Defence spending

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right thing announced by Sunak today, although I fear that 2.5% of GDP might be at the low end of what we need.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's the weird thing though.

There was a Budget 6 weeks ago and this was never mentioned.

[glosterred]

What’s the betting that a certain individual who frequents this forum thinks this is wrong and shouldn’t be happening?

[Filo]

Here's the weird thing though.

There was a Budget 6 weeks ago and this was never mentioned.

Election year

[wilts rover]

Read the small print. It includes money given to UK & Saudi to boost their defences - so it's not 2.5% on BRITISH defences.

And also it's for 2030. Sunak has yet to announce a Defence Budget for 2025/26 - and where the money will come from.

[Dagenham Rover]

Sadly with some famous words " We have a problem Houston" Gawd help us if we really have to call on our Forces Personpower down to the bare bones, Equipment down to the bare bones, Outdated equipment, Squaddies buying their own ppk stuff. I was in 74 to 86 we had the manpower then but a lot of ppk stuff was crap Dms boots not fit for purpose trench foot reared its ugly head in the Falkland, so combat high boots came wow did you have to break them buggers in, Woollen gloves then superseded by NI  combat leather gloves (they were pretty decent and ive still got my pair issued in the 80's and wear them even now. Ammo made in India we called "curry powder " more misfires than a pissed up squaddie in a brothel. Yes it costs but in the present world sadly it needs keeping up to date. What is the point in decommissioning equipment when the replacement wont be ready for x number of years. I'd love to live in a world that requires nothing to be spent on defence but I'm afraid to say I'm not sure that dream will ever happen 

[tyke1962]

Sadly with some famous words " We have a problem Houston" Gawd help us if we really have to call on our Forces Personpower down to the bare bones, Equipment down to the bare bones, Outdated equipment, Squaddies buying their own ppk stuff. I was in 74 to 86 we had the manpower then but a lot of ppk stuff was crap Dms boots not fit for purpose trench foot reared its ugly head in the Falkland, so combat high boots came wow did you have to break them buggers in, Woollen gloves then superseded by NI  combat leather gloves (they were pretty decent and ive still got my pair issued in the 80's and wear them even now. Ammo made in India we called "curry powder " more misfires than a pissed up squaddie in a brothel. Yes it costs but in the present world sadly it needs keeping up to date. What is the point in decommissioning equipment when the replacement wont be ready for x number of years. I'd love to live in a world that requires nothing to be spent on defence but I'm afraid to say I'm not sure that dream will ever happen

Best way to ensure peace is to prepare for war .

[Sprotyrover]

Well we had the ‘Peace Dividend’ we didn’t milk it like Germany,France,Canada etc did and to be honest we have come out of it with 2 world class Aircraft Carriers, The Best Nuclear Hunter Killer Subs , the Best Air Defence Destroyers and the world beating Type 26 Frigate and Type 31 which is cheap but world class. What we haven’t done is look after the Lads and lasses so we struggle to recruit. Our Army has the best Heavy Tank and we are merrily re equipping our Apc force.
Airforce wise we are replacing our early block Typhoons and supplementing with F35 from the US, we are replacing our Apaches and chinooks.
On the whole we are in far better shape than the Germans or French, the Canadians are a joke
Back to the Navy thanks to Boris we have foundations to build 4/5 Frigates at once. The Yanks have put back their Frigate building programme to 2030 due to lack of facilities and lack of trained workforce.on the whole if we spend wisely and don’t pay any heed to the Woke Coffee Aunties at Whitehall we will have the second best military in the ‘Free World!
Before we criticise the Carriers blame Labour for no Catobar! But those ships are new and have a good 35/40 years in front of them and Catobar can be retrofitted.

[River Don]

Read the small print. It includes money given to UK & Saudi to boost their defences - so it's not 2.5% on BRITISH defences.

And also it's for 2030. Sunak has yet to announce a Defence Budget for 2025/26 - and where the money will come from.

Something like that. Apparently it would amount to something like 2.32% by 2030.

Not exactly an urgent war footing then. In reality he's just trying to write cheques for Starmer to cash.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Increasing is great news for the pockets of the very rich. I don't suppose it's possible there's been manipulating moves by folks to create this climate of fear? It's worked on most here for sure.

Not tying the UK foreign policy to by far the biggest war monger since WW2 might be one way of redirecting money to actual defence, not attack.

[Muttley]

The headline "£75 billion of extra defence spending" has been calculated using the assumption that the current annual expenditure is maintained in cash terms, rather than assuming that the defence spending as % of GDP is maintained at current levels (and therefore actual spend would increase as GDP increases over the years..

The actual increase is only £20 billion. But that doesn't sound as good as £75 billion.

https://twitter.com/BenZaranko/status/1782891401635627112

[wilts rover]

Well we had the ‘Peace Dividend’ we didn’t milk it like Germany,France,Canada etc did and to be honest we have come out of it with 2 world class Aircraft Carriers, The Best Nuclear Hunter Killer Subs , the Best Air Defence Destroyers and the world beating Type 26 Frigate and Type 31 which is cheap but world class. What we haven’t done is look after the Lads and lasses so we struggle to recruit. Our Army has the best Heavy Tank and we are merrily re equipping our Apc force.
Airforce wise we are replacing our early block Typhoons and supplementing with F35 from the US, we are replacing our Apaches and chinooks.
On the whole we are in far better shape than the Germans or French, the Canadians are a joke
Back to the Navy thanks to Boris we have foundations to build 4/5 Frigates at once. The Yanks have put back their Frigate building programme to 2030 due to lack of facilities and lack of trained workforce.on the whole if we spend wisely and don’t pay any heed to the Woke Coffee Aunties at Whitehall we will have the second best military in the ‘Free World!
Before we criticise the Carriers blame Labour for no Catobar! But those ships are new and have a good 35/40 years in front of them and Catobar can be retrofitted.

Thus does Sproty demonstrate he doesn't know what the word 'woke' means.

Thus does he also demonstrate he has no idea of all the problems that have beset the two 'world beating' aircraft carriers (without aircraft) since launching - the latest being a propellor falling off HMS Queen Elizabeth:

https://defence.nridigital.com/global_defence_technology_feb24/what_s_wrong_with_the_uk_s_queen_elizabeth-class_carriers

He also apparently has no idea of the state of the Trident sub fleet FOUR of which were out of commission recently forcing the other two to remain at sea twice as long as they should have. We may have the subs but we dont have anywhere to maintain them. HMS Victorious entered Devonport in May 2023 to begin a refit - and has yet to enter dry-dock.

https://warshipsifr.com/features/uk-nuclear-submarine-commitment-but-problems-go-very-deep/

We haven't been 'world beating' in anything since the days of sailing ships. And these problems of course will only get worse while fantastists like Sproty try and fool everyone that we are. Rather than admit issues and fix them.

[Sprotyrover]

Well we had the ‘Peace Dividend’ we didn’t milk it like Germany,France,Canada etc did and to be honest we have come out of it with 2 world class Aircraft Carriers, The Best Nuclear Hunter Killer Subs , the Best Air Defence Destroyers and the world beating Type 26 Frigate and Type 31 which is cheap but world class. What we haven’t done is look after the Lads and lasses so we struggle to recruit. Our Army has the best Heavy Tank and we are merrily re equipping our Apc force.
Airforce wise we are replacing our early block Typhoons and supplementing with F35 from the US, we are replacing our Apaches and chinooks.
On the whole we are in far better shape than the Germans or French, the Canadians are a joke
Back to the Navy thanks to Boris we have foundations to build 4/5 Frigates at once. The Yanks have put back their Frigate building programme to 2030 due to lack of facilities and lack of trained workforce.on the whole if we spend wisely and don’t pay any heed to the Woke Coffee Aunties at Whitehall we will have the second best military in the ‘Free World!
Before we criticise the Carriers blame Labour for no Catobar! But those ships are new and have a good 35/40 years in front of them and Catobar can be retrofitted.

Thus does Sproty demonstrate he doesn't know what the word 'woke' means.

Thus does he also demonstrate he has no idea of all the problems that have beset the two 'world beating' aircraft carriers (without aircraft) since launching - the latest being a propellor falling off HMS Queen Elizabeth:

https://defence.nridigital.com/global_defence_technology_feb24/what_s_wrong_with_the_uk_s_queen_elizabeth-class_carriers

He also apparently has no idea of the state of the Trident sub fleet FOUR of which were out of commission recently forcing the other two to remain at sea twice as long as they should have. We may have the subs but we dont have anywhere to maintain them. HMS Victorious entered Devonport in May 2023 to begin a refit - and has yet to enter dry-dock.

https://warshipsifr.com/features/uk-nuclear-submarine-commitment-but-problems-go-very-deep/

We haven't been 'world beating' in anything since the days of sailing ships. And these problems of course will only get worse while fantastists like Sproty try and fool everyone that we are. Rather than admit issues and fix them.

Wilts  stop being a Twit! We have only got four Ballistic Nuclear Missile subs , the Vanguard class!
As for the Carriers they like the Daring class Destroyers have had teething problems when they get retrofitted with Catobar they will be excellent!

[Iberian Red]

Oh dear.

[Dagenham Rover]

The end result is if anything kicks off we are in the proverbial poo at this point in time

[ravenrover]

I see today that Mr Harper claims that re nationalising railways will increase the number of Civil Servants to run the new organisation whilst their plans to reduce the number of Civil Servants were,  suddenly, to finance the Defence budget increase that they hadn't previousy said how they would finance
Not heard that before today

[BobG]

And Sproty also forgets that the Type 45 destroyers really could not, and some still cannot, work in warm seas because the design was so farcical that the u/s engines couldn't be changed out without cutting the ships in half! That's been a continuing process for years.  World class??

And, Sproty, if you could spot a typo, your arguments might have more sense. Yes. There are 4 Trident submarines. And yes. 2 of 'em were out of service at the same time. This imperils both the nuclear deterrent and the safety of the crews  of the remaining boats that are forced to remain at sea on greatly extended patrols.  Do you wanna see bored demotivated blokes in charge of all them nukes?? There's been nuclear sub sailors sacked in recent years for drug use on-board, for sexual offences and for being drunk!!

It's easy enough to check y'know...

World class? Hardly. Like everything else about this country, we think we are are a ton better than we are in reality. Post empire delusions of grandeur continue to blind an awful lot of folk to the reality.

BobG

[ravenrover]

But getting rid of a few hundred civil servants will put it right

[Sprotyrover]

And Sproty also forgets that the Type 45 destroyers really could not, and some still cannot, work in warm seas because the design was so farcical that the u/s engines couldn't be changed out without cutting the ships in half! That's been a continuing process for years.  World class??

And, Sproty, if you could spot a typo, your arguments might have more sense. Yes. There are 4 Trident submarines. And yes. 2 of 'em were out of service at the same time. This imperils both the nuclear deterrent and the safety of the crews  of the remaining boats that are forced to remain at sea on greatly extended patrols.  Do you wanna see bored demotivated blokes in charge of all them nukes?? There's been nuclear sub sailors sacked in recent years for drug use on-board, for sexual offences and for being drunk!!

It's easy enough to check y'know...

World class? Hardly. Like everything else about this country, we think we are are a ton better than we are in reality. Post empire delusions of grandeur continue to blind an awful lot of folk to the reality.

BobG

sorry Bob I didn’t say there were the most reliable I said Best as they are getting rid of a recess with a gym in it and fitting 24 more Missile launchers.
As for the nuclear ballistic missile Subs we are replacing them with the Dreanought class.
Re Drug abuse I can’t comment  I would assume that is a problem in all Navies, it’s a different Generation we are talking about.

[Sprotyrover]

How the times we live in have changed! 3 years ago quite a few posters on here would have been kicking and screaming about an increase in spending! Now it’s not enough!

[SydneyRover]

Times have changed sprot, that's the key