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I am astonished that anyone is surprised that politicians (of all parties) don't tell the truth or give straight answers to questions.As for infighting, well that has always been the case hasn't it?
It has often been said over the years that we follow trends set in the USA. I worry that the Trump new normality of saying what you like and never mind if it is true or not, combined with calling anything critical 'fake news' is gaining a foothold over here.
The Point: This is the new reality in our politics, a reality ushered in by Trump's 2016 victory. Facts are fungible -- and subject to the partisan lens through which you see the world. No matter which lens that is, a world without agreed-upon facts should terrify you.
Yeah but who reads those web sites?
And in the meantime, THIS is where we’re heading http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/12/politics/partisanship-alabama/index.htmlFinal paragraph:QuoteThe Point: This is the new reality in our politics, a reality ushered in by Trump's 2016 victory. Facts are fungible -- and subject to the partisan lens through which you see the world. No matter which lens that is, a world without agreed-upon facts should terrify you.
Quote from: hoolahoop on December 12, 2017, 09:29:18 amThere is a huge imbalance between young and old in Parliament . It needs addressing fast as decisions can't always be made by the old for the young- there is a disconnect and a misunderstanding of youth cultures, needs etc.Personally it's time that we limited the years spent in Parliament by individuals ......i.e. 30/40 + years is far too long to ' nurse ' the politics of yesteryear and impede the policies required for the ever-evolving needs of the here and now and of course plan for the future. Yes by all means learn from yesterday but to still live there is a crime in politics and that has brought us into this mess. A group of 60 + year old men have been nursing an ideology that simply held us back in Europe . Rather than shape it they continuously fought against it . The rest will be the future history written about the downfall of the UK brought about by these old , grey men in suits. Those who who fo years plotted and eventually destroyed the futures of generations to come . Thats why I hope ultimately that PR will be realised to be the way to go electorallyI used to laugh at the Libs and others weeping because they wanted PR - and I used to think "hah that's cos you cant win - bad losers"However I can say when I became more aware I could see exactly what they want(ed) and they could count on my vote if anyone has the b***s to call it. More people especially the younger voters may actually vote in greater numbers rather than thinking (for example) that the Tories will win the Constituency in which they are to vote by 10,000 so there is no point voting.They could in future vote for the Green Party or Lib Dems and really affect the outcomes of Elections and ultimately the Country they get to live in
There is a huge imbalance between young and old in Parliament . It needs addressing fast as decisions can't always be made by the old for the young- there is a disconnect and a misunderstanding of youth cultures, needs etc.Personally it's time that we limited the years spent in Parliament by individuals ......i.e. 30/40 + years is far too long to ' nurse ' the politics of yesteryear and impede the policies required for the ever-evolving needs of the here and now and of course plan for the future. Yes by all means learn from yesterday but to still live there is a crime in politics and that has brought us into this mess. A group of 60 + year old men have been nursing an ideology that simply held us back in Europe . Rather than shape it they continuously fought against it . The rest will be the future history written about the downfall of the UK brought about by these old , grey men in suits. Those who who fo years plotted and eventually destroyed the futures of generations to come .
Aye but this pollster had Remain to win by 7 points and the Tories to win the last election too.
Ah. Laziness on my part, I'd just read that 'fact' in a reply to a tweet with that link in this morning.
What the hell more does anyone need to know about Wrexit to know that it is going to be very very bad for the majority of British people and mainly those in areas of low economic growth and low socioeconomic circumstances.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.html
Quote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 06:19:12 amWhat the hell more does anyone need to know about Wrexit to know that it is going to be very very bad for the majority of British people and mainly those in areas of low economic growth and low socioeconomic circumstances.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.htmlLeavers basically don't care even if their own jobs are on the line .....which it is .
Quote from: hoolahoop on December 21, 2017, 10:07:44 amQuote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 06:19:12 amWhat the hell more does anyone need to know about Wrexit to know that it is going to be very very bad for the majority of British people and mainly those in areas of low economic growth and low socioeconomic circumstances.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.htmlLeavers basically don't care even if their own jobs are on the line .....which it is .Maybe they don't Hoola, but if they have any humanity thet should care about the circumstances of others.
Well this has absolutely be the final straw:http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/uk-wine-prices-rise-brexit-latest-updates-drinknig-alcohol-eu-withdrawal-a8122216.html
Quote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 08:35:14 pmQuote from: hoolahoop on December 21, 2017, 10:07:44 amQuote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 06:19:12 amWhat the hell more does anyone need to know about Wrexit to know that it is going to be very very bad for the majority of British people and mainly those in areas of low economic growth and low socioeconomic circumstances.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.htmlLeavers basically don't care even if their own jobs are on the line .....which it is .Maybe they don't Hoola, but if they have any humanity thet should care about the circumstances of others.Shall we remind ourselves of this survey. 61% of Leave voters dont care if Brexit leads to serious economic damage and 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 are willing to see a family member loose their job for Brexit to go ahead.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-leave-voters-uk-economy-damage-yougov-older-pensioners-losing-jobs-income-taxes-a7870871.html
Quote from: wilts rover on December 21, 2017, 09:50:10 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 08:35:14 pmQuote from: hoolahoop on December 21, 2017, 10:07:44 amQuote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 06:19:12 amWhat the hell more does anyone need to know about Wrexit to know that it is going to be very very bad for the majority of British people and mainly those in areas of low economic growth and low socioeconomic circumstances.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.htmlNot sure I.dler, to me they are pretty repugnant views.Leavers basically don't care even if their own jobs are on the line .....which it is .Maybe they don't Hoola, but if they have any humanity thet should care about the circumstances of others.Shall we remind ourselves of this survey. 61% of Leave voters dont care if Brexit leads to serious economic damage and 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 are willing to see a family member loose their job for Brexit to go ahead.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-leave-voters-uk-economy-damage-yougov-older-pensioners-losing-jobs-income-taxes-a7870871.htmlI don't know of any leavers that share these views, so are the leavers I know not typical leavers or is the poll not a true reflection?
Quote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 08:35:14 pmQuote from: hoolahoop on December 21, 2017, 10:07:44 amQuote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 06:19:12 amWhat the hell more does anyone need to know about Wrexit to know that it is going to be very very bad for the majority of British people and mainly those in areas of low economic growth and low socioeconomic circumstances.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.htmlNot sure I.dler, to me they are pretty repugnant views.Leavers basically don't care even if their own jobs are on the line .....which it is .Maybe they don't Hoola, but if they have any humanity thet should care about the circumstances of others.Shall we remind ourselves of this survey. 61% of Leave voters dont care if Brexit leads to serious economic damage and 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 are willing to see a family member loose their job for Brexit to go ahead.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-leave-voters-uk-economy-damage-yougov-older-pensioners-losing-jobs-income-taxes-a7870871.html
Quote from: hoolahoop on December 21, 2017, 10:07:44 amQuote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 06:19:12 amWhat the hell more does anyone need to know about Wrexit to know that it is going to be very very bad for the majority of British people and mainly those in areas of low economic growth and low socioeconomic circumstances.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.htmlNot sure I.dler, to me they are pretty repugnant views.Leavers basically don't care even if their own jobs are on the line .....which it is .Maybe they don't Hoola, but if they have any humanity thet should care about the circumstances of others.
Quote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 06:19:12 amWhat the hell more does anyone need to know about Wrexit to know that it is going to be very very bad for the majority of British people and mainly those in areas of low economic growth and low socioeconomic circumstances.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.htmlNot sure I.dler, to me they are pretty repugnant views.Leavers basically don't care even if their own jobs are on the line .....which it is .
Quote from: idler on December 21, 2017, 09:55:50 pmQuote from: wilts rover on December 21, 2017, 09:50:10 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 08:35:14 pmQuote from: hoolahoop on December 21, 2017, 10:07:44 amQuote from: SydneyRover on December 21, 2017, 06:19:12 amWhat the hell more does anyone need to know about Wrexit to know that it is going to be very very bad for the majority of British people and mainly those in areas of low economic growth and low socioeconomic circumstances.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-christine-lagarde-brexit-uk-economy-assessment-forecasts-eu-referendum-forecasts-a8119886.htmlNot sure I.dler, to me they are pretty repugnant views.Leavers basically don't care even if their own jobs are on the line .....which it is .Maybe they don't Hoola, but if they have any humanity thet should care about the circumstances of others.Shall we remind ourselves of this survey. 61% of Leave voters dont care if Brexit leads to serious economic damage and 50% of Leave voters aged over 65 are willing to see a family member loose their job for Brexit to go ahead.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-leave-voters-uk-economy-damage-yougov-older-pensioners-losing-jobs-income-taxes-a7870871.htmlI don't know of any leavers that share these views, so are the leavers I know not typical leavers or is the poll not a true reflection?Not sure Idler, to me they are pretty repugnant views.