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Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 15, 2019, 01:53:10 pmNo. We're not in circular arguments. BB questions whether things will improve after we leave.I suggest he looks at what professional economist who have been right consistently predict what will happen.BB says it doesn't matter.That's not circular. That's changing tracks when the argument you start off with runs into the buffers. But, if we're changing tracks on the discussion then fine. Regarding respect for democracy, I have it in bucket loads. Which is why I'm so annoyed about the Leave campaigns not having it in 2016, when they broke the law on a huge scale. I am continually amazed that no Leave supporter seems in the least bit concerned about that. I'm also amazed that they don't seem to be upset about being treated as thick by the prominent Leave supporters who told us one thing before the vote, then switched their arguments 180 degrees once they'd suckered people into voting the way they wanted. Strange thing, this respect for democracy. Almost as if the only thing that matters is winning because it means the other side lost.That's because a certain somebody wasn't apparently a " Leave " voter . Remember this post ...." But you are accusing him of changing his mind because he said he wanted a brilliant Brexit, after previously declaring he wanted to remain. I'm sure there are millions of others who now want a brilliant Brexit after voting to remain. I'm one of them." Have we all changed our mind? "Let's play guess the poster ....
No. We're not in circular arguments. BB questions whether things will improve after we leave.I suggest he looks at what professional economist who have been right consistently predict what will happen.BB says it doesn't matter.That's not circular. That's changing tracks when the argument you start off with runs into the buffers. But, if we're changing tracks on the discussion then fine. Regarding respect for democracy, I have it in bucket loads. Which is why I'm so annoyed about the Leave campaigns not having it in 2016, when they broke the law on a huge scale. I am continually amazed that no Leave supporter seems in the least bit concerned about that. I'm also amazed that they don't seem to be upset about being treated as thick by the prominent Leave supporters who told us one thing before the vote, then switched their arguments 180 degrees once they'd suckered people into voting the way they wanted. Strange thing, this respect for democracy. Almost as if the only thing that matters is winning because it means the other side lost.
HACorbyn is on video vitriolicly denouncing the EU just 3 years before the vote. And he's on video 24 hours before the vote saying that there is a strong left wing case against the EU which he understands, but on balance he was in favour of staying in (and I shit you not) because plastic bags dropped off the coast of Colombia can end up in Japan.And he's on video at dawn the morning after the vote saying passionately that A50 should be triggered immediately.It stretches credibility to breaking point to suggest that he is, was or ever will be in favour of anything other than us leaving.
HA.He's not "under pressure" from his own party. It is official party policy. Decided at Conference, which Corbyn has spent a lifetime saying is the policymaking body of the party.I didn't see the Marr show that Wilts mentions, but if Corbyn is now saying definitively that Labour will not support any deal that doesn't include a confirmatory referendum, that's great. It's just a pity that he's not been saying this clearly for the past three months while Labour's poll figures have been collapsing. The problem is that it is very easy to lose supporters and very hard to win them back. For my part, if this is now clear Labour policy, they have my vote on Thursday.
Thanks for that Sydney."Labour sources quickly denied Corbyn had intended the remarks as a shift towards promising a public vote on any deal."Wilts almost had me convinced for a moment...See, I am a bit confused here. Back in 2015, Corbyn took over the Labour Party insisting that he was straight and honest and principled and didn't do dissembling politics. I think that man has been abducted and replaced by someone else. Someone who is determined to tell both sides what he thinks they want to hear.Trouble is, if you try to straddle both carriageways in a situation like this, you'll get knocked down from both sides.
Quote from: hoolahoop on May 19, 2019, 05:52:55 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 15, 2019, 01:53:10 pmNo. We're not in circular arguments. BB questions whether things will improve after we leave.I suggest he looks at what professional economist who have been right consistently predict what will happen.BB says it doesn't matter.That's not circular. That's changing tracks when the argument you start off with runs into the buffers. But, if we're changing tracks on the discussion then fine. Regarding respect for democracy, I have it in bucket loads. Which is why I'm so annoyed about the Leave campaigns not having it in 2016, when they broke the law on a huge scale. I am continually amazed that no Leave supporter seems in the least bit concerned about that. I'm also amazed that they don't seem to be upset about being treated as thick by the prominent Leave supporters who told us one thing before the vote, then switched their arguments 180 degrees once they'd suckered people into voting the way they wanted. Strange thing, this respect for democracy. Almost as if the only thing that matters is winning because it means the other side lost.That's because a certain somebody wasn't apparently a " Leave " voter . Remember this post ...." But you are accusing him of changing his mind because he said he wanted a brilliant Brexit, after previously declaring he wanted to remain. I'm sure there are millions of others who now want a brilliant Brexit after voting to remain. I'm one of them." Have we all changed our mind? "Let's play guess the poster ....48% of voters in the 2016 referendum have changed their mind. I don’t recall hearing one EU supporter argue against having the referendum. In fact they were enthusiastic about it...until the result didn’t go there way.
obviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.
Quote from: foxbat on May 20, 2019, 03:46:45 pmobviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.
Quote from: Axholme Lion on May 20, 2019, 04:20:00 pmQuote from: foxbat on May 20, 2019, 03:46:45 pmobviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like. you would have to ask Jc about Salisbury he didn’t seem to think it was Russia at the start Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on May 20, 2019, 04:42:48 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on May 20, 2019, 04:20:00 pmQuote from: foxbat on May 20, 2019, 03:46:45 pmobviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like. you would have to ask Jc about Salisbury he didn’t seem to think it was Russia at the start Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?
Wilts.Aye, the "sources close to Corbyn" immediately rushed to the press to clarify that he wasn't promising a referendum.Jolly good. All nice and clear, eh?
It truly is like talking to a brick wall.Here it is. Simply.It is illegal for a political party to accept donations from foreign sources. Because British elections are supposed to be BRITISH elections, not something that can be skewed by foreign money. So political parties are required BY UK LAW to have robust means of verifying the source of political donations.In good faith, to prevent political parties from having to undertake too much onerous admin, the Electoral Commission is prepared to waive the rules for donations lower than £500. Because most fair and open and honest donations are small ones, honestly made by Joe Bloggs.BUT. Political parties are required BY LAW to have robust admin procedures in place to make sure this good faith exemption isn't being gamed. By, for example, a foreign organisation setting up a bot to make a £1/2 million transfer through 1001sets of £499.99 donations.The Brexit party set up a donation website through PayPal. The maximum allowable donation was, wait for it...£499.99. And they CHOSE to set up the PayPal account so that it kept no record of the source of each donation (which, if you think about it, is utter batshit, because all genuine political parties want the contact details of people who donate to them, for future donation requests).So, the Brexit Party has, on the face of it, broken electoral law by having no way of assessing whether their donations are multiple ones coming from the same source.Then, on top of that, their PayPal donations page has been set up to accept donations in any world currency. They didn't have to do it this way. They could have set it up to accept only pound sterling donations, from a UK bank or credit card.At the very least they have inadvertently broken the law and exposed themselves to the possibility of being funded by foreigners with no way of checking. But given the track record of the spivs in charge (including their acting Treasurer who did time in America for money laundering) you'd have to be exceedingly kind hearted to think that was an innocent mistake.Finally, it's got nothing to do with what you think about Russia's policy. This is a simple case of legality and the strength of the processes that make sure our democratic processes (which Leave supporters hold so dear) are robust enough to prevent foreigners perverting them.
Quote from: Axholme Lion on May 20, 2019, 04:20:00 pmQuote from: foxbat on May 20, 2019, 03:46:45 pmobviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on May 20, 2019, 04:42:48 pmQuote from: Axholme Lion on May 20, 2019, 04:20:00 pmQuote from: foxbat on May 20, 2019, 03:46:45 pmobviously Russian money is 'foreign money' , what is truly appalling is that the (supposedly more patriotic ) ' We Won - get over it ' brigade do not care.Why all the anti Russia sentiment? We have much to thank them for in the fight against terror in Syria. Russia defends the Christian world against extremist murderers. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Britain, the US and the West are hardly whiter than white enforcing the downfall of middle eastern states leaving the power vacuum filled by IS and the so called 'moderate' rebels in Syria and the like.Erm, because any money pumped into a UK political party from a non-UK source being - including Russia, who have form of colluding with Farage and Banks, is illegal?Oh, and Salisbury. Or does terrorist activities by them in the UK not count?why did you mention Salisbury then lol