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I doubt it would have made any real difference. It's same as when a politician is told to get new advisers because their decisions are shit. You appoint a manager to do the job, not his assistant. Granted it would make his life a bit easier to have an assistant, but the decisions are still being made by the main man. It's not really that relevant.
Question for SM, would we ever approach a manger currently in work at another club ?
Quote from: Chris Black come back on April 07, 2021, 08:00:56 pmI doubt it would have made any real difference. It's same as when a politician is told to get new advisers because their decisions are shit. You appoint a manager to do the job, not his assistant. Granted it would make his life a bit easier to have an assistant, but the decisions are still being made by the main man. It's not really that relevant.Of course the final decision is always the Managers, but the right Assistant offers much needed support, a fresh pair of eyes perhaps, a different take and alternative ideas, they can complement the Manager's skills, act as a sounding board, offer advice, approach personnel issues from a different angle perhaps? Useful for any Manager, especially one who is new to the job and the pressures it brings.
Quote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 08:43:28 pmQuestion for SM, would we ever approach a manger currently in work at another club ? No, it’s not our style, doesn’t fit with our process.I realise that answer won’t suit everybody on this forum, but we have our standards and it makes us the club we are, respected in the game.
Quote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:00:43 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 08:43:28 pmQuestion for SM, would we ever approach a manger currently in work at another club ? No, it’s not our style, doesn’t fit with our process.I realise that answer won’t suit everybody on this forum, but we have our standards and it makes us the club we are, respected in the game.You could argue that being a “nice respected club” Is part of the reason we’re still a mid table league 1 team... we must be one of the only clubs in the country that adopt this policy. It’s time we became more ruthless on and off the pitch
Quote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 11:30:44 pmQuote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:00:43 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 08:43:28 pmQuestion for SM, would we ever approach a manger currently in work at another club ? No, it’s not our style, doesn’t fit with our process.I realise that answer won’t suit everybody on this forum, but we have our standards and it makes us the club we are, respected in the game.You could argue that being a “nice respected club” Is part of the reason we’re still a mid table league 1 team... we must be one of the only clubs in the country that adopt this policy. It’s time we became more ruthless on and off the pitch You could also argue the opposite, that because we're well respected we get manager applications of the highest calibre, get loan players from good clubs, can negotiate good transfer deals and loan requirements. Players want to come here, any vacancy attracts hundreds of applications, we win awards for our approach to the community and fan engagement. We stand out from the crowd in our own way.Were not really a mid table club though are we? Do you really think that poaching a manager from another club is the answer?
Quote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:44:40 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 11:30:44 pmQuote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:00:43 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 08:43:28 pmQuestion for SM, would we ever approach a manger currently in work at another club ? No, it’s not our style, doesn’t fit with our process.I realise that answer won’t suit everybody on this forum, but we have our standards and it makes us the club we are, respected in the game.You could argue that being a “nice respected club” Is part of the reason we’re still a mid table league 1 team... we must be one of the only clubs in the country that adopt this policy. It’s time we became more ruthless on and off the pitch You could also argue the opposite, that because we're well respected we get manager applications of the highest calibre, get loan players from good clubs, can negotiate good transfer deals and loan requirements. Players want to come here, any vacancy attracts hundreds of applications, we win awards for our approach to the community and fan engagement. We stand out from the crowd in our own way.Were not really a mid table club though are we? Do you really think that poaching a manager from another club is the answer? But is it managing to get the club progressed and promoted?Whilst the community aspect and awards are something I'm proud of as a lifelong fan, the black and white of it all in football is that fans judge success by what happens on the football pitch and results.Promotion brings more fans, more money, more prosperity to the town etc. I do think they need to look at themselves as managers clearly see us as a stepping stone, which is fine in one way and understood but also massively damaging on the playing front if they bugger off at a moments notice. I'd have more respect for the board if they could admit that they need a change of strategy be it approaching a club for a manager. If done in the right way there is no reason why it would harm our clubs reputation and if anything would show that they are still looking to choose the most talented people in the pool they have to go from. Plus is this Burnley strategy working? They need to be honest with AB and say its clearly not working and start the application/poaching process nowBe proactive, on the front foot and not having to react all the time.
It could be though, that a manager currently in a job could apply to our process, and we could in that scenario if he was the best candidate, still employ him? ie we don’t only accept applications from out of work managers.
Quote from: godlike1 on April 08, 2021, 07:55:20 amQuote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:44:40 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 11:30:44 pmQuote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:00:43 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 08:43:28 pmQuestion for SM, would we ever approach a manger currently in work at another club ? No, it’s not our style, doesn’t fit with our process.I realise that answer won’t suit everybody on this forum, but we have our standards and it makes us the club we are, respected in the game.You could argue that being a “nice respected club” Is part of the reason we’re still a mid table league 1 team... we must be one of the only clubs in the country that adopt this policy. It’s time we became more ruthless on and off the pitch You could also argue the opposite, that because we're well respected we get manager applications of the highest calibre, get loan players from good clubs, can negotiate good transfer deals and loan requirements. Players want to come here, any vacancy attracts hundreds of applications, we win awards for our approach to the community and fan engagement. We stand out from the crowd in our own way.Were not really a mid table club though are we? Do you really think that poaching a manager from another club is the answer? But is it managing to get the club progressed and promoted?Whilst the community aspect and awards are something I'm proud of as a lifelong fan, the black and white of it all in football is that fans judge success by what happens on the football pitch and results.Promotion brings more fans, more money, more prosperity to the town etc. I do think they need to look at themselves as managers clearly see us as a stepping stone, which is fine in one way and understood but also massively damaging on the playing front if they bugger off at a moments notice. I'd have more respect for the board if they could admit that they need a change of strategy be it approaching a club for a manager. If done in the right way there is no reason why it would harm our clubs reputation and if anything would show that they are still looking to choose the most talented people in the pool they have to go from. Plus is this Burnley strategy working? They need to be honest with AB and say its clearly not working and start the application/poaching process nowBe proactive, on the front foot and not having to react all the time.Agree 100% especially with regard to paragraph 4. There is a parallel with managers using us as a stepping stone and having players on loan for them to progress their careers for someone else's benefit.The best manager we have had in many years did not go through the the long process of having to apply for the job and then various interviews. John Ryan knew who he wanted and went and got him. SOD!!
Quote from: Maps on April 07, 2021, 10:54:06 pmQuote from: Chris Black come back on April 07, 2021, 08:00:56 pmI doubt it would have made any real difference. It's same as when a politician is told to get new advisers because their decisions are shit. You appoint a manager to do the job, not his assistant. Granted it would make his life a bit easier to have an assistant, but the decisions are still being made by the main man. It's not really that relevant.Of course the final decision is always the Managers, but the right Assistant offers much needed support, a fresh pair of eyes perhaps, a different take and alternative ideas, they can complement the Manager's skills, act as a sounding board, offer advice, approach personnel issues from a different angle perhaps? Useful for any Manager, especially one who is new to the job and the pressures it brings.I thought that was what Copps, and indeed other senior players, were doing?BobG
Quote from: EasyforDennis on April 08, 2021, 08:21:23 amQuote from: godlike1 on April 08, 2021, 07:55:20 amQuote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:44:40 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 11:30:44 pmQuote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:00:43 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 08:43:28 pmQuestion for SM, would we ever approach a manger currently in work at another club ? No, it’s not our style, doesn’t fit with our process.I realise that answer won’t suit everybody on this forum, but we have our standards and it makes us the club we are, respected in the game.You could argue that being a “nice respected club” Is part of the reason we’re still a mid table league 1 team... we must be one of the only clubs in the country that adopt this policy. It’s time we became more ruthless on and off the pitch You could also argue the opposite, that because we're well respected we get manager applications of the highest calibre, get loan players from good clubs, can negotiate good transfer deals and loan requirements. Players want to come here, any vacancy attracts hundreds of applications, we win awards for our approach to the community and fan engagement. We stand out from the crowd in our own way.Were not really a mid table club though are we? Do you really think that poaching a manager from another club is the answer? But is it managing to get the club progressed and promoted?Whilst the community aspect and awards are something I'm proud of as a lifelong fan, the black and white of it all in football is that fans judge success by what happens on the football pitch and results.Promotion brings more fans, more money, more prosperity to the town etc. I do think they need to look at themselves as managers clearly see us as a stepping stone, which is fine in one way and understood but also massively damaging on the playing front if they bugger off at a moments notice. I'd have more respect for the board if they could admit that they need a change of strategy be it approaching a club for a manager. If done in the right way there is no reason why it would harm our clubs reputation and if anything would show that they are still looking to choose the most talented people in the pool they have to go from. Plus is this Burnley strategy working? They need to be honest with AB and say its clearly not working and start the application/poaching process nowBe proactive, on the front foot and not having to react all the time.Agree 100% especially with regard to paragraph 4. There is a parallel with managers using us as a stepping stone and having players on loan for them to progress their careers for someone else's benefit.The best manager we have had in many years did not go through the the long process of having to apply for the job and then various interviews. John Ryan knew who he wanted and went and got him. SOD!! Equally, the last two managers to be appointed without going through an application process were Butler and Dickov, the latter appointed on the basis of proximity rather than ability.
We accused Grant McCann and Darren Moore of treachery and then try to use the same means to attract a manager ourselves? That is hypocrisy unless it is done in the right way.I would imagine we would them expect undying loyalty from the man we have poached.Managers moving upwards like players do is a way of life. I have no issue about McCann or Moore improving their lot but it’s the way they left the club that hurts and maybe reflects on their characters somewhat.I think that our three options for a new manager are, one that might have managed at a higher level but is out of work, a manager from a lower placed team that sees us as a step up or a rookie manager starting out after a long playing career with the relevant coaching qualifications.What we can offer any new manager as a club is stability, no interference from the board and great ground and training ground facilities.
Dickov was mates with John Ryan.
Quote from: BobG on April 07, 2021, 11:22:16 pmQuote from: Maps on April 07, 2021, 10:54:06 pmQuote from: Chris Black come back on April 07, 2021, 08:00:56 pmI doubt it would have made any real difference. It's same as when a politician is told to get new advisers because their decisions are shit. You appoint a manager to do the job, not his assistant. Granted it would make his life a bit easier to have an assistant, but the decisions are still being made by the main man. It's not really that relevant.Of course the final decision is always the Managers, but the right Assistant offers much needed support, a fresh pair of eyes perhaps, a different take and alternative ideas, they can complement the Manager's skills, act as a sounding board, offer advice, approach personnel issues from a different angle perhaps? Useful for any Manager, especially one who is new to the job and the pressures it brings.I thought that was what Copps, and indeed other senior players, were doing?BobGNot the same. For me, the assistant needs to be outwith the first team playing personnel. Especially as Butler came straight out of the squad. Needs that detachment, in my opinion.
Quote from: vaya on April 08, 2021, 08:53:02 amQuote from: EasyforDennis on April 08, 2021, 08:21:23 amQuote from: godlike1 on April 08, 2021, 07:55:20 amQuote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:44:40 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 11:30:44 pmQuote from: silent majority on April 07, 2021, 11:00:43 pmQuote from: Retdon1 on April 07, 2021, 08:43:28 pmQuestion for SM, would we ever approach a manger currently in work at another club ? No, it’s not our style, doesn’t fit with our process.I realise that answer won’t suit everybody on this forum, but we have our standards and it makes us the club we are, respected in the game.You could argue that being a “nice respected club” Is part of the reason we’re still a mid table league 1 team... we must be one of the only clubs in the country that adopt this policy. It’s time we became more ruthless on and off the pitch You could also argue the opposite, that because we're well respected we get manager applications of the highest calibre, get loan players from good clubs, can negotiate good transfer deals and loan requirements. Players want to come here, any vacancy attracts hundreds of applications, we win awards for our approach to the community and fan engagement. We stand out from the crowd in our own way.Were not really a mid table club though are we? Do you really think that poaching a manager from another club is the answer? But is it managing to get the club progressed and promoted?Whilst the community aspect and awards are something I'm proud of as a lifelong fan, the black and white of it all in football is that fans judge success by what happens on the football pitch and results.Promotion brings more fans, more money, more prosperity to the town etc. I do think they need to look at themselves as managers clearly see us as a stepping stone, which is fine in one way and understood but also massively damaging on the playing front if they bugger off at a moments notice. I'd have more respect for the board if they could admit that they need a change of strategy be it approaching a club for a manager. If done in the right way there is no reason why it would harm our clubs reputation and if anything would show that they are still looking to choose the most talented people in the pool they have to go from. Plus is this Burnley strategy working? They need to be honest with AB and say its clearly not working and start the application/poaching process nowBe proactive, on the front foot and not having to react all the time.Agree 100% especially with regard to paragraph 4. There is a parallel with managers using us as a stepping stone and having players on loan for them to progress their careers for someone else's benefit.The best manager we have had in many years did not go through the the long process of having to apply for the job and then various interviews. John Ryan knew who he wanted and went and got him. SOD!! Equally, the last two managers to be appointed without going through an application process were Butler and Dickov, the latter appointed on the basis of proximity rather than ability.Dickov was part of a shortlist and a lengthy interview process.
Bob, if it’s that unnecessary why does any club have an assistant manager? Why doesn’t every club just use their senior players for that?I’d rather our players concentrated on playing and our coaches concentrated on coaching.
Quote from: CoppsChop on April 08, 2021, 10:52:28 amDickov was mates with John Ryan.Allegedly. More like neighbours. He was still part of a shortlist and lengthy interview process.There was a lengthy list of attributes published on dros that the candidate should have possessed.