NHS

[BillyStubbsTears]

And the day after a huge Tory win, another record has been broken. For the first time ever, every single A&E unit in the country has missed its waiting time targets. Nice one Tories, nice one...

Tell me how throwing another 100 million pounds or whatever sum you want the government to spend is going to cure waiting lists.
It’s so simple isn’t it. Come on tell me how it’s going to solve it.

We never had waiting time targets missed under a labour government did we. Never never never.

As I said. It’s never happened before. Ever. Never under Tory, Labour or Liberal governments. Until now. If you voted Tory you are part of the problem.

But there have been waiting time targets not met under Labour. Yes or No?

The NHS is a national problem. Not a Tory or Labour problem. There is no quick fix. If there was it would have been sorted by Labour between 1997 and 2010
What did labour do. Did they build new hospitals did they put a massive investment into the NHS? No they did not.

No the Labour Party masquerade as being the party of the people, the party of the working class & what a dreadful mess they have made of that.
Any way please tell me what being working class means or what being middle class means in 2019

I hate the class word because i don’t believe in it. What makes someone working class or middle class.
Where is the distinguishing line between the two.

So example. 40 year old man who’s father was a miner and he has a job as a senior manager in a middle size or large company. What class is he? Load of old 1970’s tosh. Please can we confine class to the history books where it belongs.
Blue collar or white collar are all workers are they not. It really is a load of garbage. Bin it where it belongs.

The Labour Party need to bin it or they are history. If they don’t appeal to a very wide range of income groups then they are never going to govern this country again.

Campsall.

I'm trying to keep out of this but that post cannot go unaddressed.

It's a fact that Labour massively increased spending on the NHS between 2001-2010. And that, as a proportion of GDP, it has stagnated under the Tories.

That's not a matter to debate. It's a fact.



What about waiting times?



Draw your own conclusions.

But let's draw our conclusions from facts in the future, eh? Not from wild and wrong assertions.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Better graph on long term NHS funding here.

https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/ukgs_line.php?title=Health%20Care&year=1980_2020&sname=United_Kingdom&units=d&bar=1&stack=1&size=m&spending0=626.78_640.41_639.78_611.17_619.55_625.55_640.04_647.84_666.91_683.13_685.50_720.22_785.53_855.09_887.30_942.73_889.15_900.35_918.77_978.88_1022.06_1100.18_1178.28_1265.87_1390.35_1494.64_1553.33_1592.68_1655.32_1970.65_2072.06_2067.52_2051.39_2048.58_2078.10_2109.08_2143.91_2145.23_2160.35_2189.72_2262.05&legend=Health%20Care-total&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_e_g

It's generally accepted that, to keep track with new treatments and an aging population, spending per person has to grow year on year in any health service

Even under Thatcher and Major, NHS funding in teased by 50% over 15 years. Under Labour it more than doubled over 13 years.

Under this lot? Barely a blip in a decade.

I appreciate your right to have a different decision than me over which party to support. But when your understanding of easily checkable facts is so wildly wrong, that's troubling for democracy.

[Bentley Bullet]

That the party who’ve continually reduced funding for the NHS have suddenly convinced people that they’re the party to make it work! BB, the Tories have never, ever considered the NHS as anything other than a drain of the countries resources. Do the latest A&E figures mean nothing?

That the party who’ve continually reduced funding for the NHS have suddenly convinced people that they’re the party to make it work! BB, the Tories have never, ever considered the NHS as anything other than a drain of the countries resources. Do the latest A&E figures mean nothing?

Herbert, you seem to think that all Tory voters don't care about the NHS, and only care for themselves. That's about as daft as Remoaners who claimed all leave voters were racists.

Many voters from all over the country changed alliance from Labour to Tory in this election, many from the staunch left South Yorkshire area who were previously life-time Labour supporters. Do you really think they have all turned their backs on the NHS by voting Tory? People just don't change principals like that.

 Maybe they changed their vote because they believe Boris Johnson will end austerity and take us forward more than they believe in Corbyn's back to the 70's policies. Perhaps many voters want to forget those times.

[Herbert Anchovy]

That the party who’ve continually reduced funding for the NHS have suddenly convinced people that they’re the party to make it work! BB, the Tories have never, ever considered the NHS as anything other than a drain of the countries resources. Do the latest A&E figures mean nothing?

That the party who’ve continually reduced funding for the NHS have suddenly convinced people that they’re the party to make it work! BB, the Tories have never, ever considered the NHS as anything other than a drain of the countries resources. Do the latest A&E figures mean nothing?

Herbert, you seem to think that all Tory voters don't care about the NHS, and only care for themselves. That's about as daft as Remoaners who claimed all leave voters were racists.

Many voters from all over the country changed alliance from Labour to Tory in this election, many from the staunch left South Yorkshire area who were previously life-time Labour supporters. Do you really think they have all turned their backs on the NHS by voting Tory? People just don't change principals like that.

 Maybe they changed their vote because they believe Boris Johnson will end austerity and take us forward more than they believe in Corbyn's back to the 70's policies. Perhaps many voters want to forget those times.

BB

If people genuinely do care about the NHS why on earth vote for a party that consistently cuts funding for it? Will they miraculously begin to provide the funding it needs, as Labour did? Of course not! Based on the evidence and historical awareness, I’m amazed anyone still believes that the NHS is in safe hands. After 9 years of Tory rule we now have the worst A&E waiting times ever! What more do you need to happen to convince you?

[Bentley Bullet]

Herbert, Jeremy Corbyn would have NEVER convinced me to vote for him. If it was a  choice of Tory or Labour I would have voted Tory.

It seems I'm in the majority.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Herbert, Jeremy Corbyn would have NEVER convinced me to vote for him. If it was a  choice of Tory or Labour I would have voted Tory.

It seems I'm in the majority.

Many people thought the same BB. It seems that people are willing to sacrifice things such as the NHS to ‘get Brexit done’. Which is tragic, but those who’ve voted Tory in labour heartlands are going to have to reap what they sow unfortunately

[Bentley Bullet]

By 'they' I assume you mean 'we'?  If that's the case you're assuming what we reap will be unfortunate for us. Maybe we might be fortunate and reap more than we would have under Labour?

[Campsall rover]

Herbert, Jeremy Corbyn would have NEVER convinced me to vote for him. If it was a  choice of Tory or Labour I would have voted Tory.

It seems I'm in the majority.

Many people thought the same BB. It seems that people are willing to sacrifice things such as the NHS to ‘get Brexit done’. Which is tragic, but those who’ve voted Tory in labour heartlands are going to have to reap what they sow unfortunately

Why are you so bitter Herbert. Why are you convinced Boris will not invest in the NHS when he has already said what is planned.
I think you are deluded if you think all these voters that put a tick in the Conservative candidate box don’t care about the NHS.
I care very much about it & so do probably at least 99% of the population.

There is a reason why People didn’t vote Labour, you really do need to try & understand that and accept it.

[Not Now Kato]

And the day after a huge Tory win, another record has been broken. For the first time ever, every single A&E unit in the country has missed its waiting time targets. Nice one Tories, nice one...

Tell me how throwing another 100 million pounds or whatever sum you want the government to spend is going to cure waiting lists.
It’s so simple isn’t it. Come on tell me how it’s going to solve it.

We never had waiting time targets missed under a labour government did we. Never never never.

OK Campsall, we know it's failing as it is, so how do YOU suggest it gets fixed?

Thought I was the one who asked the question. Strange isn’t it i have not received an answer.

Putting more money into he NHS would pay for more equipment, more facilities, more doctors, more nurses and more hospitals, (look how many local hospitals the Tories closed to 'centralise' and 'save money').
 
OK I've answered your question, now you answer mine!

Boris Has said 6 new hospitals to be built immediately and a total of 40 over the next few years.
That’s a massive investment in the NHS.
Did Labour do that? Think we know the answer to that one.

The point is if we don’t have a strong economy nothing will get done will it. The electorate certainly didn’t trust Labour with that task did they. Seen the shambles they leave the country in after each of their terms.

Immediately?  I don't think so. To be delivered by 2025.
 
A further 21 have to produce a business case with a view to delivering between 2025 and 2030 SUBJECT TO APPROVAL 
 
The remainder will be subject to a bidding process, (yet to be defined), but may involve the development of more than one hospital site, (whatever that ultimately means).
 
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-hospital-building-programme-announced
 
https://fullfact.org/health/six-hospitals-not-forty/
 
I suppose it is a step in the right direction by a government that systematically closed hospitals and centralised services, (including A&E), to save money! Pity they closed and centralised so many in the first place. 
 
Just like they're going to employ more police officers to replace the ones they systematically cut - it's worrying to see how people can be so easily seduced by single sound-bites without looking into the details.  Get Brexit Done anyone?
 

[drfchound]

I actually said “it could be said that it might come from a similar place to where Labour were going to find it” and I never mentioned BB.

Facts sir, get them right.

so that's where taxing the rich and closing tax loopholes for business enters the frame hound

Sydney, once more, “MIGHT come from a SIMILAR place”.

Not necessarily what you are implying what I said.

[SydneyRover]

It will take most of this governments term to get the NHS back to what is was when they first came to office 9 long years ago and they will have to borrow heavily or cut services in other areas to do it, I hope I'm wrong I hope johnson keeps his promises. History would tell anyone this won't happen but I will be pleasently surprised.

johnson gets bored easily and struggles with detail as shown throughout his public career so it will be most likely be left for someone else to deal with, brexit like it or not will leave the UK short of funds it badly needs and if he wants a tariff free trade deal with the EU he will have to pay for it with concessions to EU demands he will not have a choice.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Herbert, Jeremy Corbyn would have NEVER convinced me to vote for him. If it was a  choice of Tory or Labour I would have voted Tory.

It seems I'm in the majority.

Many people thought the same BB. It seems that people are willing to sacrifice things such as the NHS to ‘get Brexit done’. Which is tragic, but those who’ve voted Tory in labour heartlands are going to have to reap what they sow unfortunately

Why are you so bitter Herbert. Why are you convinced Boris will not invest in the NHS when he has already said what is planned.
I think you are deluded if you think all these voters that put a tick in the Conservative candidate box don’t care about the NHS.
I care very much about it & so do probably at least 99% of the population.

There is a reason why People didn’t vote Labour, you really do need to try & understand that and accept it.

Campsall, as I’ve said on numerous threads the primary reason Labour lost is Labour themselves. However, it infuriates me that people have voted a PM who’s a proven liar and seem quite comfortable with that. Why should we believe Johnson?

I’m still waiting for the invasion of Turks that he said was going to happen if we remained in the EU. He claimed he’d build 40 new hospitals when in actual fact he’s building 6 new hospitals.  He claimed Labour would increase corporation tax to the highest rate in Europe. In fact it would be below 6 other countries. He claimed he’d recruit 50,000 new nurses when in fact this includes nurses already in nursing positions!

I say it again, for the first time ever after 9 years of Tory Goverment all A&E depts have missed their targets and we’ve fallen into the trap yet again of giving them power again!

If you and others are willing to blindly believe him, despite the evidence, then that’s up to you.

[Bentley Bullet]

Maybe those who voted for Boris prefered a liar to someone who they think is a threat to national security and has previous dodgy associations with terrorists?

[Herbert Anchovy]

Maybe those who voted for Boris prefered a liar to someone who they think is a threat to national security and has previous dodgy associations with terrorists?

Maybe your right. Just a shame that Boris refused to release the report on Russian interference within UK politics before the election. You’d think he had something to hide. And people thought Corbyn was a risk to national security?

[DonnyOsmond]

Maybe those who voted for Boris prefered a liar to someone who they think is a threat to national security and has previous dodgy associations with terrorists?

This is brilliant. The US has considered whether Boris has been compromised, having been spotted with convicted Russian spies and assumed Russian spies. Boris is the one who wasn't trusted with state secrets by his predecessor.

[SydneyRover]

I wonder when the government will show the kids the report about the russians and the tories?

[Not Now Kato]

One Nation Conservatism in practice: -
 
https://inews.co.uk/news/nhs-patient-data-google-privacy-634080

[ravenrover]

My old Maths teacher once wrote in my school report, "must try harder, has difficulties" could that be applied to Hancocks grasp of mathematics when discussing the number of nurse they intend to recruit?

[albie]

For your consideration, one and all:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/tories-target-northern-voters-nhs-message-all-about-blaming-migrants/

Join the dots and the message will appear.

[SydneyRover]

For your consideration, one and all:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/tories-target-northern-voters-nhs-message-all-about-blaming-migrants/

Join the dots and the message will appear.

Yep the yellow press sends out the messages drip drip drip to blame those on welfare and immirants for all your troubles and the government reinforces it at election time knowing that the sun and the mail have done all the groundwork.

[SydneyRover]

There you go, easy fixed 

''Matt Hancock signals A&E waiting targets likely to be scrapped
Health secretary defends NHS’s performance and says targets should be ‘clinically appropriate’

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/15/matt-hancock-accident-emergency-nhs-waiting-targets-likely-scrapped''

[albie]

Interesting graphic which showsthe proposed NHS spending in a historical context;
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOUJJZhW4AEbzPM.jpg

Clear as a bell I would say.
The Tory budget increase is way below the level of spending under Labour governments.
It is also below the long term average across all administrations, and is a partial restoration of budgets lost during austerity.

Those reductions under austerity have a continuing cumulative impact on the service, and so have to be fully restored over a number of years to get back to 2010 levels of investment.

Anyone who can't see this is not really looking, are they?

[SydneyRover]

The sad fact shocking as it is. no one is surprised Albie

[Sprotyrover]

The sad fact shocking as it is. no one is surprised Albie

Set a target that an never be achieved, sounds like Blairite garbage, good riddance.

[SydneyRover]

Can't do the job, move the goalposts, sounds like smoke and mirrors sprot 

[BillyStubbsTears]

The sad fact shocking as it is. no one is surprised Albie

Set a target that an never be achieved, sounds like Blairite garbage, good riddance.

Yet another post that is depressingly ignorant of the facts.

Pretty much every first world country spends more of their GDP on health care than we do.

Why on earth should it be impossible for us to spend more? Why are we so different?

[BillyStubbsTears]

PS.

Here's what has happened to A&E waiting times during a decade of chronic underinvestment in the NHS by the Tories.


Here's what they plan to do about it...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/matt-hancock-nhs-waiting-targets-problem_uk_5e1ee23dc5b674e44b900824/

It's to be hoped you don't catch a soft bit in a zip Sproty. By the time you got seen, it'd have dropped off.

[Ldr]

Bad example BST, that should go to a walk in centre, not a and e1

[BillyStubbsTears]

You mean a crawl-in centre?

[Ldr]

Well I doubt much walking would go on 😉. Does highlight a point, how to stop the masses of unnecessary a and e attendances?