Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Filo on February 11, 2020, 09:47:38 am
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If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail
https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc
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What did the lad do?
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If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail
https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc
This what happens when you give a coward the tools and means to strike an unarmed person and then hide behind his badge !!” This the UK we voted for ?
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What did the lad do?
It does n’t matter what he did, the Copper struck him on the head from behind, that blow could have killed the lad, you can hear the crack in the video
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The lad is lucky to be alive. Attacking someone in the head from behind with a weapon without giving the other person chance to defend themselves. None of us would see daylight again this decade. Absolutely disgusting.
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He could have been running around stabbing people. So what did he do?
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He was having a fight with a Wednesday fan I think
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He could have been running around stabbing people. So what did he do?
Hearing a lot of rumours on Twitter (shock, horror) one that popped up was him supposedly throwing objects at Police.
How true that is, I don't know. What I do know is that the Coppers face is now all over Twitter after someone managed to get a clear snap of it.
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Is the wednesday fan ok? Anyone got a longer YouTube clip?
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Is the copper ok?
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Is the copper ok?
Probably out of a job but as far as I know, he's ok.
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None of us know what had gone on before someone started filming.
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It’s now with the IOPC, so they will decide the outcome.
It’s particularly disappointing given all the hard work we’ve done with SYP this last 12 months.
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He was having a fight with a Wednesday fan I think
It sticks out like a sore thumb that none of what happened before to provoke that reaction from the copper was shown. If anybody says they only started filming it from when the clip started I won't believe them.
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None of us know what had gone on before someone started filming.
It does n’t matter what has gone on before this, the copper should not target the head unless he feels his life is in danger, it clearly was n’t because like a coward he blindsided the lad
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None of us know what had gone on before someone started filming.
It does n’t matter what has gone on before this, the copper should not target the head unless he feels his life is in danger, it clearly was n’t because like a coward he blindsided the lad
From what I could make out, the lad was going towards someone else, away from the copper. If you were the copper and thought you possibly saw a knife in the hand of someone who had already been fighting as he went towards an unarmed person, what would you have done in order to protect the life of the unarmed person?
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None of us know what had gone on before someone started filming.
It does n’t matter what has gone on before this, the copper should not target the head unless he feels his life is in danger, it clearly was n’t because like a coward he blindsided the lad
From what I could make out, the lad was going towards someone else, away from the copper. If you were the copper and thought you possibly saw a knife in the hand of someone who had already been fighting as he went towards an unarmed person, what would you have done in order to protect the life of the unarmed person?
Glyn, we don’t often agree do we but you are thinking as i was.
We also don’t know whether the policeman intended to hit the bloke on the head.
It isn’t crystal clear is it.
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Surely you take out the legs if that's the case? You don't lay into someone's head from behind with enough force to kill them?
Some police are just thugs with a badge who use football matches as a chance to prove how hard they are. I've been walking away from the KM many times and seen police provoking fans of both sides to inflame situations.
If the kid was that much of a threat, he'd have been arrested surely? The 47-year-old man was, the 16-year-old wasn't. We're less safe with violent psychopaths like this wearing uniform, not more.
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My goodness such opinion on something when no one was there or knows the full details
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It’s now with the IOPC, so they will fudge the outcome.
It’s particularly disappointing given all the hard work we’ve done with SYP this last 12 months.
FTFY :ohmy:
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My goodness such opinion on something when no one was there or knows the full details
Well I know more than just about anybody, and there is so much detail not being divulged from both sides at this moment in time, and for all the right reasons.
As I stated earlier it’s with IOPC and we should wait for them to do their work.
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None of us know what had gone on before someone started filming.
It does n’t matter what has gone on before this, the copper should not target the head unless he feels his life is in danger, it clearly was n’t because like a coward he blindsided the lad
From what I could make out, the lad was going towards someone else, away from the copper. If you were the copper and thought you possibly saw a knife in the hand of someone who had already been fighting as he went towards an unarmed person, what would you have done in order to protect the life of the unarmed person?
I would have smacked his hand or the knife with the baton not his head from behind.
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...It’s particularly disappointing given all the hard work we’ve done with SYP this last 12 months.
Which 'we' is this? The FSA? The VSC? Rovers?
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There is no indication he had a knife he was having a scrap with another fan, arrest him yes but way to far smacking him on the head
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...It’s particularly disappointing given all the hard work we’ve done with SYP this last 12 months.
Which 'we' is this? The FSA? The VSC? Rovers?
It’s all of those.
I chair the SYP Independent Advisory Group. The participants are SYP, BTP, the clubs themselves along with supporter reps.
It’s been mentioned on here a few times.
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There is no indication he had a knife he was having a scrap with another fan, arrest him yes but way to far smacking him on the head
You have no idea if there was any indication or not.
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Ah yes. Every young lad or lady who has grown up wanting to be a police officer has done it for any of many reasons...Could it be to solve cirmes, be a pillar of the community, maybe work in armed sections, help rid the streets of drugs in narcotics divisions.....Or....Look after and babysit young chavs or grown men who act like chavs every Saturday.
A knuckle dragger or soon to be knuckle dragger got whacked, these vermin ruin many a Saturday for many people.
They'll be an independent enquiry and if the officer done wrong let's hope he does get the sack as any of us would. From this small snippet of a video not one person can tell the full story. So shall we all get off our high horses. Scargill isn't around anymore grandads you don't have to hate the police at every second you get. .
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None of us know what had gone on before someone started filming.
It does n’t matter what has gone on before this, the copper should not target the head unless he feels his life is in danger, it clearly was n’t because like a coward he blindsided the lad
From what I could make out, the lad was going towards someone else, away from the copper. If you were the copper and thought you possibly saw a knife in the hand of someone who had already been fighting as he went towards an unarmed person, what would you have done in order to protect the life of the unarmed person?
Glyn, we don’t often agree do we but you are thinking as i was.
We also don’t know whether the policeman intended to hit the bloke on the head.
It isn’t crystal clear is it.
Without a doubt he intended to hit him on the head
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None of us know what had gone on before someone started filming.
It does n’t matter what has gone on before this, the copper should not target the head unless he feels his life is in danger, it clearly was n’t because like a coward he blindsided the lad
From what I could make out, the lad was going towards someone else, away from the copper. If you were the copper and thought you possibly saw a knife in the hand of someone who had already been fighting as he went towards an unarmed person, what would you have done in order to protect the life of the unarmed person?
Glyn, we don’t often agree do we but you are thinking as i was.
We also don’t know whether the policeman intended to hit the bloke on the head.
It isn’t crystal clear is it.
Without a doubt he intended to hit him on the head
Did he?
It isn’t so clear to me.
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Should behave himself , only saw half the video , we will see a lot more of this with all the knife crime on the streets
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...It’s particularly disappointing given all the hard work we’ve done with SYP this last 12 months.
Which 'we' is this? The FSA? The VSC? Rovers?
It’s all of those.
I chair the SYP Independent Advisory Group. The participants are SYP, BTP, the clubs themselves along with supporter reps.
It’s been mentioned on here a few times.
That's why I was asking, as you're involved across a lot of things, and I don't read every thread on this board, so was interested which 'we' it was.
When you say the 'supporters reps' is that reps of the supporters groups of each South Yorkshire side as well as The FSA?
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None of us know what had gone on before someone started filming.
It does n’t matter what has gone on before this, the copper should not target the head unless he feels his life is in danger, it clearly was n’t because like a coward he blindsided the lad
From what I could make out, the lad was going towards someone else, away from the copper. If you were the copper and thought you possibly saw a knife in the hand of someone who had already been fighting as he went towards an unarmed person, what would you have done in order to protect the life of the unarmed person?
Glyn, we don’t often agree do we but you are thinking as i was.
We also don’t know whether the policeman intended to hit the bloke on the head.
It isn’t crystal clear is it.
Without a doubt he intended to hit him on the head
Without a doubt you don't know why he thought he had to.
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If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail
https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc
You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.
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...It’s particularly disappointing given all the hard work we’ve done with SYP this last 12 months.
Which 'we' is this? The FSA? The VSC? Rovers?
It’s all of those.
I chair the SYP Independent Advisory Group. The participants are SYP, BTP, the clubs themselves along with supporter reps.
It’s been mentioned on here a few times.
That's why I was asking, as you're involved across a lot of things, and I don't read every thread on this board, so was interested which 'we' it was.
When you say the 'supporters reps' is that reps of the supporters groups of each South Yorkshire side as well as The FSA?
Yes it’s reps from all the supporter groups at SY clubs, safety officers from those clubs, and of course Police Officers connected to football in SY including match commanders, DFO’s, and the football lead from SYP. We also have BTP and local media.
The FSA don’t have an official role at the SY IAG but it was expected that I would chair given my experience with these matters. Amanda, FSA faircop does have an official role at other IAG’s.
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All I can say is that there was an extremely aggressive attitude shown by the SYP following Saturday's game the like I've not witnessed for many a long year .
I take the point the game can be a difficult game to police and not helped by the redevelopment of the town centre which means fans of both clubs are walking at the side of the railway together after the game .
Even so the police simply added to the situation and increased tensions and hostility by their aggressive approach .
Batons were raised towards Barnsley supporters with not a Wednesday fan in sight for simply walking on the road , the pavements were jam packed as you'd imagine following a game that attracted over 17k .
The attack by the PC on the 16 year old didn't surprise me having witnessed the SYP at work myself .
I'm a fair minded bloke and appreciate the SYP had a difficult job last saturday but I have to say they got it totally wrong and simply added to the difficulties .
Extremely unimpressive .
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Whilst we are quick to point out the failings of the police, how about we also start looking at the the unacceptable behaviour shown in society.
Whilst I would never condone authoritarian brutality to anybody, if the lad hadn’t been there causing a public disturbance and potentially endangering innocent members of the public, he wouldn’t have been in the situation in the first place to be hit.
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If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail
https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc
You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.
I have no idea what the context of this event is.
But if you watch that video and say that the copper hit the lad while he was rolling around on the floor fighting, I can see why you struggle to reach sensible conclusions on everything else we talk about Sproty.
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If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail
https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc
You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.
I have no idea what the context of this event is.
But if you watch that video and say that the copper hit the lad while he was rolling around on the floor fighting, I can see why you struggle to reach sensible conclusions on everything else we talk about Sproty.
You know what BST, sproty didn’t actually say that the policeman hit the bloke while they were rolling around on the floor.
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If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail
https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc
You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.
I have no idea what the context of this event is.
But if you watch that video and say that the copper hit the lad while he was rolling around on the floor fighting, I can see why you struggle to reach sensible conclusions on everything else we talk about Sproty.
You know what BST, sproty didn’t actually say that the policeman hit the bloke while they were rolling around on the floor.
Perhaps you should go back and read this line from his post
“ how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting”
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If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail
https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc
You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.
I have no idea what the context of this event is.
But if you watch that video and say that the copper hit the lad while he was rolling around on the floor fighting, I can see why you struggle to reach sensible conclusions on everything else we talk about Sproty.
You know what BST, sproty didn’t actually say that the policeman hit the bloke while they were rolling around on the floor.
Perhaps you should go back and read this line from his post
“ how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting”
I did read it, two or three times.
He said exactly what you said he did but I think it was a generalisation rather than talking about this specific case.
I say that because the blow to the head was administered before they fell to the floor.
It isn’t clear after that whether any other hits were made with the baton.
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It must just be me but I can't see a blow actually being struck in that video because there's a woman in the way. Am I looking in the wrong place?
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Hound.
It seems an odd decision to suddenly insert a sub-clause which generalises when the rest of the post before and after that line was about the specific incident in question.
If he'd said " In general, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting? But yes, in this case, the copper clearly smacked that lad round the back of the head when he was stood up, and not fighting" it would have made more sense.
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BST, that isn’t the way I read sprotys post.
However, your post suggested that sproty had said that the policeman had hit the hooligan while they were rolling around on the floor.
Very clearly sproty did not say that had happened.
Your post intimated that he did say that.
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SYP-What a surprise!
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It’s always difficult to comment on these things if you were not actually there. I suspect a full video showing the lead up to these events would make interesting viewing.
That said, a head strike with a baton is a very serious matter.
Police are trained about trauma zones on the human body. In fact, the companies that supply the batons product a chart which you can look at if you google “monadnock baton chart. “
The whole human head is what is known as a red zone. What that means in reality, is any strike to it should reflect the fact that the officer fears for his own life or that of another, in the moments leading up to when the head strike was dealt.
Any use of force has to be justified and proportional to the threat posed. This is enshrined in law.
the use of force shown in this clip will need justifying and will be under serious scrutiny already by the IPCCC, I have no doubt.
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BST, that isn’t the way I read sprotys post.
However, your post suggested that sproty had said that the policeman had hit the hooligan while they were rolling around on the floor.
Very clearly sproty did not say that had happened.
Your post intimated that he did say that.
Hound.
I don't like pedantry, but if we're being pedantic, I did NOT say that Sproty said that was what had happened in that case. I said "If you watch that video and say..."
You criticise me for claiming Sproty said something that he didn't strictly say. And your evidence for that comes from you reading something into my post that I didn't strictly say!
If Sproty wasn't suggesting that the lad was rolling on the floor fighting, then fine. I'm more than happy to accept that. But if that's the case, I've no idea why he raised the point about rolling on the floor fighting, in the middle of a post and a thread about a specific incident in which the lad who was hit was clearly NOT rolling on the floor fighting when he was hit. At the very least it's an odd non-sequitur.
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Let’s call it a draw then. 👍
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Heh.
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Let me be the arbitrator here. I think Sproty was replying to those who stated that a police officer should NEVER strike someone on the head, and was suggesting a scenario where it might be unavoidable.
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Crikey Steve, I have just conceded a missable putt to BST so that we call it a draw.
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'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'
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Sorry to cause all of the controversy,I was generalising,I did mention that you do not see what was happening prior to the blow being struck. I myself misread BST's reply to my post, And was a little surprised that he was critical but hey we are all Rovers aren't we?
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'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'
Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.
The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.
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'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'
Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.
The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.
But the general public would probably agree with your actions
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'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'
Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.
The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.
But the general public would probably agree with your actions
Of course they would but the police are the ones enforcing these rules so they should have to adhere to them as well.
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The general public would probably agree with the death penalty for cyclists, doesn't make them right.
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'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'
Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.
The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.
And if the policeman thought the perpetrator was about to do the same to someone else as had just been done to him...what do you think is his first duty as you see it? Protect the next possible victim or worry about how hard he has to hit the perpetrator in order to stop him?
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'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'
Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.
The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.
Isn't it the case that as long is the person is flattened inside your house you are OK but if say he was climbing out of a wi ndow when you whscked him and fell outside you would be in trouble? Seem to remember a cade a few years back when that happened
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In that case, he would be deemed to be making an escape so you would not be acting in self-defence.
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Unless any of us are serving police officers, or legal experts, then none of us will know what the law is, nor the “rules of engagement” under which the police operate. Clearly it seems logical that hitting someone on the head could be unreasonable, and if this incident has gone beyond what is acceptable in legal terms then there should be repercussions.
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There is no difference between rules of engagement and the law.
I was in the army when we had rules of engagement in places such as Northern Irel@nd , the gulf, Bosnia and Afghanistan. In short, if you are shot at, you can shoot back. Actions of soldiers in conflict are covered by the Geneva convention.
Police are governed in law regarding use of force. The Criminal justice act, the police and criminal evidence act and common law all makecreference to use of force being “reasonable” to the circumstance.
The well known case of the Norfolk farmer shooting a burglar in the back as he fled from the scene of his crime being the most recent high profile case that springs to my mind. Yes, the farmer had been burgled, but he was safe and the burglar was fleeing. He was no longer in defence of himself or his property.
The officers account in this event and the key witnesses will paint the picture which will determine if this head strike was reasonable, proportionate and justified.
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Crickey, just checked and the Tony Martin case was 1999. Seems like yesterday. It still divides opinion. Originally convicted of murder, then changed to manslaughter on appeal got 3 yrs.
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But the point is, who on here actually knows the correct details in law.?
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'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'
Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.
The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.
But the general public would probably agree with your actions
Of course they would but the police are the ones enforcing these rules so they should have to adhere to them as well.
I think my point got a little lost, but take the Tony Martin case. Yes he shot them as they were walking away, but the general public would probably agree with his actions. Terrorised for months if I remember the case righlty, burgled many times, took positive action, got sent down for murder on a technicality that they were walking away.
Similar here IF , and I know it's a huge IF , it comes out that this lad was attacking coppers then really do you care that he got smashed? As I said on my previous post "hooligans" are utter vermin who just waste stretched police resources every Saturday at 3pm. Police want to solve crimes. Not babysit idiots who can't handle their pop
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But the point is, who on here actually knows the correct details in law.?
What specifically idm do you want to know?
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The quote I made was from the Chairman of South Yorkshire Police Federation, who will be supporting his members from IOPC (formally IPCC - who a few years ago I applied for a job with, which very fortunately I didn't get)
All the cops involved will have been wearing BWV - body worn video for the uninitiated- which will give a true picture of what actually happened, rather than a 45 second clip on social media
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But the point is, who on here actually knows the correct details in law.?
What specifically idm do you want to know?
I don’t..
Just raising the point that probably very few on here would know. Therefore folks give opinions on what should and should not be allowed to happen, and what is “right” to do. What folks feel is “right” to do, may not necessarily be within the law. The general public isn’t trained to legal rules of engagement, unlike police and the armed forces..
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But the point is, who on here actually knows the correct details in law.?
What specifically idm do you want to know?
I don’t..
Just raising the point that probably very few on here would know. Therefore folks give opinions on what should and should not be allowed to happen, and what is “right” to do. What folks feel is “right” to do, may not necessarily be within the law. The general public isn’t trained to legal rules of engagement, unlike police and the armed forces..
I do.
But as I know nothing about this incident, other than a 45 second video I've seen on FB (which told me nothing) I wouldn't comment on it. Other than quoting the SYP Federation Chairman
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This is going nowhere ...