Is it time to......

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Maybe it does need a change in owner to just come in and shake things up off the pitch. A fair few people need to go and that’s before we get to the players where pretty much to a man we want shot of them.

A new owner might be attracted that we are rock bottom and in theory their money will go further.

Like Wrexham. They bought them because it's cheaper to get to the PL with them than buying someone like Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Wed.

That is true and one of the other major factors was the potential of North Wales with little competition around there (only Chester) and Wrexham historically had a bigger fan base.  They did their homework.

They wouldn't consider a club surrounded by 6 other clubs within 20 miles, as they know the potential is limited. Similar reasons why that American family took over at Carlisle having considered a number of other clubs.

[GazLaz]

Blunt and TB must have put together the strategy for coming out of Covid and the implications of that. We’ve spiralled since then. That strategy has paid a huge part in us being where we are. How can we not blame the owners??

[wilts rover]

Maybe it does need a change in owner to just come in and shake things up off the pitch. A fair few people need to go and that’s before we get to the players where pretty much to a man we want shot of them.

A new owner might be attracted that we are rock bottom and in theory their money will go further.

Like Wrexham. They bought them because it's cheaper to get to the PL with them than buying someone like Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Wed.

That is true and one of the other major factors was the potential of North Wales with little competition around there (only Chester) and Wrexham historically had a bigger fan base.  They did their homework.

They wouldn't consider a club surrounded by 6 other clubs within 20 miles, as they know the potential is limited. Similar reasons why that American family took over at Carlisle having considered a number of other clubs.

They rejected a lot of other potential clubs before deciding on Wrexham. Most of those other clubs are still looking for extra 'investment' (somebody to give their money away to them).

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/wrexham-fc-ryan-reynolds-football-league-b2336288.html

[Nudga]

Maybe it does need a change in owner to just come in and shake things up off the pitch. A fair few people need to go and that’s before we get to the players where pretty much to a man we want shot of them.

A new owner might be attracted that we are rock bottom and in theory their money will go further.

Like Wrexham. They bought them because it's cheaper to get to the PL with them than buying someone like Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Wed.

That is true and one of the other major factors was the potential of North Wales with little competition around there (only Chester) and Wrexham historically had a bigger fan base.  They did their homework.

They wouldn't consider a club surrounded by 6 other clubs within 20 miles, as they know the potential is limited. Similar reasons why that American family took over at Carlisle having considered a number of other clubs.

I know what you're saying but in my opening post I said about unlocking our potential.
We have a 300,000 population in metropolitan borough which has never really been tapped into.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Maybe it does need a change in owner to just come in and shake things up off the pitch. A fair few people need to go and that’s before we get to the players where pretty much to a man we want shot of them.

A new owner might be attracted that we are rock bottom and in theory their money will go further.

Like Wrexham. They bought them because it's cheaper to get to the PL with them than buying someone like Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Wed.

That is true and one of the other major factors was the potential of North Wales with little competition around there (only Chester) and Wrexham historically had a bigger fan base.  They did their homework.

They wouldn't consider a club surrounded by 6 other clubs within 20 miles, as they know the potential is limited. Similar reasons why that American family took over at Carlisle having considered a number of other clubs.

I know what you're saying but in my opening post I said about unlocking our potential.
We have a 300,000 population in metropolitan borough which has never really been tapped into.

It's not me you need to convince. If it's never really been tapped into, it would take a huge gamble for someone with the resources and patience and vision to build something, considering the competition around us. That's why JRs achievement was exceptional.

[i_ateallthepies]

It has been tapped into, for decades... Leeds; Wednesday to mention just two.

[drfchound]

Maybe it does need a change in owner to just come in and shake things up off the pitch. A fair few people need to go and that’s before we get to the players where pretty much to a man we want shot of them.

A new owner might be attracted that we are rock bottom and in theory their money will go further.

Like Wrexham. They bought them because it's cheaper to get to the PL with them than buying someone like Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Wed.

That is true and one of the other major factors was the potential of North Wales with little competition around there (only Chester) and Wrexham historically had a bigger fan base.  They did their homework.

They wouldn't consider a club surrounded by 6 other clubs within 20 miles, as they know the potential is limited. Similar reasons why that American family took over at Carlisle having considered a number of other clubs.

Baz, which six clubs within 20 miles of Doncaster are you including.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Maybe it does need a change in owner to just come in and shake things up off the pitch. A fair few people need to go and that’s before we get to the players where pretty much to a man we want shot of them.

A new owner might be attracted that we are rock bottom and in theory their money will go further.

Like Wrexham. They bought them because it's cheaper to get to the PL with them than buying someone like Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Wed.

That is true and one of the other major factors was the potential of North Wales with little competition around there (only Chester) and Wrexham historically had a bigger fan base.  They did their homework.

They wouldn't consider a club surrounded by 6 other clubs within 20 miles, as they know the potential is limited. Similar reasons why that American family took over at Carlisle having considered a number of other clubs.

Baz, which six clubs within 20 miles of Doncaster are you including.

Well excuse my geography and counting but you know where I'm coming from. It's there in the article wilts posted, although who knows whether there might be someone out there willing to take a punt at some point and I guess sooner or later we'll find out.

[drfcsteve]

I’ve never understood this 300,000 people point. In the second tier playing attractive football we still couldn’t fill our 15,000 seat stadium. The people of Doncaster just either aren’t interested or are already Leeds/Wednesday/Man U fans.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I’ve never understood this 300,000 people point. In the second tier playing attractive football we still couldn’t fill our 15,000 seat stadium. The people of Doncaster just either aren’t interested or are already Leeds/Wednesday/Man U fans.

Exactly. And any prospective buyer who does their research will look into that. Of course, there maybe exceptions but generally as we have seen, buyers find the club rather than visa versa.

[Nudga]

I’ve never understood this 300,000 people point. In the second tier playing attractive football we still couldn’t fill our 15,000 seat stadium. The people of Doncaster just either aren’t interested or are already Leeds/Wednesday/Man U fans.

In my opinion it takes longer than 4 or 5 seasons in the championship to build the fan base further.
Forget about those already supporting the clubs you mentioned, we aren't going to attract them. We need to keep the kids and teenagers coming back and they want to see winning football.
We need at least ten years in the championship, and not just avoiding relegation every season either.

[DonnyOsmond]

Burnley's population is a 3rd of ours and they do alright with some big clubs around them.

[Nudga]

Burnley's population is a 3rd of ours and they do alright with some big clubs around them.

Exactly this and I was going to use Burnley as a prime example.

Blackburn and Darwin has a population of 150,000 and they do OK.
Jack Walker was obviously a fan, similar to JR and look what he did for them.
A shame JR doesn't have TB money eh.

[mushRTID]

The club has always been up for sale .
For the right buyer.

But it's never been advertised widely as such.

Every football club is up for sale.
For the right buyer.

Yep.

As Ive said before, selling a football club isn't like selling a house, or selling a typical business. Most clubs are up for sale, after all owning a loss making business isn't an ideal or attractive proposition for anybody.

We do have some things going for us though, we're debt free, a decent stadium (no need to invest too much there), a community club which helps when attracting sponsors etc., and a business model that generates significant income. We just need to make sure that we don't attract sharks or asset strippers.

And that's why TB has always said he would sell up if the right people came along, why wouldn't he? He doesn't need to massage his ego, he gets no direct benefit from owning the club, he doesn't run around telling everybody he's Chairman of a football club and enjoying the hospitality of the EFL, FA, etc at all their monthly shindigs.

There are agents in football who deal in buying and selling of clubs, much like they deal with players, and of course we're on their radar (who isn't) but as yet nothing beyond casual enquiries. So, as TB said at the MTO, he doesn't need a financial partner, but that doesn't mean he'd turn one down if somebody offered.

Can I ask about these casual enquiries please?

How regular are they, do they request a sell price?Or just any intention to sell?

Who are the buyers (local, foreign etc).

I’m just curious how a casual enquiry goes and how frequent they are.

Could our asking price be stopping a casual enquiry becoming a firm interest?

[drfcsteve]

I doubt there’s an asking price as such, anyone interested would work out how much they thought we were worth to them and offer that, then it’s up to the board whether they accept or not.

Need to be careful because in our position I bet there’s a few vultures circling.

[ravenrover]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

[Avsuptem]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

This precipitates some horrible negative thoughts.
What if our owners get fed up with tbe whole thing and recoup investment losses by selling off the training ground?
I dont know of anything to stop them doing so other than altruism.

[silent majority]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

No we don't own them, but we did sign a 99 year lease for them, which is as good as.

Why do you think we got interest from a dodgy hedge fund when the lease arrangement was first announced?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

No we don't own them, but we did sign a 99 year lease for them, which is as good as.

Why do you think we got interest from a dodgy hedge fund when the lease arrangement was first announced?

Genuine question. How did they see that as a money making opportunity? Did ownership of a long term lease give the possibility of building around the site?

[ravenrover]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

No we don't own them, but we did sign a 99 year lease for them, which is as good as.

Why do you think we got interest from a dodgy hedge fund when the lease arrangement was first announced?

Surely they couldn't develop the ground or area surrounding so what was their interest?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

We know full well there are owners who are looking for a return in their investment, often through financing the club to the hilt plus using all sorts of mechanisms like leasing back stadiums. Clubs who have gone up and down from the PL using parachute payments as security for further loans etc. Then, there's fewer genuine philanthropists who invest their own money and are in it for the long term becoming part or the community.

We already have one and although we can debate the shortcomings of TBs strategy and overall 'intetest' there's plenty of clubs who would love to have our ownership. Granted, it's time limited and sooner or later, we may be begging for someone of TBs ilk to come along.

We keep going around in the same circles of debate, so is it not better to influence and work with what we have?

It's understandable the frustrations over strategy etc  Can anyone clearly see what TBs current strategy is over and above what he said at Meet the Owners?

TBs just taken a more hands on role as Chairman, but what's going to change on a day to day basis? What is TB doing to hold McCann to account over results and recruitment? Are all our eggs in the McCann basket?

Is it time for someone to dig deeper and ask those burning questions?

In theory, this should be the shadow board holding TB, GB and McCann to account and reporting back on a regular basis.

I'm sure if we're sensible about it, we can put together a list of probing questions to put to the board?

[silent majority]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

No we don't own them, but we did sign a 99 year lease for them, which is as good as.

Why do you think we got interest from a dodgy hedge fund when the lease arrangement was first announced?

Genuine question. How did they see that as a money making opportunity? Did ownership of a long term lease give the possibility of building around the site?

Well that's exactly it.

That's what they considered valuable, the land that surrounds the stadium was what drew them in. They weren't interested in the football club, not at all.

And for those who keep banging on about TB not being a football fan how do you imagine a hedge fund based in Belize would perform in that regard?

[waldron40]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

No we don't own them, but we did sign a 99 year lease for them, which is as good as.

I believe the lease was signed by Terry Bramhall and Dick Watson on behalf of Doncaster Rovers Ltd, 7 days before Club Doncaster was registered at Companies House. The lease also includes the training ground at Cantley.
Since then the Club Doncaster family has expanded considerably.
Where does "ownership" of the lease lie now?

[ravenrover]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

No we don't own them, but we did sign a 99 year lease for them, which is as good as.

Why do you think we got interest from a dodgy hedge fund when the lease arrangement was first announced?

Genuine question. How did they see that as a money making opportunity? Did ownership of a long term lease give the possibility of building around the site?

Well that's exactly it.

That's what they considered valuable, the land that surrounds the stadium was what drew them in. They weren't interested in the football club, not at all.

And for those who keep banging on about TB not being a football fan how do you imagine a hedge fund based in Belize would perform in that regard?

Sorry SM but why the need to buy a football club to get their hands on land the club doesn't own? I know they would have no interest in the Club but the land around doesn't belong to the club so why shell out on DRFC just to get access to the leased land around, how would our lease help in any development plans, as you can guess I'm no business man

[silent majority]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

No we don't own them, but we did sign a 99 year lease for them, which is as good as.

I believe the lease was signed by Terry Bramhall and Dick Watson on behalf of Doncaster Rovers Ltd, 7 days before Club Doncaster was registered at Companies House. The lease also includes the training ground at Cantley.
Since then the Club Doncaster family has expanded considerably.
Where does "ownership" of the lease lie now?

No, that's not correct at all.

The lease has been held by the Foundation, the charitable arm of the club, and always has.

[silent majority]

Circling for what purpose? The "vultures" normally circle with a view to cherry pick, we don't own the stadium or the land around why would buyers be intersted in outr players and possibly training ground. Lets face it we are not an attractive proposition for any money men

No we don't own them, but we did sign a 99 year lease for them, which is as good as.

Why do you think we got interest from a dodgy hedge fund when the lease arrangement was first announced?

Genuine question. How did they see that as a money making opportunity? Did ownership of a long term lease give the possibility of building around the site?

Well that's exactly it.

That's what they considered valuable, the land that surrounds the stadium was what drew them in. They weren't interested in the football club, not at all.

And for those who keep banging on about TB not being a football fan how do you imagine a hedge fund based in Belize would perform in that regard?

Sorry SM but why the need to buy a football club to get their hands on land the club doesn't own? I know they would have no interest in the Club but the land around doesn't belong to the club so why shell out on DRFC just to get access to the leased land around, how would our lease help in any development plans, as you can guess I'm no business man

The club, through the foundation, own the lease. Get the club, get the lease, get the land.


That's why the VSC took out an ACV on the land and stadium.

[Upton Rover]

I’ve never understood this 300,000 people point. In the second tier playing attractive football we still couldn’t fill our 15,000 seat stadium. The people of Doncaster just either aren’t interested or are already Leeds/Wednesday/Man U fans.

Going to a football match nowadays is quite expensive, and when you pay to watch shite week in week out, you get to the point we’re some have to say enough is enough on spending hard earned money, despite it being the club you love.

[waldron40]

No, that's not correct at all.

The lease has been held by the Foundation, the charitable arm of the club, and always has.

Thanks for the information. According to Companies House records, there is a charge registered for the stadium and land dated 13 Sep 2013 against Doncaster Rovers Limited (while the company was still known as Patienceform Limited).

[silent majority]

No, that's not correct at all.

The lease has been held by the Foundation, the charitable arm of the club, and always has.

Thanks for the information. According to Companies House records, there is a charge registered for the stadium and land dated 13 Sep 2013 against Doncaster Rovers Limited (while the company was still known as Patienceform Limited).

I don't know about that. It could well have been, and more likely, that the foundation came under Doncaster Rovers Ltd (Patienceform) at that time.

But what I do know is I sat through every single council meeting, held at the Mansion House, where the decisions were taken with regard to setting up the lease for the Foundation. It certainly had nothing to do, directly that is, with either TB or DW.

If you remember the stadium at the time was under the control of the SMC.

[waldron40]

I don't know about that. It could well have been, and more likely, that the foundation came under Doncaster Rovers Ltd (Patienceform) at that time.

You are correct. The foundation was known as Doncaster Rovers FC Community Sports & Education Foundation until Jun 2014.