Disorder in Knowsley

[normal rules]

I see there was planned peaceful protest last night in Knowsley outside a hotel housing migrants.
It was anything but peaceful. A police van burnt to a shell, cars damaged, officers hurt.
It’s like the EDL all over again.
And locally, we have a similar protest planned in Skegness on feb 25.

[wilts rover]

If only they had stuck themselves to the road peacefully then maybe the police and government might have done something.

Only last Wednesday a government review of the terrorist threat to this country downplayed the role of the Far-Right and said less resources should be concentrated on them.

You appease the fasc, dont be surprised if you get fascism.

[ravenrover]

Rabble emboldened by this Governments attitude to the current problem.
When a very senior cabinet member "dreams of the day" she can see a plane load of immigrants on it's way to Rwanda what do you expect

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dog whistle stuff.

Thursday the Home Secretary talks about a Prevent programme that has (successfully) been targeted at far right terrorism as "politically correct".

Friday night, far right thugs take to the streets.

Braverman WOULD espouse fascism if she thought she could get away with it. She's a frightening woman.

[danumdon]

If there was going to any protesting it should of been outside the building that houses these awful politicians with their god awful policies.

I think we are beyond the point where this government has long been served its sell buy date.

There really does need to be a major reset in this country to stop us drifting on the winds of whichever ludicrous ideology we are to be bombarded with next.

We need someone to come to power with the vision to do this and enable some form of suitable PR to be rushed through to stop these extreme elements from being anywhere near power in future.

Are we safe from the next government believing it has a mandate to rush for the opposite direction?

[wilts rover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

[ravenrover]

I see Cruella has now come out and blamed the allegations of sexual abuse, man released with no charges, at the refugee centre for the violence
Shamefull!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1624450521154129920

I don't often feel ashamed to be British, but the fact that I live in a land that has had two abominations for Home Secretary over the past few years disgusts me.

This is absolutely disgraceful from Braverman. The very fact that she raises "the alleged behaviour" will justify the actions of the fascist thugs to a certain section of society.

[wilts rover]

https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1624450521154129920

I don't often feel ashamed to be British, but the fact that I live in a land that has had two abominations for Home Secretary over the past few years disgusts me.

This is absolutely disgraceful from Braverman. The very fact that she raises "the alleged behaviour" will justify the actions of the fascist thugs to a certain section of society.

Which is exactly what it is intended to do. Bring back the 6% who have deserted the Tories for the Reform party. How the few decent people left can continue to support this shower of s***e is beyond me.

[ravenrover]

25% still vote or will vote Tory !!!

[danumdon]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

[wilts rover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

Yes. Because UKIP got 12.5% in 2017 (that's about 75 MP's) and their policies and spokespeople are the same as those people in Knowsley on Friday night.

If you don't believe me - listen to the leader of Britain First:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XAZEPRsFIs

[danumdon]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

Yes. Because UKIP got 12.5% in 2017 (that's about 75 MP's) and their policies and spokespeople are the same as those people in Knowsley on Friday night.

If you don't believe me - listen to the leader of Britain First:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XAZEPRsFIs

Completely another time and place, UKIP now don’t exist in that incarnation anymore.

Any far right grouping in the next election would be nowhere near those numbers. If anything it could be a far left grouping that attracted a bigger support, something for all mainstream parties to have to give credence to and construct their manifesto pledges  accordingly.

[wilts rover]

You reckon. Those people still exist - as do the media outlets who feed them.

Increase in hate crime in UK 2018-2022. Vote for the facs - you get facsism

[BobG]

Christ. That is one scary, scary table.

The causes of it though are even more scary.

BobG

[wilts rover]

The scariest thing for me Bob is people denying it exists when presented with exactly the same evidence I have.

[BobG]

I was discussing just today the myopic 'my world' view of a large proportion of humanity. Stuck in their comfort zone,  blind to anything that challenges their private Weltanschaung. Progress, change, only ever comes from those who possess bravery, a mind willing to accept evidence based facts irrespective of whether or not they like those facts, and, eyes open far enough to actually see what's in front of them. I didn't and don't like Mrs Thatcher, but shutting my eyes, my mind, to the revolution she wrought because I didn't and don't like what she did, would be as stupid as the blindness you have pointed out Wilts.

BobG

[bpoolrover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

I doubt very much any of them in Knowsley vote Tory either of course i have no proof of that!

[wilts rover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

I doubt very much any of them in Knowsley vote Tory either of course i have no proof of that!

4 1/2k voted Tory there in 2019 with another 3k voting Brexit Party.

[Sprotyrover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

I doubt very much any of them in Knowsley vote Tory either of course i have no proof of that!

4 1/2k voted Tory there in 2019 with another 3k voting Brexit Party.

And 44,000 voted Labour, they got 80% of the entire vote, what does that tell you ?

[BobG]

A consituency populated, in the main, by reasonably sensible people!

BobG

[Sprotyrover]

A consituency populated, in the main, by reasonably sensible people!

BobG

I have said it before most Labour voters have a veiw on Assylum seekers which is slightly to the right of Ghengis Khan!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sproty.

I assume you mean most of the Labour voters YOU KNOW.

[wilts rover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

I doubt very much any of them in Knowsley vote Tory either of course i have no proof of that!

4 1/2k voted Tory there in 2019 with another 3k voting Brexit Party.

And 44,000 voted Labour, they got 80% of the entire vote, what does that tell you ?

There were 7 1/2k people who voted for right wing parties in Knowsley who may have been part of the 400 people involved in the firebombing of a police van last Friday night. Or they may have all been from outside the area.

What does it tell you?

[Sprotyrover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

It tells me that on the balance of probabilities that 80% of the Trouble
Causes were Labour voters

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

I doubt very much any of them in Knowsley vote Tory either of course i have no proof of that!

4 1/2k voted Tory there in 2019 with another 3k voting Brexit Party.

And 44,000 voted Labour, they got 80% of the entire vote, what does that tell you ?

There were 7 1/2k people who voted for right wing parties in Knowsley who may have been part of the 400 people involved in the firebombing of a police van last Friday night. Or they may have all been from outside the area.

What does it tell you?

80% of the trouble causes vote labour

[wilts rover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

It tells me that on the balance of probabilities that 80% of the Trouble
Causes were Labour voters

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

I doubt very much any of them in Knowsley vote Tory either of course i have no proof of that!

4 1/2k voted Tory there in 2019 with another 3k voting Brexit Party.

And 44,000 voted Labour, they got 80% of the entire vote, what does that tell you ?

There were 7 1/2k people who voted for right wing parties in Knowsley who may have been part of the 400 people involved in the firebombing of a police van last Friday night. Or they may have all been from outside the area.

What does it tell you?

80% of the trouble causes vote labour

Really? Who were in the counter protest against the far-right fascist thugs then?

As I said above it's not the fact hate crime is increasing in this country that bothers me. It's the fact that presented with the same evidence I have people deny that it is.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/02/17/frjk-f17.html
https://bylinetimes.com/2023/02/13/what-the-knowsley-riot-tells-us-about-the-far-right-today/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/knowsley-asylum-seeker-hotel-riot-b2281367.html
https://shows.acast.com/byline-times-podcast/episodes/knowsley-the-far-right

[Sprotyrover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

It tells me that on the balance of probabilities that 80% of the Trouble
Causes were Labour voters

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

I doubt very much any of them in Knowsley vote Tory either of course i have no proof of that!

4 1/2k voted Tory there in 2019 with another 3k voting Brexit Party.

And 44,000 voted Labour, they got 80% of the entire vote, what does that tell you ?

There were 7 1/2k people who voted for right wing parties in Knowsley who may have been part of the 400 people involved in the firebombing of a police van last Friday night. Or they may have all been from outside the area.

What does it tell you?

80% of the trouble causes vote labour

Really? Who were in the counter protest against the far-right fascist thugs then?

As I said above it's not the fact hate crime is increasing in this country that bothers me. It's the fact that presented with the same evidence I have people deny that it is.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/02/17/frjk-f17.html
https://bylinetimes.com/2023/02/13/what-the-knowsley-riot-tells-us-about-the-far-right-today/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/knowsley-asylum-seeker-hotel-riot-b2281367.html
https://shows.acast.com/byline-times-podcast/episodes/knowsley-the-far-right

I will hazard a guess and say the Counter Demonstrators were a bunch of left wing idiots,who also went there to make the Police
job more difficult .

[wilts rover]

What would you class as 'the opposite direction' to firebombing police vans dd? Not firebombing police vans?

PR will actually help extreme elements gain power btw. UKIP got 12.5% of the votes in 2015 and 1 MP. Lib Dems had 8% and 8 MP's and SNP 4.7% and 56 MP's.

It tells me that on the balance of probabilities that 80% of the Trouble
Causes were Labour voters

Not sure where you get the next government rushing in the opposite direction with regards to policy and ideology manifests itself as "fire bombing police vans" but hey, at least your consistent.

As for PR enabling extremists, this is the UK not Israel or the like, can you see some extremist elements getting anything like enough percentage wise to win seats?

I doubt very much any of them in Knowsley vote Tory either of course i have no proof of that!

4 1/2k voted Tory there in 2019 with another 3k voting Brexit Party.

And 44,000 voted Labour, they got 80% of the entire vote, what does that tell you ?

There were 7 1/2k people who voted for right wing parties in Knowsley who may have been part of the 400 people involved in the firebombing of a police van last Friday night. Or they may have all been from outside the area.

What does it tell you?

80% of the trouble causes vote labour

Really? Who were in the counter protest against the far-right fascist thugs then?

As I said above it's not the fact hate crime is increasing in this country that bothers me. It's the fact that presented with the same evidence I have people deny that it is.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/02/17/frjk-f17.html
https://bylinetimes.com/2023/02/13/what-the-knowsley-riot-tells-us-about-the-far-right-today/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/knowsley-asylum-seeker-hotel-riot-b2281367.html
https://shows.acast.com/byline-times-podcast/episodes/knowsley-the-far-right

I will hazard a guess and say the Counter Demonstrators were a bunch of left wing idiots,who also went there to make the Police
job more difficult .

Opposing the right wing fascists that you have denied existed until now?

[BobG]

So you make policy, and your opinions vased in guesswirk then Sproty? Figures.

Ref your response se in post 26 above.

BobG

[Sprotyrover]

So you make policy, and your opinions vased in guesswirk then Sproty? Figures.

Ref your response se in post 26 above.

BobG

I do believe I have a good grasp of the English language but I don’t know what you are raving on about?