Giorgia Meloni

[Ldr]

Nail on head tyke

[Panda]

You reckon fascists usually get elected on a policy of "we are going to destroy democracy and instigate a far right dictatorship"?

It is important to recognise the signs of any sort of ideological creep early on. I think leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Take this speech for example.

https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1575002436808298501?s=46&t=9W-l1BNgMMMEw_nq6_VUOQ

Ah. The caring Jacinda and her love for us all. What did she say during Covid? Something along the lines of if it doesn't come from the NZ Government then it is misinformation. 

Jesus. Poor sods in kiwiland. Dictator in plain sight.

Nothing wrong with authoritarian governments when it's needed .

They save the population from the selfish ...........

The Y axis of the political compass is just as important as the X axis.

Be careful when cheering authoritarians on, another will soon be against you one day.

I wouldn't lecture myself on authoritarian governments if I was you as a former member of the Enemy Within Club .

You wouldn't know an authoritarian government if it bit you on the nose .

A load of hysterical nonsense by  folk who weren't even locked down anyway in the true sense of the phrase .

We’ve moved on to New Zealand.

You literally just said there’s nothing wrong with authoritarian governments in “times of need”. Go lecture yourself then.

I don't need to lecture myself , a very contagious virus that kills a huge number of people with underlying health issues and in some cases perfectly healthy ones .

A virus that had the capacity to totally and utterly crash the economy .

The government of that time supported you , paid you to stay at home , supported businesses and tried to ensure life would be returned once the virus was contained .

All they asked is that you took care of yourself and by doing so protected others by trying to keep away from others as much as you could .

In essence that's all they asked you to do and you consider that authoritarian ?

Have a word with yourself .

That's all they asked us to do yes. But when people asked for the evidence as to why we had to do as asked then we weren't given any. Just relentless, remorseless propaganda from the NHS, 'the science', Government, MSM etc etc who realized that there was no evidence so best thing to do to get compliance is to lie, obfuscate and deliberately 'nudge' or psychologically manipulate and influence people. You are a classic example of how successful this was and still is.

Sensible people don't just do as they are told just because they are told to. Without reasoned evidence that suggests they should do it. This is what freedom is about. By trusting and believing the above organizations you are simply pliable putty in compromised and untrustworthy hands.  Which is makes it easier for them to introduce ANYTHING in future, on the basis that they've told you it is for the best.

Presumably you had to be in intensive care hooked up to a ventilator to do the breathing for you before you believed it .

Here's the thing right , you think your the only person in the world who found lockdown difficult , poor you .

It was bloody hard for the vast majority of us .

Difference is most of us got on with it the best we could and didn't play the victim and self pity card  , the world's against us or listened to numb nut conspiracy theories .

Blaming the world for your issues isn't a great look ,  if it isn't the NHS , it's authoritative governments , left , right or centre .

Ever thought the problem is you and your nauseating self pity .

No. Not for a moment.

The problem is people like you who went along with all the BS and prolonged the misery for yourself and me.

[Glyn_Wigley]

No. Not for a moment.

The problem is people like you who went along with all the BS and prolonged the misery for yourself and me.

You're the sort of person who really ought to have copped a dose of Covid to find out what you were actually dealing with.

[scawsby steve]

I read that tbese trends are in the younger age groups

Anyone got a link to this? I'd be interested in reading about it.

Sorry BST not from me,it was a few weeks back I read it somewhere

Whoever wrote it, Raven, I reckon they're wrong. IMO, young people, especially students, are usually left of centre.

It's always been like that, as long as I can remember.

[wilts rover]

Bit of light reading here for people if you are interested:

State of Hate: Far-Right Extremism in Europe 2021 (looks at the growth (or not) of far-right groups, their links with terrorism and hate crime in several European countries and the UK.

https://hopenothate.org.uk/2021/02/16/state-of-hate-europe2021/

[idler]

Just got back from a Canary Islands cruise where there were passengers isolating having tested positive while on board. I think that there were about 80 odd but someone else said about 200. This was with over 2,800 passengers and over 1,000 crew on board. I Maxine if they had been just wandering around the ship for two weeks?

[phil old leake]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[Panda]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[/i][/b]

Something most were stopped from doing due to a mild respiratory virus, because the Government said so.

Once you allow the Government to control your ability to work and feed your kids, you're screwed. The vast majority gave this right up without so much as a whimper.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[/i][/b]

Something most were stopped from doing due to a mild respiratory virus, because the Government said so.

Once you allow the Government to control your ability to work and feed your kids, you're screwed. The vast majority gave this right up without so much as a whimper.

Mild?? Remind us all how many died - and like me nearly died - of something 'mild'?

[Panda]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[/i][/b]

Something most were stopped from doing due to a mild respiratory virus, because the Government said so.

Once you allow the Government to control your ability to work and feed your kids, you're screwed. The vast majority gave this right up without so much as a whimper.

Mild?? Remind us all how many died - and like me nearly died - of something 'mild'?

Yes. Mild. We don't know how many died as a direct consequence of the virus. We only know how many died as a result of either dying from something else and having Covid at the same time or having died of something else and having Covid put on the death certificate. Which happened frequently during the initial outbreak.

[knockers]

Panda
My daughter who is in her early twenties works on the respiratory ward in DRI and she has seen and had to deal with patients dying in such a way over this last two years that nobody should have to. The amount of people that she has seen die of covid is awful. She was coming home from work that tired that she was falling asleep at the dinner table. All due to a mild virus-really!
My own father finally caught it only six weeks ago and had no control of his bodily functions, didn’t have a clue where he was and we all thought that he was pulling his last breath.
I really do think that it’s about time you f**ked right off and started winding up another group of people because everyone on here is thoroughly sick of you!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[/i][/b]

Something most were stopped from doing due to a mild respiratory virus, because the Government said so.

Once you allow the Government to control your ability to work and feed your kids, you're screwed. The vast majority gave this right up without so much as a whimper.

Mild?? Remind us all how many died - and like me nearly died - of something 'mild'?

Yes. Mild. We don't know how many died as a direct consequence of the virus. We only know how many died as a result of either dying from something else and having Covid at the same time or having died of something else and having Covid put on the death certificate. Which happened frequently during the initial outbreak.

Substitute 'we' for 'I'. You have no right to speak for others who are not as ignorant of reality are yourself.

[wilts rover]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[/i][/b]

Something most were stopped from doing due to a mild respiratory virus, because the Government said so.

Once you allow the Government to control your ability to work and feed your kids, you're screwed. The vast majority gave this right up without so much as a whimper.

Mild?? Remind us all how many died - and like me nearly died - of something 'mild'?

Yes. Mild. We don't know how many died as a direct consequence of the virus. We only know how many died as a result of either dying from something else and having Covid at the same time or having died of something else and having Covid put on the death certificate. Which happened frequently during the initial outbreak.

Idiot. I was in hospital twice and still have side-effects. Sister-in-law has just been in bed for a week. But your' alright you selfish ......

[BillyStubbsTears]

You reckon fascists usually get elected on a policy of "we are going to destroy democracy and instigate a far right dictatorship"?

It is important to recognise the signs of any sort of ideological creep early on. I think leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Take this speech for example.

https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1575002436808298501?s=46&t=9W-l1BNgMMMEw_nq6_VUOQ

Ah. The caring Jacinda and her love for us all. What did she say during Covid? Something along the lines of if it doesn't come from the NZ Government then it is misinformation. 

Jesus. Poor sods in kiwiland. Dictator in plain sight.

Nothing wrong with authoritarian governments when it's needed .

They save the population from the selfish ...........

The Y axis of the political compass is just as important as the X axis.

Be careful when cheering authoritarians on, another will soon be against you one day.

I wouldn't lecture myself on authoritarian governments if I was you as a former member of the Enemy Within Club .

You wouldn't know an authoritarian government if it bit you on the nose .

A load of hysterical nonsense by  folk who weren't even locked down anyway in the true sense of the phrase .

We’ve moved on to New Zealand.

You literally just said there’s nothing wrong with authoritarian governments in “times of need”. Go lecture yourself then.

I don't need to lecture myself , a very contagious virus that kills a huge number of people with underlying health issues and in some cases perfectly healthy ones .

A virus that had the capacity to totally and utterly crash the economy .

The government of that time supported you , paid you to stay at home , supported businesses and tried to ensure life would be returned once the virus was contained .

All they asked is that you took care of yourself and by doing so protected others by trying to keep away from others as much as you could .

In essence that's all they asked you to do and you consider that authoritarian ?

Have a word with yourself .

You’ve gotten distracted from my actual point, I just posted a link to a politician who wants to control what people think.

Excuse me if this sounds patronising but I always have this problem when dealing with libertarians. Libertarians see the world in black and white. "If you advocate any shackles on pure freedom, you are the enemy."

Here's the problem. Leave social media unpoliced, leave it free for anyone to say anything and do you know what happens? Enemy foreign powers realise that they have a direct line into the heads of tens of millions of gullible people, who can be fed propaganda with efficiency of effort that Goebbels and Lenin could only have dreamed of.

That's not a dystopian future. It's been happening for the past decade. You can see the consequences in some of the posters we have here.

[Panda]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[/i][/b]

Something most were stopped from doing due to a mild respiratory virus, because the Government said so.

Once you allow the Government to control your ability to work and feed your kids, you're screwed. The vast majority gave this right up without so much as a whimper.

Mild?? Remind us all how many died - and like me nearly died - of something 'mild'?

Yes. Mild. We don't know how many died as a direct consequence of the virus. We only know how many died as a result of either dying from something else and having Covid at the same time or having died of something else and having Covid put on the death certificate. Which happened frequently during the initial outbreak.

Idiot. I was in hospital twice and still have side-effects. Sister-in-law has just been in bed for a week. But your' alright you selfish ......

I'm selfish because you were in hospital twice 'with' Covid and your sis in law is a bit ill? Err ok. If you say so.

Most people haven't been in hospital or in bed ill with it.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Most people haven't been in hospital or in bed ill with it.

Because of the lockdown, not in spite of it.

[turnbull for england]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[/i][/b]

Something most were stopped from doing due to a mild respiratory virus, because the Government said so.

Once you allow the Government to control your ability to work and feed your kids, you're screwed. The vast majority gave this right up without so much as a whimper.

Mild?? Remind us all how many died - and like me nearly died - of something 'mild'?

Yes. Mild. We don't know how many died as a direct consequence of the virus. We only know how many died as a result of either dying from something else and having Covid at the same time or having died of something else and having Covid put on the death certificate. Which happened frequently during the initial outbreak.

Idiot. I was in hospital twice and still have side-effects. Sister-in-law has just been in bed for a week. But your' alright you selfish ......

I'm selfish because you were in hospital twice 'with' Covid and your sis in law is a bit ill? Err ok. If you say so.

Most people haven't been in hospital or in bed ill with it.

I've never been in a car crash, so airbags  seatbelts have never helped me, may as well not bother with them....

[ncRover]

You reckon fascists usually get elected on a policy of "we are going to destroy democracy and instigate a far right dictatorship"?

It is important to recognise the signs of any sort of ideological creep early on. I think leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Take this speech for example.

https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1575002436808298501?s=46&t=9W-l1BNgMMMEw_nq6_VUOQ

Ah. The caring Jacinda and her love for us all. What did she say during Covid? Something along the lines of if it doesn't come from the NZ Government then it is misinformation. 

Jesus. Poor sods in kiwiland. Dictator in plain sight.

Nothing wrong with authoritarian governments when it's needed .

They save the population from the selfish ...........

The Y axis of the political compass is just as important as the X axis.

Be careful when cheering authoritarians on, another will soon be against you one day.

I wouldn't lecture myself on authoritarian governments if I was you as a former member of the Enemy Within Club .

You wouldn't know an authoritarian government if it bit you on the nose .

A load of hysterical nonsense by  folk who weren't even locked down anyway in the true sense of the phrase .

We’ve moved on to New Zealand.

You literally just said there’s nothing wrong with authoritarian governments in “times of need”. Go lecture yourself then.

I don't need to lecture myself , a very contagious virus that kills a huge number of people with underlying health issues and in some cases perfectly healthy ones .

A virus that had the capacity to totally and utterly crash the economy .

The government of that time supported you , paid you to stay at home , supported businesses and tried to ensure life would be returned once the virus was contained .

All they asked is that you took care of yourself and by doing so protected others by trying to keep away from others as much as you could .

In essence that's all they asked you to do and you consider that authoritarian ?

Have a word with yourself .

You’ve gotten distracted from my actual point, I just posted a link to a politician who wants to control what people think.

Excuse me if this sounds patronising but I always have this problem when dealing with libertarians. Libertarians see the world in black and white. "If you advocate any shackles on pure freedom, you are the enemy."

Here's the problem. Leave social media unpoliced, leave it free for anyone to say anything and do you know what happens? Enemy foreign powers realise that they have a direct line into the heads of tens of millions of gullible people, who can be fed propaganda with efficiency of effort that Goebbels and Lenin could only have dreamed of.

That's not a dystopian future. It's been happening for the past decade. You can see the consequences in some of the posters we have here.

Do you remember how those who opposed the Iraq war were represented in the media? I’m sure that if that was now, saying Saddam didn’t have MWD would be flagged as misinformation by Twitter.

People are capable of independent thought. I have this problem with leftists or to an extent as you have alluded to right-wing conspiracists. They think every person who has an alternative view has been brainwashed / misled.

If an opinion is so obviously reprehensible it can be shut down with evidence and the overriding opinion of the free public square.

The state controls social media in Russia and China. Yes that’s obviously an extreme example, but the slippery slope is real.

Trudeau in Canada blocked the bank accounts of those who protested against him, what did you think of that?

[Panda]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[/i][/b]

Something most were stopped from doing due to a mild respiratory virus, because the Government said so.

Once you allow the Government to control your ability to work and feed your kids, you're screwed. The vast majority gave this right up without so much as a whimper.

Mild?? Remind us all how many died - and like me nearly died - of something 'mild'?

Yes. Mild. We don't know how many died as a direct consequence of the virus. We only know how many died as a result of either dying from something else and having Covid at the same time or having died of something else and having Covid put on the death certificate. Which happened frequently during the initial outbreak.

Idiot. I was in hospital twice and still have side-effects. Sister-in-law has just been in bed for a week. But your' alright you selfish ......

I'm selfish because you were in hospital twice 'with' Covid and your sis in law is a bit ill? Err ok. If you say so.

Most people haven't been in hospital or in bed ill with it.

I've never been in a car crash, so airbags  seatbelts have never helped me, may as well not bother with them....

Not heard that one before...........

[wilts rover]

Tyke you’ve summed things up nicely. What you’ve described is today society in a nut shell. It’s everyone else’s fault. If you’re not feeling victimised or minimised you’re the aggressor or the one to blame.  Gone are the days of having a bad few days and getting on with it. 
Every day is hard in the real world of the average person working to earn a crust and support their families.

[/i][/b]

Something most were stopped from doing due to a mild respiratory virus, because the Government said so.

Once you allow the Government to control your ability to work and feed your kids, you're screwed. The vast majority gave this right up without so much as a whimper.

Mild?? Remind us all how many died - and like me nearly died - of something 'mild'?

Yes. Mild. We don't know how many died as a direct consequence of the virus. We only know how many died as a result of either dying from something else and having Covid at the same time or having died of something else and having Covid put on the death certificate. Which happened frequently during the initial outbreak.

Idiot. I was in hospital twice and still have side-effects. Sister-in-law has just been in bed for a week. But your' alright you selfish ......

I'm selfish because you were in hospital twice 'with' Covid and your sis in law is a bit ill? Err ok. If you say so.

Most people haven't been in hospital or in bed ill with it.

You are selfish because you care for no-one but yourself - as you have shown over many posts.

[tyke1962]

You reckon fascists usually get elected on a policy of "we are going to destroy democracy and instigate a far right dictatorship"?

It is important to recognise the signs of any sort of ideological creep early on. I think leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Take this speech for example.

https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1575002436808298501?s=46&t=9W-l1BNgMMMEw_nq6_VUOQ

Ah. The caring Jacinda and her love for us all. What did she say during Covid? Something along the lines of if it doesn't come from the NZ Government then it is misinformation. 

Jesus. Poor sods in kiwiland. Dictator in plain sight.

Nothing wrong with authoritarian governments when it's needed .

They save the population from the selfish ...........

The Y axis of the political compass is just as important as the X axis.

Be careful when cheering authoritarians on, another will soon be against you one day.

I wouldn't lecture myself on authoritarian governments if I was you as a former member of the Enemy Within Club .

You wouldn't know an authoritarian government if it bit you on the nose .

A load of hysterical nonsense by  folk who weren't even locked down anyway in the true sense of the phrase .

We’ve moved on to New Zealand.

You literally just said there’s nothing wrong with authoritarian governments in “times of need”. Go lecture yourself then.

I don't need to lecture myself , a very contagious virus that kills a huge number of people with underlying health issues and in some cases perfectly healthy ones .

A virus that had the capacity to totally and utterly crash the economy .

The government of that time supported you , paid you to stay at home , supported businesses and tried to ensure life would be returned once the virus was contained .

All they asked is that you took care of yourself and by doing so protected others by trying to keep away from others as much as you could .

In essence that's all they asked you to do and you consider that authoritarian ?

Have a word with yourself .

You’ve gotten distracted from my actual point, I just posted a link to a politician who wants to control what people think.

Excuse me if this sounds patronising but I always have this problem when dealing with libertarians. Libertarians see the world in black and white. "If you advocate any shackles on pure freedom, you are the enemy."

Here's the problem. Leave social media unpoliced, leave it free for anyone to say anything and do you know what happens? Enemy foreign powers realise that they have a direct line into the heads of tens of millions of gullible people, who can be fed propaganda with efficiency of effort that Goebbels and Lenin could only have dreamed of.

That's not a dystopian future. It's been happening for the past decade. You can see the consequences in some of the posters we have here.

Do you remember how those who opposed the Iraq war were represented in the media? I’m sure that if that was now, saying Saddam didn’t have MWD would be flagged as misinformation by Twitter.

People are capable of independent thought. I have this problem with leftists or to an extent as you have alluded to right-wing conspiracists. They think every person who has an alternative view has been brainwashed / misled.

If an opinion is so obviously reprehensible it can be shut down with evidence and the overriding opinion of the free public square.

The state controls social media in Russia and China. Yes that’s obviously an extreme example, but the slippery slope is real.

Trudeau in Canada blocked the bank accounts of those who protested against him, what did you think of that?

Clearly you missed the million people in central London who were protesting about going to war again in Iraq , it was all over the media for weeks .

[ncRover]

You reckon fascists usually get elected on a policy of "we are going to destroy democracy and instigate a far right dictatorship"?

It is important to recognise the signs of any sort of ideological creep early on. I think leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Take this speech for example.

https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1575002436808298501?s=46&t=9W-l1BNgMMMEw_nq6_VUOQ

Ah. The caring Jacinda and her love for us all. What did she say during Covid? Something along the lines of if it doesn't come from the NZ Government then it is misinformation. 

Jesus. Poor sods in kiwiland. Dictator in plain sight.

Nothing wrong with authoritarian governments when it's needed .

They save the population from the selfish ...........

The Y axis of the political compass is just as important as the X axis.

Be careful when cheering authoritarians on, another will soon be against you one day.

I wouldn't lecture myself on authoritarian governments if I was you as a former member of the Enemy Within Club .

You wouldn't know an authoritarian government if it bit you on the nose .

A load of hysterical nonsense by  folk who weren't even locked down anyway in the true sense of the phrase .

We’ve moved on to New Zealand.

You literally just said there’s nothing wrong with authoritarian governments in “times of need”. Go lecture yourself then.

I don't need to lecture myself , a very contagious virus that kills a huge number of people with underlying health issues and in some cases perfectly healthy ones .

A virus that had the capacity to totally and utterly crash the economy .

The government of that time supported you , paid you to stay at home , supported businesses and tried to ensure life would be returned once the virus was contained .

All they asked is that you took care of yourself and by doing so protected others by trying to keep away from others as much as you could .

In essence that's all they asked you to do and you consider that authoritarian ?

Have a word with yourself .

You’ve gotten distracted from my actual point, I just posted a link to a politician who wants to control what people think.

Excuse me if this sounds patronising but I always have this problem when dealing with libertarians. Libertarians see the world in black and white. "If you advocate any shackles on pure freedom, you are the enemy."

Here's the problem. Leave social media unpoliced, leave it free for anyone to say anything and do you know what happens? Enemy foreign powers realise that they have a direct line into the heads of tens of millions of gullible people, who can be fed propaganda with efficiency of effort that Goebbels and Lenin could only have dreamed of.

That's not a dystopian future. It's been happening for the past decade. You can see the consequences in some of the posters we have here.

Do you remember how those who opposed the Iraq war were represented in the media? I’m sure that if that was now, saying Saddam didn’t have MWD would be flagged as misinformation by Twitter.

People are capable of independent thought. I have this problem with leftists or to an extent as you have alluded to right-wing conspiracists. They think every person who has an alternative view has been brainwashed / misled.

If an opinion is so obviously reprehensible it can be shut down with evidence and the overriding opinion of the free public square.

The state controls social media in Russia and China. Yes that’s obviously an extreme example, but the slippery slope is real.

Trudeau in Canada blocked the bank accounts of those who protested against him, what did you think of that?

Clearly you missed the million people in central London who were protesting about going to war again in Iraq , it was all over the media for weeks .

https://fujomedia.eu/chilcot-news-media/

[tyke1962]

You reckon fascists usually get elected on a policy of "we are going to destroy democracy and instigate a far right dictatorship"?

It is important to recognise the signs of any sort of ideological creep early on. I think leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Take this speech for example.

https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1575002436808298501?s=46&t=9W-l1BNgMMMEw_nq6_VUOQ

Ah. The caring Jacinda and her love for us all. What did she say during Covid? Something along the lines of if it doesn't come from the NZ Government then it is misinformation. 

Jesus. Poor sods in kiwiland. Dictator in plain sight.

Nothing wrong with authoritarian governments when it's needed .

They save the population from the selfish ...........

The Y axis of the political compass is just as important as the X axis.

Be careful when cheering authoritarians on, another will soon be against you one day.

I wouldn't lecture myself on authoritarian governments if I was you as a former member of the Enemy Within Club .

You wouldn't know an authoritarian government if it bit you on the nose .

A load of hysterical nonsense by  folk who weren't even locked down anyway in the true sense of the phrase .

We’ve moved on to New Zealand.

You literally just said there’s nothing wrong with authoritarian governments in “times of need”. Go lecture yourself then.

I don't need to lecture myself , a very contagious virus that kills a huge number of people with underlying health issues and in some cases perfectly healthy ones .

A virus that had the capacity to totally and utterly crash the economy .

The government of that time supported you , paid you to stay at home , supported businesses and tried to ensure life would be returned once the virus was contained .

All they asked is that you took care of yourself and by doing so protected others by trying to keep away from others as much as you could .

In essence that's all they asked you to do and you consider that authoritarian ?

Have a word with yourself .

You’ve gotten distracted from my actual point, I just posted a link to a politician who wants to control what people think.

Excuse me if this sounds patronising but I always have this problem when dealing with libertarians. Libertarians see the world in black and white. "If you advocate any shackles on pure freedom, you are the enemy."

Here's the problem. Leave social media unpoliced, leave it free for anyone to say anything and do you know what happens? Enemy foreign powers realise that they have a direct line into the heads of tens of millions of gullible people, who can be fed propaganda with efficiency of effort that Goebbels and Lenin could only have dreamed of.

That's not a dystopian future. It's been happening for the past decade. You can see the consequences in some of the posters we have here.

Do you remember how those who opposed the Iraq war were represented in the media? I’m sure that if that was now, saying Saddam didn’t have MWD would be flagged as misinformation by Twitter.

People are capable of independent thought. I have this problem with leftists or to an extent as you have alluded to right-wing conspiracists. They think every person who has an alternative view has been brainwashed / misled.

If an opinion is so obviously reprehensible it can be shut down with evidence and the overriding opinion of the free public square.

The state controls social media in Russia and China. Yes that’s obviously an extreme example, but the slippery slope is real.

Trudeau in Canada blocked the bank accounts of those who protested against him, what did you think of that?

Clearly you missed the million people in central London who were protesting about going to war again in Iraq , it was all over the media for weeks .

https://fujomedia.eu/chilcot-news-media/

Your assuming because it was in the media the public swallowed it .

They didn't entirely .

[ncRover]

You reckon fascists usually get elected on a policy of "we are going to destroy democracy and instigate a far right dictatorship"?

It is important to recognise the signs of any sort of ideological creep early on. I think leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Take this speech for example.

https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1575002436808298501?s=46&t=9W-l1BNgMMMEw_nq6_VUOQ

Ah. The caring Jacinda and her love for us all. What did she say during Covid? Something along the lines of if it doesn't come from the NZ Government then it is misinformation. 

Jesus. Poor sods in kiwiland. Dictator in plain sight.

Nothing wrong with authoritarian governments when it's needed .

They save the population from the selfish ...........

The Y axis of the political compass is just as important as the X axis.

Be careful when cheering authoritarians on, another will soon be against you one day.

I wouldn't lecture myself on authoritarian governments if I was you as a former member of the Enemy Within Club .

You wouldn't know an authoritarian government if it bit you on the nose .

A load of hysterical nonsense by  folk who weren't even locked down anyway in the true sense of the phrase .

We’ve moved on to New Zealand.

You literally just said there’s nothing wrong with authoritarian governments in “times of need”. Go lecture yourself then.

I don't need to lecture myself , a very contagious virus that kills a huge number of people with underlying health issues and in some cases perfectly healthy ones .

A virus that had the capacity to totally and utterly crash the economy .

The government of that time supported you , paid you to stay at home , supported businesses and tried to ensure life would be returned once the virus was contained .

All they asked is that you took care of yourself and by doing so protected others by trying to keep away from others as much as you could .

In essence that's all they asked you to do and you consider that authoritarian ?

Have a word with yourself .

You’ve gotten distracted from my actual point, I just posted a link to a politician who wants to control what people think.

Excuse me if this sounds patronising but I always have this problem when dealing with libertarians. Libertarians see the world in black and white. "If you advocate any shackles on pure freedom, you are the enemy."

Here's the problem. Leave social media unpoliced, leave it free for anyone to say anything and do you know what happens? Enemy foreign powers realise that they have a direct line into the heads of tens of millions of gullible people, who can be fed propaganda with efficiency of effort that Goebbels and Lenin could only have dreamed of.

That's not a dystopian future. It's been happening for the past decade. You can see the consequences in some of the posters we have here.

Do you remember how those who opposed the Iraq war were represented in the media? I’m sure that if that was now, saying Saddam didn’t have MWD would be flagged as misinformation by Twitter.

People are capable of independent thought. I have this problem with leftists or to an extent as you have alluded to right-wing conspiracists. They think every person who has an alternative view has been brainwashed / misled.

If an opinion is so obviously reprehensible it can be shut down with evidence and the overriding opinion of the free public square.

The state controls social media in Russia and China. Yes that’s obviously an extreme example, but the slippery slope is real.

Trudeau in Canada blocked the bank accounts of those who protested against him, what did you think of that?

Clearly you missed the million people in central London who were protesting about going to war again in Iraq , it was all over the media for weeks .

https://fujomedia.eu/chilcot-news-media/

Your assuming because it was in the media the public swallowed it .

They didn't entirely .

Ok thanks, I was only 8 years old after all!

The point I’m trying to make is that state endorsed censorship and media control (there was no social media to censor then) is wrong and that it won’t always be on your side. You got hung up on a technicality there.

It’s good to allow people to be open minded and question the groupthink, this is how we move forwards as a society.

Back to the topic, this Meloni looks like she has formed a coalition with centre-right parties so she will be toned down a bit. It will be interesting to see what the EU think of her and vice versa.

[BillyStubbsTears]

A coalition with centre right parties?

One of them is led by a billionaire criminal who's involvement in politics these days revolves around keeping himself out of jail. And the other funded by Putin and has a leader who has supported flat taxes and opposed gay rights. And he also once tweeted that a communist judge should be shot.

I'd hate to see what you consider to be "far right".

[tyke1962]

You reckon fascists usually get elected on a policy of "we are going to destroy democracy and instigate a far right dictatorship"?

It is important to recognise the signs of any sort of ideological creep early on. I think leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Take this speech for example.

https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1575002436808298501?s=46&t=9W-l1BNgMMMEw_nq6_VUOQ

Ah. The caring Jacinda and her love for us all. What did she say during Covid? Something along the lines of if it doesn't come from the NZ Government then it is misinformation. 

Jesus. Poor sods in kiwiland. Dictator in plain sight.

Nothing wrong with authoritarian governments when it's needed .

They save the population from the selfish ...........

The Y axis of the political compass is just as important as the X axis.

Be careful when cheering authoritarians on, another will soon be against you one day.

I wouldn't lecture myself on authoritarian governments if I was you as a former member of the Enemy Within Club .

You wouldn't know an authoritarian government if it bit you on the nose .

A load of hysterical nonsense by  folk who weren't even locked down anyway in the true sense of the phrase .

We’ve moved on to New Zealand.

You literally just said there’s nothing wrong with authoritarian governments in “times of need”. Go lecture yourself then.

I don't need to lecture myself , a very contagious virus that kills a huge number of people with underlying health issues and in some cases perfectly healthy ones .

A virus that had the capacity to totally and utterly crash the economy .

The government of that time supported you , paid you to stay at home , supported businesses and tried to ensure life would be returned once the virus was contained .

All they asked is that you took care of yourself and by doing so protected others by trying to keep away from others as much as you could .

In essence that's all they asked you to do and you consider that authoritarian ?

Have a word with yourself .

You’ve gotten distracted from my actual point, I just posted a link to a politician who wants to control what people think.

Excuse me if this sounds patronising but I always have this problem when dealing with libertarians. Libertarians see the world in black and white. "If you advocate any shackles on pure freedom, you are the enemy."

Here's the problem. Leave social media unpoliced, leave it free for anyone to say anything and do you know what happens? Enemy foreign powers realise that they have a direct line into the heads of tens of millions of gullible people, who can be fed propaganda with efficiency of effort that Goebbels and Lenin could only have dreamed of.

That's not a dystopian future. It's been happening for the past decade. You can see the consequences in some of the posters we have here.

Do you remember how those who opposed the Iraq war were represented in the media? I’m sure that if that was now, saying Saddam didn’t have MWD would be flagged as misinformation by Twitter.

People are capable of independent thought. I have this problem with leftists or to an extent as you have alluded to right-wing conspiracists. They think every person who has an alternative view has been brainwashed / misled.

If an opinion is so obviously reprehensible it can be shut down with evidence and the overriding opinion of the free public square.

The state controls social media in Russia and China. Yes that’s obviously an extreme example, but the slippery slope is real.

Trudeau in Canada blocked the bank accounts of those who protested against him, what did you think of that?

Clearly you missed the million people in central London who were protesting about going to war again in Iraq , it was all over the media for weeks .

https://fujomedia.eu/chilcot-news-media/

Your assuming because it was in the media the public swallowed it .

They didn't entirely .

Ok thanks, I was only 8 years old after all!

The point I’m trying to make is that state endorsed censorship and media control (there was no social media to censor then) is wrong and that it won’t always be on your side. You got hung up on a technicality there.

It’s good to allow people to be open minded and question the groupthink, this is how we move forwards as a society.

Back to the topic, this Meloni looks like she has formed a coalition with centre-right parties so she will be toned down a bit. It will be interesting to see what the EU think of her and vice versa.

Let me put it to you another way on how it played out or at least as I remember it .

The Labour vote at the 2005 election fell off the cliff and to be honest the fact that no WOMD's were ever found was in that loss of votes but the main reason was the fact we'd gone back there at all .

The media were also waking up to the fact that Blair and Bush were getting a little too chumy and getting fed up with it and they were saying so .

They won the 2005 election comfortably enough although they couldn't really lose it given the Tories were in disarray .

However Blair knew he was shot and he knew why and a plan was hatched for Brown to take over .

[ncRover]

A coalition with centre right parties?

One of them is led by a billionaire criminal who's involvement in politics these days revolves around keeping himself out of jail. And the other funded by Putin and has a leader who has supported flat taxes and opposed gay rights. And he also once tweeted that a communist judge should be shot.

I'd hate to see what you consider to be "far right".

UKIP, BNP etc…

You’ve got hung up on a subjective technicality rather than debate any of my above points.

Believe it our not I’m not an expert in Italian politics, I’m just going off what I’ve read.

[ncRover]

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.”

[ncRover]

You reckon fascists usually get elected on a policy of "we are going to destroy democracy and instigate a far right dictatorship"?

It is important to recognise the signs of any sort of ideological creep early on. I think leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Take this speech for example.

https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1575002436808298501?s=46&t=9W-l1BNgMMMEw_nq6_VUOQ

Ah. The caring Jacinda and her love for us all. What did she say during Covid? Something along the lines of if it doesn't come from the NZ Government then it is misinformation. 

Jesus. Poor sods in kiwiland. Dictator in plain sight.

Nothing wrong with authoritarian governments when it's needed .

They save the population from the selfish ...........

The Y axis of the political compass is just as important as the X axis.

Be careful when cheering authoritarians on, another will soon be against you one day.

I wouldn't lecture myself on authoritarian governments if I was you as a former member of the Enemy Within Club .

You wouldn't know an authoritarian government if it bit you on the nose .

A load of hysterical nonsense by  folk who weren't even locked down anyway in the true sense of the phrase .

We’ve moved on to New Zealand.

You literally just said there’s nothing wrong with authoritarian governments in “times of need”. Go lecture yourself then.

I don't need to lecture myself , a very contagious virus that kills a huge number of people with underlying health issues and in some cases perfectly healthy ones .

A virus that had the capacity to totally and utterly crash the economy .

The government of that time supported you , paid you to stay at home , supported businesses and tried to ensure life would be returned once the virus was contained .

All they asked is that you took care of yourself and by doing so protected others by trying to keep away from others as much as you could .

In essence that's all they asked you to do and you consider that authoritarian ?

Have a word with yourself .

You’ve gotten distracted from my actual point, I just posted a link to a politician who wants to control what people think.

Excuse me if this sounds patronising but I always have this problem when dealing with libertarians. Libertarians see the world in black and white. "If you advocate any shackles on pure freedom, you are the enemy."

Here's the problem. Leave social media unpoliced, leave it free for anyone to say anything and do you know what happens? Enemy foreign powers realise that they have a direct line into the heads of tens of millions of gullible people, who can be fed propaganda with efficiency of effort that Goebbels and Lenin could only have dreamed of.

That's not a dystopian future. It's been happening for the past decade. You can see the consequences in some of the posters we have here.

Do you remember how those who opposed the Iraq war were represented in the media? I’m sure that if that was now, saying Saddam didn’t have MWD would be flagged as misinformation by Twitter.

People are capable of independent thought. I have this problem with leftists or to an extent as you have alluded to right-wing conspiracists. They think every person who has an alternative view has been brainwashed / misled.

If an opinion is so obviously reprehensible it can be shut down with evidence and the overriding opinion of the free public square.

The state controls social media in Russia and China. Yes that’s obviously an extreme example, but the slippery slope is real.

Trudeau in Canada blocked the bank accounts of those who protested against him, what did you think of that?

Clearly you missed the million people in central London who were protesting about going to war again in Iraq , it was all over the media for weeks .

https://fujomedia.eu/chilcot-news-media/

Your assuming because it was in the media the public swallowed it .

They didn't entirely .

Ok thanks, I was only 8 years old after all!

The point I’m trying to make is that state endorsed censorship and media control (there was no social media to censor then) is wrong and that it won’t always be on your side. You got hung up on a technicality there.

It’s good to allow people to be open minded and question the groupthink, this is how we move forwards as a society.

Back to the topic, this Meloni looks like she has formed a coalition with centre-right parties so she will be toned down a bit. It will be interesting to see what the EU think of her and vice versa.

Let me put it to you another way on how it played out or at least as I remember it .

The Labour vote at the 2005 election fell off the cliff and to be honest the fact that no WOMD's were ever found was in that loss of votes but the main reason was the fact we'd gone back there at all .

The media were also waking up to the fact that Blair and Bush were getting a little too chumy and getting fed up with it and they were saying so .

They won the 2005 election comfortably enough although they couldn't really lose it given the Tories were in disarray .

However Blair knew he was shot and he knew why and a plan was hatched for Brown to take over .

Thanks Tyke.

I know I’ve got some different opinions to you lot but I do enjoy the debate, learning things on here and seeing things from other perspectives.

[BillyStubbsTears]

A coalition with centre right parties?

One of them is led by a billionaire criminal who's involvement in politics these days revolves around keeping himself out of jail. And the other funded by Putin and has a leader who has supported flat taxes and opposed gay rights. And he also once tweeted that a communist judge should be shot.

I'd hate to see what you consider to be "far right".

UKIP, BNP etc…

You’ve got hung up on a subjective technicality rather than debate any of my above points.

Believe it our not I’m not an expert in Italian politics, I’m just going off what I’ve read.

If you're reading that Matteo Salvini is centre-right, I respectfully suggest you need to widen your sources.