Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: rtid88 on September 24, 2016, 10:54:06 pm
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Not his biggest fan by any stretch, but a vote against the corrupt and one sided Right wing media is enough for me. What a horrid country we live in. Sure BST and his ex left wing mate Bob will love this post!!
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A vote against the right-wing media? The last thing they would have wanted was for Jezza to lose!
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Are you telling me every media stream in the country has not been horrifically against Corbyn for months for no reason other than the fact he is against the social norm??
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Of course they have and its been embarassing to see the depths they sunk to in order to do it. A bigger win than the last leadership election and won convincingly in Members, registered supporters and affiliated supporters. You can only imagine what the % would have been before they purged Corbyn supporters and outpriced them from voting.
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Unfortunately Wes to be elected you need to convince most of the electorate not most of your party's supporters.
To get bigger gates at the Keepmoat we need to attract people that aren't currently going plus keep existing fans attending.
In my eyes and a lot of traditional Labour voters that I know there is no feeling that Corbyn could provide a decent government.
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Are you telling me every media stream in the country has not been horrifically against Corbyn for months for no reason other than the fact he is against the social norm??
No, but they didn't want him to lose the leadership of the Labour party either. If you think he's getting it bad now, wait till you see what they'll save up for him until just before the next General Election. He's such an easy target to smear.
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:lol: would be my take on it. Labour doing it's favourite thing, talking to its small band of followers not the country. Destined to lose.
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And what is it 'the country' would like to hear that Jeffery Corbyn isn't saying then? More tax cuts?
To keep repeating what I said on several occassions, 33% - that is one third - of 'the country' didn't see anything worthwhile in any of the parties to vote for them in 2015.
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People will warm to Corbyn in time. Ultimately he wants a fairer society and has a sound and just economic plan to deliver it. The numbers aren't significant - they are all individuals, real people, (some more devoted than others) who will campaign hard for labour over the coming years.
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People will warm to Corbyn in time.
He's had a year, how long does it take?
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He's had two leadership elections in a year. How many more should he face?
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A year where his own politicians have been too busy plunging knives into his back to really push his policies and the good it will do for the very needy in society. I genuinely believe that a united Labour with the thousands upon thousands of new highly energised members could make a significant difference.
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You're dead right Wes. It would speed the end of the Labour Party as any meaningful force. I don't suppose you're old enough to remember the early 1980's? We've been here before. It led, directly, to 4 consecutive Tory governments. Henry Ford was wrong. History can teach us things - if people are willing to learn. If you are old enough to remember those times, then a few minutes thinking about cause and effect would be time very well spent. Politics is the art of the possible. It is most defintely not the art of what you, or I, or anybody else, might want.
And, just out of interest, why the personal attacks? Is debate not allowed in the new Corbynista world?
Cheers
BobG
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There was a poignant slogan painted on the gable end of Crossland way shops many year ago it went something like the "From another 5 years of Tory Hell,May the good Lord preserve us"!
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You are correct Bob, Henry Ford was wrong, very wrong. The man who denied that Germany had invaded Poland, until several days after it happened, as it was 'made up by Jewish bankers', whose company made the military equipment for that regime and whose politics were such that the 'pre-war German leader' had his portrait in his office and regarded him as the leader of the facisits in America, is certainly not someone who you should be listening to on the question of history, particuarly on the history and future policy of the Labour Party. Unless it is in tandem with what they should be fighting against. And there is still plenty of evidence of that, 80 Years on from the Battle of Cable Street.
That's why 'the left' is relevant - and why your denial of it is dangerous. Because the right is still there and more dangerous now than at any time - since the 1980's.
You can pick and choose your periods of history if you wish, ignore the declining support for Blair and Brown at each election after 1997 if you wish. But that is a lot more relevant than Clause 4 and renationalising the mines and steelworks. The Winter of Discontent isn't relevant anymore, Austerity, Brexit and mass immigration/refugees are.
Where would be if Keir Hardie and Clement Atlee had thought like you eh? They didn't think it was impossible to make a socialist cause possible?
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Hi Wilts
I'm not, definitely, saying the left is neccesarily wrong. I agree with quite a lot of what Corbyn says. But like I keep saying, politics is the art of the possible. And Jeremy Corbyn is destined to lead the Labour Party nowhere except, in governmental terms at least, oblivion. So what point is there in supporting JC if he has zero chance of ever implementing anything at all? I'd rather support someone with major flaws as far as my view of politics goes, if he has a chance of actually doing one or two things I agree with.
The right wing in this country has always been dangerous. Of course it has. Keeping that danger in check is not achieved by allowing a fantasist, offering countless open goals to the press and the opposition, to lead the Labour Party. It's achieved by the Labour Party making itself electable. That means appealing to people who don't support the current leadership. Even if JC appeals to 100% of left wing activists and young radicals, he ain't going to form a government. He is going to be pilloried, roasted over an open fire, by the press - unless they play the clever game of roasting him just enough to ensure he loses the election without ensuring he loses his job as well. He's the best thing that's happened to the Tory Party since Michael Foot. The Tories will try to keep him in his job. Thats's where, and when, the right wing in this country becomes so damn dangerous. Theyve got a generation in power ahead unless something very remarkable happens.
Bob
PS I wont even bother to comment on your selective use of stats out of context. That's shameful.
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Corbyn seems to be a nice enough guy, there's no doubt he thinks differently to most politicians. I do genuinely feel he wants to make peoples lives better by changing the way things are done. He is just fighting against such a tide of corruption he can't succeed against.
There are too many who don't want things to change. They have a lovely niche carved for themselves and will fight to retain the priveleges and money that they have.
This will just run on and on, his opponents will go through the many speeches he has produced and keep picking bits out that suit their agenda to remove him.
People are so used to the leader who says one thing does another. Countless spin doctors waffling rubbish. The submarines without missiles, whether it's true or not will continue to be used against him. It makes him unelectable as well as other things they beat him with.
He strikes me as a man with lots of ideas but not decisive enough to make them reality. He is a dreamer who wants to make a perfect world, only it's too late.
He just will not be elected into government, the sad thing is that doesn't seem to be his objective. I think being prime minister would terrify him. Nowhere to hide when you have the top job.
So sad that there is a tory government there for the taking, and not one leader capable of taking advantage.
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There's the confines of history and then the responsibility of the individual. I am not going to compromise my individual vote (as measly as it it) to grease the inevitability of some broad historical shifts. I'll be voting for what I believe is right as an individual, as I always have done.
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How many on here still believe he will revive the Coal mining Industry?
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People will warm to Corbyn in time. Ultimately he wants a fairer society and has a sound and just economic plan to deliver it. The numbers aren't significant - they are all individuals, real people, (some more devoted than others) who will campaign hard for labour over the coming years.
A sound economic plan, with ideas like this? Archaic would be the word. The same old big bad capitalism line and increased taxes on those successful. Not what I would call sound.
Just how much do we think it would cost to be successful manufacturing wise?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37468209
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The economy has been in a prolonged period of stagnation for going on 7 years now. It is sensible economic policy to intervene in large manufacturing industries. When we do it with banks, or by printing money, people don't bat an eyelid. The costs of not doing so are far greater than actually doing it.
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How many on here still believe he will revive the Coal mining Industry?
A brief moment of googling would have solved that dilemma for you shag.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34398851 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34398851)
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Labour are paying the price for having no quality in there ranks who wanted to challenge him...With this vote they have condemed themselves to a long period of opposition but as Corbyn himself has admitted "winning isn't everything"...The reality is that there are 5 million people in the electorate who have left wing views and to win a election there needs to be 13m,he will never convert enough people...
As a now floating voter (and I'm the type of person who needs convincing to win) How can any Labour member expect me to vote for someone whose own MP'S,the only people who work with him on a daily basis don't think he's good enough...Copps goes on about sensible economic policy??? Nobody has a clue what Labours policies are anymore not even themselves...I am crying out for a party to relate too but boy it will never be him........
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The economy has been in a prolonged period of stagnation for going on 7 years now. It is sensible economic policy to intervene in large manufacturing industries. When we do it with banks, or by printing money, people don't bat an eyelid. The costs of not doing so are far greater than actually doing it.
Your sensible is my expensive. It is impossible to compete and achieve living wage etc, impossible in so many areas.
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The economy has been in a prolonged period of stagnation for going on 7 years now. It is sensible economic policy to intervene in large manufacturing industries. When we do it with banks, or by printing money, people don't bat an eyelid. The costs of not doing so are far greater than actually doing it.
Of course they can intervene in industry (assuming they get into power of course) because of Brexit. Had they tried to do so while still in the EU the Commission would have been over them like a cheap suit.
Maybe goes some way to explaining why JC was such a reluctant Remainer.
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The economy has been in a prolonged period of stagnation for going on 7 years now. It is sensible economic policy to intervene in large manufacturing industries. When we do it with banks, or by printing money, people don't bat an eyelid. The costs of not doing so are far greater than actually doing it.
Of course they can intervene in industry (assuming they get into power of course) because of Brexit. Had they tried to do so while still in the EU the Commission would have been over them like a cheap suit.
Maybe goes some way to explaining why JC was such a reluctant Remainer.
I did think this also. But they still have a lot of trade barriers that they would struggle to get past, it can't be a half way house.
Ironically their strategy again appears to be spend and borrow. That can work but does the electorate see it that way?
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It's investment. Investment is when you know the pay-off's are jobs and increased economic activity. And it becomes sensible when you realise we have a housing crisis that we can build ourselves out of, we have renewable energy resources on our doorsteps, we have a highly skilled workforce and are world-leaders in most scientific endeavors. Why wouldn't you invest?
I see also Labour has just this minute pledged to introduce a living wage into law. Another great step forward.
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And who is going to do this investment Copps...Most people are employed by company's with 0-25 employee's...These company's haven't ever seen a penny of outside investment ever!!! They struggle to compete with low wages elsewhere like Poland,Romania,China as it is..Just how are they going to pay a £10 living wage??? Nobody wants to explain that in the Labour party..it's pure fantasy.....
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This is not just a labour party thing WC. The tory party also want a living wage by 2020, but have pegged their minimum amount at £9 (to be decided by the government) - which will be lower than what it currently is for London now. What McDonnell has said is that he will introduce a living wage into law and the best guesses for the projected amount by 2020 will be around £10. So a living wage is probably coming sooner or later whether you like it or not. (In essence, what the tory party mean is a jumped up minimum wage, the labour party actually want a living wage)
Attempts to put amounts on it, in any case, are missing the point (and politically motivated). It's a living wage, it's the amount (which should be calculated independently of government) that covers the basic costs of living. It's not perfect, but it seems the very least of what any person in society should expect.
People had the same arguments about the introduction of the minimum wage but it had no negative effects on employment.
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It's investment. Investment is when you know the pay-off's are jobs and increased economic activity. And it becomes sensible when you realise we have a housing crisis that we can build ourselves out of, we have renewable energy resources on our doorsteps, we have a highly skilled workforce and are world-leaders in most scientific endeavors. Why wouldn't you invest?
I see also Labour has just this minute pledged to introduce a living wage into law. Another great step forward.
The living wage inflation generator, plus how will we pay for this? As wc says it will hit companies hard.
As for investment those points you mentioned are tiny absolutely tiny. This also adds to the question of do we really have an issue? More people have jobs than ever before, yet it's claimed there's a major issue?
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This is not just a labour party thing WC. The tory party also want a living wage by 2020, but have pegged their minimum amount at £9 (to be decided by the government) - which will be lower than what it currently is for London now. What McDonnell has said is that he will introduce a living wage into law and the best guesses for the projected amount by 2020 will be around £10. So a living wage is probably coming sooner or later whether you like it or not. (In essence, what the tory party mean is a jumped up minimum wage, the labour party actually want a living wage)
Attempts to put amounts on it, in any case, are missing the point (and politically motivated). It's a living wage, it's the amount (which should be calculated independently of government) that covers the basic costs of living. It's not perfect, but it seems the very least of what any person in society should expect.
People had the same arguments about the introduction of the minimum wage but it had no negative effects on employment.
When wages go up do you think businesses increase their wage bill or drop profit margins? No they cut hours or increase their prices, it doesn't actually benefit anyone does it?
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The minimum wage has been increasing steadily for years. As I said, a living wage of £9 in 2020 wouldn't be that far off an increasing minimum wage.
There is conclusive evidence to show that the minimum wage introduction had very little effect on employment. There is also a consensus among most level-headed people that it has very little effect on prices or any other economic measure, in fact. I'm not an expert but that is as far as I know.
For me it's not about producing an economic change is about the suitable standard that anyone employed should expect. There are countries/cities that have a relatively high minimum wage and maintain high employment levels. That is surely what we should aspire to?
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It had very little effect on employment Copps because the vast majority of businesses were paying above the minimum wage to start with,the fsb at the time stated that 77% of small companies paid roughly the minimum wage or more when it was implemented..Check the figures on manufacturing in this county?? Anybody who buys anything in quantity goes to China or eastern Europe were there labour costs are roughly a third of ours..Political party's cant just keep spending private sector money without giving something back...A £10 living wage will do nothing but send the welfare bill through the roof because it cant be paid for...I'm not politically motivated for any party but it's simply not achievable without destroying whats left...
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At £7.20 we're already paying our workers way more than Eastern Europe or China but were surviving aren't we? It's not about about nations relative to each other, its about workers relative to how much it costs to live.
I didn't know that figure about small businesses paying above the minimum wage but you'd also find something similar now. Take warehouses/distribution centers, for example. A massive employment sector in this country. Many will already be paying workers over £8 (and over £9 for some shifts).
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At £7.20 we're already paying our workers way more than Eastern Europe or China but were surviving aren't we? It's not about about nations relative to each other, its about workers relative to how much it costs to live.
I didn't know that figure about small businesses paying above the minimum wage but you'd also find something similar now. Take warehouses/distribution centers, for example. A massive employment sector in this country. Many will already be paying workers over £8 (and over £9 for some shifts).
Well no because where does the majority of our manufacturing happen? We can't compete...
The recent uplift saw staff cuts that is a fact.
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How many on here still believe he will revive the Coal mining Industry?
A brief moment of googling would have solved that dilemma for you shag.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34398851 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34398851)
Jezza came to Doncaster last year and promised a full house at the Trades and Labour club that he would re open the Pits. He then jumped on a train and after receiving a bollocking from his 'green tree hugging' Lgb Trotskyite scum bag acolytes he rescinded what he had said before he stepped of the train at Kings Cross,he is what Adolf Hitler would call a"Coffee Aunty".
He seems to have enthralled all of the sweet young hippies who want to run the country, but who are afraid of hard work. but those of us who are Graduates of the school of hard knocks have seen through him from day one,how can he expect people to unite and follow him when he is nothing but a serial naysayer who has defied his own party whip over 500 times!
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Just as long as you're comfortable in the the knowledge you're not more obsessed with Corbyn than the people who actually support him. For my own part I have no great interest in the bloke beyond what he plans to do for this country.
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Just as long as you're comfortable in the the knowledge you're not more obsessed with Corbyn than the people who actually support him. For my own part I have no great interest in the bloke beyond what he plans to do for this country.
I m not interested in his plans for the country they will never materialise but what he Is doing is ensuring that there will be no credible oposition party for many years to come.
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Just as long as you're comfortable in the the knowledge you're not more obsessed with Corbyn than the people who actually support him. For my own part I have no great interest in the bloke beyond what he plans to do for this country.
But you still think his economic policies are positive when in the real world it's unworkable.
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I will just keep repeating the consensus of near enough every piece of research conducted on the matter - done within reasonable limits, it is workable.
Beyond the populist rhetoric of £10, Mike Ashley and Philip Green I do believe, yes, that the economic plan is broadly workable, tangible and would benefit people.
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I will just keep repeating the consensus of near enough every piece of research conducted on the matter - done within reasonable limits, it is workable.
Beyond the populist rhetoric of £10, Mike Ashley and Philip Green I do believe, yes, that the economic plan is broadly workable, tangible and would benefit people.
What research is there that says it is? Granted of course it could work but why are most clothes made abroad? Multiply that up further....
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Anyone who wants to do away with our Nuclear deterrent when there crackpots like the one in Russia and North Korea that are flexing their muscles on a weekly basis will never get my vote. Add to that he wants to sit down and have tea and buscuits with ISIS and other terrorist organisations!
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Anyone who wants to do away with our Nuclear deterrent when there crackpots like the one in Russia and North Korea that are flexing their muscles on a weekly basis will never get my vote. Add to that he wants to sit down and have tea and buscuits with ISIS and other terrorist organisations!
Hmm, not seen the news reports from today's conference speeches when the Shadow Defence Secretary reaffirms the party's commitment to Trident then Filo?
As for the ISIS comment - could you please direct us to where 'he' has said that? Unless you are referring to Owen Smith of course who did, sort of, say that, which is pointless as he lost?
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I vote that we should ask Sarah Champion to have a quiet word with Jezza she'll knock some sense into him!
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Anyone who wants to do away with our Nuclear deterrent when there crackpots like the one in Russia and North Korea that are flexing their muscles on a weekly basis will never get my vote. Add to that he wants to sit down and have tea and buscuits with ISIS and other terrorist organisations!
Hmm, not seen the news reports from today's conference speeches when the Shadow Defence Secretary reaffirms the party's commitment to Trident then Filo?
As for the ISIS comment - could you please direct us to where 'he' has said that? Unless you are referring to Owen Smith of course who did, sort of, say that, which is pointless as he lost?
The Labour Party hierarchy re wrote Clive Lewis's speach and no they didn't commit to replacing Trident...'Weasel Words '!
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You'd best tell Channel 4 their footage was wrong then Sporty.
And the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37472042
And The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/26/jeremy-corbyn-puts-aside-objections-to-renewing-trident
you can do the rest of the news outlets as you appear to need to do the reading. CND outrage at Labour Trident renewal would be a good place to start.
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Add to that he wants to sit down and have tea and buscuits with ISIS and other terrorist organisations!
Really Filo, is that a fact? Or have you been reading the Daily Mail again?
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The same old big bad capitalism line and increased taxes on those successful.
Maybe. Or maybe we should just look at stopping case like this from happening...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/10/russian-oil-magnate-alexander-zhukov-uk-tax-arrangements-raise-concerns
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Personally I have no respect for the guy at all the same guy that invited members of the provisional Ira into the houses of parliament , the same guy that sat and sympathatised with its murderers that got shot trying to blow a police station up. all easily Google able
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Add to that he wants to sit down and have tea and buscuits with ISIS and other terrorist organisations!
Really Filo, is that a fact? Or have you been reading the Daily Mail again?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-says-there-could-be-benefits-to-opening-diplomatic-back-channels-with-isis-a6817181.html
He even wants to let the Argies have a say in the Falklands, British servicemen died protecting the British overseas territory, and he's happy to give it away, rendering their sacrifice pointless
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Anyone who wants to do away with our Nuclear deterrent when there crackpots like the one in Russia and North Korea that are flexing their muscles on a weekly basis will never get my vote. Add to that he wants to sit down and have tea and buscuits with ISIS and other terrorist organisations!
Which of North Korea's missiles can reach us, again?
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Obviously Copps you've never had to run a business and watch your contracts disappear over Eastern Europe for peanuts purely on labour cost..Which is were most of British companies buying in quantity purchase there goods now due to price,check the uk manufacturing decline figures..It's unworkable and will just be the normal Labour way of looking after workers rights giving them more with absolutely no plan on how to pay for it all,leading to huge borrowing again...
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Anyone who wants to do away with our Nuclear deterrent when there crackpots like the one in Russia and North Korea that are flexing their muscles on a weekly basis will never get my vote. Add to that he wants to sit down and have tea and buscuits with ISIS and other terrorist organisations!
Which of North Korea's missiles can reach us, again?
Thats the point, no one knows do they?
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One of my customers has calculated the cost of the living wage introduction to be £130m.
In 200 of their smaller stores where they can't cut staff numbers to save money they are selling/closing them. O.k. it's an isolated example but it's robust.
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You'd best tell Channel 4 their footage was wrong then Sporty.
And the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37472042
And The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/26/jeremy-corbyn-puts-aside-objections-to-renewing-trident
you can do the rest of the news outlets as you appear to need to do the reading. CND outrage at Labour Trident renewal would be a good place to start.
Wilts what they did was prevent Lewis from Committing Labour to the future Trident project. by deleting the last line of his speach they have left the door open for a change of policy when it suites them.
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Why is the answer so obvious to you when polls of British public opinion consistently show it isn't for them? What gives you the confidence you're right?
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Are people seriously surprised that a lifelong ally of CND, who voted against the UK acquiring Nuclear weapons at every possible point in his political career and campaigned against Trident has been consistent when elected leader of his party?
She'd Utd lose appeal.
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Are you telling me every media stream in the country has not been horrifically against Corbyn for months for no reason other than the fact he is against the social norm??
No, but they didn't want him to lose the leadership of the Labour party either. If you think he's getting it bad now, wait till you see what they'll save up for him until just before the next General Election. He's such an easy target to smear.
Yep because thats all they are good at making shit up and smearing.
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Are you telling me every media stream in the country has not been horrifically against Corbyn for months for no reason other than the fact he is against the social norm??
No, but they didn't want him to lose the leadership of the Labour party either. If you think he's getting it bad now, wait till you see what they'll save up for him until just before the next General Election. He's such an easy target to smear.
Yep because thats all they are good at making shit up and smearing.
The problem is they don't have to make stuff up.
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I shudder to imagine the next onslaught unelectable, Jeremy Jew hating, terrorist sympathiser, scraggy haired, sixth form politics, trotskyite scum will face and it's effects on anyone with half a brain.
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And who is going to do this investment Copps...Most people are employed by company's with 0-25 employee's...These company's haven't ever seen a penny of outside investment ever!!! They struggle to compete with low wages elsewhere like Poland,Romania,China as it is..Just how are they going to pay a £10 living wage??? Nobody wants to explain that in the Labour party..it's pure fantasy.....
Exactly why it's fantasy. Ito common sense that if you lift the bar up ato the bottom that goods will become dearer for the " poor " - increased costs means small businesses going to the wall and of course that £10 p.h doesn't go as far ! It's common sense that we need to keep the businesses alive and healthy especially when we come out of the EU .
I'M a ' floating ' voter too but I know it's madness to peddle the ideal of this and other policies / intentions.
We need an opposition that will look at things sensibly, that have MPs & leaders that inspire confidence sadly that's lacking and hence we have a media and idealogically driven right wing of the Tories dictating our return to the 60s .
My heart bleeds for this country especially as a committed Europhile ; here we are at a crossroads for this nation and we are led by politicIans that haven't got a fecking clue what they are doing so they just follow the 3 nutcases in charge of Brexit.
How I hate that fecking word and all those that voted for it . Whilst our country harks back to the good old days of the British Empire .....the rest of the world moves on .
Who can I vote for , who can many of the 16,000,000 vote for ?
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The minimum wage has been increasing steadily for years. As I said, a living wage of £9 in 2020 wouldn't be that far off an increasing minimum wage.
There is conclusive evidence to show that the minimum wage introduction had very little effect on employment. There is also a consensus among most level-headed people that it has very little effect on prices or any other economic measure, in fact. I'm not an expert but that is as far as I know.
For me it's not about producing an economic change is about the suitable standard that anyone employed should expect. There are countries/cities that have a relatively high minimum wage and maintain high employment levels. That is surely what we should aspire to?
OK but increasing the minimum wage or 'living ' wage makes this country uncompetitive at a time when we need to be the MOST competitive.
If businesses make less profit in all likelihood they drop payroll numbers/hours or pay less into the Exchequer and struggle to invest .
That's the problem with Labour policies they are oh so simple to them but in reality they DON'T work.
As for us having a nuclear deterrent without nuclear weapons/ someone that would use them .....it's just ridiculous .
I'm sick of hearing about the 500k membership , you need to attract X 25-30 times that to stand a chance of forming a government . New and not old idealogies are needed not just from Labour but all our politicians.
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Anyone who wants to do away with our Nuclear deterrent when there crackpots like the one in Russia and North Korea that are flexing their muscles on a weekly basis will never get my vote. Add to that he wants to sit down and have tea and buscuits with ISIS and other terrorist organisations!
Which of North Korea's missiles can reach us, again?
By the time we have renewed Trident there should be more than enough. They believe they can reach the USA and Japan already . Check out their recent tests and there are quite a few.
Corbyn needs to get real. We have enemies in Russia and N. Korea already.
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3 little old ladies summed it up for me who I overheard in Donny Market,"what he goona do about all them foreigners taking our benefits and hospital beds?"
Welljezza summed himself up nicely, he will open the doors and direct more money to the areas where they will live to help me settle!
2 million more UKIP voters won over!
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This el' be the same UKIP who support immigration then, I suppose?
Take it you've actually read their policy documents.
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Here's how I see the zeitgeist of our current age.
Every single major political party in this country (including UKIP) supports mass immigration into the country. Why? Because every half-intelligent person knows the measly economic growth we've experienced over the last 8 years is being propped up by immigrants. Most of our public services and higher education institutions would collapse without them. Every sector and job for which indigenous people are untrained or unwilling to do is being filled by migrants.
What these half intelligent people (i.e the politicians) are doing to varying degrees is playing on the fears of the ignorant. And that's why I suggested going to read UKIPs literature because you wouldn't for a moment get the impression this is a party who wants an end to mass immigration. Because they don't. Do not get mistaken by some nutter with a UKIP badge on his twitter profile tweeting things like 'send the buggers back'.
So what actually is being offered? Well, Labour want to tackle the social problems that are (widely) percieved to be caused by immigrants. The conservatives want to increase punitive measures to force indigenous people to do jobs that migrants are filling. UKIP want to beef up the border patrol and essentially introduce increased profiling to get a 'better quality' of migrant. All of this appeasement.
So it's spin your moral compass and pick your poison time. Just don't go getting yourself into something you thought was one thing and turned out to be another.
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Too late CIM far too many have already done just that and a 32 year low for the £ is a sign of the mayhem to come.
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It's getting to the stage where the only hope is that teresa may is somehow different from other tory leaders. Labour i don't see as a challenge to the tories any more, unless a leader appears from somewhere that can unite the party together.
I'm hoping that may lives upto her promise of ''brexit being brexit''. i'm hoping she is kinder to the poor and disabled. I'm hoping that she will encourage our country to start manufacturing more of our own goods!.
I'm hoping to see houses built with the infrastructure to deal with those extra people occupying those areas. I'm hoping for the cruelty meted out by the tories to stop.
I'm hoping for the north & south divide to close a bit. I'm hoping that our country helps others abroad in need, but only to a degree, i want a government that prioritises it's own people first.
I'm hoping that eventually free prescriptions come in for working people as well as the unemployed, if the scottish prescriptions are free why aren't ours?.
I'm hoping that she creates government that doesn't demonise the unemployed, putting working against unemployed, as has been the case for years now.
I'm hoping that we have a government that doesn't let more people come to our country than we can cope with. But also one who recognises that these people who are here and contributing are welcome!.
The foreign people are the new unemployed, in that they are turning people against them as the main problem our country faces. They do this through our press and programmes aired on our tv's.
Let hate get into your heart and ukip become a viable alternative. That isn't our country our country on the whole mixes together all different communities.
The country needs to be run fairer where people get a decent wage for a decent days work. The unemployed need to stop being looked down on as scroungers, many are not!.
Foreign people need to be taken at face value a good person is good no matter the colour race or religion. The government has to control who comes in and the numbers.
Until the government get the country on an even footing we can't help as many others as we would want.Get our country in order, get it functioning properly then you can help other countries, our people must be priority to start off with.
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I'm hoping to see houses built with the infrastructure to deal with those extra people occupying those areas. Sorry, not going to happen.
I'm hoping for the cruelty meted out by the tories to stop.Sorry, not going to happen.
I'm hoping for the north & south divide to close a bit. Sorry, not going to happen.
I'm hoping that our country helps others abroad in need, but only to a degree, i want a government that prioritises it's own people first. Sorry, not going to happen.
I'm hoping that eventually free prescriptions come in for working people as well as the unemployed Sorry, not going to happen.
I'm hoping that she creates government that doesn't demonise the unemployed Sorry, not going to happen.
The country needs to be run fairer where people get a decent wage for a decent days work. Sorry, not going to happen.
The unemployed need to stop being looked down on as scroungers, many are not! Sorry, not going to happen.
Until the government get the country on an even footing Sorry, not going to happen.
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Now that UKIP have shot themselves in the foot I just wonder what's holding back Theresa May from calling an early General Election and getting a working majority?
The Lib Dems are showing signs of recovery - although as a result of centre-left frustration with Labour - but they will need a year or two to build up any kind of momentum (small "m" note!)
Like Gordon Brown in 2007, she may regret not going to the country when she had a favourable wind.
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I would be going to the country now to RB,She has announced a brexit timetable so that was a stumbling block that has at least some clarification..Labour of course have there staunch left wing Corbyn membership but the rest of the country don't and never will buy into his madness and they couldn't buy a Scottish vote...It would be a landslide victory for her...Probably the biggest in a very long time....
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And these new Tory MP's you have all elected - what is their take on Brexit going to be? Are they going to be hard right or centrist? Will they support May - or challenge her?
Lots of things to consider before a PM would call a General Election.
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Whatever she does I suspect her performance today may have put the final nail in the Labour Party coffin for a good while. They're lucky UKIP are as mad as the Labour Party. But if the smug female gets even a part of the working class on her side, she'll be unstoppable and the Labour Party will be truly unelectable.
Bob
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And these new Tory MP's you have all elected - what is their take on Brexit going to be? Are they going to be hard right or centrist? Will they support May - or challenge her?
Lots of things to consider before a PM would call a General Election.
There always are lots of pros and cons. For example, I've always been convinced that Gordon Brown opted not to call a GE in the autumn of 2007 because he was concerned about possible Labour losses to the SNP in Scotland. Ironically they would have been nothing on the scale of last year's cataclysm.
I'd have thought the Brexit stance of the Tory Party would have been low down her list of concerns. The party at large is probably more Eurosceptic than the Parliamentary Party, and any new MPs are likely to reflect that.
If I was in May's kitten heels I'd be more concerned about holding a GE in Spring 2020 when we will have a different relationship with the EU and any post-Brexit turbulence is likely to be being felt.
Also there is a distinct possibility that the Lib Dems might be much stronger by then. And unlike a Corbyn-led Labour might pose a real threat to Tory-held seats.
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Talk about a divided party, eh...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37572377
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SO his new team is being announced. Not much surprise so far.
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He's pushed out a good 'un though.
BobG
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Actually agree Bob.
As someone who voted Corbyn and a Doncaster Central constituent, Rosie Winterton does a fantastic job here and has always been swift when I've wrote to her. I recently wrote to her regarding my concerns within the Labour Party, particularly those that have been outspoken against the elected leader. She responded in an honourable way. I don't know her views on Jeremy Corbyn, nor does it matter particularly. I'd rather have someone hold their views back and get on with their jobs than spend more time criticising their party than the opposition like Flint has for the last 6 months. Nobody is forced to like their boss, however they are expected to do their job and Rosie Winterton does.
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Agreed Wes. She's been a bit of a star ever since she was first elected - and that's quite a while back now. Even more impressive, to me anyway, is that after reading your praise of her, she's managed to impress two people, us, who are, I reckon, quite a long way apart politically. That takes skill and talent. She really must be a star :)
Cheers Wes
Bob
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And these new Tory MP's you have all elected - what is their take on Brexit going to be? Are they going to be hard right or centrist? Will they support May - or challenge her?
Lots of things to consider before a PM would call a General Election.
There always are lots of pros and cons. For example, I've always been convinced that Gordon Brown opted not to call a GE in the autumn of 2007 because he was concerned about possible Labour losses to the SNP in Scotland. Ironically they would have been nothing on the scale of last year's cataclysm.
I'd have thought the Brexit stance of the Tory Party would have been low down her list of concerns. The party at large is probably more Eurosceptic than the Parliamentary Party, and any new MPs are likely to reflect that.
If I was in May's kitten heels I'd be more concerned about holding a GE in Spring 2020 when we will have a different relationship with the EU and any post-Brexit turbulence is likely to be being felt.
Also there is a distinct possibility that the Lib Dems might be much stronger by then. And unlike a Corbyn-led Labour might pose a real threat to Tory-held seats.
I think you're right about the timing if she waits a) Despite their real lack of leadership the Lib/Dems will be a credible opposition in the shires and backwaters b) Labour might improve c) ukip become organised d) The mumbling from her own Eurosceptics become louder.
If I was her I would call an election as soon as possible.
Evidence of the growing Lib/Dems membership is there to see and there are 16,000,000 votes to fight for who are looking for a centre/ left party . They have the structure and probably the funding now as and when they need it .
Question is can they attract some of the Europhiles from both the Tory party and disaffected MPs within the Labour party oh and marry them together in a common cause.
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Although I'm pretty certain the Tories will hold Witney in the forthcoming by-election, the size of the Lib Dem vote will be interesting.
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Seems they are chucking everything at it and of course it is call me Dave's old constituency. Are all the colonels and blue rinse brigade going to be enamoured by what they've heard this week ?
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The SW Labour Party are actively encouraging all and sundry to proselytise the new labour message on the streets of Witney....
BobG
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Till they lose then it'll be Jeremys fault obviously.
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Although I'm pretty certain the Tories will hold Witney in the forthcoming by-election, the size of the Lib Dem vote will be interesting.
I was saying?
The Lib Dems increased their vote share quite dramatically in a constituency where they have never done very well. (There is a residual Labour vote around Witney itself that usually guarantees Labour second place.)
May (pardon the pun) have scuppered thoughts of a GE in early 2017.
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And it looks very much as though there is going to be another by-election in a Tory held seat.
The Government has declared for a Third Runway at Heathrow. Zac Goldsmith said he would fight a by-election in Richmond Park if they did. So stand by for developments.
Goldsmith will obviously want the by-election to be a referendum on the Third Runway. But the constituency voted heavily for Remain. Could there be a Brexit Dimension for the Lib Dems to exploit?
Also LDs are the main opposition in Richmond. More promising territory for them than Witney.
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Definitely will be a by election in Richmond Park. Goldsmith has applied for the Chiltern Hundreds.
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A man of his word then. Unlike our despised and despicable Foreign Secretary.
BobG
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A man of his word then. Unlike our despised and despicable Foreign Secretary.
BobG
Boris is a man of his word! It's just that his word is a movable feast! lol
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Aye. And he's got far too many of them too.
(That's words as well as feasts - the incoherent fat bas**rd)
BobG
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Reminds me of a put down I once actually came up with in one of my very very few creative moments. I was giving a fairly informal early afternoon presentation, but one know-it-all who had clearly lunched too well and who loved the sound of his own voice was constantly interrupting with streams of uninformed and not particularly relevant rubbish. I said something along the lines of 'it's not that he is a man of many words, it's more that he uses the ones he knows rather often'.
It had the desired effect.