SYP Brutality at Football

[VivaRovers]

...It’s particularly disappointing given all the hard work we’ve done with SYP this last 12 months.

Which 'we' is this? The FSA? The VSC? Rovers?

It’s all of those.

I chair the SYP Independent Advisory Group. The participants are SYP, BTP, the clubs themselves along with supporter reps.

It’s been mentioned on here a few times.

That's why I was asking, as you're involved across a lot of things, and I don't read every thread on this board, so was interested which 'we' it was.

When you say the 'supporters reps' is that reps of the supporters groups of each South Yorkshire side as well as The FSA?

[Glyn_Wigley]

None of us know what had gone on before someone started filming.

It does n’t matter what has gone on before this, the copper should not target the head unless he feels his life is in danger, it clearly was n’t because like a coward he blindsided the lad

From what I could make out, the lad was going towards someone else, away from the copper. If you were the copper and thought you possibly saw a knife in the hand of someone who had already been fighting as he went towards an unarmed person, what would you have done in order to protect the life of the unarmed person?

Glyn, we don’t often agree do we but you are thinking as i was.
We also don’t know whether the policeman intended to hit the bloke on the head.
It isn’t crystal clear is it.

Without a doubt he intended to hit him on the head

Without a doubt you don't know why he thought he had to.

[Sprotyrover]

If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail

https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc

You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.

[silent majority]

...It’s particularly disappointing given all the hard work we’ve done with SYP this last 12 months.

Which 'we' is this? The FSA? The VSC? Rovers?

It’s all of those.

I chair the SYP Independent Advisory Group. The participants are SYP, BTP, the clubs themselves along with supporter reps.

It’s been mentioned on here a few times.

That's why I was asking, as you're involved across a lot of things, and I don't read every thread on this board, so was interested which 'we' it was.

When you say the 'supporters reps' is that reps of the supporters groups of each South Yorkshire side as well as The FSA?

Yes it’s reps from all the supporter groups at SY clubs, safety officers from those clubs, and of course Police Officers connected to football in SY including match commanders, DFO’s, and the football lead from SYP. We also have BTP and local media.

The FSA don’t have an official role at the SY IAG but it was expected that I would chair given my experience with these matters. Amanda, FSA faircop does have an official role at other IAG’s.

[tyke1962]

All I can say is that there was an extremely aggressive attitude shown by the SYP following Saturday's game the like I've not witnessed for many a long year .

I take the point the game can be a difficult game to police and not helped by the redevelopment of the town centre which means fans of both clubs are walking at the side of the railway together after the game .

Even so the police simply added to the situation and increased tensions and hostility by their aggressive approach .

Batons were raised towards Barnsley supporters with not a Wednesday fan in sight for simply walking on the road , the pavements were jam packed as you'd imagine following a game that attracted over 17k .

The attack by the PC on the 16 year old didn't surprise me having witnessed the SYP at work myself .

I'm a fair minded bloke and appreciate the SYP had a difficult job last saturday but I have to say they got it totally wrong and simply added to the difficulties .

Extremely unimpressive .

[colincramb]

Whilst we are quick to point out the failings of the police, how about we also start looking at the the unacceptable behaviour shown in society.

Whilst I would never condone authoritarian brutality to anybody, if the lad hadn’t been there causing a public disturbance and potentially endangering innocent members of the public, he wouldn’t have been in the situation in the first place to be hit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail

https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc

You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.

I have no idea what the context of this event is.

But if you watch that video and say that the copper hit the lad while he was rolling around on the floor fighting, I can see why you struggle to reach sensible conclusions on everything else we talk about Sproty.

[drfchound]

If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail

https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc

You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.

I have no idea what the context of this event is.

But if you watch that video and say that the copper hit the lad while he was rolling around on the floor fighting, I can see why you struggle to reach sensible conclusions on everything else we talk about Sproty.

You know what BST, sproty  didn’t actually say that the policeman hit the bloke while they were rolling around on the floor.

[Filo]

If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail

https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc

You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.

I have no idea what the context of this event is.

But if you watch that video and say that the copper hit the lad while he was rolling around on the floor fighting, I can see why you struggle to reach sensible conclusions on everything else we talk about Sproty.

You know what BST, sproty  didn’t actually say that the policeman hit the bloke while they were rolling around on the floor.

Perhaps you should go back and read this line from his post


“ how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting”

[drfchound]

If a member of the public did this they would be looking a jail

https://youtu.be/g_hZkvzbmAc

You should have been a Judge not a Taxi driver! My first thought is where is the rest of the video, the part that shows the build up to the blow being struck.dont be surprised when the true facts emerge and our injured party was in the act of attacking another person, Police officers are trained to aim for the upper thigh or next option the area between the shoulder blade and neck, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting is beyond me.no doubt there will be other film in the hands of the Police and as SM stated the IOPC will investigate.quite interesting though to observe some of the comments on this thread from our Forum members.

I have no idea what the context of this event is.

But if you watch that video and say that the copper hit the lad while he was rolling around on the floor fighting, I can see why you struggle to reach sensible conclusions on everything else we talk about Sproty.

You know what BST, sproty  didn’t actually say that the policeman hit the bloke while they were rolling around on the floor.

Perhaps you should go back and read this line from his post


“ how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting”

I did read it, two or three times.
He said exactly what you said he did but I think it was a generalisation rather than talking about this specific case.
I say that because the blow to the head was administered before they fell to the floor.
It isn’t clear after that whether any other hits were made with the baton.

[Pancho Regan]

It must just be me but I can't see a blow actually being struck in that video because there's a woman in the way. Am I looking in the wrong place?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

It seems an odd decision to suddenly insert a sub-clause which generalises when the rest of the post before and after that line was about the specific incident in question.

If he'd said " In general, how you are supposed to do this when persons are rolling around fighting? But yes, in this case, the copper clearly smacked that lad round the back of the head when he was stood up, and not fighting" it would have made more sense.

[drfchound]

BST, that isn’t the way I read sprotys post.

However, your post suggested that sproty had said that the policeman had hit the hooligan while they were rolling around on the floor.

Very clearly sproty did not say that had happened.
Your post intimated that he did say that.

[Axholme Lion]

SYP-What a surprise!

[normal rules]

It’s always difficult to comment on these things if you were not actually there. I suspect a full video showing the lead up to these events would make interesting viewing.
That said, a head strike with a baton is a very serious matter.
Police are trained about trauma zones on the human body. In fact, the companies that supply the batons product a chart which you can look at if you google “monadnock baton chart. “
The whole human head is what is known as a red zone. What that means in reality, is any strike to it should reflect the fact that the officer fears for his own life or that of another, in the moments leading up to when the head strike was dealt.
Any use of force has to be justified and proportional to the threat posed. This is enshrined in law.
the use of force shown in this clip will need justifying and will be under serious scrutiny already by the IPCCC, I have no doubt.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST, that isn’t the way I read sprotys post.

However, your post suggested that sproty had said that the policeman had hit the hooligan while they were rolling around on the floor.

Very clearly sproty did not say that had happened.
Your post intimated that he did say that.

Hound.

I don't like pedantry, but if we're being pedantic, I did NOT say that Sproty said that was what had happened in that case. I said "If you watch that video and say..."

You criticise me for claiming Sproty said something that he didn't strictly say. And your evidence for that comes from you reading something into my post that I didn't strictly say!

If Sproty wasn't suggesting that the lad was rolling on the floor fighting, then fine. I'm more than happy to accept that. But if that's the case, I've no idea why he raised the point about rolling on the floor fighting, in the middle of a post and a thread about a specific incident in which the lad who was hit was clearly NOT rolling on the floor fighting when he was hit. At the very least it's an odd non-sequitur.

[drfchound]

Let’s call it a draw then. 👍

[BillyStubbsTears]

Heh.

[scawsby steve]

Let me be the arbitrator here. I think Sproty was replying to those who stated that a police officer should NEVER strike someone on the head, and was suggesting a scenario where it might be unavoidable.

[drfchound]

Crikey Steve, I have just conceded a missable putt to BST so that we call it a draw.

[mrfrostsdad]

'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'

[Sprotyrover]

Sorry to cause all of the controversy,I was generalising,I did mention that you do not see what was happening prior to the blow being struck. I myself misread BST's reply to my post, And was a little surprised that he was critical but hey we are all Rovers aren't we?

[5 on Tour]

'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'

Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.

The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.

[DRFC_AjA]

'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'

Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.

The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.

But the general public would probably agree with your actions

[5 on Tour]

'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'

Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.

The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.

But the general public would probably agree with your actions

Of course they would but the police are the ones enforcing these rules so they should have to adhere to them as well.

[MachoMadness]

The general public would probably agree with the death penalty for cyclists, doesn't make them right.

[Glyn_Wigley]

'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'

Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.

The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.

And if the policeman thought the perpetrator was about to do the same to someone else as had just been done to him...what do you think is his first duty as you see it? Protect the next possible victim or worry about how hard he has to hit the perpetrator in order to stop him?

[ravenrover]

'Both Police officers and members of the public were subject to serious violence. The officer (in the video) required hospital treatment after which he was released, as was the male in the video.
I would suggest no-one draw any conclusions from the video circulating on social media'

Well if the policeman required treatment then he is more than justified to hit someone from behind in the skull with a weapon... this world has gone mad.

The build up may paint a different picture however it doesn’t justify these actions. If someone broke into your house and as they were leaving you picked up a bat and whacked them over the head with it I can guarantee you would be arrested for using excessive force.

Isn't it the case that as long is the person is flattened inside your house you are OK but if say he was climbing out of a wi ndow when you whscked him and fell outside you would be in trouble? Seem to remember a cade a few years back when that happened

[Bentley Bullet]

In that case, he would be deemed to be making an escape so you would not be acting in self-defence.

[IDM]

Unless any of us are serving police officers, or legal experts, then none of us will know what the law is, nor the “rules of engagement” under which the police operate.  Clearly it seems logical that hitting someone on the head could be unreasonable, and if this incident has gone beyond what is acceptable in legal terms then there should be repercussions.