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Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 06, 2021, 04:41:03 pmLdrIn 2019, a majority of voters across the entire country voted for parties that were against the Brexit that was being lined up.You are focussing on a minority and saying Labour should have pandered to them. A bit of inconsistent logic going on there.And how many of them to use your phrase held their nose. Don’t make the assumption they voted for the party policies 100%
LdrIn 2019, a majority of voters across the entire country voted for parties that were against the Brexit that was being lined up.You are focussing on a minority and saying Labour should have pandered to them. A bit of inconsistent logic going on there.
Quote from: Ldr on June 06, 2021, 05:02:07 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 06, 2021, 04:41:03 pmLdrIn 2019, a majority of voters across the entire country voted for parties that were against the Brexit that was being lined up.You are focussing on a minority and saying Labour should have pandered to them. A bit of inconsistent logic going on there.And how many of them to use your phrase held their nose. Don’t make the assumption they voted for the party policies 100%Then take opinion polls on that precise topic. There was a large and consistent majority against Brexit throughout 2019.
Ldr.Labour has a massive problem on that score, as I've said repeatedly.The people who broadly support left wing economic policies should be Labour's constituency. But they split into two diametrically opposed cultural groups.25-30% are nationalist, socially conservatives. Mostly older. Mostly living in small, post Industrial towns.70-75% are socially liberal internationalists. Mostly younger. Many living in cities.Labour can only win if it appeals to both. But both sides appear determined to fight with each other. And of course, the Tories will pour petrol on those flames by stoking up Culture War issues.By the way, I don't know if I misunderstood your post, but I'm certainly not arguing that Labour's disaster in 2019 wasn't greatly due to Brexit. Of course it was. But not for the reasons that you and Tyke seem to think.
Tyke.You are focussing completely on a fraction of a fraction of the electorate. 25% of 40%. The number of Labour Leave supporters in early 2019.Go and look at that graph. See what happened in early 2019 when Corbyn tried doing exactly what you say. Go on. Go and look.Then come back and tell me how Labour were supposed to win an Election, or in fact, even survive, with that policy.Your self indulgence on this topic is just staggering.
Again BST you focus on Labour supporters, the focus needs to be elsewhere not on those who vote for you anyway
Tyke.When Labour adopted the policy that you suggest, they dropped to 18% in the polls.How many seats do you think they would have lost then?
SSI'm permanently bemused by the anger of people about the suggestion that we should have had a vote to find out what the population wanted. In the context that we ended up with a Brexit that we were told by the Leave campaign in 2016 would never happen. And that vote is sacrosanct.Never yet heard a sensible defence of that position.
Tyke.You have the evidence in front of you as to what would have happened.Ignoring that and insisting you are right is willfully blind and deaf indulgence. "I'm right and if I ignore any evidence to the contrary, I don't have to challenge my opinion."
SSI've given my two pennorth in detail. Yes Labour were hammered because of the Ref stance. They would have been totally destroyed without that stance.The problem is far more complicated than a simple right/wrong.
Keir is ready to 'sweat blood' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57848266