'm sure there are millions of others who now want a brilliant Brexit after voting to remain. I'm one of them.

" Have we all changed our mind? "

Let's play guess the poster ....

48% of voters in the 2016 referendum have changed their mind. I don’t recall hearing one EU supporter argue against having the referendum. In fact they were enthusiastic about it...until the result didn’t go there way.

I don't remember any particular enthusiasm for it , if anything the Remain campaign could only be remembered as one of the most lacklustre campaigns in modern British history.
It was Easier far easier to sell the vision of Brexit , whereas the Remain campaign and those that had to extol its virtues were a disparate lot left with stale facts that the public were fully aware of already. No fears to prey on, no dreams to sell, no lies that you had to back up ....NADA , Zilch

I can't even remember who led the campaign if you could call it that .....it was a hiding to nothing .
Are you suggesting that Remainers wanted a Referendum , what  kind of perverse logic is that ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're being had lads.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/squirming-brexit-party-chief-repeatedly-16171228

[foxbat]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

[Axholme Lion]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.

[DonnyOsmond]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.

Eh? If France had given money to the remain side that would still be a problem. No other country should be deciding our voting results.

[Glyn_Wigley]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.

Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?

Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?

[bpoolrover]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.

you would have to ask Jc about Salisbury he didn’t seem to think it was Russia at the start

Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?

Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?

[Glyn_Wigley]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.

you would have to ask Jc about Salisbury he didn’t seem to think it was Russia at the start

Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?

Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?

Given that I don't give a f**k about anything JC thinks about Salisbury, why should I ask him anything? Why are you even telling me to ask him?  What do you think about it, eh?

[BillyStubbsTears]

It truly is like talking to a brick wall.

Here it is. Simply.

It is illegal for a political party to accept donations from foreign sources. Because British elections are supposed to be BRITISH elections, not something that can be skewed by foreign money. So political parties are required BY UK LAW to have robust means of verifying the source of political donations.

In good faith, to prevent political parties from having to undertake too much onerous admin, the Electoral Commission is prepared to waive the rules for donations lower than £500. Because most fair and open and honest donations are small ones, honestly made by Joe Bloggs.

BUT. Political parties are required BY LAW to have robust admin procedures in place to make sure this good faith exemption isn't being gamed. By, for example, a foreign organisation setting up a bot to make a £1/2 million transfer through 1001sets of £499.99 donations.

The Brexit party set up a donation website through PayPal. The maximum allowable donation was, wait for it...£499.99. And they CHOSE to set up the PayPal account so that it kept no record of the source of each donation (which, if you think about it, is utter batshit, because all genuine political parties want the contact details of people who donate to them, for future donation requests).

So, the Brexit Party has, on the face of it, broken electoral law by having no way of assessing whether their donations are multiple ones coming from the same source.

Then, on top of that, their PayPal donations page has been set up to accept donations in any world currency.

They didn't have to do it this way. They could have set it up to accept only pound sterling donations, from a UK bank or credit card.

At the very least they have inadvertently broken the law and exposed themselves to the possibility of being funded by foreigners with no way of checking. But given the track record of the spivs in charge (including their acting Treasurer who did time in America for money laundering) you'd have to be exceedingly kind hearted to think that was an innocent mistake.

Finally, it's got nothing to do with what you think about Russia's policy. This is a simple case of legality and the strength of the processes that make sure our democratic processes (which Leave supporters hold so dear) are robust enough to prevent foreigners perverting them.

[wilts rover]

HA.

He's not "under pressure" from his own party. It is official party policy. Decided at Conference, which Corbyn has spent a lifetime saying is the policymaking body of the party.

I didn't see the Marr show that Wilts mentions, but if Corbyn is now saying definitively that Labour will not support any deal that doesn't include a confirmatory referendum, that's great. It's just a pity that he's not been saying this clearly for the past three months while Labour's poll figures have been collapsing. The problem is that it is very easy to lose supporters and very hard to win them back.

For my part, if this is now clear Labour policy, they have my vote on Thursday.

Yes that is what he explicitly states to Marr, any deal that parliament comes up with has to be put back to the people. The video clip is on Paul Mason's twitter.

https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1130052946341838848

What is also on Paul Mason's twitter is that Corbyn wanted this to be be the policy two weeks ago but he was outvoted at the NEC.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.

Aye, the "sources close to Corbyn" immediately rushed to the press to clarify that he wasn't promising a referendum.

Jolly good. All nice and clear, eh?

[wilts rover]

Thanks for that Sydney.

"Labour sources quickly denied Corbyn had intended the remarks as a shift towards promising a public vote on any deal."

Wilts almost had me convinced for a moment...

See, I am a bit confused here. Back in 2015, Corbyn took over the Labour Party insisting that he was straight and honest and principled and didn't do dissembling politics. I think that man has been abducted and replaced by someone else. Someone who is determined to tell both sides what he thinks they want to hear.

Trouble is, if you try to straddle both carriageways in a situation like this, you'll get knocked down from both sides.

No, he wont just wave any deal through. A deal with a CU, workers rights, environmental protection should be put to the public for a vote. May's deal and/or any other bad deal that Johnson, Rabb & crew come up with will be voted against. Watch the video.

[wilts rover]

Wilts.

Aye, the "sources close to Corbyn" immediately rushed to the press to clarify that he wasn't promising a referendum.

Jolly good. All nice and clear, eh?

Well I certainly don't see that clip as him promising a referendum - how do you see it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way, if you read Mason's pronouncements regularly, you'll know that he's banging his head against the wall in frustration at the Corbyn inner circle (old school revolutionary communists) who are committed Lexiters. But, given the cult of personality around Corbyn, Mason knows that he cannot directly criticise the man himself.

It's enough to make you weep. The moment you so much as hint that you don't buy into the concept of Corbyn as beneficient, infallible leader, you're out of the debate on the left. So both sides highlight the things he says that support their policies and steadfastly ignore it when he contradicts those ideas.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It truly is like talking to a brick wall.

Here it is. Simply.

It is illegal for a political party to accept donations from foreign sources. Because British elections are supposed to be BRITISH elections, not something that can be skewed by foreign money. So political parties are required BY UK LAW to have robust means of verifying the source of political donations.

In good faith, to prevent political parties from having to undertake too much onerous admin, the Electoral Commission is prepared to waive the rules for donations lower than £500. Because most fair and open and honest donations are small ones, honestly made by Joe Bloggs.

BUT. Political parties are required BY LAW to have robust admin procedures in place to make sure this good faith exemption isn't being gamed. By, for example, a foreign organisation setting up a bot to make a £1/2 million transfer through 1001sets of £499.99 donations.

The Brexit party set up a donation website through PayPal. The maximum allowable donation was, wait for it...£499.99. And they CHOSE to set up the PayPal account so that it kept no record of the source of each donation (which, if you think about it, is utter batshit, because all genuine political parties want the contact details of people who donate to them, for future donation requests).

So, the Brexit Party has, on the face of it, broken electoral law by having no way of assessing whether their donations are multiple ones coming from the same source.

Then, on top of that, their PayPal donations page has been set up to accept donations in any world currency.

They didn't have to do it this way. They could have set it up to accept only pound sterling donations, from a UK bank or credit card.

At the very least they have inadvertently broken the law and exposed themselves to the possibility of being funded by foreigners with no way of checking. But given the track record of the spivs in charge (including their acting Treasurer who did time in America for money laundering) you'd have to be exceedingly kind hearted to think that was an innocent mistake.

Finally, it's got nothing to do with what you think about Russia's policy. This is a simple case of legality and the strength of the processes that make sure our democratic processes (which Leave supporters hold so dear) are robust enough to prevent foreigners perverting them.

This could get interesting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48337499

[wilts rover]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.

Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?

Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?

The Russian government funding British political parties - no way that can happen, surely Theresa May would be all over it!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/russian-donor-paid-135000-dinner-14976784
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6976843/Its-Ladies-night-Theresa-Cabinet-rivals-Brexit-feud-one-London-hotel.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-party-russia-donations-putin-theresa-may-lubov-chernukhin-tory-a8375636.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/11/tories-will-not-return-820000-russia-linked-donations-philip/
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/who-funds-conservative-party-donor-russia-vladimir-putin-link/

Personally I think Farage is more likely to be getting funding form American business interests than Russian ones

[SydneyRover]

What I don't understand, probably because I'm not moaning and crying about sovietentry is why those that are moaning and crying about democracy and taking back control are being fed the very opposite by a bunch of shyster puppeteers and those that claim to be able to see everything can't see this right in front of their eyes.

[bpoolrover]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.

Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?

Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?

why did you mention Salisbury then lol

[BillyStubbsTears]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.

Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?

Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?

why did you mention Salisbury then lol

He did it because AL was insisting that Russia is our friend and we shouldn't worry about them pumping money into the Brexit campaign.

[Glyn_Wigley]

obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.

Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.

Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?

Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?

why did you mention Salisbury then lol

If you don't think it was Russia brazenly attempting to murder people in the UK then you must have believed what JC said.

[wing commander]

"For my part, if this is now clear Labour policy, they have my vote on Thursday"

Well your a wiser man than the rest of the country Billy because depending who is speaking,what time of day it is or which side the coin flips etc etc it seems to change everyday and nobody understands just what the official Policy is...

On Thursday the Brexit party will stroll these elections with a landslide sadly,that will no doubt be the fault of Farage conning the people and the Russians money etc etc etc which is absolute rubbish..

The Tory's were never in this election and this was Labours chance to arrest the general opinion that they are as useless if not as worse as the Tory's.

They've only managed to prove that to be true.Farage will win because whether you agree with his views or not.His position on Europe is crystal clear and people relate to it..I wont bother voting this election.For the first time in my lifetime I'm politically neutral and cant find a reason or party worth putting a cross in a box for...

[SydneyRover]

''Farage conning the people and the Russians money etc etc etc which is absolute rubbish..''
The money came from somewhere WC and Farage told us all he was broke, pity we'll only find out after the election